.... “I wish I’d spent more time in Microsoft Office”.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

>... “I wish I’d spent more time in Microsoft Office”.

M$ Office is the epitome of what's wrong with commercial software.
Even as a Winblows fanboy I didn't like Office. I liked their OS,
naively enough, but OO/LO spoke my language, even before I really took
Linux seriously.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 12/31/2024 9:34 PM, Joel wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>> ... “I wish I’d spent more time in Microsoft Office”.
>
>
> M$ Office is the epitome of what's wrong with commercial software.
> Even as a Winblows fanboy I didn't like Office. I liked their OS,
> naively enough, but OO/LO spoke my language, even before I really took
> Linux seriously.

Fact is, you don't know what you're talking about re: office software in
general and MS Office in particular. You didn't 12 years ago when you
made truly lame arguments, and you don't today.

If you actually knew what you were talking about, you'd know LibreOffice
is the huge memory sucking bloatware. Plus it's slow (at least on
Windows). Plus LO Basic is pure crap. Plus LO Base is a sad joke. Plus
the form and report designers are bogus. Plus LO has no email
component. Plus the documentation is crap.

If the devs had any shame they would walk away from that suckware, like
you and everyone else should - and would if it weren't free.

On 2025-01-04 10:47, DFS wrote:
> On 12/31/2024 9:34 PM, Joel wrote:
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> ... “I wish I’d spent more time in Microsoft Office”.
>>
>>
>> M$ Office is the epitome of what's wrong with commercial software.
>> Even as a Winblows fanboy I didn't like Office.  I liked their OS,
>> naively enough, but OO/LO spoke my language, even before I really took
>> Linux seriously.
>
>
> Fact is, you don't know what you're talking about re: office software in
> general and MS Office in particular.  You didn't 12 years ago when you
> made truly lame arguments, and you don't today.

What Joel is saying is that if he uses office, LibreOffice is more than
enough for him as it is for most users. The reality is that much in the
same way that Photoshop is not essential software, having Microsoft
Office is not essential to most people. If people want to use it, that's
fine. However, even the people who swear by it probably wouldn't
complain that LibreOffice is lacking anything that they need. Face it:
not everyone is as obsessed with Excel and Access as you are.

> If you actually knew what you were talking about, you'd know LibreOffice
> is the huge memory sucking bloatware.

Oh no! Whatever will those people with 16GB (or more) of RAM do? I used
it on a 2012 Mac Mini with 8GB perfectly and it ran well on the 2006 or
2007 laptop with 4GB of RAM I gave away to a co-worker without issue.

> Plus it's slow (at least on
> Windows).

It's ridiculously fast on Linux even without being pre-loaded the way
that Microsoft Office often is.

> Plus LO Basic is pure crap.

Why?

> Plus LO Base is a sad joke.

Why?

> Plus
> the form and report designers are bogus.

How?

> Plus LO has no email
> component.

Because if there's one thing that's sorely lacking in a Linux
environment, it's an e-mail client. Kmail, Thunderbird, Evolution
apparently won't do the job. Let me guess: they don't connect to your
beloved, proprietary Microsoft e-mail system. Is your e-mail address
stuck in the 1990s and inaccessible from the web?

> Plus the documentation is crap.

Why?

> If the devs had any shame they would walk away from that suckware, like
> you and everyone else should - and would if it weren't free.

I'm sure that the developers who produce good software that you didn't
have to pay for are crying that it doesn't compare to the expensive
software produced by Microsoft.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> wrote:
>On 12/31/2024 9:34 PM, Joel wrote:
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> ... “I wish I’d spent more time in Microsoft Office”.
>>
>> M$ Office is the epitome of what's wrong with commercial software.
>> Even as a Winblows fanboy I didn't like Office. I liked their OS,
>> naively enough, but OO/LO spoke my language, even before I really took
>> Linux seriously.
>
>Fact is, you don't know what you're talking about re: office software in
>general and MS Office in particular. You didn't 12 years ago when you
>made truly lame arguments, and you don't today.
>
>If you actually knew what you were talking about, you'd know LibreOffice
>is the huge memory sucking bloatware. Plus it's slow (at least on
>Windows). Plus LO Basic is pure crap. Plus LO Base is a sad joke. Plus
>the form and report designers are bogus. Plus LO has no email
>component. Plus the documentation is crap.
>
>If the devs had any shame they would walk away from that suckware, like
>you and everyone else should - and would if it weren't free.

Office is what people are used to. It wins on sheer numbers, and
validly on Wintendo features, if you demand that. LO and others do
well, though.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Joel wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

> DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> wrote:
>>On 12/31/2024 9:34 PM, Joel wrote:
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ... “I wish I’d spent more time in Microsoft Office”.
>>>
>>> M$ Office is the epitome of what's wrong with commercial software.
>>> Even as a Winblows fanboy I didn't like Office. I liked their OS,
>>> naively enough, but OO/LO spoke my language, even before I really took
>>> Linux seriously.
>>
>>Fact is, you don't know what you're talking about re: office software in
>>general and MS Office in particular. You didn't 12 years ago when you
>>made truly lame arguments, and you don't today.
>>
>>If you actually knew what you were talking about, you'd know LibreOffice
>>is the huge memory sucking bloatware. Plus it's slow (at least on
>>Windows). Plus LO Basic is pure crap. Plus LO Base is a sad joke. Plus
>>the form and report designers are bogus. Plus LO has no email
>>component. Plus the documentation is crap.
>>
>>If the devs had any shame they would walk away from that suckware, like
>>you and everyone else should - and would if it weren't free.

My gawd, the fact-free whining!

> Office is what people are used to. It wins on sheer numbers, and
> validly on Wintendo features, if you demand that. LO and others do
> well, though.

The irony is this: how much has DFS used LibreOffice in order to make all
the claims above?

https://www.reddit.com/r/libreoffice/comments/xvdy2b/can_libreoffice_replace_ms_office/?rdt=54075

--
<Knghtbrd> I can think of lots of people who need USER=ID10T someplace!

On 2025-01-06 07:40, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> Joel wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
>
>> DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> wrote:
>>> On 12/31/2024 9:34 PM, Joel wrote:
>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ... “I wish I’d spent more time in Microsoft Office”.
>>>>
>>>> M$ Office is the epitome of what's wrong with commercial software.
>>>> Even as a Winblows fanboy I didn't like Office. I liked their OS,
>>>> naively enough, but OO/LO spoke my language, even before I really took
>>>> Linux seriously.
>>>
>>> Fact is, you don't know what you're talking about re: office software in
>>> general and MS Office in particular. You didn't 12 years ago when you
>>> made truly lame arguments, and you don't today.
>>>
>>> If you actually knew what you were talking about, you'd know LibreOffice
>>> is the huge memory sucking bloatware. Plus it's slow (at least on
>>> Windows). Plus LO Basic is pure crap. Plus LO Base is a sad joke. Plus
>>> the form and report designers are bogus. Plus LO has no email
>>> component. Plus the documentation is crap.
>>>
>>> If the devs had any shame they would walk away from that suckware, like
>>> you and everyone else should - and would if it weren't free.
>
> My gawd, the fact-free whining!
>
>> Office is what people are used to. It wins on sheer numbers, and
>> validly on Wintendo features, if you demand that. LO and others do
>> well, though.
>
> The irony is this: how much has DFS used LibreOffice in order to make all
> the claims above?
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/libreoffice/comments/xvdy2b/can_libreoffice_replace_ms_office/?rdt=54075

I'm sure that there is a set of features from Microsoft Office that
LibreOffice still doesn't have. Nevertheless, most people either don't
know what they are because they never use them or simply don't need them.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 10:47:47 -0500, DFS wrote:

> Plus it's slow (at least on Windows).

Maybe the fault lies with Windows?

> Plus LO Basic is pure crap.

s/LO Basic/Basic/

> Plus LO Base is a sad joke.

It offers much more advanced DBMS functionality than Microsoft Access can
match.

> Plus the form and report designers are bogus.

What can Office do that they can’t?

> Plus LO has no email component.

Remember, Microsoft dates from the time when email was very much a vendor-
proprietary function. The idea of being able to send messages between
machines on different LANs was still new and exotic, or just plain fantasy
to some.

On 1/8/2025 4:39 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 10:47:47 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>> Plus it's slow (at least on Windows).
>
> Maybe the fault lies with Windows?

No doubt it's a conspiracy by Microsoft.

>> Plus LO Basic is pure crap.
>
> s/LO Basic/Basic/

VBA makes absolute mincement out of LO Basic. VBA is built for and
great for manipulating the Office environment and managing data.

>> Plus LO Base is a sad joke.
>
> It offers much more advanced DBMS functionality than Microsoft Access can
> match.

Prove this claim in detail, with screenshots and code as needed.

>> Plus the form and report designers are bogus.
>
> What can Office do that they can’t?

TONS^2, as I've explained here several times.

You and Joel should educate yourselves. LO is free, and MS Office Pro
(versions 2003-2024) can be bought very cheaply from eBay or
Gamers-Outlet or other sites, $10 to $50.

I'll give you a couple teasers (Office 2003):

* the Access form designer offers NINE types of autoforms/starters to
quickly give you a skeleton layout you can then customize

https://imgur.com/5zJKuWM

* the Access report designer lets you easily add standalone code or
existing macros to every section of the report (header, footer,
group/s, detail) or to the report object itself (which code fires
during report events activate/deactivate, open/close, error, Page,
NoData). I couldn't find a way to add LO Basic code to an LO report
at all.

The LO Base reporting functionality is buggy and weird and limited...
just FUBAR:

* create a report on a table, save the report, dbl-click to open it and
it shows the data as expected. It also says 'This document is open in
read-only mode.' and there's an 'Edit Document' button. Click that
button and it changes into a weird spreadsheet-like edit mode where
you can make changes to the labels and the data (insert rows, delete
rows, edit data), but those label changes aren't saved, and data
edits aren't propagated to the underlying table. I don't get it.

* LO Base report objects have 10 editable properties and settings. MS
Access report objects have 47.

* LO Base labels have 16 editable properties; Access report
labels have 32.

* LO Base data fields have 20 editable properties; Access report
data fields have 39.

https://imgur.com/a/6yaK2q3

* the LO Base report design ruler doesn't toggle on and off correctly.
If it's off it will turn on, but if it's on it won't turn off - until
you save and close/reopen the report in design mode. Somebody should
file a bug report so it will get fixed this decade.

There are many, many oddball bugs and weird behaviors in LO form and
report designers.

I once inherited a gnarly Access report and subreport combo, which the
original developer claimed couldn't be combined into one report object.
A few hours later I had it done, and he was "quite impressed".

MS Office is my man, and LO is my bitch.

Let the excuse-making begin. Bring Feeb in: that fraud loves to dismiss
LO's shortcomings vs Access.

>> Plus LO has no email component.
>
> Remember, Microsoft dates from the time when email was very much a vendor-
> proprietary function. The idea of being able to send messages between
> machines on different LANs was still new and exotic, or just plain fantasy
> to some.

huh? LibreOffice dates from before MS Office, to 1985 when it was
proprietary StarOffice, then FOSS OpenOffice in 2000, then FOSS
LibreOffice in 2011.

Face facts: MS is smarter than FOSS and works harder than FOSS.