Le 2024-12-17 à 19:37, DFS a écrit :
> On 12/17/2024 7:22 PM, Joel wrote:
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 08:13:29 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not all Windows updates require a restart; only the big ones do.
>>>
>>> Microsoft Office?
>>
>>
>> The way Winblows has to be rebooted for app installs and updates is
>> irritating.  It is the "Wintendo" phenomenon.  There would never be a
>> reason for it under Linux.
>
>
> Pure horseshit.  It's extremely rare for Windows application installs or
> updates to require a reboot.
>
> Let me know when you find ONE.

System components will demand a reboot but I have to admit that Office
2021 has not yet asked me to reboot. Actually, the only program that
asked for a reboot is my cloud provider and even then, it was
unnecessary. I imagine it simply wanted its background service to be
loaded at startup.

--
CrudeSausage

Le 2024-12-17 à 20:23, Joel a écrit :
> DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> wrote:
>> On 12/17/2024 7:22 PM, Joel wrote:
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 08:13:29 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Not all Windows updates require a restart; only the big ones do.
>>>>
>>>> Microsoft Office?
>>>
>>> The way Winblows has to be rebooted for app installs and updates is
>>> irritating. It is the "Wintendo" phenomenon. There would never be a
>>> reason for it under Linux.
>>
>> Pure horseshit. It's extremely rare for Windows application installs or
>> updates to require a reboot.
>>
>> Let me know when you find ONE.
>
>
> Many years ago, we had M$ Office 2K and I installed it fresh under our
> new Win2K system - no reboot required *initially*, *but* when getting
> updates beyond what was on the media, from the Net, *that* required a
> reboot.

Since you decided to complain about Windows _today_ by citing something
that happened in 1999, you've just permitted us "concern trolls" to
complain about Linux _today_ by highlighting its state in 1999.

Fucking Linux, it can't even detect my sound card! It requires me to set
the vertical and horizontal refresh rates of my monitor! It won't let me
use a resolution higher than 800x600! Fucking Linux!

--
CrudeSausage

On 2024-12-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> Le 2024-12-17 à 20:23, Joel a écrit :
>> DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> wrote:
>>> On 12/17/2024 7:22 PM, Joel wrote:
>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 08:13:29 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Not all Windows updates require a restart; only the big ones do.
>>>>>
>>>>> Microsoft Office?
>>>>
>>>> The way Winblows has to be rebooted for app installs and updates is
>>>> irritating. It is the "Wintendo" phenomenon. There would never be a
>>>> reason for it under Linux.
>>>
>>> Pure horseshit. It's extremely rare for Windows application installs or
>>> updates to require a reboot.
>>>
>>> Let me know when you find ONE.
>>
>>
>> Many years ago, we had M$ Office 2K and I installed it fresh under our
>> new Win2K system - no reboot required *initially*, *but* when getting
>> updates beyond what was on the media, from the Net, *that* required a
>> reboot.
>
> Since you decided to complain about Windows _today_ by citing something
> that happened in 1999, you've just permitted us "concern trolls" to
> complain about Linux _today_ by highlighting its state in 1999.
>
> Fucking Linux, it can't even detect my sound card! It requires me to set
> the vertical and horizontal refresh rates of my monitor! It won't let me
> use a resolution higher than 800x600! Fucking Linux!
>

I've been running Linux since 1997 and for me it has always worked fine.
Sure here have been bumps in the road, some minor and some serious
but overall I have been happy with Linux.
That being said, I have tried to introduce family members and friends to Linux
and it has been a 100% failure.
Mostly because they are so intertwined with Windows and are looking for 100%
copies of their favorite Windows applications.

As far as the topic of updates is concerned, Linux is generally better especially if
you ignore updates for a while.
Windows updates work best if you keep current and do not make custom alterations
to the registry to change performance etc.
Windows update can get lost in that case.
And don't even think of updating a system that hasn't been kept current.
Chances are it will be a nightmare.

Conclusion is I use and like Linux but Windows has come a long way and is certainly
a viable option, especially when it comes to commercial level applications and support.
For the record I know nothing about Macs.
I've never used one.

--
pothead

All about snit read below. Links courtesy of Ron:

Example of Snit trolling in real time:

<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.linux.advocacy/c/biFilzgCcVg/m/eUcNGw6lP7UJ>

All about the snit troll:

<https://web.archive.org/web/20181028000459/http://www.cosmicpenguin.com/snit.html>
<https://web.archive.org/web/20190529043314/http://cosmicpenguin.com/snitlist.html>
<https://web.archive.org/web/20190529062255/http://cosmicpenguin.com/snitLieMethods.html>

Le 2024-12-17 à 20:54, pothead a écrit :
> On 2024-12-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> Le 2024-12-17 à 20:23, Joel a écrit :
>>> DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> wrote:
>>>> On 12/17/2024 7:22 PM, Joel wrote:
>>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 08:13:29 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not all Windows updates require a restart; only the big ones do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Microsoft Office?
>>>>>
>>>>> The way Winblows has to be rebooted for app installs and updates is
>>>>> irritating. It is the "Wintendo" phenomenon. There would never be a
>>>>> reason for it under Linux.
>>>>
>>>> Pure horseshit. It's extremely rare for Windows application installs or
>>>> updates to require a reboot.
>>>>
>>>> Let me know when you find ONE.
>>>
>>>
>>> Many years ago, we had M$ Office 2K and I installed it fresh under our
>>> new Win2K system - no reboot required *initially*, *but* when getting
>>> updates beyond what was on the media, from the Net, *that* required a
>>> reboot.
>>
>> Since you decided to complain about Windows _today_ by citing something
>> that happened in 1999, you've just permitted us "concern trolls" to
>> complain about Linux _today_ by highlighting its state in 1999.
>>
>> Fucking Linux, it can't even detect my sound card! It requires me to set
>> the vertical and horizontal refresh rates of my monitor! It won't let me
>> use a resolution higher than 800x600! Fucking Linux!
>>
>
> I've been running Linux since 1997 and for me it has always worked fine.
> Sure here have been bumps in the road, some minor and some serious
> but overall I have been happy with Linux.
> That being said, I have tried to introduce family members and friends to Linux
> and it has been a 100% failure.
> Mostly because they are so intertwined with Windows and are looking for 100%
> copies of their favorite Windows applications.

I'm actually pretty successful with this. I ask them what their needs
are, what kind of interface they like and educate them about what Linux
is before installing the right distribution for them. You'd be surprised
how many people don't care that they don't have Windows as long as the
system works for what they need to do. I find that co-workers and family
members are a lot less critical of Linux than I am. I am always happy to
say that as much as Linux has failed on me, I'm still recommending it to
others.

> As far as the topic of updates is concerned, Linux is generally better especially if
> you ignore updates for a while.
> Windows updates work best if you keep current and do not make custom alterations
> to the registry to change performance etc.
> Windows update can get lost in that case.
> And don't even think of updating a system that hasn't been kept current.
> Chances are it will be a nightmare.

I have no choice but to admit to this. It's part of why I remind my wife
to update Windows regularly, even if she doesn't routinely use her
laptop. The task of fixing things always falls back to me.

> Conclusion is I use and like Linux but Windows has come a long way and is certainly
> a viable option, especially when it comes to commercial level applications and support.
> For the record I know nothing about Macs.
> I've never used one.

My first use of a Mac was around 1996 when I was in CÉGEP and learning
more about graphical design. That was Mac OS 7.x. Then, I didn't use one
much until I got an iBook G3 with Mac OS X.1.5 if and 9.2.2
preinstalled. OS X ran fine but 9.2.2 was a lot more fun to use because
of how responsive it was. Unfortunately, Apple had already decided not
to support it any longer and it was only installed to provide
compatibility for the new OS. Then I had a PowerBook G4 with Mac OS X
Jaguar, then an iMac G5. During that time, I bought a Windows laptop
loaded with XP and reverted back to the PC because I found XP so damned
snappy compared to OS X. I probably should have stayed with the Mac
looking back. Then, last year, I got a MacBook Air M1 while my laptop
was in the shop. I fell in love with the hardware and remembered why I
temporarily became an Apple zealot between 2003 and 2006 or so.

--
CrudeSausage

On Tue, 17 Dec 2024 19:37:42 -0500, DFS wrote:

> Pure horseshit. It's extremely rare for Windows application installs or
> updates to require a reboot.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/1276358/setup-
requires-the-computer-to-be-restarted-before

I guess it's my tough luck that the one Microsoft application I update
regularly usually requires rebooting.

CrudeSausage wrote:

>Le 2024-12-16 à 07:21, Chris Ahlstrom a écrit :
>>
>> Since I no longer expose my home machines on the network (I am home all
>> the time anyway, and access email and project code through other's servers),
>> I don't worry about rebooting, except to drop into Windows to test some
>> code.
>>
>> My biggest worry is about visiting battery-draining sites. Jesus!
>
>I'm surprised that you have that much time left over from being the
>neighbourhood cum dumpster.

Hahaaha

rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

> On Tue, 17 Dec 2024 19:37:42 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>> Pure horseshit. It's extremely rare for Windows application installs or
>> updates to require a reboot.

Haw haw haw. Tell another knee-slapper, Doof.

Every goddam update on my corporate laptop required one or more reboots.

About the most one could do was delay the reboot.

> https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/1276358/setup-
> requires-the-computer-to-be-restarted-before
>
> I guess it's my tough luck that the one Microsoft application I update
> regularly usually requires rebooting.

--
One organism, one vote.

On Tue, 17 Dec 2024 20:32:43 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:

> The only reason there is no reason to reboot after installing software
> in Linux is because the software is so bad, people refuse to install it.

Sour grapes, much?

On Tue, 17 Dec 2024 18:21:05 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:

> Le 2024-12-17 à 17:28, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
>> On Mon, 16 Dec 2024 10:38:19 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>> Le 2024-12-16 à 01:42, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 20:04:58 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Le 2024-12-15 à 17:28, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 08:53:32 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And yet people complain about broken Debian installs all the time
>>>>>>> anyway:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I speak from personal experience from successfully doing lots of
>>>>>> Debian installs, for myself and for paying customers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Meanwhile, I still don't believe you for many good reasons.
>>>>
>>>> Windows does that to you, doesn’t it: degrades your ability to
>>>> distinguish truth from fiction. Comes from believing too much
>>>> Microsoft propaganda.
>>>
>>> ... especially when relating NVIDIA GPUs ...
>>
>> Which you neglected to mention when claiming I was somehow not credible
>> about doing successful Debian installs.
>
> We were talking about updating, not installing.

Really? You said “installs” above.

On Tue, 17 Dec 2024 19:37:42 -0500, DFS wrote:

> Pure horseshit. It's extremely rare for Windows application installs or
> updates to require a reboot.

Games.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

> On Tue, 17 Dec 2024 20:32:43 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> The only reason there is no reason to reboot after installing software
>> in Linux is because the software is so bad, people refuse to install it.
>
> Sour grapes, much?

Crud is desperate for even this limited form of human interaction, so
he trolls. Stupid stuff that might have been true in the late 1990's.

These days? Linux and the software available for it are AWESOME.

--
I've looked at the listing, and it's right!
-- Joel Halpern

Le 2024-12-18 à 23:43, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
> On Tue, 17 Dec 2024 20:32:43 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> The only reason there is no reason to reboot after installing software
>> in Linux is because the software is so bad, people refuse to install it.
>
> Sour grapes, much?

It was funny.

--
CrudeSausage

Le 2024-12-19 à 02:14, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
> On Tue, 17 Dec 2024 18:21:05 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> Le 2024-12-17 à 17:28, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
>>> On Mon, 16 Dec 2024 10:38:19 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>
>>>> Le 2024-12-16 à 01:42, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 20:04:58 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Le 2024-12-15 à 17:28, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 08:53:32 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And yet people complain about broken Debian installs all the time
>>>>>>>> anyway:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I speak from personal experience from successfully doing lots of
>>>>>>> Debian installs, for myself and for paying customers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Meanwhile, I still don't believe you for many good reasons.
>>>>>
>>>>> Windows does that to you, doesn’t it: degrades your ability to
>>>>> distinguish truth from fiction. Comes from believing too much
>>>>> Microsoft propaganda.
>>>>
>>>> ... especially when relating NVIDIA GPUs ...
>>>
>>> Which you neglected to mention when claiming I was somehow not credible
>>> about doing successful Debian installs.
>>
>> We were talking about updating, not installing.
>
> Really? You said “installs” above.

Yep, installs = installed operating systems. Their _installs_ stopped
working correctly after routine updates.

--
CrudeSausage

Le 2024-12-19 à 02:14, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
> On Tue, 17 Dec 2024 19:37:42 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>> Pure horseshit. It's extremely rare for Windows application installs or
>> updates to require a reboot.
>
> Games.

Absolutely none of the games I've installed since I started using Steam
have required me to reboot my computer.

--
CrudeSausage

Le 2024-12-19 à 07:58, Chris Ahlstrom a écrit :
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
>
>> On Tue, 17 Dec 2024 20:32:43 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>> The only reason there is no reason to reboot after installing software
>>> in Linux is because the software is so bad, people refuse to install it.
>>
>> Sour grapes, much?
>
> Crud is desperate for even this limited form of human interaction, so
> he trolls. Stupid stuff that might have been true in the late 1990's.
>
> These days? Linux and the software available for it are AWESOME.

Heh, I like that first paragraph. I'm so desperate that I come here
rather than Reddit, Twitter or even Gab where any comment gets a couple
of hundred replies rather than two.

--
CrudeSausage

On 12/19/2024 7:58 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> These days? Linux and the software available for it are AWESOME.

Examples?

DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> wrote:
>On 12/19/2024 7:58 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>> These days? Linux and the software available for it are AWESOME.
>
>Examples?

I have the same system under Linux that I had under Win11, more or
less. Unlike Larry, I use a real environment.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Le 2024-12-19 à 11:25, DFS a écrit :
> On 12/19/2024 7:58 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>> These days? Linux and the software available for it are AWESOME.
>
> Examples?

I'll be the first to say that Betterbird is the best e-mail program I've
ever used, and LibreOffice is quite amazing for something that is
offered for free. Firefox is also a splendid free browser that doesn't
require you to submit to the security issue that is Chromium. KDE is
also a spectacular desktop environment. The problem is that this
software is not exclusive to Linux. Much like Microsoft is going to
learn by bringing games developed by their studios over to the
Playstation, you won't be able to sell your product in high numbers if
you don't offer any exclusive product to the clients who chose your
hardware over that of the competition.

At the same time, exclusivity is incompatible with the GPL.

--
CrudeSausage

Le 2024-12-19 à 11:50, Joel a écrit :
> DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> wrote:
>> On 12/19/2024 7:58 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>
>>> These days? Linux and the software available for it are AWESOME.
>>
>> Examples?
>
>
> I have the same system under Linux that I had under Win11, more or
> less. Unlike Larry, I use a real environment.

All the better if Linux fully supports the hardware you purchased.
Software-wise, I will admit that just about everything you would want to
do is possible under Linux, especially if you're not using your computer
as a work tool where full compatibility with Microsoft Office is
necessary, or where you absolutely need to edit images or videos with
tools like Photoshop or Premiere. It does do the job and rather well.
However, because it is always possible that Linux won't support your
hardware as well as Windows does, the smart thing to do is to buy a
computer from a manufacturer that exclusively sells Linux hardware like
System76 or ThinkPenguin. They won't sell you anything that doesn't work
perfectly under the alternative operating system, so going that route
makes a lot more sense than buying hardware from ASUS or HP and hoping
that Linux runs it properly. I actually wanted to do that at the time
that I bought this laptop, but no Linux manufacturer had a highly
portable laptop which offered ten hours of battery life yet also played
games.

--
CrudeSausage

Joel wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

> DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> wrote:
>>On 12/19/2024 7:58 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>
>>> These days? Linux and the software available for it are AWESOME.
>>
>>Examples?

I've already given examples, over and over and over.

> I have the same system under Linux that I had under Win11, more or
> less. Unlike Larry, I use a real environment.

On Windows, I would install a number of my favorite apps I used on Linux
(as long as not blacklisted by the Corporate Rules), plus apps needed for work
that the Corporation did not supply.

- VLC
- GIMP
- ImageMagick
- Git Bash
- Python and Java
- vim and gvim
- Doxygen (needed for generating documentation)
- Graphviz (ditto)
- Evince (only used Adobe for signing documents)
- Qtcreator and Mingw
- Dia
- Etherape, nmap, and wireshark (all later put on the blacklist)
- VirtualBox
- Firefox, Chrome, and/or Chromium

There are other apps I use on Linux that I would have preferred to the
alternatives on Windows, but they aren't built for Windows.

--
A pessimist is a man who has been compelled to live with an optimist.
-- Elbert Hubbard

CrudeSausage wrote:

>The problem is that this software is not exclusive to Linux.

Yes, you've been telling that for years, "Hadron".

--
"Until Linux has a REASON for people to dump Windows they won't" -
"True Linux advocate" Hadron Quark

Le 2024-12-19 à 14:53, chrisv a écrit :
> CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> The problem is that this software is not exclusive to Linux.
>
> Yes, you've been telling that for years, "Hadron".

I'm pretty sure you called me Hadron before.

--
CrudeSausage

Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

>> some dumb fsck wrote:
>>
>>> Pure horseshit. It's extremely rare for Windows application installs or
>>> updates to require a reboot.
>
>Haw haw haw. Tell another knee-slapper, Doof.
>
>Every goddam update on my corporate laptop required one or more reboots.
>
>About the most one could do was delay the reboot.

It's extremely rare for Wintrolls to tell the truth.

--
'Elsewhere in this thread Snit had to actually explain to TomB WHY
having "." on your path (especially as root of course) is dangerous.'
- Hadron Quark, lying shamelessly

Le 2024-12-19 à 19:37, chrisv a écrit :
> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>>> some dumb fsck wrote:
>>>
>>>> Pure horseshit. It's extremely rare for Windows application installs or
>>>> updates to require a reboot.
>>
>> Haw haw haw. Tell another knee-slapper, Doof.
>>
>> Every goddam update on my corporate laptop required one or more reboots.
>>
>> About the most one could do was delay the reboot.
>
> It's extremely rare for Wintrolls to tell the truth.

Yeah, it would be ridiculous to claim that Windows updates don't require
reboots. A lot of them don't, but the majority do. Applications tend not
to require a reboot though.

--
CrudeSausage

On 2024-12-20, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> Le 2024-12-19 à 19:37, chrisv a écrit :
>> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>
>>>> some dumb fsck wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Pure horseshit. It's extremely rare for Windows application installs or
>>>>> updates to require a reboot.
>>>
>>> Haw haw haw. Tell another knee-slapper, Doof.
>>>
>>> Every goddam update on my corporate laptop required one or more reboots.
>>>
>>> About the most one could do was delay the reboot.
>>
>> It's extremely rare for Wintrolls to tell the truth.
>
> Yeah, it would be ridiculous to claim that Windows updates don't require
> reboots. A lot of them don't, but the majority do. Applications tend not
> to require a reboot though.
>
Most large updates do require a reboot.
I've been using Linux since 1997 and sure I have had some issues but in general they
get resolved quickly and tend to be minor like tossing an error message when starting a program
but the program functions fine after that.
Nothing is perfect.

From my personal experience Windows updates work rather well assuming the user is relatively
current on the latest or close to the latest updates.
Not updating for a year or so and expecting Windows to sort things out for a major update is
an exercise in potential failure.
The other issue I have run across is when people tweak the registry following instructions on the web.
So things like make popups quicker, disk quota and stuff like that tends to toss Windows updates
a curve ball.
Most times it works, but sometimes it gets confused.

Overall though, Linux wins the update contest.
Fast, efficient, all applications are updated and it generally works fine.
Windows can work fine assuming the system has been kept updated.
Fall behind and you are asking for trouble.

--
pothead

All about snit read below. Links courtesy of Ron:

Example of Snit trolling in real time:

<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.linux.advocacy/c/biFilzgCcVg/m/eUcNGw6lP7UJ>

All about the snit troll:

<https://web.archive.org/web/20181028000459/http://www.cosmicpenguin.com/snit.html>
<https://web.archive.org/web/20190529043314/http://cosmicpenguin.com/snitlist.html>
<https://web.archive.org/web/20190529062255/http://cosmicpenguin.com/snitLieMethods.html>