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comp / comp.os.linux.advocacy / Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?

Subject: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
From: Farley Flud
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.misc
Followup: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Organization: UsenetExpress - www.usenetexpress.com
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 19:48 UTC

From: ff@linux.rocks (Farley Flud)
Subject: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
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I hear a lot about the virtues of OpenZFS, which is available
for GNU/Linux albeit, due to license concerns, only in a roundabout
way. A separate external module must be compiled and then added
to the kernel.

Since my programming predilection is HPC/scientific/engineering,
I know little about disk I/O concepts. So answer these questions
if you are able.

Is OpenZFS suitable/recommended for a desktop workstation?

What are the benefits of OpenZFS compared to EXT4?

Is OpenZFS stable enough to be trusted?

I will appreciate all responses.

--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
From: Phillip
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 20:12 UTC
References: 1

Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nntp@fulltermprivacy.com (Phillip)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 15:12:53 -0500
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On 1/10/25 2:48 PM, Farley Flud wrote:
> I hear a lot about the virtues of OpenZFS, which is available
> for GNU/Linux albeit, due to license concerns, only in a roundabout
> way. A separate external module must be compiled and then added
> to the kernel.
>
> Since my programming predilection is HPC/scientific/engineering,
> I know little about disk I/O concepts. So answer these questions
> if you are able.
>
> Is OpenZFS suitable/recommended for a desktop workstation?
>
> What are the benefits of OpenZFS compared to EXT4?
>
> Is OpenZFS stable enough to be trusted?
>
> I will appreciate all responses.
>
>

What's your use case for switching away from EXT4 to OpenZFS?

--
Phillip Frabott
----------
- Adam: Is a void really a void if it returns?
- Jack: No, it's just nullspace at that point.
----------

Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
From: Farley Flud
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.misc
Followup: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Organization: UsenetExpress - www.usenetexpress.com
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 20:25 UTC
References: 1 2

From: ff@linux.rocks (Farley Flud)
Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc
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On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 15:12:53 -0500, Phillip wrote:

>
> What's your use case for switching away from EXT4 to OpenZFS?
>

I have no "use case." I just want to know if OpenZFS would
be a better choice for a desktop workstation than EXT4.

--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
From: Phillip
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 20:37 UTC
References: 1 2 3

Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nntp@fulltermprivacy.com (Phillip)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 15:37:17 -0500
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On 1/10/25 3:25 PM, Farley Flud wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 15:12:53 -0500, Phillip wrote:
>
>>
>> What's your use case for switching away from EXT4 to OpenZFS?
>>
>
> I have no "use case." I just want to know if OpenZFS would
> be a better choice for a desktop workstation than EXT4.
>
>
>
>
>

Probably not without having specific requirements that leverage the ZFS
file system. For example, I use it on a small server to handle RAID1+5
for a business with 10 employees. At home I have no need for that so
EXT4 is the better option for my needs at home.

--
Phillip Frabott
----------
- Adam: Is a void really a void if it returns?
- Jack: No, it's just nullspace at that point.
----------

From: ff@linux.rocks (Farley Flud)
Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc
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On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 15:37:17 -0500, Phillip wrote:

>
> Probably not without having specific requirements that leverage the ZFS
> file system. For example, I use it on a small server to handle RAID1+5
> for a business with 10 employees. At home I have no need for that so
> EXT4 is the better option for my needs at home.
>

OK. Thanks.

I was just curious but I'll stick with EXT4.

--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
From: Lawrence D'Oliv
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 22:15 UTC
References: 1 2

Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ldo@nz.invalid (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 22:15:41 -0000 (UTC)
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On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 15:12:53 -0500, Phillip wrote:

> What's your use case for switching away from EXT4 to OpenZFS?

ZFS is to filesystems what Java is to programming languages. It will
happily chew up all the RAM on your system, given the chance.

If you do have a use case for it, it is best to run it on a dedicated
filesystem appliance, away from any machine you want for general usage.

Also, this
<https://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=189711&curpostid=189959>.

Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
From: Grant Taylor
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Organization: TNet Consulting
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 23:55 UTC
References: 1

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From: gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 17:55:07 -0600
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On 1/10/25 13:48, Farley Flud wrote:
> I hear a lot about the virtues of OpenZFS, which is available for
> GNU/Linux albeit, due to license concerns, only in a roundabout way.

I'm fairly certain that FreeBSD has also been using OpenZFS for the last
3-8 years.

> A separate external module must be compiled and then added to the
> kernel.

I believe I've seen directions on how to integrate that external module
into a kernel that doesn't support modules. Some sort of way to graft
it into the kernel tree so you don't need modules. I think.

> Since my programming predilection is HPC/scientific/engineering,
> I know little about disk I/O concepts. So answer these questions if
> you are able.
>
> Is OpenZFS suitable/recommended for a desktop workstation?

I see no reason to not use (Open)ZFS on a desktop workstation.

> What are the benefits of OpenZFS compared to EXT4?

I think that (Open)ZFS's flexibility and capabilities put it in a
completely different (IMHO better) class than Ext4.

- snapshots
- clones
- send & receive
- RAID like capabilities
- (logical) volume management
- data protection in addition to metadata.

> Is OpenZFS stable enough to be trusted?

I've been using (Open)ZFS to manage millions of files for more than 10
years. I'm very happy with it.

> I will appreciate all responses.

The only thing that I will say is that (Open)ZFS is not as fast as a raw
file system like Ext4. But I believe that the minor performance penalty
is well worth it for snapshots and send & receive.

--
Grant. . . .

Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
From: Lawrence D'Oliv
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2025 02:30 UTC
References: 1 2

Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ldo@nz.invalid (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2025 02:30:04 -0000 (UTC)
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On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 17:55:07 -0600, Grant Taylor wrote:

>> Is OpenZFS stable enough to be trusted?
>
> I've been using (Open)ZFS to manage millions of files for more than 10
> years. I'm very happy with it.

Interesting, though, that Oracle itself cannot (will not?) supply ZFS with
its own Linux distro, preferring you use BTRFS instead.

Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
From: 186282@ud0s4.net
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Organization: wokiesux
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2025 05:30 UTC
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On 1/10/25 4:00 PM, Farley Flud wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 15:37:17 -0500, Phillip wrote:
>
>>
>> Probably not without having specific requirements that leverage the ZFS
>> file system. For example, I use it on a small server to handle RAID1+5
>> for a business with 10 employees. At home I have no need for that so
>> EXT4 is the better option for my needs at home.
>>
>
> OK. Thanks.
>
> I was just curious but I'll stick with EXT4.

Hard to go wrong with EXT4, esp on a 'home system'.

However some ZFS features might be useful in a
larger, biz, environment. Lots of people love
the 'snapshot' feature - kind of an easy backup.

I've fooled with ZFS from time to time but the
complexity-vs-gain equation never seemed to
justify it. Now if you had 500 concurrent
users ......... ?

Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
From: Stéphane CARPENTIER
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Organization: Mulots' Killer
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2025 12:23 UTC
References: 1 2

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From: sc@fiat-linux.fr (Stéphane CARPENTIER)
Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
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Le 10-01-2025, Phillip <nntp@fulltermprivacy.com> a écrit :
> On 1/10/25 2:48 PM, Farley Flud wrote:
>> I hear a lot about the virtues of OpenZFS, which is available
>> for GNU/Linux albeit, due to license concerns, only in a roundabout
>> way. A separate external module must be compiled and then added
>> to the kernel.
>>
>> Since my programming predilection is HPC/scientific/engineering,
>> I know little about disk I/O concepts. So answer these questions
>> if you are able.
>>
>> Is OpenZFS suitable/recommended for a desktop workstation?
>>
>> What are the benefits of OpenZFS compared to EXT4?
>>
>> Is OpenZFS stable enough to be trusted?
>>
>> I will appreciate all responses.
>>
>>
>
> What's your use case for switching away from EXT4 to OpenZFS?

He doesn't. He only pretend he does to make believe he has the technical
capacity of switching between file system. But he can't. It's obvious
and well known here.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
From: Stéphane CARPENTIER
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Organization: Mulots' Killer
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2025 12:31 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6

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From: sc@fiat-linux.fr (Stéphane CARPENTIER)
Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
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Le 11-01-2025, 186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> a écrit :
> On 1/10/25 4:00 PM, Farley Flud wrote:
>> On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 15:37:17 -0500, Phillip wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Probably not without having specific requirements that leverage the ZFS
>>> file system. For example, I use it on a small server to handle RAID1+5
>>> for a business with 10 employees. At home I have no need for that so
>>> EXT4 is the better option for my needs at home.
>>>
>>
>> OK. Thanks.
>>
>> I was just curious but I'll stick with EXT4.

You are right about it.
It's a bad idea to rely on something owned by Oracle. It's a bad
company which changes the rules of the game during the game. Look at
what happened with java it was free until it starts to be under paid
licence. And there is nothing zfs brings that doesn't exist on other
file systems.

> Hard to go wrong with EXT4, esp on a 'home system'.

Exactly.

> However some ZFS features might be useful in a
> larger, biz, environment. Lots of people love
> the 'snapshot' feature - kind of an easy backup.
>
> I've fooled with ZFS from time to time but the
> complexity-vs-gain equation never seemed to
> justify it. Now if you had 500 concurrent
> users ......... ?

If you want snapshots, you have btrfs. If you want really big
environments you have cephfs. So zfs is useless and to be avoided.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
From: CrudeSausage
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Organization: usenet-news.net
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2025 12:45 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

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Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
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On 2025-01-11 07:31, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

> If you want snapshots, you have btrfs. If you want really big
> environments you have cephfs. So zfs is useless and to be avoided.

When I installed Fedora 41, I noticed it installed with btrfs. I was
expecting there to be some instability or whatever as a consequence of
using it over ext4, but it's been wonderful so far. Only the NVIDIA
driver's been a pain in the ass, but I think I figured out what I was
doing wrong and resolved the issue.

--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative

Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
From: Farley Flud
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Organization: UsenetExpress - www.usenetexpress.com
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2025 12:58 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

From: ff@linux.rocks (Farley Flud)
Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
References: <pan$cc206$666a7ee5$9c599643$77173a6a@linux.rocks> <vlrv05$22rn$1@dont-email.me> <pan$deac4$90d03d3d$f254895b$4b89b1ae@linux.rocks> <vls0dt$22rn$2@dont-email.me> <pan$702f0$c4554836$cd49f73b$97cc73de@linux.rocks> <Q8WcnYoJNqZ5nB_6nZ2dnZfqn_WdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <67826493$0$548$426a34cc@news.free.fr> <mJtgP.1370$pT47.465@fx07.iad>
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On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 07:45:06 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:

>
> but I think I figured out what I was
> doing wrong and resolved the issue.
>

Ha, ha, ha, ha!

The total extent of your technical expertise consists
in jiggling the connections and giving the box a hard
thump.

Ha, ha, ha, ha!

--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.gegeweb.eu!gegeweb.org!usenet-fr.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!cleanfeed4-a.proxad.net!nnrp2-1.free.fr!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
From: sc@fiat-linux.fr (Stéphane CARPENTIER)
Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
References: <pan$cc206$666a7ee5$9c599643$77173a6a@linux.rocks>
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Le 11-01-2025, Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> a écrit :
> On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 07:45:06 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>>
>> but I think I figured out what I was
>> doing wrong and resolved the issue.
>>
>
> The total extent of your technical expertise consists
> in jiggling the connections and giving the box a hard
> thump.

Which looks like it matches exactly your technical level. So, what's
wrong with that?

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

From: ff@linux.rocks (Farley Flud)
Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
References: <pan$cc206$666a7ee5$9c599643$77173a6a@linux.rocks> <vlrv05$22rn$1@dont-email.me> <pan$deac4$90d03d3d$f254895b$4b89b1ae@linux.rocks> <vls0dt$22rn$2@dont-email.me> <pan$702f0$c4554836$cd49f73b$97cc73de@linux.rocks> <Q8WcnYoJNqZ5nB_6nZ2dnZfqn_WdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <67826493$0$548$426a34cc@news.free.fr> <mJtgP.1370$pT47.465@fx07.iad> <pan$2d4df$17188600$d0e85deb$5f196c3a@linux.rocks> <678276d0$0$11433$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
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On 11 Jan 2025 13:49:04 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

>
> Which looks like it matches exactly your technical level.
>

Think so, Carpenter.

What would happen if your favorite GNU/Linux distro were
to suddenly disappear?

Ha, ha! Then you would be helplessly stuck in the mud.
Your computer would not function and you would, out of
sheer desperation, have to install Microslop Winblows
to save your sorry ass.

But I use no distro. My system is my own creation and
it will continue to function without problem as long
as I desire.

YOU are a pathetic distro lackey and you have no right
to judge anything technical.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

You don't even know what the software on your system
is doing. You have no control, rather it is YOU that
is being controlled.

Good luck.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
From: Physfitfreak
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Organization: Modern Human
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2025 18:24 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

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From: physfitfreak@gmail.com (Physfitfreak)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2025 12:24:26 -0600
Organization: Modern Human
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On 1/11/25 6:58 AM, Farley Flud wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 07:45:06 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>>
>> but I think I figured out what I was
>> doing wrong and resolved the issue.
>>
>
> Ha, ha, ha, ha!
>
> The total extent of your technical expertise consists
> in jiggling the connections and giving the box a hard
> thump.
>
> Ha, ha, ha, ha!
>
>
>

And praying to Penis X.

Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
From: Physfitfreak
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Organization: Modern Human
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2025 18:27 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

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From: physfitfreak@gmail.com (Physfitfreak)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2025 12:27:43 -0600
Organization: Modern Human
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On 1/11/25 9:49 AM, Farley Flud wrote:
> On 11 Jan 2025 13:49:04 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>
>>
>> Which looks like it matches exactly your technical level.
>>
>
> Think so, Carpenter.
>
> What would happen if your favorite GNU/Linux distro were
> to suddenly disappear?
>

Happens to me rather frequently.

Relf will tell him to change his display cable.

Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
From: DFS
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2025 21:44 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5

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From: guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca (DFS)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2025 16:44:28 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On 1/10/2025 4:00 PM, Lameass Larry wrote:

> Thanks.

huh?

Where's the ' for nothing, assholes.' part?

Is Mom watching over your shoulder?

Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
From: Lem Novantotto
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2025 00:25 UTC
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From: Lem@none.invalid (Lem Novantotto)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?
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Il Fri, 10 Jan 2025 19:48:37 +0000, Farley Flud ha scritto:

> Is OpenZFS suitable/recommended for a desktop workstation?

Of course / not recommended: you can live happily and more easily without
it, if you don't need it.
> What are the benefits of OpenZFS compared to EXT4?

Aside from being a filesystem? ;)

For desktops? It's CoW and it has snapshots, and a faster cache.
However these benefits may be completely irrelevant to someone.

> Is OpenZFS stable enough to be trusted?

Enough? Please... are you kidding?

Just check before you upgrade the kernel, if you live on the edge...
--
Bye, Lem
Talis erit dies qualem egeris

Subject	Author
Anyone Using OpenZFS?	Farley Flud
Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?	Phillip
Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?	Farley Flud
Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?	Phillip
Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?	Farley Flud
Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?	186282@ud0s4.net
Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?	Stéphane CARPENTIER
Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?	CrudeSausage
Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?	Farley Flud
Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?	Stéphane CARPENTIER
Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?	Farley Flud
Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?	Physfitfreak
Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?	Physfitfreak
Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?	DFS
Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?	Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?	Stéphane CARPENTIER
Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?	Grant Taylor
Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?	Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Re: Anyone Using OpenZFS?	Lem Novantotto