Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
> > On 04.01.25 13:55, Andy Burns wrote:
> >> Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> >>
> >>> Andy Burns wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Aren't DECT phone common over there? Many of them have SMS capability
> >>>> when on a PSTN/POTS line.
> >>>
> >>> In Europe IP-Telephone Services are standard. POTS/PSTN does not exist
> >>> anymore. This dates back to 2017 in the case of Switzerland.
> >> I think you are overstating the facts, I'm sure most European countries
> >> are in the process of migrating to VoIP, as far as I can tell only
> >> Germany, the Netherlands and Sweden claim to have completed this, and
> >> even then, does "completed" mean absolutely 100%, I doubt it ...
> >
> > Nonsense. Switzerland ended POTS/PSTN 2017.
> >
> > Scandinavia and Switzerland are at least 5 year rather 10 ahead of
> > Germany which is massively underdeveloped compared to Switzerland and
> > Scandinavia. Worse so in mobile telecommunication.
> >
>
> The UK only *started* phasing out POTS at the end of 2023...

2020, although it was only for new connections initially - ie you could
order VDSL broadband without a phone line, and got a VOIP service instead.
Forced replacement of POTS with VOIP only started to roll out in 2021.

( https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/tag/voip for the timeline)

Theo

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2025-01-05 01:14, Chris wrote:
>> Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
>>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> In the UK receiving txt messages via landline is (was? I've not had one for
>>>> ages) commonplace: texts are delivered as an automated voice message.
>>>>
>>> Yes, still true, it depends on the way the SMS gets sent to you
>>> though. We have DECT phones on a landline which isn't yet VOIP.
>>> The DECT handsets can receive and display SMS but, as I said,
>>> depending on the sender and intermediate systems, we sometimes get an
>>> actual text and other times a computer generated voice reading the
>>> message.
>>
>> Thanks for confirming. I suspect with the move to VOIP receiving texts will
>> be transparent in what used to be landlines.
>
> Depends. In Spain the change to VoIP is hidden. The telco pretends it is
> still POTS, and charges for all the POTS services. For example, callid
> has a price per month. The price structure is that of POTS. And they
> keep a secret how to configure a true VoIP phone (connected with
> ethernet or wifi, not copper pair), and do not offer the new services
> that VoIP allow.

That's unfortunate. Fortunately here in the UK, with a bit of planning, we
can port our landline number away from our usual provider to another VOIP
provider. Most people won't, however.

My current broadband contract is up this year and the POTS will be
discontinued so will have to get this done.

Chris wrote:

> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> In Spain the change to VoIP is hidden. The telco pretends it is
>> still POTS, and charges for all the POTS services.
>
> That's unfortunate. Fortunately here in the UK, with a bit of planning, we
> can port our landline number away from our usual provider to another VOIP
> provider. Most people won't, however.
>
> My current broadband contract is up this year and the POTS will be
> discontinued so will have to get this done.
The spanish solution sounds rather like fibre to the cabinet, with voice
cards fitted to the cabinet?

On 2025-01-06 09:23, Andy Burns wrote:
> Chris wrote:
>
>> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>> In Spain the change to VoIP is hidden. The telco pretends it is
>>> still POTS, and charges for all the POTS services.
>>
>> That's unfortunate. Fortunately here in the UK, with a bit of
>> planning, we
>> can port our landline number away from our usual provider to another VOIP
>> provider. Most people won't, however.
>>
>> My current broadband contract is up this year and the POTS will be
>> discontinued so will have to get this done.
> The spanish solution sounds rather like fibre to the cabinet, with voice
> cards fitted to the cabinet?

It is fibre to the sitting room, to the router, or to a little box
before it called "ONT". Either the ONT or the router have copper pair
out, thus it is VoIP to the router, POTS out of it.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R. wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> The spanish solution sounds rather like fibre to the cabinet, with
>> voice cards fitted to the cabinet?
>
> It is fibre to the sitting room, to the router, or to a little box
> before it called "ONT". Either the ONT or the router have copper pair
> out, thus it is VoIP to the router, POTS out of it.
Is your sitting room a mile long then :-) or was it someone else who
mentioned "last mile"?

On 2025-01-06 14:43, Andy Burns wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> The spanish solution sounds rather like fibre to the cabinet, with
>>> voice cards fitted to the cabinet?
>>
>> It is fibre to the sitting room, to the router, or to a little box
>> before it called "ONT". Either the ONT or the router have copper pair
>> out, thus it is VoIP to the router, POTS out of it.
> Is your sitting room a mile long then :-) or was it someone else who
> mentioned "last mile"?

Somebody else.

Here Telefónica delivers fibre to to the sitting room router. If that is
not feasible, it is radio.

However, Vodafone does not, they do fibre to the block, then coax to the
home (two coax, I think, one for internet and tv, another for phone.
Unsure). They may use other technologies too.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 1/4/2025 9:54 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> Depends. In Spain the change to VoIP is hidden. The telco pretends it is
> still POTS, and charges for all the POTS services. For example, callid
> has a price per month. The price structure is that of POTS. And they
> keep a secret how to configure a true VoIP phone (connected with
> ethernet or wifi, not copper pair), and do not offer the new services
> that VoIP allow.
>

I'm struck by how differently it works in different countries.
In the US I had to give up real landline because they were
charging a very high price. They didn't want to maintain the
wires anymore. So I got a modem and account through my
ISP. They charged $30+/month, trying to double or triple it
occasionally, hoping that I wouldn't notice. So it was basically
VOIP but it was sold as a different service. I now have Vonage.
$16/month. There's a small device to make it work over
ethernet.

So my ISP could have given me the VOIP for a tiny fee, because
it really was VOIP in the first place. But they pretended that they
were giving me a separate phone line. And I fell for it! It took some
courage to just dump their phone and get straight VOIP.

The woman I live with still has a phone line through the ISP,
but it might cost more if she dumped it! The prices mean nothing.
Their official prices are very high, then they claim that whatever
we pay is a special deal. They could charge us more for Internet
than for Internet and phone if they want to. And that often happens.
Companies want all the business in the houses they serve.

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
> > Andy Burns wrote:
> >
> >> The spanish solution sounds rather like fibre to the cabinet, with
> >> voice cards fitted to the cabinet?
> >
> > It is fibre to the sitting room, to the router, or to a little box
> > before it called "ONT". Either the ONT or the router have copper pair
> > out, thus it is VoIP to the router, POTS out of it.
>
> Is your sitting room a mile long then :-) or was it someone else who
> mentioned "last mile"?

The "last mile" was me, but in a slightly different context, i.e. the
VOIP-to-POTS was not in the sitting room, but somewhere upto a 'mile'
away.

OTOH, I also mentioned an Aussie setup similar to what Carlos
described, so being in Oz, their sitting room might well be a mile long.
:-)