Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> On 1/3/2025 5:34 PM, Chris wrote:
>
>>> There's no such thing.
>>
>> There certainly is.
>
> I'm talking about the US.

So what? Doesn't change the facts.

Carlos E.R. wrote:

> The telephone exchange converts the text to machine voice, and then
> phones you.
>
> This service depends on the company and the country, and possibly on
> contracting the service. It is not universal.
>
>    I tried it long ago here (Spain) and quickly disabled it.
>    I think messages were delivered only at a more or less
>    fixed hour.

Here, it will phone you any time of day with the voice messages, there
is an IVR number you can call to set a curfew for voice delivery, or
just turn it off altogether.

Newyana2 wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Aren't DECT phone common over there?  Many of them have SMS capability
>> when on a PSTN/POTS line.
>
>   I don't know what DECT

I suspected they hadn't really caught-on over there, they're digital
cordless (mostly home) phones, so they tend to have a lot of mobile-like
features, such as a graphical display. Though mostly people associate
texting only with mobiles.

> or POTS mean.

I specifically said POTS because I believed you used that term (plain
old telephone service) rather than PSTN, oh well.

> We have landlines
> that can be direct phone wires or VOIP. Either way, the
> phones are the same.

Same here.

> There's room for maybe 12 letter in
> the Caller ID display and no facility to receive a text.
> They can receive an audio message, but then, who's going
> to go to the trouble to sned an audio message when most of
> the people they know have texting?

Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
> On 03.01.25 21:52, Andy Burns wrote:
> > Newyana2 wrote:
> >
> >> micky wrote:
> >>
> >>> Trying to find how to allow texts to a Verizion FIOS line has been
> >>> suprisingly unsuccessful.
> >>
> >> There's no such thing. Think it through. Where could the text display
> >> even if it did come through?
> >
> > Aren't DECT phone common over there? Many of them have SMS capability
> > when on a PSTN/POTS line.
>
> In Europe IP-Telephone Services are standard. POTS/PSTN does not exist
> anymore. This dates back to 2017 in the case of Switzerland.
>
There are still **some** POTS lines in the UK, but they are being
phased out.

--
Chris Green
·

Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> In the UK receiving txt messages via landline is (was? I've not had one for
> ages) commonplace: texts are delivered as an automated voice message.
>
Yes, still true, it depends on the way the SMS gets sent to you
though. We have DECT phones on a landline which isn't yet VOIP.
The DECT handsets can receive and display SMS but, as I said,
depending on the sender and intermediate systems, we sometimes get an
actual text and other times a computer generated voice reading the
message.

--
Chris Green
·

On 04.01.25 10:31, Andy Burns wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> The telephone exchange converts the text to machine voice, and then
>> phones you.
>>
>> This service depends on the company and the country, and possibly on
>> contracting the service. It is not universal.
>>
>>    I tried it long ago here (Spain) and quickly disabled it.
>>    I think messages were delivered only at a more or less
>>    fixed hour.
>
> Here, it will phone you any time of day with the voice messages, there
> is an IVR number you can call to set a curfew for voice delivery, or
> just turn it off altogether.

In the IP world such things are done in the personal webaccount.

--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

On 2025-01-04 09:07, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> On 04.01.25 02:07, Newyana2 wrote:
>> On 1/3/2025 5:34 PM, Chris wrote:
>>
>>>> There's no such thing.
>>>
>>> There certainly is.
>>
>> I'm talking about the US.
>
> As far as state of the art telecom services are concerned, they are one
> or two decades behind Europe. Not only with fixed line services.

Which is weird, considering that they built very good PSTN hardware,
state of the art, which was installed both sides of the pond. I'm
thinking of the Lucent aka AT&T 5ESSS, for instance, witch which I worked.

Of course, they charged per feature, so the operators would not activate
all the features.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Jörg Lorenz wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Here, it will phone you any time of day with the voice messages, there
>> is an IVR number you can call to set a curfew for voice delivery, or
>> just turn it off altogether.
>
> In the IP world such things are done in the personal webaccount.
Here, the SMS doesn't seem to make it as far as my VoIP provider, it
seems to get intercepted by BT/Openreach and delivered by voice to my
VoIP provider. I haven't had any online account with BT for about 2
decades.

Jörg Lorenz wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Aren't DECT phone common over there? Many of them have SMS capability
>> when on a PSTN/POTS line.
>
> In Europe IP-Telephone Services are standard. POTS/PSTN does not exist
> anymore. This dates back to 2017 in the case of Switzerland.
I think you are overstating the facts, I'm sure most European countries
are in the process of migrating to VoIP, as far as I can tell only
Germany, the Netherlands and Sweden claim to have completed this, and
even then, does "completed" mean absolutely 100%, I doubt it ...

On 1/4/2025 4:42 AM, Andy Burns wrote:

>>    I don't know what DECT
>
> I suspected they hadn't really caught-on over there, they're digital
> cordless (mostly home) phones, so they tend to have a lot of mobile-like
> features, such as a graphical display.  Though mostly people associate
> texting only with mobiles.
>

Yes, that's unfamiliar. I didn't know there was such a thing.
In Carlos's description he says it serves the IoT. Here that's only
possible via ethernet or wifi. So I guess I'm glad my dryer can't
jump online through my phone line.

Though I'm still not completely clear about this. My landline
has cordless extensions and a limited graphical display. It has
caller ID and I can choose to program in numbers to be blocked.
However, it does not have wireless connection to any network.
It's still a landline -- what you apparently call POTS. The only
change is updated hardware.

DECT sounds like it's truly wireless, connecting via towers
like cellphones? Or via wifi as wireless VOIP? Or maybe via
telephone pole receivers that you can see out the windy? :)

>> or POTS mean.
>
> I specifically said POTS because I believed you used that term (plain
> old telephone service) rather than PSTN, oh well.
>

Probably true, but this sounds like engineer or historian talk.
We used to talk about telephones. Now we talk about landlines
or cellular. No one has ever needed technical acronyms. But I
was unaware that there were fundamentally different systems
operating elsewhere.

On 1/3/2025 8:48 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2025-01-04 02:07, Newyana2 wrote:
>> On 1/3/2025 5:34 PM, Chris wrote:
>>
>>>>   There's no such thing.
>>>
>>> There certainly is.
>>
>> I'm talking about the US.
>
> Is that in the third world, a disadvantaged country? (SCNR)
>

It's Rome to you, buddy boy. :) We're the seat of
worldwide culture, while everyone else is in what we
call the boondocks. Spongebob Squarepants?
American. Cocoa Puffs? American. Taylor Swift?
American. I rest my case. If they ever invent hot
fudge sundae flavored Pepsi, that, too, will be American.

What have you people got? Shakespeare. History.
Literacy. The Renaissance. Big woop. If you're so smart,
why did Spongebob and Lucky Charms originate in the US?

Newyana2 wrote:

> In Carlos's description he says it serves the IoT. Here that's only
> possible via ethernet or wifi. So I guess I'm glad my dryer can't
> jump online through my phone line.

I think the IoT aspect is new, mine doesn't have it, the DECT
base-station does have bluetooth to link to a mobile phone (which was
rubbish quality last time I tried).

On 1/4/2025 6:47 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2025-01-04 09:07, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> On 04.01.25 02:07, Newyana2 wrote:
>>> On 1/3/2025 5:34 PM, Chris wrote:
>>>
>>>>>    There's no such thing.
>>>>
>>>> There certainly is.
>>>
>>> I'm talking about the US.
>>
>> As far as state of the art telecom services are concerned, they are one
>> or two decades behind Europe. Not only with fixed line services.
>
> Which is weird, considering that they built very good PSTN hardware,
> state of the art, which was installed both sides of the pond. I'm
> thinking of the Lucent aka AT&T 5ESSS, for instance, witch which I worked.
>
> Of course, they charged per feature, so the operators would not activate
> all the features.
>

I'm not a history expert, but I think there are probably two
main factors. One is that corporations have great power here.
Patents, monopoly and scam marketing are rampant limitations.
I get flyers from Verizon for their fiberoptic service that have
maybe 500 words of disclaimers on them that I can't even read
with my glasses on. It's absurd. That text lists the endless
number of restrictions and gotchas that apply to their advertised
sale price. And it doesn't even detail all of them. Which means it's
not possible to actually find out the price of the service!

Cellphones are similar. A few years ago I went around to each
of 4 companies to find out what their rates were. All started at
$39.99. Not one of them could tell me what the actual cost would
be after they added in mickey mouse fees. A woman who was in
one store to pay her bill was nice enough to show me hers. It was
about $80 -- twice the advertised rate.

We were forced to rent telephones until they broke up Bell
Telephone. Long distance calls only became affordable much
later. To this day I wouldn't call Europe. I have no idea what
it would cost.

The other difference in the US is that it's largely rural. I have
a brother with no home cellphone access and who only recently
got Internet via cable. That's common. It's expensive to run
the wires. Companies don't want to maintain old wires and they
don't want to put up towers in sparsely populated areas.

Newyana2 wrote:

> what Andy described does not exist in the US.
> We have basic telephone lines, first installed by Al Bell.
> And we now have cellphones

Until recently DECT phones plug into basic phone lines.

Since the introduction of VoIP, the DECT base may connect to an analogue
adapter, or the adapter may be built-in to the ISP router, or the base
may connect to your router via ethernet.

On 2025-01-04 13:55, Andy Burns wrote:
> Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> Aren't DECT phone common over there?  Many of them have SMS capability
>>> when on a PSTN/POTS line.
>>
>> In Europe IP-Telephone Services are standard. POTS/PSTN does not exist
>> anymore. This dates back to 2017 in the case of Switzerland.
> I think you are overstating the facts, I'm sure most European countries
> are in the process of migrating to VoIP, as far as I can tell only
> Germany, the Netherlands and Sweden claim to have completed this, and
> even then, does "completed" mean absolutely 100%, I doubt it ...

In Spain Telefónica claims to have done it. Users that have not been
switched to fibre have radio now.

I don't know about other companies, but for example the old ONO,
currently Vodafone, installed fibre to the block, coaxial to the home,
then copper pair to the room. I don't know what exact technology.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2025-01-04 14:20, Newyana2 wrote:
> On 1/4/2025 4:42 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
>
>>>    I don't know what DECT
>>
>> I suspected they hadn't really caught-on over there, they're digital
>> cordless (mostly home) phones, so they tend to have a lot of mobile-
>> like features, such as a graphical display.  Though mostly people
>> associate texting only with mobiles.
>>
>
>   Yes, that's unfamiliar. I didn't know there was such a thing.
> In Carlos's description he says it serves the IoT. Here that's only
> possible via ethernet or wifi. So I guess I'm glad my dryer can't
> jump online through my phone line.
>
>   Though I'm still not completely clear about this. My landline
> has cordless extensions and a limited graphical display. It has
> caller ID and I can choose to program in numbers to be blocked.
> However, it does not have wireless connection to any network.
> It's still a landline -- what you apparently call POTS. The only
> change is updated hardware.
>
>   DECT sounds like it's truly wireless, connecting via towers
> like cellphones? Or via wifi as wireless VOIP? Or maybe via
> telephone pole receivers that you can see out the windy? :)

No. DECT phones connect by radio to a base at your home, which is
connected to the copper pair.

You can see a photo of the base station on the wikipedia article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DECT

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> On 1/4/2025 4:42 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
>
> >>    I don't know what DECT
> >
> > I suspected they hadn't really caught-on over there, they're digital
> > cordless (mostly home) phones, so they tend to have a lot of mobile-like
> > features, such as a graphical display.  Though mostly people associate
> > texting only with mobiles.
> >
>
> Yes, that's unfamiliar. I didn't know there was such a thing.
> In Carlos's description he says it serves the IoT. Here that's only
> possible via ethernet or wifi. So I guess I'm glad my dryer can't
> jump online through my phone line.
>
> Though I'm still not completely clear about this. My landline
> has cordless extensions and a limited graphical display. It has
> caller ID and I can choose to program in numbers to be blocked.
> However, it does not have wireless connection to any network.
> It's still a landline -- what you apparently call POTS. The only
> change is updated hardware.

I think you might be using DECT without realising it. eg from a search on
Amazon.com for 'cordless phone', #4 is an AT&T branded DECT base and handset:

https://www.amazon.com/AT-BL102-2-2-Handset-Answering-Unsurpassed/dp/B086QB7WZ1

and similar are at #6, #9, #11, #12. Most of the others are Panasonic or
V-Tech, many of which have DECT in the title too.

What model of cordless landline phone do you have?

Theo

On 1/4/2025 9:12 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> No. DECT phones connect by radio to a base at your home, which is
> connected to the copper pair.
>
> You can see a photo of the base station on the wikipedia article.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DECT
>
Ah. We have almost that. Multiple phones talk to each other.
But one must be wired directly.

On 1/4/2025 10:22 AM, Theo wrote:

> I think you might be using DECT without realising it. eg from a search on
> Amazon.com for 'cordless phone', #4 is an AT&T branded DECT base and handset:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/AT-BL102-2-2-Handset-Answering-Unsurpassed/dp/B086QB7WZ1
>
> and similar are at #6, #9, #11, #12. Most of the others are Panasonic or
> V-Tech, many of which have DECT in the title too.
>
> What model of cordless landline phone do you have?
>

Panasonic. But note that the phone in the picture has an
antenna. Mine is wired directly to the phone line, which
goes to the VOIP device but used to go to a modem and
before that wen't to public telephone lines. The extensions
are wireless, but not the base station/answering machine.

I've never seen a fully wireless landline. But maybe it's not
really different. Using radio waves to get to the phone line is
not fundamentally changing the technology. The phone in the
picture has the same basic display and functions. The only
difference seems to be that it doesn't need to be direct-wired.

If DECT eventually goes to the landline
then it would seem that the lack of landline texting in the
US may be more due to simple lack of support rather than
technical issues. Not that I mind. I have no interest in
receiving 100 characters of misspelled trivia, scrolling
across my tiny phone screen like news headlines. As it
stands, I'm glad that people can't text me.

On 04.01.25 13:55, Andy Burns wrote:
> Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> Aren't DECT phone common over there? Many of them have SMS capability
>>> when on a PSTN/POTS line.
>>
>> In Europe IP-Telephone Services are standard. POTS/PSTN does not exist
>> anymore. This dates back to 2017 in the case of Switzerland.
> I think you are overstating the facts, I'm sure most European countries
> are in the process of migrating to VoIP, as far as I can tell only
> Germany, the Netherlands and Sweden claim to have completed this, and
> even then, does "completed" mean absolutely 100%, I doubt it ...

Nonsense. Switzerland ended POTS/PSTN 2017.

Scandinavia and Switzerland are at least 5 year rather 10 ahead of
Germany which is massively underdeveloped compared to Switzerland and
Scandinavia. Worse so in mobile telecommunication.

--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

On 1/4/2025 9:01 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
> Newyana2 wrote:
>
>> what Andy described does not exist in the US.
> may connect to your router via ethernet.
>

The more we talk about this, the more it seems that DECT
merely refers to having a wired base station with wireless
extensions. That's common in the US. So maybe texting
to landlines is really a separate issue. In general it seems
silly, anyway. Most people now use cellphones, and landline
displays are very poorly suited to texting. There would be no
reason to add the functionality.

On 1/4/2025 6:25 AM, Newyana2 wrote:

> We [US] have basic telephone lines, first installed by Al Bell. And
> we now have cellphones, which require transmission towers. About 1/3
> of the US still doesn't even have cell access.

There's a 3rd wired option at my [US] house. My 5 year old Samsung
Galaxy S10+ has WiFi Calling which uses my home wired cable system and
switches automatically to cell when I leave. No need for a POTS system
anymore which of course I got rid of...

On 04.01.25 15:01, Andy Burns wrote:
> Newyana2 wrote:
>
>> what Andy described does not exist in the US.
>> We have basic telephone lines, first installed by Al Bell.
>> And we now have cellphones
>
> Until recently DECT phones plug into basic phone lines.

DECT has absolutely nothing to do with the backend of the telefon-system
in a house. It is simply a radio standard.

> Since the introduction of VoIP, the DECT base may connect to an analogue
> adapter, or the adapter may be built-in to the ISP router, or the base
> may connect to your router via ethernet.

Exclusively internet routers are used.

DECT
Digital enhanced cordless telecommunications

Digital Enhanced Cordless Telecommunications (DECT) is a cordless
telephony standard maintained by ETSI. It originated in Europe, where it
is the common standard, replacing earlier standards, such as CT1 and
CT2.[1] Since the DECT-2020 standard onwards, it also includes IoT
communication.

Beyond Europe, it has been adopted by Australia and most countries in
Asia and South America. North American adoption was delayed by United
States radio-frequency regulations. This forced development of a
variation of DECT called DECT 6.0, using a slightly different frequency
range, which makes these units incompatible with systems intended for
use in other areas, even from the same manufacturer. DECT has almost
completely replaced other standards in most countries where it is used,
with the exception of North America.

DECT was originally intended for fast roaming between networked base
stations, and the first DECT product was Net3 wireless LAN.

--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

Jörg Lorenz wrote:

>> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Until recently DECT phones plug into basic phone lines.
>
> DECT has absolutely nothing to do with the backend of the telefon-system
> in a house. It is simply a radio standard.
Nevertheless, it is common for DECT phones to plug into analogue phone
lines. Why is everything seen as an opportunity for an argument with you?

Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> On 1/4/2025 3:35 AM, Chris wrote:
>> Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>>> On 1/3/2025 5:34 PM, Chris wrote:
>>>
>>>>> There's no such thing.
>>>>
>>>> There certainly is.
>>>
>>> I'm talking about the US.
>>
>> So what? Doesn't change the facts.
>>
>
> Yes, it does. I also didn't know that the systems were
> different, but what Andy described does not exist in the US.
> We have basic telephone lines, first installed by Al Bell.

So do we, but installed by the GPO many moons ago. However, BT Openreach
are in the process of moving everyone to FTTC/FTTP and VOIP.

> And we now have cellphones, which require transmission
> towers.

What is this new fangled thing you're talking about!? lol

> About 1/3 of the US still doesn't even have cell
> access.

Do you mean geographically or by population? I suspect the former.

> I'm not sure, but I think Micky is in the US. Is so then
> he cannot receive texts over his landline He can only
> receive audio.

As I (and others) have pointed out the system mentioned is an audio call,
not text. He (and you) could receive txt messages via your landlines *if*
your telcos implemented something similar.