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alt / alt.ascii-art / Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions

SubjectAuthor
* [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questionsColin Randall
`* Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questionsViatrix
 `* Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questionsColin Randall
  `* Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questionscolin randall
   `* Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questionsColin Randall
    `* Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questionsViatrix
     `* Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questionsColin Randall
      `* Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questionsViatrix
       `* Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questionsViatrix
        `* Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questionsViatrix
         `* Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questionsViatrix
          `* Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questionsColin Randall
           +* Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questionscolin randall
           |`- Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questionscolin randall
           `* Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questionsViatrix
            +* Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questionsViatrix
            |`- Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questionscolin randall
            `* Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questionsColin Randall
             `* Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questionsViatrix
              `- Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questionsColin Randall

1
Subject: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
From: Colin Randall
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Organization: none whatsoever
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 22:12 UTC
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: colin.randall2@gmail.com (Colin Randall)
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Subject: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 23:12:26 +0100
Organization: none whatsoever
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From: colin.randall2@gmail.com (CJRandall)
Subject: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art,alt.ascii-art.animation,news.answers
Followup-To: alt.ascii-art
Approved: news-answers-request@MIT.EDU
X-Disclaimer: Approval for *.answers is based on form, not content.
Organisation: none what so ever
Summary: Ascii-Art FAQ version 3 <pre>
it contains texts written by:-
Jorn Barger, Bob Allison and Matthew Thomas
together with texts gleaned from many others
this is the most recent (v3.0.3.34) publication
+------------------------------------------------
it is provided such that it may be helpful
+------------------------------------------------
changes from v3.0.3.33 are: minor revisions+links validated
changes from v3.0.3.32 are: additions+corrections
changes from v3.0.3.31 are: minor revisions
changes from v3.0.3.30 are: google-groups fix+links validated
changes from v3.0.3.29 are: no m$.outlook+google-groups bad
changes from v3.0.3.28 are: minor revisions
changes from v3.0.3.27 are: links updated+validated
changes from v3.0.3.26 are: minor revisions
changes from v3.0.3.25 are: links validated
changes from v3.0.3.24 are: posting-frequency

Archive-name: arts/ascii
X-Archive-name: ascii-art/faq
Posting-Frequency: occasionally
Version: 3.0.3.34
Last-changed: 2023-04-14 cjr
Compiler: CJRandall <colin.randall2@gmail.com>
Copyright: Public display of this document in proportional-fonts is forbidden

========================================================================
| | : : :: \ \ ;;
J J : : :: \ \ ;;
L L : : __ _ _________ \ \ ;;
| | : : / |`| |`|___ ___|`-.\ \ ;;
J J : : / . | | | `-.| |`-. `-.`\ \ ;;
L L : : / /| | | | | | `-. `-\ \ ;;
| | : : / /_| | | | | | `-. \ \. ;;
J J : : / ___ | | | | | `-\ \`-.
L L : : / /`-.| | | |___ | | _ \ \-.`-._
| | : : /_/____|_|_|_____|_|_|_(_) _ \ \ `-._`:
J J : : |__________________________| `-. \ \-.,-'
L L : : _ _ _ _ _ ___ `-. `-. \ \ |
| | :_: /\(_`/ `-| |`-_/\-| )-_| `-. `-. `-. \ \|
J J | | /--\_)\_,_|_|__/--\|_\__|__ `-. `-._`-\ \
L L|_| |___________________________|`-. `-._ `-.\ \
| | | _____ ___ ___ `-.`-._ `-._ \ ,!`-.
J J | | ___|`/ _ \`-._/ _ \`--. `-._`--._`-'||`-'
L L | | |_ / /_\ \ / / \ \ `-._ `--. `-,+.`-._
__-------_ | _|`/ _____ \ \ \_/ /_._ `--._ `-.|X||-./
| |/|_|_./_/_____\_\_\_____/=\`-._ `-. |X||.|
| _,--------------.____ -========\_(A)`-.._ `-|X||\
Ool | _| ` |_`--. `-- |X||/
/VK | | | ALT.ASCII-ART: FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS / ||-.
========================================================================
[Subject:] (FAQ) Welcome to ASCII art
========================================================================

__ __ __ _,
\\ \\ / ___ '|| ___ ___ __ _ _ ___ _/|_ ___
\\ /\\ / //_\) || // \)// \\ ||'||'|| //_\) || // \\
\/ \/ \\__,_||_\\__,\\_//_||_||_||_\\__, \|_\\_//

___ ___ ____ ____
/\ (( / // | || || ___ _,_ _/|_
/_\\ \\ (( || || __\\'||\) ||
_/ _\\_/__)) \\__,_||_ _||_ ((_||_||_ \|_

Answers to frequently asked questions about ASCII art
========================================================================
On the Web, the FAQ and other useful documents can be found in the
ASCII art Documentation Archive (ADA), at the following locations:-
========================================================================
*** There is a wealth of information about ASCII Art ***
*** in the ASCII Documents Archive ***
========================================================================
International Mirrors
========================================================================
https://www.votrezone.com/ada/ (Calgary, Canada)
https://vyznev.net/ascii/ada/ (Helsinki, Finland)
https://www.ludd.ltu.se/~vk/q/ada/ (Lulea, Sweden)

https://dmoz-odp.org/Computers/Usenet/FAQs/Individual_Group_FAQs/
========================================================================
-+*%$%*+-.-+*%$%*+-.-+*%$%*+-.-+*%$%*+-.-+*%$%*+-.-+*%$%*+-.-+*%$%*+-
========================================================================
Contents
========================================================================
[1] What's alt.ascii-art?
[2] What is ASCII art?
[3] What does ASCII mean?
[4] Why do all the pictures look strange?
[5] What font do you use for ASCII art?
[6] What program do you use for ASCII art?
[7] How do I draw my own ASCII art?
[8] Can someone do me some kewl lettering?
[9] Where can I find Figlet's address?
[10] Can I copy or post that ASCII picture for myself?
[11] What way works best to ask for a picture of something?
[12] What should I know before posting to alt.ascii-art?
[13] What to NOT post to alt.ascii-art? [da roolz]
[14] Have a picture or graphic and would like it Asciified?
[15] How do I convert a picture or graphic to ASCII art?
[16] How do I put ASCII art on a webpage?
[17] What are ASCII art signature files?
[18] What is ASCII art animation?
[19] What does ObAscii mean?
[21] Where can I find pictures/tutorials/infos/chatrooms/experts?
[22] Historacle's What types of ASCII art are there?
[X1] The Ascii Art 10-Commandments

========================================================================
[1] What's alt.ascii-art? What's going on here?
========================================================================
You're probably reading this because it's been posted to
news:alt.ascii-art, news:alt.ascii-art.animation or rec.arts.ascii.
If you're not, jump in and take a look. In these Usenet groups
people discuss ASCII art, request ASCII art, post ASCII art, post
improved versions or variations of other people's ASCII art, and
generally have fun.

========================================================================
[2] What is ASCII art?
========================================================================
ASCII art is any sort of pictures or diagrams drawn with the
printable characters in the ASCII character set.
(For a definition of ASCII, see Question 3.)

:-) Probably the most common ASCII art picture is the smiley (-:
=) but it can get a lot more sophisticated than that. (=
____
.-" +' "-. Here's a small ASCII picture of
/.'.'A_'*`.\ a snow-scene paperweight,
|:.*'/\-\. ':| drawn by Joan Stark:
|:.'.||"|.'*:|
\:~^~^~^~^:/ If this picture looks very strange and
/`-....-'\ you can't really tell what it is,
jgs / \ don't panic -- see Question 5.
`-.,____,.-'

People use ASCII art for a number of reasons. Here are some of them.
* It is the most universal computer art form in the world --
every computer system capable of displaying multi-line text can
display ASCII art, without needing to have a graphics mode or
support a particular graphics file format.
* An ASCII picture is hundreds of times smaller in file size
than its GIF or BMP equivalent, while still giving a good idea
of what something looks like.
* It's easy to copy from one file to another (just cut and paste).
* It's fun!

========================================================================
[3] What does ASCII mean?
========================================================================
ASCII (American Standard Code for Information Interchange)
7-bit as defined in ISO-646 is a basic set of 128 numbered symbols
which almost all kinds of computer can display. Here are the ones
that are used for ASCII art:

032 [space] 048 0 064 @ 080 P 096 ` 112 p
033 ! 049 1 065 A 081 Q 097 a 113 q
034 " 050 2 066 B 082 R 098 b 114 r
035 # 051 3 067 C 083 S 099 c 115 s
036 $ 052 4 068 D 084 T 100 d 116 t
037 % 053 5 069 E 085 U 101 e 117 u
038 & 054 6 070 F 086 V 102 f 118 v
039 ' 055 7 071 G 087 W 103 g 119 w
040 ( 056 8 072 H 088 X 104 h 120 x
041 ) 057 9 073 I 089 Y 105 i 121 y
042 * 058 : 074 J 090 Z 106 j 122 z
043 + 059 ; 075 K 091 [ 107 k 123 {
044 , 060 < 076 L 092 \ 108 l 124 |
045 - 061 = 077 M 093 ] 109 m 125 }
046 . 062 > 078 N 094 ^ 110 n 126 ~
047 / 063 ? 079 O 095 _ 111 o


Click here to read the complete article
Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
From: Viatrix
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 23:32 UTC
References: 1
Attachments: unnamed (application/pgp-signature)
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: viatrix-usenetting@purelymail.com (Viatrix)
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 16:32:59 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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> [snip - ASCII Art FAQ 3.0.3.34]
Hey Colin, I'm seeing line-leading single spaces elided from the FAQ
itself. Are those missing in your copy of the FAQ or are they being
removed somewhere along the transfer to me?
e.g. the "5" in "The ASCII Art FAQ Ten Commandments" doesn't line up

Attachments: unnamed (application/pgp-signature)
Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
From: Colin Randall
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Organization: none whatsoever
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 09:20 UTC
References: 1 2
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: colin.randall2@gmail.com (Colin Randall)
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 10:20:34 +0100
Organization: none whatsoever
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <u1lnd3$3fftd$1@dont-email.me>
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On 15/04/2023 00:32, Viatrix wrote:
>> [snip - ASCII Art FAQ 3.0.3.34]
> Hey Colin, I'm seeing line-leading single spaces elided from the FAQ
> itself. Are those missing in your copy of the FAQ or are they being
> removed somewhere along the transfer to me?
> e.g. the "5" in "The ASCII Art FAQ Ten Commandments" doesn't line up

this bit ?

========================================================================
[X1]
-------------------THE ASCII ART FAQ TEN COMMANDMENTS-------------------

\\\\`///
/ _ _| 1. Thou shalt read the FAQ.
(\'('\/') 2. Thou shalt not remove the
______/( >(__ initials from any ASCII art.
/`- \ \_=__| `\ 3. Thou shalt not claim ownership
/ /__( _____\ _____ of someone else's ASCII art.
/_ \.____ ," "." ",__ 4. Thou shalt read the FAQ.
| / _\__/_ - / \ 5. Thou shalt ask permission
\/ /____ \ASCII ART FAQ /// before using someone else's
) / / \__\ - | ASCII art.
'-.__|_/ ///| I VI | 6. Thou shalt not sell someone
\_ | | | else's ASCII art.
| | II VII | 7. Thou shalt read the darn FAQ.
\ | | | 8. Thou shalt not post someone
/ | III VIII | else's ASCII art without making
\ | | | clear that you didn't make it.
\_ | IV IX | 9. Thou shalt not assume that
\| | | ASCII art isn't art at all.
| V X | 10. Thou shalt read the FAQing FAQ.
|______b'ger______|

========================================================================
|||| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ||||
| END O F T H E A S C I I A R T FAQ |
|||| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ||||

the above is copy'n'pasted from the post i received
using thunderbird and eternal.september's servers

altho ...

just had a look on google.gropes using firefox and you're right!
the post there does have an alignment issue ... that section has
a single space *added* at the head of each line except those two
lines with *no* leading spaces

how odd ...
--
.
._!__ __ __
/ _\/_ |_ \!_
/ / 7 / /|
\ \_ _/ / \ .
\_//__/|_\_\!_.
|

Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
From: colin randall
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 09:31 UTC
References: 1 2 3
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:7f87:0:b0:3e3:8ed5:a47a with SMTP id z7-20020ac87f87000000b003e38ed5a47amr5697337qtj.9.1681810265535;
Tue, 18 Apr 2023 02:31:05 -0700 (PDT)
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p16-20020a25d810000000b00b92348fe5d1mr4977349ybg.9.1681810265343; Tue, 18 Apr
2023 02:31:05 -0700 (PDT)
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Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 02:31:05 -0700 (PDT)
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<u1lnd3$3fftd$1@dont-email.me>
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Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
From: colin.randall2@googlemail.com (colin randall)
Injection-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 09:31:05 +0000
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wow that looks shite in firefox on googlegroups
dunno why yet
--

Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
From: Colin Randall
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Organization: none whatsoever
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 10:02 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: colin.randall2@gmail.com (Colin Randall)
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 11:02:16 +0100
Organization: none whatsoever
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <u1lpr8$3g4pv$1@dont-email.me>
References: <u1cj4b$1mt69$1@dont-email.me>
<20230414163259.7f528ebf@lm-Satellite-Pro-C70-B>
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On 18/04/2023 10:31, colin randall wrote:
> wow that looks shite in firefox on googlegroups
> dunno why yet
a possible workaround? shall test
-------------------THE ASCII ART FAQ TEN COMMANDMENTS-------------------

\\\\`///
/ _ _| 1. Thou shalt read the FAQ.
(\'('\/') 2. Thou shalt not remove the
______/( >(__ initials from any ASCII art.
/`- \ \_=__| `\ 3. Thou shalt not claim ownership
/ /__( _____\ _____ of someone else's ASCII art.
/_ \.____ ," "." ",__ 4. Thou shalt read the FAQ.
| / _\__/_ - / \ 5. Thou shalt ask permission
\/ /____ \ASCII ART FAQ /// before using someone else's
) / / \__\ - | ASCII art.
'-.__|_/ ///| I VI | 6. Thou shalt not sell someone
\_ | | | else's ASCII art.
| | II VII | 7. Thou shalt read the darn FAQ.
\ | | | 8. Thou shalt not post someone
/ | III VIII | else's ASCII art without making
\ | | | clear that you didn't make it.
\_ | IV IX | 9. Thou shalt not assume that
\| | | ASCII art isn't art at all.
| V X | 10. Thou shalt read the FAQing FAQ.
|______b'ger______|

========================================================================
--
.
._!__ __ __
/ _\/_ |_ \!_
/ / 7 / /|
\ \_ _/ / \ .
\_//__/|_\_\!_.
|

Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
From: Viatrix
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 14:53 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5
Attachments: unnamed (application/pgp-signature)
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: viatrix-usenetting@purelymail.com (Viatrix)
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 07:53:05 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <20230418075305.0e777c74@lm-Satellite-Pro-C70-B>
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<20230414163259.7f528ebf@lm-Satellite-Pro-C70-B>
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On 2023-04-18T11:02:16+0100
Colin Randall <colin.randall2@gmail.com> wrote:

> a possible workaround? shall test
That workaround looks correctly aligned on my client.
I will note that line wasn't the only one which looked misaligned; so
do lines 64-65 (top 2 lines of serif "Welcome to ASCII art"), and
104-116 (entries 10 and up on the table of contents)

Attachments: unnamed (application/pgp-signature)
Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
From: Colin Randall
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Organization: none whatsoever
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 20:43 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: colin.randall2@gmail.com (Colin Randall)
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 21:43:08 +0100
Organization: none whatsoever
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <u1mvct$3m1a7$1@dont-email.me>
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<20230414163259.7f528ebf@lm-Satellite-Pro-C70-B>
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<u1lpr8$3g4pv$1@dont-email.me>
<20230418075305.0e777c74@lm-Satellite-Pro-C70-B>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 20:43:09 -0000 (UTC)
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Thunderbird/102.10.0
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In-Reply-To: <20230418075305.0e777c74@lm-Satellite-Pro-C70-B>
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On 18/04/2023 15:53, Viatrix wrote:
> On 2023-04-18T11:02:16+0100
> Colin Randall <colin.randall2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> a possible workaround? shall test
> That workaround looks correctly aligned on my client.
> I will note that line wasn't the only one which looked misaligned; so
> do lines 64-65 (top 2 lines of serif "Welcome to ASCII art"), and
> 104-116 (entries 10 and up on the table of contents)

indeed ... same issue
... infact any(all) line(s) which start with a space
is(are) getting another(additional) space char inserted
during google-groups text to html translation library

[another (whitespace) test]

o <- zero leading spaces
o <- one leading space
o <- two leading spaces

--
.
._!__ __ __
/ _\/_ |_ \!_
/ / 7 / /|
\ \_ _/ / \ .
\_//__/|_\_\!_.
|

Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
From: Viatrix
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 21:27 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Attachments: unnamed (application/pgp-signature)
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: viatrix-usenetting@purelymail.com (Viatrix)
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 14:27:29 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <20230418142729.17567fa2@lm-Satellite-Pro-C70-B>
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<20230414163259.7f528ebf@lm-Satellite-Pro-C70-B>
<u1lnd3$3fftd$1@dont-email.me>
<a7b84722-ba92-42c9-bfbe-01445a125575n@googlegroups.com>
<u1lpr8$3g4pv$1@dont-email.me>
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On 2023-04-18T21:43:08+0100
Colin Randall <colin.randall2@gmail.com> wrote:

> ... infact any(all) line(s) which start with a space
> is(are) getting another(additional) space char inserted
> during google-groups text to html translation library

ahh I see; I thought single-leading-spaces were being *elided* but
spaces being *inserted* as you describe would also be consistent with
the results shown. Your whitespace test does confirm I'm seeing added
spaces, not removed spaces.

Is the said google-groups translation library being used on messages
when they're sent from Google Groups? I can see the inserted spaces on
your message both in and out of Google Groups.

Attachments: unnamed (application/pgp-signature)
Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
From: Viatrix
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 21:37 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Attachments: unnamed (application/pgp-signature)
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: viatrix-usenetting@purelymail.com (Viatrix)
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 14:37:11 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 31
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On 2023-04-18T14:27:29-0700
Viatrix <viatrix-usenetting@purelymail.com> wrote:

> Is the said google-groups translation library being used on messages
> when they're sent from Google Groups?
Actually, I realize every message of Colin's on which I see the inserted
whitespace was sent from Thunderbird. Could Thunderbird be inserting
the spaces?

Attachments: unnamed (application/pgp-signature)
Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
From: Viatrix
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 22:01 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Attachments: unnamed (application/pgp-signature)
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: viatrix-usenetting@purelymail.com (Viatrix)
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 15:01:49 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <20230418150149.7493e8f8@lm-Satellite-Pro-C70-B>
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Ah! Colin, I think I've figured out why your mails had spaces inserted!
It's because they have the Format=Flowed MIME parameter. Thunderbird
is inserting the spaces as specified in RFC 3676, section 4.4, but my
client (and presumably Google Groups) doesn't handle Format=Flowed and
is thus not removing the spaces.

Attachments: unnamed (application/pgp-signature)
Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
From: Viatrix
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 22:19 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Attachments: unnamed (application/pgp-signature)
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: viatrix-usenetting@purelymail.com (Viatrix)
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 15:19:42 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <20230418151942.2710db42@lm-Satellite-Pro-C70-B>
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<a7b84722-ba92-42c9-bfbe-01445a125575n@googlegroups.com>
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<20230418075305.0e777c74@lm-Satellite-Pro-C70-B>
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<20230418142729.17567fa2@lm-Satellite-Pro-C70-B>
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Colin, can you try changing the following Thunderbird preference and
re-sending your whitespace test? I'm told this is the Thunderbird
setting for disabling Format=Flowed in sent messages.

Open the Config Editor and set mailnews.send_plaintext_flowed to false.

Attachments: unnamed (application/pgp-signature)
Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
From: Colin Randall
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Organization: none whatsoever
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 15:11 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: colin.randall2@gmail.com (Colin Randall)
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 16:11:23 +0100
Organization: none whatsoever
Lines: 24
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References: <u1cj4b$1mt69$1@dont-email.me>
<20230414163259.7f528ebf@lm-Satellite-Pro-C70-B>
<u1lnd3$3fftd$1@dont-email.me>
<a7b84722-ba92-42c9-bfbe-01445a125575n@googlegroups.com>
<u1lpr8$3g4pv$1@dont-email.me>
<20230418075305.0e777c74@lm-Satellite-Pro-C70-B>
<u1mvct$3m1a7$1@dont-email.me>
<20230418142729.17567fa2@lm-Satellite-Pro-C70-B>
<20230418143711.5addbe9c@lm-Satellite-Pro-C70-B>
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On 18/04/2023 23:19, Viatrix wrote:
> Colin, can you try changing the following Thunderbird preference and
> re-sending your whitespace test? I'm told this is the Thunderbird
> setting for disabling Format=Flowed in sent messages.
>
> Open the Config Editor and set mailnews.send_plaintext_flowed to false.
ok .. done that (never noticed the issues before)

[yet another (whitespace) test] using Thunderbird

o <- zero leading spaces
o <- one leading space
o <- two leading spaces

--
.
._!__ __ __
/ _\/_ |_ \!_
/ / 7 / /|
\ \_ _/ / \ .
\_//__/|_\_\!_.
|

Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
From: colin randall
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 15:20 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
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Thu, 20 Apr 2023 08:20:11 -0700 (PDT)
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o20-20020a81ef14000000b00555a687e151mr4097887ywm.3.1682004011486; Thu, 20 Apr
2023 08:20:11 -0700 (PDT)
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Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 08:20:11 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <9a14662b-14ab-3cbe-ffe2-f6830b8cf5a4@gmail.com>
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<u1lnd3$3fftd$1@dont-email.me> <a7b84722-ba92-42c9-bfbe-01445a125575n@googlegroups.com>
<u1lpr8$3g4pv$1@dont-email.me> <20230418075305.0e777c74@lm-Satellite-Pro-C70-B>
<u1mvct$3m1a7$1@dont-email.me> <20230418142729.17567fa2@lm-Satellite-Pro-C70-B>
<20230418143711.5addbe9c@lm-Satellite-Pro-C70-B> <20230418150149.7493e8f8@lm-Satellite-Pro-C70-B>
<20230418151942.2710db42@lm-Satellite-Pro-C70-B> <9a14662b-14ab-3cbe-ffe2-f6830b8cf5a4@gmail.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <ad5e6099-7d18-4231-a94f-e5540e573db5n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
From: colin.randall2@googlemail.com (colin randall)
Injection-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 15:20:11 +0000
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 4:11:26 PM UTC+1, colin randall wrote:
> On 18/04/2023 23:19, Viatrix wrote:
> > Colin, can you try changing the following Thunderbird preference and
> > re-sending your whitespace test? I'm told this is the Thunderbird
> > setting for disabling Format=Flowed in sent messages.
> >
> > Open the Config Editor and set mailnews.send_plaintext_flowed to false.
> ok .. done that (never noticed the issues before)
>
> [yet another (whitespace) test] using Thunderbird
> o <- zero leading spaces
> o <- one leading space
> o <- two leading spaces
>
>
> --
> .
> ._!__ __ __
> / _\/_ |_ \!_
> / / 7 / /|
> \ \_ _/ / \ .
> \_//__/|_\_\!_.
> |
that still looks messed up
with extra eoln chars
posted thru googlegroups
(altho this webedit ui doesn't show)
--
cjr

Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
From: colin randall
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 15:33 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
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Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 08:33:56 -0700 (PDT)
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<u1lnd3$3fftd$1@dont-email.me> <a7b84722-ba92-42c9-bfbe-01445a125575n@googlegroups.com>
<u1lpr8$3g4pv$1@dont-email.me> <20230418075305.0e777c74@lm-Satellite-Pro-C70-B>
<u1mvct$3m1a7$1@dont-email.me> <20230418142729.17567fa2@lm-Satellite-Pro-C70-B>
<20230418143711.5addbe9c@lm-Satellite-Pro-C70-B> <20230418150149.7493e8f8@lm-Satellite-Pro-C70-B>
<20230418151942.2710db42@lm-Satellite-Pro-C70-B> <9a14662b-14ab-3cbe-ffe2-f6830b8cf5a4@gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <f050e771-74f6-4abd-99fb-034b627c5d73n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
From: colin.randall2@googlemail.com (colin randall)
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[yet another (whitespace) test] using googlegroups
..
o <- zero leading spaces
o <- one leading space
o <- two leading spaces

--
cjr

Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
From: Viatrix
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 15:42 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
Attachments: unnamed (application/pgp-signature)
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: viatrix-usenetting@purelymail.com (Viatrix)
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 08:42:16 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 52
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On 2023-04-20T16:11:23+0100
Colin Randall <colin.randall2@gmail.com> wrote:

> [yet another (whitespace) test] using Thunderbird
>
> o <- zero leading spaces
> o <- one leading space
> o <- two leading spaces

looks correct to me, and looks like your message indeed no longer has
Format=Flowed, so it should display similarly correct for all.
Would the Thunderbird setting in question be worth adding to the FAQ?

On 2023-04-20T08:20:11-0700
colin randall <colin.randall2@googlemail.com> wrote:

> that still looks messed up
> with extra eoln chars
> posted thru googlegroups

I believe that's due to Google Groups adding <BR>s. The uBlock rule in
the FAQ:
> groups.google.com##div[role="region"]>br:style(display:none!important)
is supposed to hide the <BR>s, bit it only affects children of
div[role=region], not all descendants. (no clue why Google Groups is
showing the whitespace text as quoted, but that does make it a
non-child descendant. I believe you can remove the ">" from the rule and
just replace it with whitespace to make it select all <BR> children of
div[role=region].)

Attachments: unnamed (application/pgp-signature)
Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
From: Viatrix
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 15:44 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
Attachments: unnamed (application/pgp-signature)
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: viatrix-usenetting@purelymail.com (Viatrix)
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 08:44:05 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On 2023-04-20T08:42:16-0700
Viatrix <viatrix-usenetting@purelymail.com> wrote:

> I believe you can remove the ">" from the rule and just replace it
> with whitespace to make it select all <BR> children of
> div[role=region].)
I meant descendants this time, not children.

Attachments: unnamed (application/pgp-signature)
Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
From: colin randall
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 16:02 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
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Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
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Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
From: colin.randall2@googlemail.com (colin randall)
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On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 4:44:08 PM UTC+1, Viatrix wrote:
> On 2023-04-20T08:42:16-0700
> Viatrix wrote:
>
> > I believe you can remove the ">" from the rule and just replace it
> > with whitespace to make it select all <BR> children of
> > div[role=region].)
> I meant descendants this time, not children.
yep ... thats sorted it ... now (yet again) looks correct for both
TB & FF ... thanks for your help
i shall now update the faq
(posted from googlegroups)
--
cjr

Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
From: Colin Randall
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Organization: none whatsoever
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 18:12 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: colin.randall2@gmail.com (Colin Randall)
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 19:12:04 +0100
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On 20/04/2023 16:42, Viatrix wrote:
> On 2023-04-20T16:11:23+0100
> Colin Randall <colin.randall2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> [yet another (whitespace) test] using Thunderbird
>>
>> o <- zero leading spaces
>> o <- one leading space
>> o <- two leading spaces
>
> looks correct to me, and looks like your message indeed no longer has
> Format=Flowed, so it should display similarly correct for all.
> Would the Thunderbird setting in question be worth adding to the FAQ?
>
> On 2023-04-20T08:20:11-0700
> colin randall <colin.randall2@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> that still looks messed up
>> with extra eoln chars
>> posted thru googlegroups
>
> I believe that's due to Google Groups adding <BR>s. The uBlock rule in
> the FAQ:
>> groups.google.com##div[role="region"]>br:style(display:none!important)
> is supposed to hide the <BR>s, bit it only affects children of
> div[role=region], not all descendants. (no clue why Google Groups is
> showing the whitespace text as quoted, but that does make it a
> non-child descendant. I believe you can remove the ">" from the rule and
> just replace it with whitespace to make it select all <BR> children of
> div[role=region].)
hi ... i'm curious how you knew (could tell) it had 'flowed format' ?
or is it possible TB has provided this as an option in a recent update ?
i would've expected to have encountered this issue with Mozilla tools
previously
--
.
._!__ __ __
/ _\/_ |_ \!_
/ / 7 / /|
\ \_ _/ / \ .
\_//__/|_\_\!_.
|

Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
From: Viatrix
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 18:55 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
Attachments: unnamed (application/pgp-signature)
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: viatrix-usenetting@purelymail.com (Viatrix)
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 11:55:09 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On 2023-04-20T19:12:04+0100, Colin Randall <colin.randall2@gmail.com>
wrote:

> hi ... i'm curious how you knew (could tell) it had 'flowed format' ?
> or is it possible TB has provided this as an option in a recent
> update ? i would've expected to have encountered this issue with
> Mozilla tools previously

I could tell because my newsreader has an option to view the raw source
of a message, and your messages from Thunderbird had the following
Content-Type header:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

(note the "; format=flowed" at the end)

I think Thunderbird's used Format=Flowed as its default when sending
for decades now, but it often goes unnoticed as Format=Flowed tries to
be as unobtrusive as possible (however the "space-stuffing" was, in
fact, intrusive here). I believe some mailing lists have had problems
with Thunderbird due to its use of Format=Flowed too.

Attachments: unnamed (application/pgp-signature)
Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
From: Colin Randall
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Organization: none whatsoever
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 14:15 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: colin.randall2@gmail.com (Colin Randall)
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Subject: Re: [FAQ] ASCII Art - answers to frequently asked questions
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 15:15:30 +0100
Organization: none whatsoever
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On 20/04/2023 19:55, Viatrix wrote:
> On 2023-04-20T19:12:04+0100, Colin Randall <colin.randall2@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> hi ... i'm curious how you knew (could tell) it had 'flowed format' ?
>> or is it possible TB has provided this as an option in a recent
>> update ? i would've expected to have encountered this issue with
>> Mozilla tools previously
>
> I could tell because my newsreader has an option to view the raw source
> of a message, and your messages from Thunderbird had the following
> Content-Type header:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> (note the "; format=flowed" at the end)
>
> I think Thunderbird's used Format=Flowed as its default when sending
> for decades now, but it often goes unnoticed as Format=Flowed tries to
> be as unobtrusive as possible (however the "space-stuffing" was, in
> fact, intrusive here). I believe some mailing lists have had problems
> with Thunderbird due to its use of Format=Flowed too.
thanks ... reading up about it shows development from around 2005 or
earlier by Qualcomm Eudora for cell-phone usage due to tiny displays

not good for ascii-art

their response:

Sometimes we do things with ASCII text that get munged up by reformatting,
like using ^^^ under a word to emphasize it. f=f can undo that work.

On the other hand, almost no one reads mail with the monospaced font
necessary to understand that kind of ASCII markup – no one with
an f=f-compatible mailer, anyway.

--
.
._!__ __ __
/ _\/_ |_ \!_
/ / 7 / /|
\ \_ _/ / \ .
\_//__/|_\_\!_.
|

1

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