On 2024-12-31, -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
> On 12/29/24 9:04 PM, pothead wrote:
>> On 2024-12-30, -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>>> On 12/29/24 5:37 PM, pothead wrote:
>>>> On 2024-12-29, -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 12/28/24 9:48 PM, pothead wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-12-28, Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:0tiumj5u15mmr0k3h901tj4vuf0pr7ecgt@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -hh is warmer on the scale than old Joe [Biden, POTUS], not to
>>>>>>>>>> disrespect our outgoing
>>>>>>>>>> president, he's a great man.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Adlai Stevenson was well-spoken to the point he was labeled 'egghead'.
>>>>>>>>> Probably apocryphal but the legend goes that after a speech a supporter
>>>>>>>>> said every intelligent person would vote for him. Stevenson said that was
>>>>>>>>> well and good but he needed a majority.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> He ran against Eisenhower in '52 and '56, losing by a landslide each time.
>>>>>>>>> People lapped up Eisenhower's avuncular style and much of the country
>>>>>>>>> looked at him and Mamie as grandparents.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't know if Biden had it in him to be articulate but a successful
>>>>>>>>> politician may not want to present as very erudite.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Biden is WYSIWYG - he's a man who appears as he really is, a guy who
>>>>>>>> isn't a genius but works hard, follows the rules, gets things done.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Biden certainly isn't a genius, 1 Point
>>>>>> He's a moron.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Biden is not a hard worker - 0 Points
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He spent 40% or more of his presidency on vacation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Biden does follow the rules for Democrats - 1 Point
>>>>>>

>>>>>> They are all in lock step.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Biden hasn't gotten anything done - 0 Points.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Biden has made a mess of the USA.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It was a good thing for four years.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It was a miserable four years with most American's ending up worse off.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Exactly.
>>>>>
>>>>> As if its going to now get better, with the Tech Bros pushing for more
>>>>> H1-N's to avoid hiring Americans, and Trump supporting them.
>>>>
>>>> I do not support that however it's still better to have people here legally
>>>> than jumping the fence.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, the structure of the H1-N program is Corporate Welfare
>>> and represss wages of honest American workers. Been that way for far
>>> far too long, because of the corporate money in US politics.
>>
>> I agree.
>> It also allows the corporations to have more control over their employees
>> as they are afraid to make waves lest they get sent home.
>
> The exploitation is particularly rampant in Tech ...
>
> ...including diehard Red GOP contributors: Tesla laid off 2,688 Texas
> employees immediately after having 2,639 H1B visas approved in 2022-23.
>
><https://x.com/merissahansen17/status/1873959674678288516>
>
>
>>>>>>>> expanding on the successes of the administration,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So nothing from her either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What successes?
>>>>>> Everything Biden has done has been a mess.
>>>>>
>>>>> Such as? Note that not everything offers immediate gratification for
>>>>> shortsighted people to see. For example, infrastructure is a multi-year
>>>>> effort which takes time to build because how it was given to the States.
>>>>
>>>> Infrastructure?
>>>> With 7.5 billion and 8 total chargers built?
>>>> How long is it going to take them build the rest?
>>>> 50 years?
>>>
>>> Go bitch to your local State officials for why its been so slow.
>>
>> Elon Musk seems to have no troubles.
>> Maybe the government and Mayor Pete should ask him how he does it?
>
> No, the reasons are already well known: Private Enterprise doesn't have
> to follow the FAR, nor State laws: they're free to sole-source a job
> instead of having to wait for it to go out on competitive bids, etc.
>
> Another is that they often sidestep (or flat out disregard) rules &
> regulations, such as Environmental, Safety, etc.
>
> Plus there's also been more progress on EV chargers than what your news
> source told you:
>
> "There are now 200,000 publicly available EV charging ports in the
> U.S.—more than doubled since the start of the Biden-Harris
> Administration..."
>
> Official statement on 31 DEC 2024 by Secretary Pete Buttigieg
><https://x.com/TimInHonolulu/status/1873537855466979333>
>
> Math: over 100,000 new chargers deployed.
>
>>> Because (and as I said), the money was handed to the States to execute,
>>> adding a layer of lag. This inefficieny is a direct consequence of what
>>> you asked for with the Right's "Small Government" & "Don't Tread on
>>> Me/States Rights!" petulance.
>>
>> The buck stops with Biden.
>> And is anyone keeping track of this money?
>
> Yup! The Fed will spend $100 to keep track of $1. Why? because there's
> historically been graft & fraud perpetrated by corrupt individuals &
> businesses exploiting taxpayer funds. I can recall a local news report
> from a few years ago where a contracting official violated the law to
> give contracts to the vendor who gave him an outboard motor and a free
> home bathroom renovation. I haven't heard if they got jail time.
>
>
>> Sounds like another CA high speed train to nowhere.
>
> Is the Boring Company really doing any better? Some posit that Boring
> only exists to be opposition to government transportation projects, and
> their poor performance to date supports this interpretation.
>
> Plus my understanding of the CA train is that interests who are
> irrevocably opposed to building anything are effectively abusing the
> checks-&-balances to try to stop the project by bankrupting it. We do
> need to keep in mind that laws (eg, Environmental, etc) exist in
> reaction to historical abuses, and the challenge is to develop means to
> prevent the rules themselves from being abused (pendulum swung too far):
> lawyers have gotten way too effective in exploiting 0.1% niche cases
> to "tail wag the dog" illogical outcomes. Likewise, for cherry-picking
> the cases & court venue to shift the odds (East Texas, anyone?).
>
>
>>>> Of course with Pete "pothole" Buttigieg in charge and Biden at the helm,
>>>> that ship sank a long time ago.
>>>
>>> Or look to Baltimore where that bridge got taken down and how fast the
>>> channel got cleared by the Fed when they're free to lead when not mired
>>> down in partisan & State turf war politics.
>>
>> That was an excellent effort but an outlier and not typical.
>
> No, its what's typical when there's not partisan bickering & opposition.
> BTDT.
>
>>>> And then there is his BEAD portion of the bill.
>>>> How's that going?
>>>
>>> Sorry, not familiar with it; please elaborate.
>>
>> Sorry...
>> Broadband Equity Access And Deployment.
>> $42.45 billion to expand high speed Internet.
>> As of September 2024 it has connected 0 people.
>>
>> <https://www.washingtonpolicy.org/publications/detail/the-42-billion-internet-program-that-has-connected-0-people>
>>
>> Both of the above are part of Biden's infrastructure bill and jobs act of 2021.
>
> Except that there's been many government programs which seek to do some
> good such as to bring services to underserved communities which goes
> back to at least the 1930s (Rural Electrification Act). Yes, there's
> beenmore recent ones for telecommunication and where taxpayers have
> gotten ripped off too. Again, corporate welfare/kickbacks.
>
> Likewise, look at the money that got dumped into Louisiana via pork
> projects via the Army Corp of Engineers back in the 1970s: unused canal
> locks named after the politicians who brought home the bacon. Jimmy
> Carter tried to shut these projects down, but lost in Congress.
>
>>>> Border crossings overwhelming states.
>>>
>>> Yet down by 75%.
>>
>> Yea.
>> Typical cherry picking.
>
> Still true though. Plus keep in mind that Trump's only real success
> here was due to CoVid, which gave him emergency powers (now expired).
>
>
>> So Biden allows 10's of millions of illegals into the country mostly unvetted
>> and then during election season he clamps down a bit so it drops.
>> sorry.
>
> While under Trump, how many 10's of millions came in & stayed?
>
> The 'unvetted' could've been solved with 2024 bipartisan legislation ...
> but just who was it who ordered that killed before the election?
>
>> And BTW those are only the ones BP know about.
>> The gottaways raise that number.
>
> When you use CBP encounters reports for your "10's of Millions", many of
> those were promptly deported, making your baseline claim be way off.
>
>> And besides that under Trump were cities like NYC crying for relief from
>> the feds due to mass migration?
>
> Did you notice that NYC's complaints didn't start until the CoVid Relief
> funds ended? Golly, how about that... /s
>
>> Was crime in said cities increasing under Trump?
> > > No bueno.
>
> There was a CoVid surge...but why are you only caring about crime in
> cities? Gosh, it couldn't happen to be because US homicide rates are
> the highest in Southern Red states, not CA or the Northeast:
>
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States#/media/File:Intentional_Homicide_Rate_by_U.S._State.svg>
>
> Plus if you're trying to blame crime on immigrants, the crime data shows
> that that it shifted 50 years ago.
>
> Today, it is known that immigrants are *less* per capita, which means an
> influx into a region has the net effect of lowering the crime rate:
>
><https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/aeri.20230459>
><https://x.com/cremieuxrecueil/status/1873911576232956022>
>
>
>>>> Crime going through the roof due in part. And oh, the FBI revised their figures
>>>> massively upwards.
>
> Nah, the YoY changes are being blown out of proportion, because the
> current rates are literally half (or less) of what they were back in the
> 1990s. Case in point, 1993 to 2022:
>
> Violent Crime/100K: 747 --> 318 = 57% decline
> Property Crimes/100K: 4740 --> 1954 = 59% decline
>
><https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/24/what-the-data-says-about-crime-in-the-us/>
>
> And 2023's report was another 11% lower on homicides:
>
><https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/23/us/murder-crime-rate-fbi.html>
>
>>> Some are moving higher, but are still below recent highs.
>>
>> Tell that to the people of NYC or Chicago or Portland or......
>
> Sure:
>
> "Chicago has so far recorded its lowest number of homicides and
> shootings since 2019, city data shows."
>
> "New York still has seen a roughly 7 percent drop in murders and
> shootings this year, according to New York Police Department data
> through mid-December, compared with the same time period last year."
>
><https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/30/us/murders-decline-crime-concerns.html>
>
>
>>>>> In the meantime, the old DJT tune was "hows your 401k doing?", so how's
>>>>> that been? Well, during Biden's term, the DJIA is up by +38%, NASDAQ
>>>>> +46%, SP500 +55% .. if you didn't do well, be comforted by how Social
>>>>> Programs are slated to be on the chopping block starting in 2025. For
>>>>> everyone else, there were ~6.6M millionaires in the USA when DJT left
>>>>> office, and there's 7.5M today, a +14% increase:
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.cnbc.com/2024/06/07/us-millionaire-population.html>
>>>>>
>>>>> -hh
>>>>
>>>> Yada, yada, yada.
>>>> Step back from your facts and figures and spun up numbers and try asking the people
>>>> how they are doing?
>>>>
>>>> Oh, silly me, that was already done on November 5th and they spoke with their votes.
>>>
>>> Because of years of union busting including falsely named "Right to
>>> Work" laws in Red States which took away workers' rights, which gave
>>> Enterprise even more power over workers wages & compensation...
>>
>> Unions have become ultra corrupt in recent years and they have served their purpose.
>
> Where "in recent years" was when Jimmy Hoffa was still alive.
>
>> They pretend to support the rank and file but the leaders are getting rich
>> on shady deals. Even Trump knows all about that one as he was greasing the
>> correct palms in NYC in order to get his buildings built.
>
> Trump brought in union busters, including illegal immigrants from Poland
>
>
>> It's just part of doing business in NYC. So even when the leaders
>> support a candidate, which is almost always a democrat, the rank and
>> file vote however they want.
>
> Oh, did you completely forget about Rudy Giuliani & Michael Bloomberg?
> They weren't Democrats and served for 5 of the past 8 terms = 62%.
>
>
>>> ...but the GOP's propaganda machine distracted them to "values" instead
>>> of their own financial best interests. Next!
>>
>> ROTFLMAO!
>> GOP propaganda machine?
>
> Yup! As I said, the GOP narrative was "values".
>
>
>> When the democrats have the MSM, virtually all of them, in their back pocket
>> running cover for them.
>
> With the likes of Twitter, just how is MSM still that relevant?
> You don't recall the MAGA brags about the poor MSNBC/CNN ratings?
>
>>>> Groceries and home goods up some 20% plus.
>>>
>>> What would they have cost since 2008 had we had the historical average
>>> of +2.5%/year inflation? Because the brief pop we had to 8% inflation
>>> represents a Reversion to the Mean. Next.
>>
>> 2008 called and they want their copy of Visicalc back :) .
>> Numbers again.
>
> Yup, because they objectively reveal what's actually been happening,
> without emotions.
>
>
>> Hint, we are talking about reality here and even you must notice your grocery cart
>> has fewer items and you pay more for them.
>> Put away the spreadsheet and listen to the people.
>
> Despite your attempt to disregard, the numbers do not lie.
> Case in point, here’s the math:
>
> The historical average rate of US inflation is 2.5%/year.
>
> Had we had an average rate of inflation over the 12 years of 2008-2020,
> total inflation would have been 1.025^12 = 1.345 = +34.5%
>
> But the actual CPI inflation during that time was just +20.2%
>
> That's great to be below average ... but it is not normal. It is also
> what you'd grown used to, and assuming that it is normal in a logical
> fallacy known as "Recency Bias".
>
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recency_bias>
>
> Similarly, 2.5% for 15 years (2008-2023) is +44.8% vs actual 41.5%:
> still ~3 points below average, but the gap closed: this closing is the
> principle of "Reversion to the Mean".
>
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean>
>
> Finally, 16 years is +48.5% for the expected average from 2.5%/year,
> versus +46.5% actual (2008-present): still 2 points below average.
>
> TL;DR: since 2008, we’re still paying less today than if we would have
> had the +2.5%/yr average rate of inflation over the same time period.
>
>
> What this shows is that the anomaly wasn’t a year of high inflation, but
> rather, a decade+ of extremely low inflation rates which biased our
> perceptions of what is normal. Now that things are effectively back to
> normal, some folks are crying because they forgot what normal is like.
>
>
>> Your excuses are exactly why Kamala lost the election.
>> When Biden was still a candidate he tried telling the people that
>> Bidenomics was working but the people, the average people, weren't> falling for it so his advisors told him not to speak about it.
>
> Biden/Harris lost due to the GOP "culture war" values narrative, not
> based on economic policy or economic reality.
>
> You've demonstrated this yourself when you said that you're personally
> fine, yet despite your firsthand knowledge of your own finances, you
> believe that everyone's vastly worse off, and you're somehow flip to not
> being selfish when you claim to be worried more about "the little guy".
>
>
>
>> And more recently the WH Kirby I believe telling the people seeing
>> drones that they are seeing regular aircraft, stars or the like.
>
> I'm at ground zero for that, & "saw some" myself ... he's right.
>
> We're under the flight paths of multiple airports, and nearly all of the
> alleged citizen sightings occurred at night, who finally looked up.
>
> FYI: anyone being nefarious would've turned off their navigation lights.
>
>>>> Wages not keeping pace with inflation.
>>>
>>> Except for how wage increases have exceeded inflation for the past year.
>>> Next.
>>
>> Throughout the Biden presidency and including items like groceries and fuel/utilities
>> which are not in the calculations.
>
> It may depend on which inflation metric you're using to compare: which
> one are you using when you made that claim? (Do you even know?)
>
> FYI, this comparison uses CPI (not CPI-U, not CPI-W), which is the
> broadest and most popular metric:
>
><https://www.statista.com/statistics/1351276/wage-growth-vs-inflation-us/>
>
>
>
>>>> Credit card debt going through the roof.
>>>
>>> Normalize it by GDP growth and get back to us to show that it actually
>>> is "up". Next.
>>
>> You lose again.
>>
>> <https://www.cnbc.com/2024/12/27/credit-card-debt-set-to-hit-record-levels-as-consumer-holiday-spending-rises.html>
>> <https://www.reddit.com/r/MiddleClassFinance/comments/1gg9x8b/more_than_40_of_american_households_rely_on/?rdt=64726>
>
> Nope, neither of those address the point I'm making, and it sounds like
> you don't even understand its basic principle. Let me give you some
> numbers to help you understand:
>
> US 2024 GDP growth is projected to be +2.7% YoY.
>
> Consumer use of debt is some number ... the specific value doesn't matter.
>
> When Consumer use of debt stays the same, because its a percentage of
> their economic activity, the growth in debt use should grow at the same
> rate as the economy ... eg, GDP growth.
>
> Therefore, Consumer use of debt *should* grow by +2.7% in 2024, because
> that's the GDP growth.
>
> To know if Consumer use of debt is actually growing (or shrinking), one
> has to normalize ("divide by") GDP to remove normal GDP growth as a
> factor that's confounding your data.
>
> This is analytics 102.
>
>
>>>> Taxes going up to pay for illegal migrants.
>>>
>>> Except that tax rates haven't changed...
>>
>> State and local.
>
> Where? Name names. Neither my State nor Local income or sales taxe
> rates have increased for years.
>
>
>>> ...and FYI, if the 2017 TCJA gets extended by Trump in 2025, the amount
>>> of economic stimulus from it as a result will be exactly zero. The
>>> reason why is obvious once you think about it for a minute. Next.
>>
>> People in states that have fiscal responsibility did well under his plan.
>> People in fiscally out of control states mostly did not because they lost the
>> SALT deduction.
>
> SALT cap was political, to punitively hurt donor Blue State citizens.
>
> But you're still dodging my point: if Trump extends the 2017 TCJA in
> 2025, the economic impact of doing so will be **zero**.
>
>
>>>> And then of course we have wars in every corner of the planet.
>>>> Thank Joe Biden's weakness for that.
>>>
>>> Nope. You've never been read in on that picture to know what's really
>>> going on.
>>
>> Lol.
>> I see exactly what is going on and Biden's weakness on the world stage is
>> a big part of it.
>
>
> Nah, you completely missed the point in the above, which is a tell.
>
>
>>>> As for me, my 401k has mostly recovered, I am retired, house paid for and
>>>> things are good.
>>>
>>> 2022 was Biden's only down year, and it affected mostly those who were
>>> aggressively invested in the Equities market ... which at your age &
>>> retired, you shouldn't have been to have seen much of any loss.
>>>
>>> Even so, 2022 merely was giving back 2021's gains, and since 2023, & 24
>>> have both been up years at 2x the historical average rate: the net sum
>>> has been roughly a +40% growth over the past four years. Next.
>>>
>>>
>>>> But that's me.
>>>> Kids starting out now don't stand a chance and certainly don't have the same
>>>> opportunities that I've had where hard work, a lucrative career can provide.
>>>
>>> Yup, but then why are you so opposed to the social and infrastructure
>>> programs intended & designed to help them...?
>>
>> Because they are money pits that don't help the right people.
>>
>> Why are migrants in NYC staying in 4 star hotels while homeless veterans
>> are sleeping on the streets?
>
>
> Because we've made progress on Homeless Vets that you're ignoring:
>
> "Veteran homelessness reached an all-time low this year and we also
> exceeded our goal to house 41,000 Veterans by over 16%. Ultimately, we
> housed the largest number of Veterans in a single year since 2019."
>
><https://news.va.gov/137268/how-were-winning-fight-end-veteran-homelessness/>
>
> Plus the practice of using hotel rooms for displaced goes back decades;
> if there's "4 Star" hotels now participating, that's their freedom of
> how to conduct their business, based on their corporate priorities.
>
> And if you're trying to say that cities are overpaying for luxury room,
> you need to provide actual proof of what room rates they're paying
> instead of doing a conveniently vague handwave of innuendo without
> accountability.
>
>
>> Under Joe Biden's "America Last Program"" the country has lost faith in our system.
>> Billions and billions go to Ukraine and other foreign countries and yet FEMA runs out of money
>> for our own citizens.
>
>
> Until you actually follow the Ukraine money instead of listening to MAGA
> Media: most of it is staying in America and funding American jobs, by
> buying new military hardware to replace old stuff being sent over.
>
>> People see that and are disgusted.
>> America first and once we are on an even keel then we can worry about the rest of the world.
>> Peace by strength works.
>> Appeasement does not.
>
> Which is why we're supporting Ukraine instead of appeasing Russia.
>
>>>> And that is why confidence in Biden sits at 34% or so in Gallop's latest poll.
>>>
>>> Polls have become so toxic as to be irrelevant: Biden could wipe out
>>> the entire National Debt tomorrow *and* cure cancer *and* wipe Russia &
>>> China off the map and he still wouldn't crack 50%.
>>
>> Speculation.
>
>
> Nope: one merely needs to look at current polls to see how much bias
> there is today.
>
>
>> I'm not a fan of polls but Biden and Kamala Harris are horrible people and horrible
>> candidates who have lost touch with the people.
>
> Ohh...its been soooo HORRIBLE to have full employment!
> And to have the unwinding without a "hard landing" recession! s
>
>
> But congratulations, you've denied equal opportunity to ten (10) NCAA
> trans-whatever athletes! Likewise, newborn infants are now showing up
> in trashbins in Texas.
>
>
>>>> Joe Biden is a complete disaster and has totally screwed this country into the ground.
>>>
>>> You believe whatever you want ... but you're going to have to first
>>> survive the consequences of what you asked for, for at least the next
>>> four years.
>>
>> Trump will either make things better or worse. Nobody knows however everyone knows
>> what the country has been like under Biden and the democrats and it's not positive which
>> is why the democrats lost in November.
>>
>> Time will tell.
>
> Which is why I've been voting with my investments wallet too, by drawing
> down on Equities to cash in anticipation of Trump screwing up worse.
>
>
> -hh

I think we need to agree to disagree.
While I appreciate your numbers dives you are ignoring the big picture which is
things turned to hell in a handbag under Joe Biden.
Be it foreign policy, economy, social issues, you name it and it's clear that from a
voter perspective things sucked under Biden.
And the polls indicated such.
And the election drove those points home.

I've seen people spin current numbers back to the 50's and 60's where the country was at
it's peak at least as far as quality of life is concerned, and yet reach the conclusion that things
sucked back then.
That may work on paper but it's going to be a hard sell to people who actually remember those days.

Despite stats, things are not good right now at least not for the average person trying to pay rent, mortgage
buy a home, feed the family and so forth and that is a major reason why the democrats lost.
People are sick of this mess.

As I've said many times, can Trump fix it?
I dunno, we could not survive another 4 years of democrats in charge.
If he screws up 2028 is not that far away.
If he succeeds even in part, the democrats are doomed.
And they know it which is why they will use every trick in the book to make things difficult for the Trump
administration. In fact Biden has already started.

Time will tell.

BTW, Happy New Years to you and yours.

--
pothead

"Give a man a fish and you turn him into a Democrat for life"
"Teach a man to fish and he might become a self-sufficient conservative Republican"
"Don't underestimate Joe's ability to fuck things up,"
--- Barack H. Obama