On 9/11/2024 7:52 AM, Ed P wrote:
> Harris called him out and he showed how stupid he is about them

Harris couldn't even balance your pissant flowery print checkbook, old man.

Pipe the fuck down.

In article <vbt1ck$3q8kt$1@dont-email.me>, esp@snet.n says...
>
> Are we willing to pay for those jobs? Remember when Dad worked in the
> factory and made enough to support a family and buy a modest house? We
> can't do that and have cheap appliances.
>
>

Ask those 1000 workers from John Deere if they want a job. In a town
near me there were several factories called Cannon Mills. It employed
thousands of workers in that town. It is gone. I retired from a
company that made raw polyester. It employed about 3000 people. It
went out of business several years ago. Ask any of those workers if
they wanted a job or cheap goods. That company paid very well for
basically unskilled or very low skill jobs. More for the skilled jobs.

Electronics are much cheaper now due to the way they are made.. Years
ago it took a long time to put together a TV or radio by hand. Now a
machine does most of the work. Very few parts in one due to the
intergrated circuits.

On 9/11/2024 10:44 AM, Pierre Delecto wrote:
> On 9/11/2024 12:57 PM, Governor Swill wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2024 08:07:52 -0400, Pierre Delecto
>> <romneysrhinoblaster@delecto.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/10/2024 10:29 PM, Governor Swill wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 10 Sep 2024 08:25:07 -0400, Pierre Delecto
>>>> <romneysrhinoblaster@delecto.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 9/10/2024 8:18 AM, Ed P wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/10/2024 2:46 AM, Bros Johnson wrote:
>>>>>>> Isee a lot of people on Twitter desperately trying to defend the
>>>>>>> insane,
>>>>>>> suicidal tax proposed by Vice President Kamala Harris on “unrealized
>>>>>>> capital gains.”
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It’s been a while since anyone has proposed a dumber idea, so in
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> sense, at least, she is a historic candidate. And those who think
>>>>>>> it’s a
>>>>>>> good idea are historically stupid.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Once I hit the $100million mark I'll consider reading your post.
>>>>>> Otherwise, it does not affect me.
>>>>>
>>>>> You should be because it will affect you.
>>>>
>>>> You figure he's going to be worth 100M some day?
>>>
>>> No. Nor does he need to be. By the way, you're going to be affected too.
>>
>> LOL!  Is there no end of your insane tax fantasies?
>
> A tax on unrealized gains is an insane tax fantasy.
>
>>  I'm long retired and do not have 'unrealized cap gains' nor am I
>> likely too.
>
> The fact that you support government screwing over Americans, so long as
> you get to choose which ones get screwed, says more about your decency,
> of the lack thereof, than anything else.
>
>> The only thing that tax is
>> doing is helping finance my retirement.
>
> How can that be since it hasn't been implemented yet? Pray that it won't
> be either, because it will affect you. If history is any guide, this
> goofy tax proposal will ultimately bite all of us. Supoprters of these
> half-cocked, hairbrained ideas start by claiming they want to target
> only a small, very specific group, so that you’re convinced it won’t
> affect you. But once they get the concept in place, it’s only a matter
> of time before they get their hands into your pockets, too.

SMH. Taxes don't fund retirements. Retirements are already supposed to
be funded and paid for by dedicated payroll tax payments.

We self-employed business owners pay DOUBLE (12.4%) what everyone else
does for the same amount of money upon retirement.

You can tell Swill is full of shit because he doesn't know this.

On 9/11/2024 6:01 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> In article <vbt1ck$3q8kt$1@dont-email.me>, esp@snet.n says...
>>
>> Are we willing to pay for those jobs? Remember when Dad worked in the
>> factory and made enough to support a family and buy a modest house? We
>> can't do that and have cheap appliances.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Ask those 1000 workers from John Deere if they want a job. In a town
> near me there were several factories called Cannon Mills. It employed
> thousands of workers in that town. It is gone. I retired from a
> company that made raw polyester. It employed about 3000 people. It
> went out of business several years ago. Ask any of those workers if
> they wanted a job or cheap goods. That company paid very well for
> basically unskilled or very low skill jobs. More for the skilled jobs.

Wrong question. Ask the farmers if they will pay $$$ more for a US made
John Deere. If yes, the workers keep their jobs, if no, they are gone.
That has happened many times in the past few decades. The consumer
likes cheap goods. What do you suggest we do to convince people to
spend more for the same item?

On Wed, 11 Sep 2024 13:44:51 -0400, Pierre Delecto
<romneysrhinoblaster@delecto.com> wrote:

>> LOL! Is there no end of your insane tax fantasies?
>
>A tax on unrealized gains is an insane tax fantasy.

So is a $1500 tax bill on somebody with a gross income of eight figures.

The GOP platform wants to return us to Drumpf's economy.

Drumpf wants to create an "Iron Dome" over the United States. The estimated
cost is 2.5 trillion which we all know will cost overrun to twice that amount.
In four years trump raised the debt by 8T which is almost as much as Obama did
in EIGHT years and don't forget that Obama inherited a systemic deficit of 1.5
trillion from Bush!

Drumpf's term saw record profits for corporations, only 1/4 of families saw real
wage growth, immigration policy changes did nothing to slow down illegal
immigration, crime was worse under Drumpf even before the pandemic,
manufacturing jobs were gutted by his tariffs which also left American farmers
with crops rotting in the fields that Uncle Sugar had to buy back just to save
the votes.

Drumpf's four trillion dollar cash injection and giveaway to business laid the
foundation for the severe inflation that Biden's fed chair was able to quickly
quash without setting off a recession.

Under Biden all these stats have returned to normal. The economy is growing at
or above 3%, inflation is tamed, unemployment is low, the participation rate is
up, manufacturing is coming back and interest rates are headed back down.

But the GOP wants us to return to the disaster of Drumpf's economy?

--
If Harris is guilty of word salad, Trump is serving word sewer.

#nevertrump

On Wed, 11 Sep 2024 16:39:45 -0400, Ralph Mowery <rmowery42@charter.net> wrote:

>In article <4qi3ejtc3ss62093f33fa5gekg3lp3ghfs@4ax.com>,
>governor.swill@gmail.com says...
>>
>> LOL! Is there no end of your insane tax fantasies? I'm long retired and do not
>> have 'unrealized cap gains' nor am I likely too. The only thing that tax is
>> doing is helping finance my retirement.
>>
>>
>>
>
>So you have no stock, savings account, or an IRA.
>Sounds like you are a true
>democrat living off others taxes.
>
>I am thinking that about 30 to 40 years ago the state I live in . NC,
>had the intangable tax but later it was removed.
>
>I have been retuired for 12 years and have made a good bit in the stock
>market and IRA. Just glad I did not have to give a good portion of it
>to the government for them to give it away.

You must not have done all that great if you didn't have to pay unrealized cap
gains tax.

I've spoken of the shining city all my political life, but I don't know if I
ever quite communicated what I saw when I said it. But in my mind it was a tall,
proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, wind-swept, God-blessed, and
teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free
ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city
walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and
the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.

And how stands the city on this winter night? More prosperous, more secure, and
happier than it was 8 years ago. But more than that: After 200 years, two
centuries, she still stands strong and true on the granite ridge, and her glow
has held steady no matter what storm. And she's still a beacon, still a magnet
for all who must have freedom, for all the pilgrims from all the lost places who
are hurtling through the darkness, toward home. -- Ronald Reagan

--
If Harris is guilty of word salad, Trump is serving word sewer.

#nevertrump

On Wed, 11 Sep 2024 16:42:46 -0400, Ralph Mowery <rmowery42@charter.net> wrote:

>He wants to to put the tariffs on the goods so it will make the
>companies move back to the US to create more jobs.

It won't work.

>It may have
>prevented John Deere from just moving to Mexico to save on labor cost so
>they could make more money. About 1000 jobs just got sucked south.

So?

current unemployment rate is less than 4% and that includes the alleged millions
of border jumpers who are now working and paying taxes.

Q: How many journalists does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A: Three. One to report it as an inspired government program to bring
light to the people, one to report it as a diabolical government plot
to deprive the poor of darkness, and one to win a Pulitzer prize for
reporting that the Electric Company hired a light bulb-assassin to break
the bulb in the first place.

--
If Harris is guilty of word salad, Trump is serving word sewer.

#nevertrump

In article <vbt9kt$3s23e$1@dont-email.me>, esp@snet.n says...
>
> Wrong question. Ask the farmers if they will pay $$$ more for a US made
> John Deere. If yes, the workers keep their jobs, if no, they are gone.
> That has happened many times in the past few decades. The consumer
> likes cheap goods. What do you suggest we do to convince people to
> spend more for the same item?
>
>

Deere is shooting theirselvs in the foot. They have it so the farmers
can not repair their own equiment now.

On Wed, 11 Sep 2024 17:17:09 -0400, Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:

>In the past maybe 30 or so years many jobs have been lost overseas. Can
>we get them back? Yes, but we will have to pay more for the goods.
>I bought my first TV in 1966 and it was made in the US. It has been
>quite a few years since that has happened though some are assembled here.
>
>That first B&W portable was about $150 then and I can get a decent TV
>for the same real dollars today.
>
>Are we willing to pay for those jobs? Remember when Dad worked in the
>factory and made enough to support a family and buy a modest house? We
>can't do that and have cheap appliances.

I recall my dad buying our first color TV in 1966. It was a big, state of the
art, 21 inch Sears Silvertone and had to be installed so the CRT could be
degaussed. It was in a pecan cabinet, didn't have a remote and cost $600,
that's $6000.00 in today's money.

Walmart can sell you a 65 inch flat panel smart TV with built in Roku
multichanel streaming, multiple inputs and wireless for $300, but it's made in
Malaysia.

<https://www.walmart.com/ip/onn-65-Class-4K-UHD-2160P-LED-Roku-Smart-Television-HDR-100012587/476550098?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&wl13=959&gclsrc=aw.ds&adid=22222222277476550098_117755028669_12420145346&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=501107745824&wl4=pla-394283752452&wl5=9194568&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=local&wl12=476550098&veh=sem_LIA&gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw_4S3BhAAEiwA_64YhvlF-53YZ4OV2xzziG41pLzGwMpD5Agaep2gWaCR8by2P66YjY7tGxoCiMkQAvD_BwE>

Now you know why one guy can't support three kids and buy a house.

Conservatives hate change. They detest it, they fear it, they can't avoid it.

--
If Harris is guilty of word salad, Trump is serving word sewer.

#nevertrump

In article <vbt4dg$1g5ob$3@news.mixmin.net>, mort@blanck.com says...
>
> SMH. Taxes don't fund retirements. Retirements are already supposed to
> be funded and paid for by dedicated payroll tax payments.
>
> We self-employed business owners pay DOUBLE (12.4%) what everyone else
> does for the same amount of money upon retirement.
>
> You can tell Swill is full of shit because he doesn't know this.
>
>
>
>

You can call it whatever you want but the social security is just
another form of tax. To start with it was only the working people that
put in money and got money out. Now one does not have to work to get
SS. Workers pay 1/2 and the company pays 1/2. Self employed pay the
full amount becase the same percentage goes to the SS fund.

A worker would be better off if that 12.4% went into a 401k/ira type
account. All that money would be the worker's and not shared with the
non workers.

In article <qnf4ejlu8ibmmld1seivqltgq9voad2fds@4ax.com>,
governor.swill@gmail.com says...
>
> Now you know why one guy can't support three kids and buy a house.
>
>
>

Part of that is the younger people want too much. Those 3 kids have
smart phones. People have almost new cars that take 7 years to pay off
instead of 3 years . Homes are much larger on average so they cost
more. Much nicer too. Internet and cable TV . Lots more things to
spend money onthat were not around years ago. Most homes have AC and
central heat.

On 9/11/2024 10:06 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> In article <qnf4ejlu8ibmmld1seivqltgq9voad2fds@4ax.com>,
> governor.swill@gmail.com says...
>>
>> Now you know why one guy can't support three kids and buy a house.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Part of that is the younger people want too much. Those 3 kids have
> smart phones. People have almost new cars that take 7 years to pay off
> instead of 3 years . Homes are much larger on average so they cost
> more. Much nicer too. Internet and cable TV . Lots more things to
> spend money onthat were not around years ago. Most homes have AC and
> central heat.

That is part of it but other factors come into play.

I was 20 years old and bought my first house in 1966. I had a decent
job, bought a house , had a used car, got married. If you use the CPI
inflation calculator the wage I made in 1966 would be 10X that in 2024,
assuming the same job. I checked with Zillow and that house today would
sell for 18.5X what I paid back them.

Yes, there are the factors you mention,but housing itself is
considerably higher before you add the extra. Near as I can tell,
renting has gone up similar.

Second house I bought in 1981 has also increased more than the CPI index
by an additional 130,000.

The house I bought in late 2018 has increased about $60,000 above the
CPI index

On Wed, 11 Sep 2024 15:08:52 -0700, mort <mort@blanck.com> wrote:

>SMH. Taxes don't fund retirements. Retirements are already supposed to
>be funded and paid for by dedicated payroll tax payments.
>
>We self-employed business owners pay DOUBLE (12.4%) what everyone else
>does for the same amount of money upon retirement.
>
>You can tell Swill is full of shit because he doesn't know this.

Yes, STUPID, I do know that. I work taxes every season. It's called "self
employment tax" and the reason for it is that as both the employer and employee,
you have to pay both contributions. That's why employers pay "payroll tax",
employees pay "social security Tax" and the self employed pay "self employment
tax".

Anything else you'd like to embarrass yourself about?

--
If Harris is guilty of word salad, Trump is serving word sewer.

#nevertrump

On Wed, 11 Sep 2024 21:57:38 -0400, Ralph Mowery <rmowery42@charter.net> wrote:

>You can call it whatever you want but the social security is just
>another form of tax. To start with it was only the working people that
>put in money and got money out. Now one does not have to work to get
>SS.

What you get from social security is determined by what you put in. Do you know
nothing of how the system actually works?

>Workers pay 1/2 and the company pays 1/2. Self employed pay the
>full amount becase the same percentage goes to the SS fund.
>
>A worker would be better off if that 12.4% went into a 401k/ira type
>account. All that money would be the worker's and not shared with the
>non workers.

And when the market crashes and takes ten years to recover? What will you live
on then?

When you outlive your savings and those investments are spent, what will you
live on?

Social Security is guaranteed for life and is independent of market performance.

--
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#nevertrump

On Wed, 11 Sep 2024 18:01:54 -0400, Ralph Mowery <rmowery42@charter.net> wrote:

>Ask those 1000 workers from John Deere if they want a job. In a town
>near me there were several factories called Cannon Mills. It employed
>thousands of workers in that town. It is gone.

It's gone because Americans didn't want to pay $25 for a bath towel and $10 for
a wash cloth.

--
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#nevertrump

On Wed, 11 Sep 2024 21:12:35 -0400, Ralph Mowery <rmowery42@charter.net> wrote:

>In article <vbt9kt$3s23e$1@dont-email.me>, esp@snet.n says...
>>
>> Wrong question. Ask the farmers if they will pay $$$ more for a US made
>> John Deere. If yes, the workers keep their jobs, if no, they are gone.
>> That has happened many times in the past few decades. The consumer
>> likes cheap goods. What do you suggest we do to convince people to
>> spend more for the same item?
>>
>>
>
>Deere is shooting theirselvs in the foot. They have it so the farmers
>can not repair their own equiment now.

That is not exclusive to Deere. Can you repair your own TV? Laptop? Cellphone?
A different manufacturer's farm tools? Do you know how to pull codes from your
car's computer?

--
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#nevertrump

On Wed, 11 Sep 2024 22:06:25 -0400, Ralph Mowery <rmowery42@charter.net> wrote:

>In article <qnf4ejlu8ibmmld1seivqltgq9voad2fds@4ax.com>,
>governor.swill@gmail.com says...
>>
>> Now you know why one guy can't support three kids and buy a house.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Part of that is the younger people want too much.

BWAAAAAHAHAHA!

>Those 3 kids have
>smart phones. People have almost new cars that take 7 years to pay off
>instead of 3 years .

And they last 15 years instead of 5.

When I was a kid, a car with 50k was about to start breaking down. One of my
uncles bought new every two years and wouldn't keep a car past 30k. In those
days, 100k was junk. Today, 50k is nearly new and getting a quarter million
miles out of a car is common.

> Homes are much larger on average so they cost
>more. Much nicer too. Internet and cable TV . Lots more things to
>spend money onthat were not around years ago. Most homes have AC and
>central heat.

The more things change, the more they stay the same. I can tell you're a
conservative because you abhor change.

--
If Harris is guilty of word salad, Trump is serving word sewer.

#nevertrump

On Wed, 11 Sep 2024 22:41:56 -0400, Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:

>I was 20 years old and bought my first house in 1966. I had a decent
>job, bought a house , had a used car, got married. If you use the CPI
>inflation calculator the wage I made in 1966 would be 10X that in 2024,
>assuming the same job. I checked with Zillow and that house today would
>sell for 18.5X what I paid back them.

Not the same house. Did that house have central a/c? Off street parking? A
garage? "Bonus" room? What kind of kitchen and appliances? How many
bathrooms?

A two bed one bath of today is far and away a better home than a typical two bed
one bath in 1966.

I agree though that housing seems to be exceeding inflation but so have
healthcare and education.

Interestingly, food, clothing and toys have stayed relatively cheap. Housing
and transportation, not so much.

--
If Harris is guilty of word salad, Trump is serving word sewer.

#nevertrump

On 9/12/2024 12:45 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Sep 2024 22:41:56 -0400, Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
>
>> I was 20 years old and bought my first house in 1966. I had a decent
>> job, bought a house , had a used car, got married. If you use the CPI
>> inflation calculator the wage I made in 1966 would be 10X that in 2024,
>> assuming the same job. I checked with Zillow and that house today would
>> sell for 18.5X what I paid back them.
>
> Not the same house. Did that house have central a/c? Off street parking? A
> garage? "Bonus" room? What kind of kitchen and appliances? How many
> bathrooms?

Yes, it is the same house. I made improvements in it during the time we
lived there. New owner may have done some to, they have been in it
since 1981.

That is my point. Wages have gone up with inflation, housing exceeded
it quite a bit. Have you ever used the Zillow website? You can look up
any address and get an approximate value and I did that for my old house.
>

On Thu, 12 Sep 2024 05:58:00 -0400, Tampon Timmy <tampon.timmy@bonus-hole.boy>
wrote:

>Governor Swill wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2024 21:12:35 -0400, Ralph Mowery <rmowery42@charter.net> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <vbt9kt$3s23e$1@dont-email.me>, esp@snet.n says...
>>>>
>>>> Wrong question. Ask the farmers if they will pay $$$ more for a US made
>>>> John Deere. If yes, the workers keep their jobs, if no, they are gone.
>>>> That has happened many times in the past few decades. The consumer
>>>> likes cheap goods. What do you suggest we do to convince people to
>>>> spend more for the same item?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Deere is shooting theirselvs in the foot. They have it so the farmers
>>> can not repair their own equiment now.
>>
>> That is not exclusive to Deere. Can you repair your own TV? Laptop? Cellphone?
>> A different manufacturer's farm tools? Do you know how to pull codes from your
>> car's computer?
>>
>
>True! TVs, cellphones and laptops are disposable toys. Just throw them
>on the pile at the local landfill. However, few people can afford to
>just toss a John Deere.

You don't toss it, you invest in a professional for the repair.

What I meant to convey was that the complexity of modern devices and especially
their integration into 'the Internet of everything' makes everything harder to
work on. I can remember changing plugs and points and being not the least bit
intimidate to rebuild a carburetor. But these days fuel and spark delivery
systems are so complex, I would even attempt it.

--
If Harris is guilty of word salad, Trump is serving word sewer.

#nevertrump

In article <vgq4ejlgibuf2c0revr3vhjtu10rt4s74c@4ax.com>,
governor.swill@gmail.com says...
>
> >You can call it whatever you want but the social security is just
> >another form of tax. To start with it was only the working people that
> >put in money and got money out. Now one does not have to work to get
> >SS.
>
> What you get from social security is determined by what you put in. Do you know
> nothing of how the system actually works?
>
>
>

Do you know that if you are married and your spouse has never worked you
can get your SS and in adition the spouse can get 1/2 of what you are
getting ? Also if the spouse is getting less than 1/2 of what you are
getting she can get her SS raised to 1/2 odf your SS. Like my wife
does.
Say I get $ 1000 per month my wife gets $ 500 per month even if she
never worked.for a total of $ 1500 per month.

On 9/12/2024 9:37 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> In article <vgq4ejlgibuf2c0revr3vhjtu10rt4s74c@4ax.com>,
> governor.swill@gmail.com says...
>>
>>> You can call it whatever you want but the social security is just
>>> another form of tax. To start with it was only the working people that
>>> put in money and got money out. Now one does not have to work to get
>>> SS.
>>
>> What you get from social security is determined by what you put in. Do you know
>> nothing of how the system actually works?
>>
>>
>>
>
> Do you know that if you are married and your spouse has never worked you
> can get your SS and in adition the spouse can get 1/2 of what you are
> getting ? Also if the spouse is getting less than 1/2 of what you are
> getting she can get her SS raised to 1/2 odf your SS. Like my wife
> does.
> Say I get $ 1000 per month my wife gets $ 500 per month even if she
> never worked.for a total of $ 1500 per month.

Yes, that is the way it was set up and we pay for it. When SS was made
into law, if was quite common for only the husband to work and when he
died, the wife would have been destitute without it. Think about it,
what is the name of the program? Social Security. It brought security
to many families.

In article <lpr4ejtgvfubg79n7bpgpr5q4l9quk9hm4@4ax.com>,
governor.swill@gmail.com says...
>
> >Deere is shooting theirselvs in the foot. They have it so the farmers
> >can not repair their own equiment now.
>
> That is not exclusive to Deere. Can you repair your own TV? Laptop? Cellphone?
> A different manufacturer's farm tools? Do you know how to pull codes from your
> car's computer?
>
>
>

I do not have the skill to do most of that. However there are
independent shops that can repair all of the above. Deere has it where
even the independent shops can not work on their equipment.

In article <jtr4ejhgcihis0leq05rrjki3fofb0m7au@4ax.com>,
governor.swill@gmail.com says...
>
> The more things change, the more they stay the same. I can tell you're a
> conservative because you abhor change.
>
>
>
>

I am a conservative. However I am all for change if it is for the
better. I thought the cellphones would be very popular when the first
came out if they got smaller and the cost was so many could afford them.
I have dealt with computers from my first Radio Shack TRS80. Really
liked it when the
tv went digital even though I had to get several new TV sets. I did try
one of the converters while waiting to get the digital sets.

In article <9ni5ejlkn6rltfjti7rt4184gdv57rg7t4@4ax.com>,
NoBody@nowhere.com says...
>
> Tax plans are always stated to be going after "the rich" yet it always
> ends up being on the middle class.
>
>

When the 'very rich' make the rules they leave in enough loop holes to
where it does not affect them.

They will set up foundations and charities and put the family on the
payroll. That keeps the money in the family. Trusts and other things
that the middle class does not know about or can not afford the lawyers
and such to find the loop holes.