The death of several workers of the World Central Kitchen organisation
in Gaza have brought several things into sharper focus.

First, it provides additional evidence for the genocidal intent of the
Israeli government.

The World Central Kitchen was hampering the Israeli war effort by
feeding people that the Israeli government was trying to starve.

By killing 7 workers for World Central Kitchen they persuaded those
who run the organisation to pull out of Gaza.

Mission accomplished.

Secondly, it exposes the deviousness and hypocrisy of Western
governments.

It seems that WCK has pretty close ties to the security establishments
of the UK, and possibly those of the US and other Nato countries as
well.

Israel, with its aim of starving the people of Gaza, didn't want
anyone countering that objective by feeding them, so propagated
rumours about UNRWA employees taking part in the October 7 attacks.
Several Western governments immediately, without waiting for (or even
demanding) verification of these rumours stopped funding UNRWA. This
meant that they were arguably not merely conniving at, but actually
complicit in genocide.

Also, and perhaps more important, it meant that the ruling parties of
those countries might lose the votes of their more humanitarian-minded
supporters in what, in several of the countries involved, was an
election year.

So they came up with the solution of replacing the humanitarian aid of
UNRWA with that of the World Central Kitchen, which worked in close
collaboration with the military and security establishments of its
home countries, and, when in Gaza, worked in close collaboration with
the Israeli military, who were fully informed of their movements, and
therefore found it easy to take them out. For more on this, see here:

<https://www.thecanary.co/global/world-analysis/2024/04/03/world-central-kitchen-solace-global/>

Satellite images suggest that the second vehicle of the convoy picked
up survivors of the first hit, and then was hit itself. The survivors
of the second explosion were picked up by the third vehicle, which was
then hit.

It was no accident.

Thirdly, it exposes the false values of Western Civilization

In the past six months nearly 200 "humanitarian aid" workers have been
killed in Gaza, but until the death of workers of the World Central
Kitchen the Western media barely noticed. Why the sudden concern with
these seven?

It can only be because the WCK workers were citizens of countries in
which the Western media are based, and their lives are therefore
perceived as being more valuable than those of the inhabitants of
Gaza.

For years the Western media had been conducting a propaganda campaign
against the concept that #AllLivesMatter -- see here:

<https://khanya.wordpress.com/2016/07/12/how-anti-racism-became-racist-all-lives-matter/>

and here

<https://khanya.wordpress.com/2015/11/20/whose-lives-matter/>

-- because if you don't believe that all lives matter, then the
question of whose lives you think don't matter becomes quite
important.

And, as Samuel Huntington put it in his book "The Clash of
Civilizations,":

"The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or
values or religion (to which few members of other
civilizations were converted) but rather by its superiority in
applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this
fact; non-Westerners never do".

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> on Thu, 04 Apr 2024 17:39:16 +0200
typed in alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
>The death of several workers of the World Central Kitchen organisation
>in Gaza have brought several things into sharper focus.
>
>First, it provides additional evidence for the genocidal intent of the
>Israeli government.

Only to those who believe that Hamas is merely a resistance
movement, and not the genocidal organization it declares itself to be.
>
>The World Central Kitchen was hampering the Israeli war effort by
>feeding people that the Israeli government was trying to starve.

Only to those who continue to ignore that Hamas has been diverting
aid and materials to their own purposes for the last twenty years.
Such as diverting donated building supplies in order to build military
posts under hospitals, UN funded schools, and mosques. They've dug up
water pipes to make rockets.
>
>By killing 7 workers for World Central Kitchen they persuaded those
>who run the organisation to pull out of Gaza.

Hamas has a long history of using "civilian" vehicles to move
fighters, weapons, and munitions. Too bad for the aid workers, but
after six months of active war they fit the profile of Hamas
reinforcements and logistics.
>
>Mission accomplished.

Ha! Hamas has been starving the residents of Gaza since the
beginning. Or were those food supplies air dropped by the Americans
suppose to have been intended to fill the markets?
>
>Secondly, it exposes the deviousness and hypocrisy of Western
>governments.
>
>It seems that WCK has pretty close ties to the security establishments
>of the UK, and possibly those of the US and other Nato countries as
>well.
>
>Israel, with its aim of starving the people of Gaza, didn't want
>anyone countering that objective by feeding them, so propagated
>rumours about UNRWA employees taking part in the October 7 attacks.
>Several Western governments immediately, without waiting for (or even
>demanding) verification of these rumours stopped funding UNRWA. This
>meant that they were arguably not merely conniving at, but actually
>complicit in genocide.
>
>Also, and perhaps more important, it meant that the ruling parties of
>those countries might lose the votes of their more humanitarian-minded
>supporters in what, in several of the countries involved, was an
>election year.
>
>So they came up with the solution of replacing the humanitarian aid of
>UNRWA with that of the World Central Kitchen, which worked in close
>collaboration with the military and security establishments of its
>home countries, and, when in Gaza, worked in close collaboration with
>the Israeli military, who were fully informed of their movements, and
>therefore found it easy to take them out. For more on this, see here:
>
><https://www.thecanary.co/global/world-analysis/2024/04/03/world-central-kitchen-solace-global/>
>
>Satellite images suggest that the second vehicle of the convoy picked
>up survivors of the first hit, and then was hit itself. The survivors
>of the second explosion were picked up by the third vehicle, which was
>then hit.
>
>It was no accident.

Like I said, when you are following the pattern of a combatant
organization which doesn't abide by western sensibilities, do not be
surprised when you are treated as a hostile force.
>
>Thirdly, it exposes the false values of Western Civilization
>In the past six months nearly 200 "humanitarian aid" workers have been
>killed in Gaza, but until the death of workers of the World Central
>Kitchen the Western media barely noticed. Why the sudden concern with
>these seven?

Same as always: The West is anti-Jewish.

The west still doesn't care that 1700 Jews were tortured, raped
and massacred, and over 200 innocents were taken as slaves in a series
of bloody raids.
>
>It can only be because the WCK workers were citizens of countries in
>which the Western media are based, and their lives are therefore
>perceived as being more valuable than those of the inhabitants of
>Gaza.
>
>For years the Western media had been conducting a propaganda campaign
>against the concept that #AllLivesMatter -- see here:
>
><https://khanya.wordpress.com/2016/07/12/how-anti-racism-became-racist-all-lives-matter/>
>
> and here
>
><https://khanya.wordpress.com/2015/11/20/whose-lives-matter/>
>
>-- because if you don't believe that all lives matter, then the
>question of whose lives you think don't matter becomes quite
>important.
>
>And, as Samuel Huntington put it in his book "The Clash of
>Civilizations,":
>
> "The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or
> values or religion (to which few members of other
> civilizations were converted) but rather by its superiority in
> applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this
> fact; non-Westerners never do".

So of course, now those opposed to the ideas and their heritage of
Western Civilization are applauding those who have not shared those
ideas, and also want to destroy Western Civilization.

The suicide of the West is almost complete. Be prepared to
convert or accept being second class (at best) resident of the
Caliphate.
--
For many "I am spiritual, not religious".seems the short form of
"I retain the option to adjust my beliefs to fit my lifestyle,
nor be constrained by prior statements about what I said I believe."

On Thu, 04 Apr 2024 18:19:24 -0700, pyotr filipivich
<phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> on Thu, 04 Apr 2024 17:39:16 +0200
>typed in alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
>>The World Central Kitchen was hampering the Israeli war effort by
>>feeding people that the Israeli government was trying to starve.
>
> Only to those who continue to ignore that Hamas has been diverting
>aid and materials to their own purposes for the last twenty years.
>Such as diverting donated building supplies in order to build military
>posts under hospitals, UN funded schools, and mosques. They've dug up
>water pipes to make rockets.

Irrelevant Israeli government agitprop meme.

>>By killing 7 workers for World Central Kitchen they persuaded those
>>who run the organisation to pull out of Gaza.
>
> Hamas has a long history of using "civilian" vehicles to move
>fighters, weapons, and munitions. Too bad for the aid workers, but
>after six months of active war they fit the profile of Hamas
>reinforcements and logistics.

Irrelevant Israeli government agitprop meme.

>>Thirdly, it exposes the false values of Western Civilization
>>In the past six months nearly 200 "humanitarian aid" workers have been
>>killed in Gaza, but until the death of workers of the World Central
>>Kitchen the Western media barely noticed. Why the sudden concern with
>>these seven?
>
> Same as always: The West is anti-Jewish.

But extremely pro-Israeli.

> The west still doesn't care that 1700 Jews were tortured, raped
>and massacred, and over 200 innocents were taken as slaves in a series
>of bloody raids.

The West cares a great deal more about them than about the 32000
inhabitants of Gaza who have been murdered by the Israeli government
over the last six months, which of course reflects their disdain for
the idea that #AllLivesMatter

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com

For information about why crossposting is (usually) good, and multiposting (nearly always) bad, see:
http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/unice.htm#xpost

Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> on Mon, 08 Apr 2024 06:00:01 +0200
typed in alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
>On Thu, 04 Apr 2024 18:19:24 -0700, pyotr filipivich
><phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> on Thu, 04 Apr 2024 17:39:16 +0200
>>typed in alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
>>>The World Central Kitchen was hampering the Israeli war effort by
>>>feeding people that the Israeli government was trying to starve.
>>
>> Only to those who continue to ignore that Hamas has been diverting
>>aid and materials to their own purposes for the last twenty years.
>>Such as diverting donated building supplies in order to build military
>>posts under hospitals, UN funded schools, and mosques. They've dug up
>>water pipes to make rockets.
>
>Irrelevant Israeli government agitprop meme.

So those were not Hamas bunkers under those places. So who did
build them there?
>
>
>>>By killing 7 workers for World Central Kitchen they persuaded those
>>>who run the organisation to pull out of Gaza.
>>
>> Hamas has a long history of using "civilian" vehicles to move
>>fighters, weapons, and munitions. Too bad for the aid workers, but
>>after six months of active war they fit the profile of Hamas
>>reinforcements and logistics.
>
>Irrelevant Israeli government agitprop meme.
>
>>>Thirdly, it exposes the false values of Western Civilization
>>>In the past six months nearly 200 "humanitarian aid" workers have been
>>>killed in Gaza, but until the death of workers of the World Central
>>>Kitchen the Western media barely noticed. Why the sudden concern with
>>>these seven?
>>
>> Same as always: The West is anti-Jewish.
>
>But extremely pro-Israeli.

I suppose it depends on what your news sources are.

>
>> The west still doesn't care that 1700 Jews were tortured, raped
>>and massacred, and over 200 innocents were taken as slaves in a series
>>of bloody raids.
>
>The West cares a great deal more about them than about the 32000

https://t.me/MOHMediaGaza/4898

Sorry but the Ministry of Health has admitted that they cannot
document 11,000 of those deaths

>inhabitants of Gaza who have been murdered by the Israeli government
>over the last six months, which of course reflects their disdain for
>the idea that #AllLivesMatter

" All lives matter" - except for the Jews.

You are objectively siding with those who streamed their rapes,
tortures, and murders live for the world to see, who have as their
charter "From the River to the Sea", Palestine will be Judenfrei,
because civilians have been used as human shields by that same
Government in their war against civilization.

The question remains: "Who started the attacks by breaking the latest
cease-fire agreement and killing, kidnapping, and raping innocent
people and what is the proper retaliation to those events when the
terrorists refuse to return hostages?"

--
pyotr filipivich
When did the word "mosque" take on the meaning "store house for weapons"?

On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 19:55:58 -0700, pyotr filipivich
<phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:

>>Irrelevant Israeli government agitprop meme.
>
> So those were not Hamas bunkers under those places. So who did
>build them there?

Not 12000 dead children, that's for sure.

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

On Apr 23, 2024, Steve Hayes wrote
(in article<be0h2j1ok0jj0p2084ai3tj4bv70p9iejn@4ax.com>):

> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 19:55:58 -0700, pyotr filipivich
> <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > > Irrelevant Israeli government agitprop meme.
> >
> > So those were not Hamas bunkers under those places. So who did
> > build them there?
>
> Not 12000 dead children, that's for sure.

Where are the videos of the mass graves?
The coffins?
Or even the bodies?

On Sat, 04 May 2024 22:00:18 -0700, Dr.Who <dr.who@nunur.biz> wrote:

>On Apr 23, 2024, Steve Hayes wrote
>(in article<be0h2j1ok0jj0p2084ai3tj4bv70p9iejn@4ax.com>):
>
>> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 19:55:58 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>> <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > Irrelevant Israeli government agitprop meme.
>> >
>> > So those were not Hamas bunkers under those places. So who did
>> > build them there?
>>
>> Not 12000 dead children, that's for sure.
>
>Where are the videos of the mass graves?
>The coffins?
>Or even the bodies?

Are you serious?

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

On May 5, 2024, Steve Hayes wrote
(in article<n7kg3j14fs8sheaudu1j68qj1mjkprsg78@4ax.com>):

> On Sat, 04 May 2024 22:00:18 -0700, Dr.Who<dr.who@nunur.biz> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 23, 2024, Steve Hayes wrote
> > (in article<be0h2j1ok0jj0p2084ai3tj4bv70p9iejn@4ax.com>):
> >
> > > On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 19:55:58 -0700, pyotr filipivich
> > > <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > Irrelevant Israeli government agitprop meme.
> > > >
> > > > So those were not Hamas bunkers under those places. So who did
> > > > build them there?
> > >
> > > Not 12000 dead children, that's for sure.
> >
> > Where are the videos of the mass graves?
> > The coffins?
> > Or even the bodies?
>
> Are you serious?

Yes, I sure am, you should be as well.

Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> on Wed, 24 Apr 2024 05:52:49 +0200
typed in alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
>On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 19:55:58 -0700, pyotr filipivich
><phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>>Irrelevant Israeli government agitprop meme.
>>
>> So those were not Hamas bunkers under those places. So who did
>>build them there?
>
>Not 12000 dead children, that's for sure.

So you don't know.
The Jews must have dug some tunnels as part of the plot to set
up Hamas, right?

--
For many "I am spiritual, not religious".seems the short form of
"I retain the option to adjust my beliefs to fit my lifestyle,
nor be constrained by prior statements about what I said I believe."

On Tue, 07 May 2024 11:46:03 -0700, Dr.Who <dr.who@nunur.biz> wrote:

>On May 5, 2024, Steve Hayes wrote
>(in article<n7kg3j14fs8sheaudu1j68qj1mjkprsg78@4ax.com>):
>
>> On Sat, 04 May 2024 22:00:18 -0700, Dr.Who<dr.who@nunur.biz> wrote:
>>
>> > On Apr 23, 2024, Steve Hayes wrote
>> > (in article<be0h2j1ok0jj0p2084ai3tj4bv70p9iejn@4ax.com>):
>> >
>> > > On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 19:55:58 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>> > > <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > > Irrelevant Israeli government agitprop meme.
>> > > >
>> > > > So those were not Hamas bunkers under those places. So who did
>> > > > build them there?
>> > >
>> > > Not 12000 dead children, that's for sure.
>> >
>> > Where are the videos of the mass graves?
>> > The coffins?
>> > Or even the bodies?
>>
>> Are you serious?
>
>Yes, I sure am, you should be as well.

Well, it's been all over the TV news, but perhaps you don't get to see
it where you are. Try here for a start:

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/mass-graves-gaza-what-do-we-know-2024-04-25/

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

On Tue, 07 May 2024 19:48:03 -0700, pyotr filipivich
<phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> on Wed, 24 Apr 2024 05:52:49 +0200
>typed in alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
>>On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 19:55:58 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>><phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>Irrelevant Israeli government agitprop meme.
>>>
>>> So those were not Hamas bunkers under those places. So who did
>>>build them there?
>>
>>Not 12000 dead children, that's for sure.
>
> So you don't know.

I don't know whether these tunnels exist, or ever existed outside
Israel agitprop, but if they did, they7 were certainly not du7g by
employees of the World Central Kitchen, not by 12000 ded children.

Do you seriously think that those people deserved to die because
someone claimed that someone else had dug some tunnels?

Do you, or anyone elser, have any evidence that the employees of the
World Central Kitchen had anything to do with your tunnels?

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

On May 7, 2024, Steve Hayes wrote
(in article<nc0m3jpfkhuu7dmv3odes4rnuc7ue4thsf@4ax.com>):

> On Tue, 07 May 2024 11:46:03 -0700, Dr.Who<dr.who@nunur.biz> wrote:
>
> > On May 5, 2024, Steve Hayes wrote
> > (in article<n7kg3j14fs8sheaudu1j68qj1mjkprsg78@4ax.com>):
> >
> > > On Sat, 04 May 2024 22:00:18 -0700, Dr.Who<dr.who@nunur.biz> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Apr 23, 2024, Steve Hayes wrote
> > > > (in article<be0h2j1ok0jj0p2084ai3tj4bv70p9iejn@4ax.com>):
> > > >
> > > > > On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 19:55:58 -0700, pyotr filipivich
> > > > > <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Irrelevant Israeli government agitprop meme.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So those were not Hamas bunkers under those places. So who did
> > > > > > build them there?
> > > > >
> > > > > Not 12000 dead children, that's for sure.
> > > >
> > > > Where are the videos of the mass graves?
> > > > The coffins?
> > > > Or even the bodies?
> > >
> > > Are you serious?
> >
> > Yes, I sure am, you should be as well.
>
> Well, it's been all over the TV news, but perhaps you don't get to see
> it where you are. Try here for a start:
>
> https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/mass-graves-gaza-what-do-we-know-202
> 4-04-25/

No. I did not see that, and I have little trust in their non-verified news.

In any event, you did not read it either, why? It says,... " The discovery of
mass graves at two Gaza hospitals, said by Palestinian authorities to contain
hundreds of bodies, have triggered calls by the U.N. rights chief and others
for an international investigation. "

A far cry from your claim, and also mentioned nothing of children. Were they
dead fighters? Patients and civilians killed by their own misfired rocket?

Given that the Israeli’s notify civilians, warn them ahead of time of what
is to come, via several means, and go out of their way to show them respect,
even in the face of knowledge that most of them support Hamas, Israel should
not hold back when war is declared on them by others.

Just look at what goes on there on your own continent. Where is the cry about
what happens to the young girls, the children, their slaughter and their
rape, as well as enslaved peoples?

Why complain about a people, who many there consider of low regard, when far
worse things happen to those all around you?

The WCK kitchen deaths, while tragic is in fact an example of collateral
damage to those in a war zone. Because of that medics often are killed or
injured and they are aware that this could happen to them for those very
reasons. Sadly, at times wars are necessary and one should not turn the other
cheek in such a situation.

On May 7, 2024, Steve Hayes wrote
(in article<5l0m3j1k45rbht376cn0qp1td7tr748bne@4ax.com>):

> On Tue, 07 May 2024 19:48:03 -0700, pyotr filipivich
> <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> on Wed, 24 Apr 2024 05:52:49 +0200
> > typed in alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
> > > On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 19:55:58 -0700, pyotr filipivich
> > > <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > Irrelevant Israeli government agitprop meme.
> > > >
> > > > So those were not Hamas bunkers under those places. So who did
> > > > build them there?
> > >
> > > Not 12000 dead children, that's for sure.
> >
> > So you don't know.
>
> I don't know whether these tunnels exist, or ever existed outside
> Israel agitprop, but if they did, they7 were certainly not du7g by
> employees of the World Central Kitchen, not by 12000 ded children.
>
> Do you seriously think that those people deserved to die because
> someone claimed that someone else had dug some tunnels?
>
> Do you, or anyone elser, have any evidence that the employees of the
> World Central Kitchen had anything to do with your tunnels?

WOW, sitting here shaking my head. :(

Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> on Wed, 08 May 2024 06:47:39 +0200
typed in alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
>On Tue, 07 May 2024 19:48:03 -0700, pyotr filipivich
><phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> on Wed, 24 Apr 2024 05:52:49 +0200
>>typed in alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
>>>On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 19:55:58 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>>><phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>Irrelevant Israeli government agitprop meme.
>>>>
>>>> So those were not Hamas bunkers under those places. So who did
>>>>build them there?
>>>
>>>Not 12000 dead children, that's for sure.
>>
>> So you don't know.
>
>I don't know whether these tunnels exist, or ever existed outside
>Israel agitprop, but if they did, they7 were certainly not du7g by
>employees of the World Central Kitchen, not by 12000 ded children.
>
>Do you seriously think that those people deserved to die because
>someone claimed that someone else had dug some tunnels?
>
>Do you, or anyone elser, have any evidence that the employees of the
>World Central Kitchen had anything to do with your tunnels?

No, but I do have evidence that you are more concerned about the
non-Jews in an urban combat zone, than for the Jews who have had to
sleep in bunkers because the peace loving Gazans were being framed for
shooting rockets at them.

You're moral compass is broken. Period, end of discussion. You're not
anti-war, you are anti-Israel destroying a terrorist organization.
Which World Central Kitchen was offering material support for.
--
For many "I am spiritual, not religious".seems the short form of
"I retain the option to adjust my beliefs to fit my lifestyle,
nor be constrained by prior statements about what I said I believe."

On Wed, 08 May 2024 16:35:00 -0700, pyotr filipivich
<phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> on Wed, 08 May 2024 06:47:39 +0200
>typed in alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
>>On Tue, 07 May 2024 19:48:03 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>><phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> on Wed, 24 Apr 2024 05:52:49 +0200
>>>typed in alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
>>>>On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 19:55:58 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>>>><phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>Irrelevant Israeli government agitprop meme.
>>>>>
>>>>> So those were not Hamas bunkers under those places. So who did
>>>>>build them there?
>>>>
>>>>Not 12000 dead children, that's for sure.
>>>
>>> So you don't know.
>>
>>I don't know whether these tunnels exist, or ever existed outside
>>Israel agitprop, but if they did, they7 were certainly not du7g by
>>employees of the World Central Kitchen, not by 12000 ded children.
>>
>>Do you seriously think that those people deserved to die because
>>someone claimed that someone else had dug some tunnels?
>>
>>Do you, or anyone elser, have any evidence that the employees of the
>>World Central Kitchen had anything to do with your tunnels?
>
>No, but I do have evidence that you are more concerned about the
>non-Jews in an urban combat zone, than for the Jews who have had to
>sleep in bunkers because the peace loving Gazans were being framed for
>shooting rockets at them.
>
>You're moral compass is broken. Period, end of discussion. You're not
>anti-war, you are anti-Israel destroying a terrorist organization.
>Which World Central Kitchen was offering material support for.

I don’t oppose the butchery in Gaza because I love Hamas or hate Jews
or love Islam or hate America.

I don’t oppose the butchery in Gaza because I’m a lefty or a commie or
an anarchist or an anti-imperialist.

I oppose the butchery in Gaza because I’m not a fucking psychopath.

Opposing Israel’s butchery in Gaza is so obvious, so common sense,
such a bare-minimum, fundamental-level, Being Human 101 position that
if it isn’t immediately self-evident to you after learning the basic
facts, your problem is much, much deeper than whatever ideology or
bias or prejudice you might happen to have. There’s something wrong
with you as a person.

If you support Israel’s butchery in Gaza, you’ve got much bigger
problems than merely not having the correct ist or ism belief system.
You’re just all fucked up inside. Your conditioning has made you into
a generally shitty human being. You have deep and immensely
consequential flaws in your character, and you won’t mature as a
person until you heal and transcend them.

Opposing Israel’s atrocities in Gaza doesn’t make you a good person,
it just makes you a normal person?—?and supporting Israel’s atrocities
in Gaza makes you a bad person. Nobody gets any points for opposing an
active genocide; that’s just the basic, bare-minimum requirement for a
normal human being with a functioning empathy center in their brain.
If you can’t meet that basic, bare-minimum standard, you deserve to be
viewed with suspicion and disdain, and anyone in your personal life
who cares about truth, morality and humanity should seriously reassess
their relationship with you.

Source:
<https://www.caitlinjohnst.one/p/i-oppose-israels-atrocities-in-gaza>

Ad hominem, yes, though not mine. But since you started with the ad
himinem, if the cap fits, wear it.

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Steve: Every place where he wrote "Israel" just replace it with "Gaza"
and vice versa.

You still apparently feel that what Hamas has done, and promises
to do, is of no import, because "Jews Bad." You call everything the
IDF does "genocide" debasing the word.
By calling anything the IDF does "genocide", why should they stop
now?
Disapproval of the world community? After the UN votes to upgrade
Palestinian UN Membership in the midst of this war, what more are they
going to do I Hamas is destroyed?
Fear of a forever War? For your information, the Israelis have
been in an forever war since 1948, have given up territory in an
attempt to gain peace. They even removed all the Jews from the Gaza
territory, leaving many productive industries behind. Which the
peacef loving palestinians promptly destroyed. Hamas won the elections
on a platform of destroying Israel and killing all Jews.

Like I said, for you, everything the IDF does is genocide. Every
thing Hamas does is just one of those things. That western
"humanitarian" organizations have been collaborating with the Hamas
regime doesn't absolve them of complicity in their use as human
shields, just as Hamas has been using "civilians" as human shields.

Your outrage is misdirected.

Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> on Thu, 09 May 2024 06:19:21 +0200
typed in alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
>On Wed, 08 May 2024 16:35:00 -0700, pyotr filipivich
><phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> on Wed, 08 May 2024 06:47:39 +0200
>>typed in alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
>>>On Tue, 07 May 2024 19:48:03 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>>><phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>>Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> on Wed, 24 Apr 2024 05:52:49 +0200
>>>>typed in alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
>>>>>On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 19:55:58 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>>>>><phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>Irrelevant Israeli government agitprop meme.
>>>>>> So those were not Hamas bunkers under those places. So who did
>>>>>>build them there?
>>>>>Not 12000 dead children, that's for sure.
>>>> So you don't know.
>>>I don't know whether these tunnels exist, or ever existed outside
>>>Israel agitprop, but if they did, they7 were certainly not du7g by
>>>employees of the World Central Kitchen, not by 12000 ded children.
>>>
>>>Do you seriously think that those people deserved to die because
>>>someone claimed that someone else had dug some tunnels?
>>>
>>>Do you, or anyone elser, have any evidence that the employees of the
>>>World Central Kitchen had anything to do with your tunnels?
>>
>>No, but I do have evidence that you are more concerned about the
>>non-Jews in an urban combat zone, than for the Jews who have had to
>>sleep in bunkers because the peace loving Gazans were being framed for
>>shooting rockets at them.
>>
>>You're moral compass is broken. Period, end of discussion. You're not
>>anti-war, you are anti-Israel destroying a terrorist organization.
>>Which World Central Kitchen was offering material support for.
>
>I don’t oppose the butchery in Gaza because I love Hamas or hate Jews
>or love Islam or hate America.
>
>I don’t oppose the butchery in Gaza because I’m a lefty or a commie or
>an anarchist or an anti-imperialist.
>
>I oppose the butchery in Gaza because I’m not a fucking psychopath.
>
>Opposing Israel’s butchery in Gaza is so obvious, so common sense,
>such a bare-minimum, fundamental-level, Being Human 101 position that
>if it isn’t immediately self-evident to you after learning the basic
>facts, your problem is much, much deeper than whatever ideology or
>bias or prejudice you might happen to have. There’s something wrong
>with you as a person.
>
>If you support Israel’s butchery in Gaza, you’ve got much bigger
>problems than merely not having the correct ist or ism belief system.
>You’re just all fucked up inside. Your conditioning has made you into
>a generally shitty human being. You have deep and immensely
>consequential flaws in your character, and you won’t mature as a
>person until you heal and transcend them.
>
>Opposing Israel’s atrocities in Gaza doesn’t make you a good person,
>it just makes you a normal person?—?and supporting Israel’s atrocities
>in Gaza makes you a bad person. Nobody gets any points for opposing an
>active genocide; that’s just the basic, bare-minimum requirement for a
>normal human being with a functioning empathy center in their brain.
>If you can’t meet that basic, bare-minimum standard, you deserve to be
>viewed with suspicion and disdain, and anyone in your personal life
>who cares about truth, morality and humanity should seriously reassess
>their relationship with you.
>
>Source:
><https://www.caitlinjohnst.one/p/i-oppose-israels-atrocities-in-gaza>
>
>
>Ad hominem, yes, though not mine. But since you started with the ad
>himinem, if the cap fits, wear it.

You chose sides, do not expect me to bless you for your support of
a terrorist group.

--
For many "I am spiritual, not religious".seems the short form of
"I retain the option to adjust my beliefs to fit my lifestyle,
nor be constrained by prior statements about what I said I believe."

<https://johnalucas6.substack.com/p/what-incentives-does-israel-have?>

It is a substack essay.

TL;DR: There are three reasons why Israel has no incentive to stop
short of total victory:

1. No matter what steps Israel implements to protect civilians they
are accused of genocide.

2. Despite the fact that Hamas started the war, and continues to hold
dozens of civilian hostages, the incentives presented to Israel are
punitive while Hamas receives the promise of more benefits.

3. Lastly, with Hamas stating that they will repeats the October 7th
attacks as many times as necessary why would Israel stop short of
their total destruction?

--
pyotr filipivich
"If once a man indulges himself in Murder, very soon he comes
to think little of Robbing, and from Robbing he comes next to
Drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to Incivility and
Procrastination." T. De Quincy (1785-1859)
_Murder Considered As One of the Fine Arts_(1827)

On Sat, 18 May 2024 14:07:27 -0700, pyotr filipivich
<phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Steve: Every place where he wrote "Israel" just replace it with "Gaza"
>and vice versa.
>
> You still apparently feel that what Hamas has done, and promises
>to do, is of no import, because "Jews Bad."

Wrong.

Hamas has done bad thing, and did bad things on 7 October 2023, but
what they did on one day does not justify the genocide is still going
on right now.

What Hamas has promised to do -- see here --

<https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full>

may be of import in future political negotiations, but it does not
justify the genocide that is going on right now.

> You call everything the
>IDF does "genocide" debasing the word.

No, I do do not call "everything" the IDF does "genocide".

The things that it does that I call genocide are the mass murder it
has been carrying out for the last five months and is still doing
today, and the destruction of health services and educational
institutions, which form part of the legal definition of genocide.
> Like I said, for you, everything the IDF does is genocide.

Your attitude of "If I want your opinion I'll give it to you" seems
rather arrogant.

By all means say what you think, but you are really not qualified to
tell me what I think.

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> on Mon, 20 May 2024 11:52:52 +0200
typed in alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
>On Sat, 18 May 2024 14:07:27 -0700, pyotr filipivich
><phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>Steve: Every place where he wrote "Israel" just replace it with "Gaza"
>>and vice versa.
>>
>> You still apparently feel that what Hamas has done, and promises
>>to do, is of no import, because "Jews Bad."
>
>Wrong.
>
>Hamas has done bad thing, and did bad things on 7 October 2023, but
>what they did on one day does not justify the genocide is still going
>on right now.
So as you are accusing the IDF of genocide or mass murder for
whatever happens, why should they not continue on their mission to
destroy Hamas?
>
>What Hamas has promised to do -- see here --
>
><https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full>
>
>may be of import in future political negotiations, but it does not
>justify the genocide that is going on right now.

And so, because you consider everything the IDF to be Genocide,
and apparently are willing to excuse Hamas actions, you want Israel to
stop defending themselves, while you and the rest of the "west" help
Hamas rebuild so they can commit later atrocities.
>
>> You call everything the
>>IDF does "genocide" debasing the word.
>
>No, I do do not call "everything" the IDF does "genocide".
>
>The things that it does that I call genocide are the mass murder it
>has been carrying out for the last five months and is still doing
>today, and the destruction of health services and educational
>institutions, which form part of the legal definition of genocide.

"mass murder" right.

Most people have no idea what is involved in urban warfare, and
what is euphemistically called "collateral damage".

If the IDF had really wanted to commit mass murder, all they would
have had to do is shut off the power and water, seal the border, and
bomb the cities flat.
>
>> Like I said, for you, everything the IDF does is genocide.
>
>Your attitude of "If I want your opinion I'll give it to you" seems
>rather arrogant.

genocide, mass murder, whatever. Your compassion for Hamas is
showing. Even as you hide behind the fig leaf of "compassion" and
objection to violence, the objective reality is that you would rather
preserve a terrorist organization so that it might commit further
atrocities against Israel.
>
>By all means say what you think, but you are really not qualified to
>tell me what I think.

True enough. But he who says A, says B.

You want the Israelis to keep Hamas alive, despite knowing that
that Hamas intends to conduct more atrocities against Israel.
Despite your claims to compassion, objectively you are on the side
of more atrocities, more blood shed, more forever war, and no peace.
--
For many "I am spiritual, not religious".seems the short form of
"I retain the option to adjust my beliefs to fit my lifestyle,
nor be constrained by prior statements about what I said I believe."

On Mon, 20 May 2024 10:55:29 -0700, pyotr filipivich
<phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> on Mon, 20 May 2024 11:52:52 +0200
>typed in alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
>>On Sat, 18 May 2024 14:07:27 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>><phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Steve: Every place where he wrote "Israel" just replace it with "Gaza"
>>>and vice versa.
>>>
>>> You still apparently feel that what Hamas has done, and promises
>>>to do, is of no import, because "Jews Bad."
>>
>>Wrong.
>>
>>Hamas has done bad thing, and did bad things on 7 October 2023, but
>>what they did on one day does not justify the genocide is still going
>>on right now.
> So as you are accusing the IDF of genocide or mass murder for
>whatever happens, why should they not continue on their mission to
>destroy Hamas?
>>
>>What Hamas has promised to do -- see here --
>>
>><https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full>
>>
>>may be of import in future political negotiations, but it does not
>>justify the genocide that is going on right now.
>
> And so, because you consider everything the IDF to be Genocide,
>and apparently are willing to excuse Hamas actions, you want Israel to
>stop defending themselves, while you and the rest of the "west" help
>Hamas rebuild so they can commit later atrocities.
>>
>>> You call everything the
>>>IDF does "genocide" debasing the word.
>>
>>No, I do do not call "everything" the IDF does "genocide".
>>
>>The things that it does that I call genocide are the mass murder it
>>has been carrying out for the last five months and is still doing
>>today, and the destruction of health services and educational
>>institutions, which form part of the legal definition of genocide.
>
> "mass murder" right.
>
> Most people have no idea what is involved in urban warfare, and
>what is euphemistically called "collateral damage".
>
> If the IDF had really wanted to commit mass murder, all they would
>have had to do is shut off the power and water, seal the border, and
>bomb the cities flat.
>>
>>> Like I said, for you, everything the IDF does is genocide.
>>
>>Your attitude of "If I want your opinion I'll give it to you" seems
>>rather arrogant.
>
> genocide, mass murder, whatever. Your compassion for Hamas is
>showing. Even as you hide behind the fig leaf of "compassion" and
>objection to violence, the objective reality is that you would rather
>preserve a terrorist organization so that it might commit further
>atrocities against Israel.
>>
>>By all means say what you think, but you are really not qualified to
>>tell me what I think.
>
> True enough. But he who says A, says B.
>
> You want the Israelis to keep Hamas alive, despite knowing that
>that Hamas intends to conduct more atrocities against Israel.
> Despite your claims to compassion, objectively you are on the side
>of more atrocities, more blood shed, more forever war, and no peace.

Stop lying.

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

On May 20, 2024, Steve Hayes wrote
(in article<b36m4jttucpd1ub7f4p8l6d3uugqldaor9@4ax.com>):

> On Sat, 18 May 2024 14:07:27 -0700, pyotr filipivich
> <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > Steve: Every place where he wrote "Israel" just replace it with "Gaza"
> > and vice versa.
> >
> > You still apparently feel that what Hamas has done, and promises
> > to do, is of no import, because "Jews Bad."
>
> Wrong.
>
> Hamas has done bad thing, and did bad things on 7 October 2023, but
> what they did on one day does not justify the genocide is still going
> on right now.
>
> What Hamas has promised to do -- see here --
>
> <https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full>
>
> may be of import in future political negotiations, but it does not
> justify the genocide that is going on right now.
>
> > You call everything the
> > IDF does "genocide" debasing the word.
>
> No, I do do not call "everything" the IDF does "genocide".
>
> The things that it does that I call genocide are the mass murder it
> has been carrying out for the last five months and is still doing
> today, and the destruction of health services and educational
> institutions, which form part of the legal definition of genocide.

When both of those services were used as cloaks and shields to cover for the
Hamas terrorits, as as been well proven, and that the Hamas also used the
local citizens as their shields, and the Hamas in concert with the UN taught
the students the ways of Nazism with full co-operation with UN employees as
has also been admitted finally by the UN, the tunnels under those places and
the Hospitals especially so that the Data Centers of the Hamas in the tunnels
was powered by the hospitals, the food from the hospitals fed the Hamas first
before others, half of the medical staffs were Hamas and in fact weapons were
stored in educational facilities as well as the Hospitals, command centers
were in the basements of some hospitals, The Prescriptions for the hostages
of the Hamas were found with their names on the meds, packages unopened, etc.
And I could go on and on in regards to this, but somehow I don’t think you
would accept the reality of what I just said.

I agree basically with pyotr that you are biased, given your past statements
of the last 10 years in regards to things political.

Ask yourself given the meager info you have, if your daughter were one of
their hostages, would you fell comfortable with her stay as a captive?
>
>
> > Like I said, for you, everything the IDF does is genocide.
>
> Your attitude of "If I want your opinion I'll give it to you" seems
> rather arrogant.
>
> By all means say what you think, but you are really not qualified to
> tell me what I think.

On May 8, 2024, Steve Hayes wrote
(in article<icjo3jdnb9jcrfvtcg9igl4l7bcpqb4ve9@4ax.com>):

> On Wed, 08 May 2024 16:35:00 -0700, pyotr filipivich
> <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> on Wed, 08 May 2024 06:47:39 +0200
> > typed in alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
> > > On Tue, 07 May 2024 19:48:03 -0700, pyotr filipivich
> > > <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> on Wed, 24 Apr 2024 05:52:49 +0200
> > > > typed in alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
> > > > > On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 19:55:58 -0700, pyotr filipivich
> > > > > <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Irrelevant Israeli government agitprop meme.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So those were not Hamas bunkers under those places. So who did
> > > > > > build them there?
> > > > >
> > > > > Not 12000 dead children, that's for sure.
> > > >
> > > > So you don't know.
> > >
> > > I don't know whether these tunnels exist, or ever existed outside
> > > Israel agitprop, but if they did, they7 were certainly not du7g by
> > > employees of the World Central Kitchen, not by 12000 ded children.
> > >
> > > Do you seriously think that those people deserved to die because
> > > someone claimed that someone else had dug some tunnels?
> > >
> > > Do you, or anyone elser, have any evidence that the employees of the
> > > World Central Kitchen had anything to do with your tunnels?
> >
> > No, but I do have evidence that you are more concerned about the
> > non-Jews in an urban combat zone, than for the Jews who have had to
> > sleep in bunkers because the peace loving Gazans were being framed for
> > shooting rockets at them.
> >
> > You're moral compass is broken. Period, end of discussion. You're not
> > anti-war, you are anti-Israel destroying a terrorist organization.
> > Which World Central Kitchen was offering material support for.
>
> I don’t oppose the butchery in Gaza because I love Hamas or hate Jews
> or love Islam or hate America.
>
> I don’t oppose the butchery in Gaza because I’m a lefty or a commie or
> an anarchist or an anti-imperialist.
>
> I oppose the butchery in Gaza because I’m not a fucking psychopath.
>
> Opposing Israel’s butchery in Gaza is so obvious, so common sense,
> such a bare-minimum, fundamental-level, Being Human 101 position that
> if it isn’t immediately self-evident to you after learning the basic
> facts, your problem is much, much deeper than whatever ideology or
> bias or prejudice you might happen to have. There’s something wrong
> with you as a person.
>
> If you support Israel’s butchery in Gaza, you’ve got much bigger
> problems than merely not having the correct ist or ism belief system.
> You’re just all fucked up inside. Your conditioning has made you into
> a generally shitty human being. You have deep and immensely
> consequential flaws in your character, and you won’t mature as a
> person until you heal and transcend them.
>
> Opposing Israel’s atrocities in Gaza doesn’t make you a good person,
> it just makes you a normal person?—?and supporting Israel’s atrocities
> in Gaza makes you a bad person. Nobody gets any points for opposing an
> active genocide; that’s just the basic, bare-minimum requirement for a
> normal human being with a functioning empathy center in their brain.
> If you can’t meet that basic, bare-minimum standard, you deserve to be
> viewed with suspicion and disdain, and anyone in your personal life
> who cares about truth, morality and humanity should seriously reassess
> their relationship with you.
>
> Source:
> <https://www.caitlinjohnst.one/p/i-oppose-israels-atrocities-in-gaza>
>
> Ad hominem, yes, though not mine. But since you started with the ad
> himinem, if the cap fits, wear it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4K25tuVYX4

Watch this see if it differs from what you go by.

Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> on Thu, 09 May 2024 06:19:21 +0200
typed in alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:

May God bless and heal.
--
pyotr filipivich
Gott hilfen und wir leben.
(God helping and we live ..)

On 22.05.2024 11:42, Dr.Who wrote:
> When both of those services were used as cloaks and shields to cover for the
> Hamas terrorits, as as been well proven, and that the Hamas also used the
> local citizens as their shields,
This is not a reason to strike civilians.

> and the Hamas in concert with the UN taught the students the ways of Nazism
Big if true.
> with full co-operation with UN employees as
Ok, let's enter your world of crazy. Why would UN do this?
> the tunnels under those places
You mean those that were dug by state of Israel?> the Hospitals especially so that the Data Centers of the Hamas in the tunnels
> was powered by the hospitals, the food from the hospitals fed the Hamas first
> before others
Don't forget the hostage lists in hospitals! Wait, those were just
hand-written calendars? Oops.
> weapons were stored in educational facilities as well as the Hospitals,
> command centers were in the basements of some hospitals, The Prescriptions
> for the hostages of the Hamas were found with their names on the meds,
> packages unopened, etc. And I could go on and on in regards to this, but
> somehow I don’t think you would accept the reality of what I just said.
Because you don't post any proof. There is plenty of proof of IOF atrocities,
many of which is filmed by it's soldiers> Ask yourself given the meager info you have, if your daughter were one of
> their hostages, would you fell comfortable with her stay as a captive?
State of Israel basically doing Beslan school hostage crisis but upscaled.