Dirk Bruere at NeoPax quoted:
>
> Participating in an 8-week mindfulness meditation program appears to
> make measurable changes in brain regions associated with memory, sense
> of self, empathy and stress. In a study that will appear in the January
> 30 issue of Psychiatry Research: Neuroimaging, a team led by
> Massachusetts General Hospital (MGH) researchers report the results of
> their study, the first to document meditation-produced changes over time
> in the brain's grey matter.

Shamanic practices are a definite part of the Asatru heritage. Some
moderns aren't interested in them and some ancients weren't either but
an existing tradition in them is well documented.

Does anyone think meditation was a part of ancient Asatru that got lost
over the centuries after the conversion era?

My reasoning goes like this - Meditation was practiced by the Hindus for
a few thousand years and may have been invented by them. Asatru and
Hindu share ancient historical roots that probably predate the best
guess estimates for the invention of meditation techniques. THere are a
lot of estimates and guesses in that time line. Meditation could well
have been known at the time of the historical divergance. Meditation
could well have been learned during ancient trade. Meditation was
likely learned in the later era of the Varangian guard and the silk
trade route. It might have been native. If it wasn't native it would
have been imported at some point. How far back and how much it was
known matters in this part of the question.

Does anyone think meditation should be a part of modern Asatru either as
a deliberate import or on the theory that it might have been around many
centuries?

My reasoning is weak but it goes like this - Hindu has meditation that
predates exposure to monothiest converting cultures. It's a
heathen/pagan practice without monotheist taint. Ancient Asatru and
Hindu share historical roots so it's a part of our family of heritages.

To me it makes sense to consider adding bits from fellow heathen/pagan
religions that have survived into the modern world, especially the two
that thrive in the modern world (Hindu and Shinto) and doubly especially
the one that we have shared historical roots.

My own personal practice does not help me on the topic. I have
practiced meditation on and off using various methods going back at
least a decade before I converted to Asatru.

Hail Asgard!
Doug Freyburger Linden Oak Kindred

Doug Freyburger wrote:

> When I think about it I tend to favor some sort of goal oriented
> meditation.   "Meditate on this" rather than "meditate to clear the
> mind".  Among the types of meditation I have learned the one that
> explicitly described itself as goal oriented was the most western one -
> Silva Mind Control.  Get into alpha state and use that state to
> visualize better actions, better thoughts, better solutions, better
> ideas.

I prefer the 'just sit' school.

On 27/01/2011 20:59, Doug Freyburger wrote:
> Dirk Bruere at NeoPax quoted:
>>
>> Participating in an 8-week mindfulness meditation program appears to
>> make measurable changes in brain regions associated with memory, sense
>> of self, empathy and stress. In a study that will appear in the January
>> 30 issue of Psychiatry Research: Neuroimaging, a team led by
>> Massachusetts General Hospital (MGH) researchers report the results of
>> their study, the first to document meditation-produced changes over time
>> in the brain's grey matter.
>
> Shamanic practices are a definite part of the Asatru heritage. Some
> moderns aren't interested in them and some ancients weren't either but
> an existing tradition in them is well documented.
>
> Does anyone think meditation was a part of ancient Asatru that got lost
> over the centuries after the conversion era?

Well, we do have a form of mantra meditation - Galdr
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galdr

Maybe that is closer to the original IE roots than what it became in
India. That is, chanting used for spell casting. If you believe in such
things it certainly requires a change in consciousness. I cover some of
this in the first chapter of my book.

> My reasoning goes like this - Meditation was practiced by the Hindus for
> a few thousand years and may have been invented by them. Asatru and
> Hindu share ancient historical roots that probably predate the best
> guess estimates for the invention of meditation techniques. THere are a
> lot of estimates and guesses in that time line. Meditation could well
> have been known at the time of the historical divergance. Meditation
> could well have been learned during ancient trade. Meditation was
> likely learned in the later era of the Varangian guard and the silk
> trade route. It might have been native. If it wasn't native it would
> have been imported at some point. How far back and how much it was
> known matters in this part of the question.

The 6th Century Buddha statue found in Sweden?
http://beachcombing.wordpress.com/2010/08/20/the-buddha-in-viking-sweden/

> Does anyone think meditation should be a part of modern Asatru either as
> a deliberate import or on the theory that it might have been around many
> centuries?

Yes - the question is what kind.
Personally I favor the most difficult type, Zazen - empty mind
meditation. However, I can quite understand someone who might prefer a
more kind of "moving Zen" as applies to repetitive drilling in martial
arts. Galdr should also be emphasized more than it is IMHO. Possibly in
conjunction with Sumbl.

This from a post of mine concerning the Ormswald Sumbl of 2005

"Well, it certainly was a 'bit special'! Despite snow on the ground it
was surprisingly warm that night, and the Sumbl was a great success with
the food, drink and talk going on until bedtime at around 02:00. Sumbl
is the time and place for Oaths, Toasts and Boasts. No Oaths this year,
which was fitting as such are not to be taken lightly, but plenty of
toasts and one rather significant boast. The latter is a statement of
what has been achieved, or what the person claims will be achieved in
the future. In this spirit during the final round of the Sumbl I made
one boast, which was to ask Fiona to marry me (Dirk Bruere). I presented
her with an engagement ring of Tanzanite in white gold with diamonds.
Fortunately she agreed! After this she did some Shamanic
drumming and all of us did a short 'journey' of visualisation, aided by
some Salvia Divinorum. Last year it was Amanita Muscaria. We decided to
try the former, and not the latter, because I wasn't too keen on puking
up a rather pleasant meal this time. Anyway, it seems to have become
something of a 'tradition' to try interesting new herbs and spices at
Winter Sumbl. All in all, a very good end to the old year and start of
the new."

> My reasoning is weak but it goes like this - Hindu has meditation that
> predates exposure to monothiest converting cultures. It's a
> heathen/pagan practice without monotheist taint. Ancient Asatru and
> Hindu share historical roots so it's a part of our family of heritages.
>
> To me it makes sense to consider adding bits from fellow heathen/pagan
> religions that have survived into the modern world, especially the two
> that thrive in the modern world (Hindu and Shinto) and doubly especially
> the one that we have shared historical roots.

I agree.
I also believe that what the Japanese have to offer is a martial
tradition adapted to spiritual ends rather than (as happened in the
West) discarded as soon as guns appeared. We do not need to copy the
details, but the idea and discipline of combining the physical and mental.

> My own personal practice does not help me on the topic. I have
> practiced meditation on and off using various methods going back at
> least a decade before I converted to Asatru.
>
> Hail Asgard!
> Doug Freyburger Linden Oak Kindred
>

--
FFF
Dirk

http://www.neopax.com/technomage/ - My new book - Magick and Technology

Doug Freyburger wrote:

> Does anyone think meditation was a part of ancient Asatru that got lost
> over the centuries after the conversion era?

"None refreshed me ever with food or drink,
I peered right down in the deep;
crying aloud I lifted the Runes
then back I fell from thence."

As you say, I tend to fill in the blanks with Theravada Buddhism. The Buddha
was of the kshatriya varna, and many of the suttas have metaphors of war.
There is more there than the Shambala Sun peace, love, and happiness crowd.

Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
>> Does anyone think meditation was a part of ancient Asatru that got lost
>> over the centuries after the conversion era?
>
> Well, we do have a form of mantra meditation - Galdr
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galdr
>
> Maybe that is closer to the original IE roots than what it became in
> India. That is, chanting used for spell casting. If you believe in such
> things it certainly requires a change in consciousness. I cover some of
> this in the first chapter of my book.

Mindfullness meditation and the other types popular in the east are not
goal oriented. Galdr is goal oriented. The end result of eastern
meditation lacking goals was a weak material culture. It's an
unintended consequence. The end result of goal oriented western ways
lacking meditation was a strong material culture. It's also an
unintended consequence.

> The 6th Century Buddha statue found in Sweden?
> http://beachcombing.wordpress.com/2010/08/20/the-buddha-in-viking-sweden/

Contact was definite. How far back and how much meditation was learned
is a different matter. Consider how our ancients and theirs shared a
symbol of cattle as creative force (Audmula and the Gingungap) and how
they decided to not eat beef while we decided to eat beef. Shared
knowledge can result in opposite conclusions. This is something that
happens a lot in politics as well as religion.

>> Does anyone think meditation should be a part of modern Asatru either as
>> a deliberate import or on the theory that it might have been around many
>> centuries?
>
> Yes - the question is what kind.
> Personally I favor the most difficult type, Zazen - empty mind
> meditation. However, I can quite understand someone who might prefer a
> more kind of "moving Zen" as applies to repetitive drilling in martial
> arts. Galdr should also be emphasized more than it is IMHO. Possibly in
> conjunction with Sumbl.

When I think about it I tend to favor some sort of goal oriented
meditation. "Meditate on this" rather than "meditate to clear the
mind". Among the types of meditation I have learned the one that
explicitly described itself as goal oriented was the most western one -
Silva Mind Control. Get into alpha state and use that state to
visualize better actions, better thoughts, better solutions, better
ideas.

One of the examples in the book was a guy who used visualization to
become the best carpet installer in his metro area and then leverage
that productivity to own his own carpet installing business. That's a
very different result than the eastern approach. I think it is well
correlated with the very different end results in material culture east
to west.

>> My reasoning is weak but it goes like this - Hindu has meditation that
>> predates exposure to monothiest converting cultures. It's a
>> heathen/pagan practice without monotheist taint. Ancient Asatru and
>> Hindu share historical roots so it's a part of our family of heritages.
>>
>> To me it makes sense to consider adding bits from fellow heathen/pagan
>> religions that have survived into the modern world, especially the two
>> that thrive in the modern world (Hindu and Shinto) and doubly especially
>> the one that we have shared historical roots.
>
> I agree.
> I also believe that what the Japanese have to offer is a martial
> tradition adapted to spiritual ends rather than (as happened in the
> West) discarded as soon as guns appeared. We do not need to copy the
> details, but the idea and discipline of combining the physical and mental.

Martial arts as a spiritual practice is something a few long term
students get. Some sort of merging of kindo sword play and tai chi
exercise and goal oriented meditation on doing a better job.

Robert Bowman addressed this aspect as well:

> As you say, I tend to fill in the blanks with Theravada Buddhism. The Buddha
> was of the kshatriya varna, and many of the suttas have metaphors of war.
> There is more there than the Shambala Sun peace, love, and happiness crowd.

Buddhism includes martial arts practice that get short shrift in most
teaching. Even "Zen and the Art of Archery" barely mentions the artial
arts aspect of archery compared to a Samurai school of swordsmanship.