kj wrote:

> ...(or "trotskyite"), has always mystified me. I see it often used
> pejoratively, but I can't figure out from context what exactly the
> insult is.
>
> An example may clarify what I mean. When the term "fascist" is
> used as an insult, I know it stands as shorthand for a constellation
> of traits that includes reactionary authoritarianism, intolerance,
> militarism and cult of force, nationalism and xenophobia. But when
> the term "trotskyist" is used as an insult, I don't know what
> exactly it stands for, even though I'm passably familiar with
> Trotsky's ideas.
>
> Part of the confusion stems from the fact that I don't understand
> why one would choose the insult "trotskyist" instead of simply
> "bolshevik" or "red" or "communist." In fact, I often come across
> this usage in a left-wing context, where one left-wing individual
> disparages another one. It is in this context that the exact
> implications of the insult escape me. It could very well be that
> contrary to the case with "fascist" (which, as I showed above,
> stands for a collection of traits), the insult "trotskyist" means
> nothing more than "partisan of an enemy faction".
>
> I'd appreciate it if someone could clarify the matter for me.
>
> TIA!
>
> kynnjo
>
> --
> NOTE: In my address everything before the first period is backwards;
> and the last period, and everything after it, should be discarded.

Trotsky and Stalin competed for control after the Revolution.
Each with a faction of supporters representing a split in the
Communist Party immediately after the Revolution.

The term has been bastardised and is bogus and means Fanatic, a
connotation exactly opposite of its original historical truth and
meaning in the person of Trotsky who was very mild
mannered and principled, in contrast to the Georgian Stalin and his
thugs.

Trotsky was an intellectual and social philosopher who tried
to implement Lenin's socialist principles relying on
organisation an the will of the people. Stalin relaxed
doing nothing in the knowledge that force and mass murder
would accomplish "his" goals, and he won (of course). He
had Trotsky killed who was already worn out and ill by the
time the end came.

Trotsky's power came from the people. Stalin's power came
from a group of thugs and criminals who cared only for power
and bled the Russian people dry resulting in Hitler's invasion!

A remark Einstein wrote from his apartment in Berlin after
the Revolution, is telling. He stood in his apartment and watched
Trotskyits and Stalinists battling in the streets below.
He remarked: "The Trotskyites have sticks and brooms, the
Stalinists have clubs, knives, and guns."

But your question is very profound. Had the Trotskyites
prevailed or had there been no Stalin it would have changed
world history. The stuggle between Trotsky and Stalin was
pivital. There would have been no Stalin-Hitler pact! Germany
might have gone Communist and there might not have been a
Hitler!!

Jerry

....(or "trotskyite"), has always mystified me. I see it often used
pejoratively, but I can't figure out from context what exactly the
insult is.

An example may clarify what I mean. When the term "fascist" is
used as an insult, I know it stands as shorthand for a constellation
of traits that includes reactionary authoritarianism, intolerance,
militarism and cult of force, nationalism and xenophobia. But when
the term "trotskyist" is used as an insult, I don't know what
exactly it stands for, even though I'm passably familiar with
Trotsky's ideas.

Part of the confusion stems from the fact that I don't understand
why one would choose the insult "trotskyist" instead of simply
"bolshevik" or "red" or "communist." In fact, I often come across
this usage in a left-wing context, where one left-wing individual
disparages another one. It is in this context that the exact
implications of the insult escape me. It could very well be that
contrary to the case with "fascist" (which, as I showed above,
stands for a collection of traits), the insult "trotskyist" means
nothing more than "partisan of an enemy faction".

I'd appreciate it if someone could clarify the matter for me.

TIA!

kynnjo

--
NOTE: In my address everything before the first period is backwards;
and the last period, and everything after it, should be discarded.

kj wrote:
> ...(or "trotskyite"), has always mystified me. I see it often used
> pejoratively, but I can't figure out from context what exactly the
> insult is.
>
> An example may clarify what I mean. When the term "fascist" is
> used as an insult, I know it stands as shorthand for a constellation
> of traits that includes reactionary authoritarianism, intolerance,
> militarism and cult of force, nationalism and xenophobia. But when
> the term "trotskyist" is used as an insult, I don't know what
> exactly it stands for, even though I'm passably familiar with
> Trotsky's ideas.

Trotsky lost a bitter struggle with Stalin for control of
the Soviet government. He was made into the official
scapegoat, along with his followers.

>
> Part of the confusion stems from the fact that I don't understand
> why one would choose the insult "trotskyist" instead of simply
> "bolshevik" or "red" or "communist." In fact, I often come across
> this usage in a left-wing context, where one left-wing individual
> disparages another one. It is in this context that the exact
> implications of the insult escape me. It could very well be that
> contrary to the case with "fascist" (which, as I showed above,
> stands for a collection of traits), the insult "trotskyist" means
> nothing more than "partisan of an enemy faction".
>
> I'd appreciate it if someone could clarify the matter for me.
>
> TIA!
>
> kynnjo
>
>
>

In article <fp9jjj$sp2$1@reader2.panix.com>, Kj wrote:
> Part of the confusion stems from the fact that I don't understand
> why one would choose the insult "trotskyist" instead of simply
> "bolshevik" or "red" or "communist."
As Marvin has said, Trotsky lost a power struggle with Stalin, and was
vilified. Many others were then tarred with the same brush.

The point here is that 'Trotskyite' is an insult from one communist to
another. It carries conotations of 'maverick', 'unreliable'.

These days, many people just pull 'Trotskyite' out of the air, thinking
it means 'an even more fanatical kind of communist' - but it doesn't.

David Craig

"jerry warner" <"warner(nsp)"@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:47C8DCD8.C603F3DB@mchsi.com...
> kj wrote:
>
>> ...(or "trotskyite"), has always mystified me. I see it often used
>> pejoratively, but I can't figure out from context what exactly the
>> insult is.
<snip>
As noted before, the insulting use of Trotskyite is confined to Stalinists.
Their assertion was that Trotsky advocated a "right wing" course for Soviet
Comunism. No one knows what direction Soviet policy would have taken had
Trotsky prevailed. It may be that his failure is evidence that he would not
have used the terroristic methods which Stalin used successfully against him
and against all of Stalin's real or imagined opponents. No non-Stalinist
believed that Trotsky was a threat to Stalin at the time Trotsky was
assassinated.

> Trotsky was an intellectual and social philosopher who tried
> to implement Lenin's socialist principles relying on
> organisation an the will of the people.
<snip>
This presents the most optimistic and favorable view of the possible
consequences of a victory for Trotsky in the contest for power following
Lenin's death. Lenin was certainly no democrat, and Trotsky, no less than
Stalin, claimed to be his legitimate disciple and successor.
--
Gerry
gerryf.gerard@gmail,com
http://www.pbase.com/gfoley9999/
http://www.wilowud.net/
http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/pollock/263/egypt/egypt.html
http://www.geocities.com/gerryf.geo/

On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 18:59:02 -0400, "Gerard M Foley" <gerryf.gerard@gmail.com>
wrote:

>"jerry warner" <"warner(nsp)"@mchsi.com> wrote in message
>news:47C8DCD8.C603F3DB@mchsi.com...
>> kj wrote:
>>
>>> ...(or "trotskyite"), has always mystified me. I see it often used
>>> pejoratively, but I can't figure out from context what exactly the
>>> insult is.
><snip>
>As noted before, the insulting use of Trotskyite is confined to Stalinists.
>Their assertion was that Trotsky advocated a "right wing" course for Soviet
>Comunism. No one knows what direction Soviet policy would have taken had
>Trotsky prevailed. It may be that his failure is evidence that he would not
>have used the terroristic methods which Stalin used successfully against him
>and against all of Stalin's real or imagined opponents. No non-Stalinist
>believed that Trotsky was a threat to Stalin at the time Trotsky was
>assassinated.

Didn't Lenin have Trotsky in mind when he wrote "Left-wing communism -- an
infantile disease"?

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Steve Hayes <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Didn't Lenin have Trotsky in mind when he wrote "Left-wing communism -- an
>infantile disease"?

"LVC: AID" was entirely devoted to
criticism of foreign Communist and
socialist groups.
--
| People say "There's a Stradivarius for sale for a |
| million," and you say "Oh, really? What's wrong |
| with it?" - Yitzhak Perlman |

"Rich Rostrom" <rrostrom.21stcentury@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:rrostrom.21stcentury-DECCF2.18022401042008@news.isp.giganews.com...
> Steve Hayes <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Didn't Lenin have Trotsky in mind when he wrote "Left-wing communism -- an
>>infantile disease"?
>
> "LVC: AID" was entirely devoted to
> criticism of foreign Communist and
> socialist groups.

I thought he had a dig at the Left SR's in that as well.

--
William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.