Sun, 7 Apr 2024 13:31:51 -0000 (UTC): Antonio Marques
<no_email@invalid.invalid> scribeva:

>Stefan Ram <ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>> Antonio Marques <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote or quoted:
>>> Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:
>>>> On 2024-04-05, wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> Es ist ein Schutz, wie eine Haut, bei Birken, Linden, Eichen.
>>>>>> Doch wenn man was bestimmtes isst, mag man's daran nicht leiden.
>>> My broken german read it as
>>> 'but if one that certain (thing) eats, may one it thereat not suffer' =
>>> 'but if one eats this thing, one may not complain about it'.
>>
>> "Mag" above does not mean "may", but "like". The "leiden" at
>> the end is actually redundant. One can say "Ich mag Computer
>> nicht.", or "Ich mag Computer nicht leiden.", or "Ich kann
>> Computer nicht leiden", all meaning "I don't like computers.".
>
>I didn't know about 'mag...leiden'.

I did. Because it also exists in Dutch, as 'mag ... lijden'.
--
Ruud Harmsen, https://rudhar.com

On 2024-04-07, Antonio Marques <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>>>>>> Es ist ein Schutz, wie eine Haut, bei Birken, Linden, Eichen.
>>>>>> Doch wenn man was bestimmtes isst, mag man's daran nicht leiden.
>>
> I didn't know about 'mag...leiden'.

"Leiden mögen", to use the citation form, is an idiomatic expression.
I don't think I actively use it. But yes, it means "to like". I
think today the same thing is mostly expressed with "leiden können"
or simple "mögen".

It's possible that "mögen" in the sense of 'to like' originated as
an ellipsis of "leiden mögen". "Mögen" and more obviously the 1./3.
present singular "mag" is cognate with English "may" and a modal
verb. Modal uses still exist, but the evolution into 'to like' is
remarkable. The past subjunctive "möchte" is in the process of
splitting off into a separate verb as evidenced by a spurious
infinitive "möchten", which parallels the split of "may"/"might"
in English, which are historically present and past of one verb,
but increasingly treated as separate verbs.

(Contrary to English, German modal verbs have non-finite forms.)

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

Ruud Harmsen <rh@rudhar.com> wrote:
> Sun, 7 Apr 2024 13:31:51 -0000 (UTC): Antonio Marques
> <no_email@invalid.invalid> scribeva:
>
>> Stefan Ram <ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>>> Antonio Marques <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote or quoted:
>>>> Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-04-05, wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> Es ist ein Schutz, wie eine Haut, bei Birken, Linden, Eichen.
>>>>>>> Doch wenn man was bestimmtes isst, mag man's daran nicht leiden.
>>>> My broken german read it as
>>>> 'but if one that certain (thing) eats, may one it thereat not suffer' =
>>>> 'but if one eats this thing, one may not complain about it'.
>>>
>>> "Mag" above does not mean "may", but "like". The "leiden" at
>>> the end is actually redundant. One can say "Ich mag Computer
>>> nicht.", or "Ich mag Computer nicht leiden.", or "Ich kann
>>> Computer nicht leiden", all meaning "I don't like computers.".
>>
>> I didn't know about 'mag...leiden'.
>
> I did. Because it also exists in Dutch, as 'mag ... lijden'.

But is the origin 'can ... suffer'?
One can use 'tolerate' for 'like'...

Antonio Marques <no_email@invalid.invalid> schrieb oder zitierte:
>But is the origin 'can ... suffer'?
>One can use 'tolerate' for 'like'...

Yes, "leiden" can mean as much as to endure, and I think that
when you say you can endure someone well, it means that you
like him (in the sense of "to be fond of him").

What I've only just learned from looking it up in the
dictionary of origins is that the verb "leiden" is not
originally etymologically related to the adjective "leid"
and the noun "Leid" derived from that adjective!

Newsgroups: sci.lang

ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) schrieb oder zitierte:
>Yes, "leiden" can mean as much as to endure, and I think that
>when you say you can endure someone well, it means that you
>like him (in the sense of "to be fond of him").

"Ich kann sie /nicht/ (er)leiden." is "I can't endure (stand)
her.", "I'm /repulsed/ by her." The /opposite/ of "Ich kann
sie /nicht/ leiden." must then be, "I am /attracted/ to her".

ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) wrote or quoted:
>"Ich kann sie /nicht/ (er)leiden." is "I can't endure (stand)

Küpper wrote in 1973: "'Leiden' führt über 'erdulden' zur Bedeutung
'sich gefallen lassen'. Seit dem 18. Jh.".

But then he also adds: "ihn mag ich so gut ~ sehen = ihn schätze ich
überhaupt nicht. Hinter 'leiden' wird meist eine kleine Pause gemacht,
wodurch das nachfolgende Wort um so ironischer wirkt. 1950 ff. stud.".

ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) wrote or quoted:
>Newsgroups: sci.lang

Sorry! That should have been "alt.usage.german" I guess.

On 4/6/2024 1:39 PM, Kyonshi wrote:
> On 4/6/2024 3:44 PM, jerryfriedman wrote:
>> Kyonshi wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/5/2024 8:38 PM, HenHanna wrote:
>>>>
>>>> is this an OLD riddle?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         Es ist ein Schutz, wie eine Haut, bei Birken, Linden, Eichen.
>>>>         Doch wenn man was bestimmtes isst, mag man's daran nicht
>>>> leiden.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------- it seems TOO straightforward... (am i missing something?)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> here, [was bestimmtes] is grammatically like [etwas gutes] ???
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _________________
>>>>
>>>>  > Doch wenn man was bestimmtes isst, mag man's daran nicht leiden.
>>>>
>>>>       is this line something that's easy for children?
>>>>                Or is it in a form typically found in Heine or Goethe?
>>
>>> I think you might be rather in the wrong group for this. Wasn't there
>>> a alt.usage.german?
>>
>>> [was bestimmtes] in this case means [something specific] or
>>> [something else]
>>
>>> It is protection like a skin with beech, linden, and oaks trees.
>>> But if you eat something else you won't like it on it.
>>
>>> I guess it makes more sense in German, especially the [was
>>> bestimmtes] sounds more natural than it would in English.
>>> The answer is [Rinde] which can mean both (tree) bark, but also crust
>>> (as on bread) or any stronger outer layer of a food like an orange
>>> peel or a cheese rind.
>>
>>> In fact the word rind is an English word that means exactly the same.
>>> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rind
>>
>> Originally "rind" meant "bark", but I'm not sure I've heard it in that
>> sense since my yonge suster sente me the brere, withoutyn ony rinde.
>> It would sound strange to me now.
>>
>
> I don't think I have ever seen it used as bark in any way outside of
> older texts, but Merriam-Webster and a few other dictionaries disagree.
> Personally I'd have marked it as archaic, but I assume they know more
> than me. Maybe it's still in wide use among arborists.

so Kyonshi knows German... What else do you know?

i'm reminded of Escher prints... entitled Rinde ... or Rind

in English, the pron. is always like [Rynde] right?
[Rye-nd] [Rie-nd]