On Sun, 07 Apr 2024 11:11:51 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 07 Apr 2024 18:23:38 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 07 Apr 2024 09:40:03 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 07 Apr 2024 09:50:50 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 14:48:38 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 22:21:45 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Fri, 05 Apr 2024 10:15:43 -0700, john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Fri, 05 Apr 2024 17:33:12 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Fri, 05 Apr 2024 07:49:30 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On a sunny day (Thu, 4 Apr 2024 11:56:23 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Phil Hobbs
>>>>>>>>><pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>><uum4h6$kmdl$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 01-04-2024 09:01, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:41:18 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
>>>>>>>>>>>> <cd@notformail.com> wrote in <9k7j0jlnbhs8qfg5m17pium0835meean83@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>>>>>>>>>>>>> just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> time which could be better spent doing other things.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>>>>>>>>>>>>> piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>>>>>>>>>>>>> particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>>>>>>>>>>>>> perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I experience.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> CD.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> My 10 MHz Trio dual trace analog scope is from 1979 or there about, I
>>>>>>>>>>>> blew up a channel once myself in the first week
>>>>>>>>>>>> when I accidently touched a booster diode in a TV I was repairing with
>>>>>>>>>>>> it, fixed it locating the problem with the other channel.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Later I cracked the graticule when a soldering station fell on it from
>>>>>>>>>>>> the table (scope stands on the ground)
>>>>>>>>>>>> Made a new graticule.
>>>>>>>>>>>> So, and still working perfectly, OK for all things I build with micros.
>>>>>>>>>>>> For RF to about 1.6 GHz I use RTL_SDR USB sticks and the spectrum analyzer I wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>> and for AC DC measurements I have some made in China digital meters and an analog one.
>>>>>>>>>>>> also a Voltcraft clamp-on meter for current when you do not - or cannot
>>>>>>>>>>>> interrupt things with the meter impedance.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Also have a Voltcraft soldering station.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Blew up one of my digital meters a while back (volts on the resistance
>>>>>>>>>>>> scale) but fixed it again (replaced resistor).
>>>>>>>>>>>> Many other test equipment I designed and build, like amplifiers LF and
>>>>>>>>>>>> RF, SWR meter, radiation meters, gamma spectrometer,
>>>>>>>>>>>> GHz stuff for satelite, transmitters low and very high power, what not,
>>>>>>>>>>>> a frequency converter to use the RTL-SDR sticks and so the spectrum
>>>>>>>>>>>> analyzer on higher and lower frequencies.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Have a SARK100 SWR analyzer too.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Things last forever here...
>>>>>>>>>>>> Scope used on a regular basis..
>>>>>>>>>>>> RTL-SDR stick 24/7.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Digital meters used every day.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Use my self designed lab power supply every day..
>>>>>>>>>>>> What more do you need?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Learn to use the stuff, understand what's important, and that is it
>>>>>>>>>>>> When I started in electronics as a kid I did not even _have_ a meter, still stuff worked.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Build my own scope at some point back then when I somehow got the parts
>>>>>>>>>>>> Not much pocket mony as a kid.
>>>>>>>>>>>> UNDERSTAND your systems, what electrons do.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Showing of with boat anchors may impress people, especially the clueless...
>>>>>>>>>>>> But it does not help you one bit.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Anything with an accuracy better than 1 percent in most cases is just
>>>>>>>>>>>> like apes screaming load trying to impress other apes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Very true about specifically the 1% statement. Sidebar, at an earlier
>>>>>>>>>>> employment, we needed to equip a new lab. Guys wanted GHz scopes. When
>>>>>>>>>>> asked if the ever looked at edges faster than 1ns, no one did.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>It’s true that there are a lot of relatively undemanding jobs in
>>>>>>>>>>electronics. You can get on fine with a 200-MHz scope if all you’re doing
>>>>>>>>>>is PIC and Pi and ham radio and analog TV.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Bull,
>>>>>>>>>I have been using my Trio 10 MHz dual channel for digital TV too
>>>>>>>>>see
>>>>>>>>> https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/
>>>>>>>>>GHz output..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Its is about UNDERSTANDING the systems
>>>>>>>>>You cannot repair a TV set in a short time if you do not UNDERSTAND every part of the circuit and its function, the whole system
>>>>>>>>>neither with a 10 MHz or with a 10 GHz scope.
>>>>>>>>>Fault finding had been my job most of the time, sometimes with 'the show must go on'
>>>>>>>>>or rocket must launch or whatever.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>In an environment a million times more complex than your back-room with boat anchors.
>>>>>>>>>And always delivered.. unlike some that dropped out or broke down.
>>>>>>>>>It is indeed about what is between the ears as you mentioned.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>It’s also true that you can often make do with what you have—the most
>>>>>>>>>>important test instrument is the one between your ears.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>In the before times, doctors were much better with stethoscopes than they
>>>>>>>>>>are now.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>But I’d sure prefer a cardiologist who could use tomography and ultrasound
>>>>>>>>>>over the best stethoscope guy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Only useful if you can read the screens, these days they train AI to find cancer in the scans.....
>>>>>>>>>Yes I worked in an Uni hospital too.
>>>>>>>>>How many people die each year because of medical errors?
>>>>>>>>> https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html
>>>>>>>>>Remember Jim Thompson stating 'they are giving me ... but I had a warning I was not supposed to get that'
>>>>>>>>>Few days later he was dead.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Jim had pancreatic cancer, which is notoriously tricky to diagnose due
>>>>>>>>to the misleading symptoms it gives rise to.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>He talked constantly about wine. That can kill your pancreas.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>There are people who drink bottles per day.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Oh yes, he loved his wine alright. As I recall, you sent him several
>>>>>>cases of the stuff over the years. But no amount of peace offerings
>>>>>>could placate Jim if he felt you'd disrespected him. Anyway, all
>>>>>>credit to you for at least trying to heal the rift, even if it came to
>>>>>>naught.
>>>>>
>>>>>I think I sent him two bottles of Frog's Tooth, not cases.
>>>>>
>>>>>I get the Frog's Tooth free. The vintner is also our sales rep for
>>>>>pick+place gear, and he throws in a bottle or a case with every big
>>>>>order.
>>>>>
>>>>>JT was a little touchy at times (never me!) but we didn't actually
>>>>>have a rift. I think that serious electronics designers always get
>>>>>along pretty well. Circuit design is a sport that we play.
>>>>>
>>>>>I miss JT. He was fun. I often drive on Thompkins Street and it
>>>>>reminds me of him.
>>>>
>>>>I think the passage of time has mellowed your recollections, John.
>>>>Shortly after he died, you called him a crabby old man!
>>>
>>>But he *was* a crabby old man. That's no big deal. He probably would
>>>have enjoyed the description. He died bravely.
>>>
>>>There was
>>>>something about you he clearly didn't much like.
>>>
>>>There was some teasing involved. We got along fine in emails.
>>>
>>>No idea why, since
>>>>you've never come across as anything but well-mannered and helpful as
>>>>far as I can tell.
>>>
>>>I can be crabby too, but that's a common hazard on an unmoderated
>>>public forum.
>>>
>>>>Jim gave me a hell of a rough time when I first arrived here back in
>>>>'96. He didn't suffer fools gladly and boy did he let me know when he
>>>>believed I was one. But that did me a huge favour. He did have a point
>>>>inasmuch as my fundamental electronics knowledge needed a lot of
>>>>remedial attention. So he forced me to sit down and go back through
>>>>all the stuff I should have known before I came here and I became much
>>>>better for it. And when I finally did, he praised me for it. Praise
>>>>from Jim was praise indeed! He was a GIANT of this group and I miss
>>>>him terribly, too.
>>>
>>>He wasn't a bad sort, but I wouldn't call someone a fool because they
>>>don't understand electronics. "Fool" is reserved for people who
>>>presume to expertise that they clearly don't have.
>>
>>Well, you're a great deal more equable than Jim was, despite the BMD,
>>John.
>>I found getting excoriated by Jim gave me the impetus I needed to get
>>off my arse and engage in some serious study on the subject. He did me
>>a huge favour as it was exactly the motivation I needed. I discovered
>>I wasn't as accomplished at electronics as I thought I was. He put me
>>in my place. My strengths lie in other areas and none of us can excel
>>at everything. I'll never be a designer. I'm just a hobbyist and will
>>ever remain one. But that's fine, because all the time I find it a
>>challenge, I'll be hooked. I quickly lose interest in subjects that I
>>find easy to master.
>
>I think that electronics design is instinctive, and only some people
>have those instincts, and they usually acquire them at a very early
>age. It's not fair, for those people who have the instincts, to
>denegerate people who don't. I suck at tennis and music and French.
>
>I'm now mightly confused with switching four tapped inductors around
>with relays. What idiot decided that inductance should increase with
>turns squared?

Probably Maxwell. :)
I have a similar problem with the sig gen I posted about here
recently. Having sorted out the PSU issue, it's working great - except
for..... (there's always a problem of some sort).. The RF power output
level changes with the output power setting - but not in the way it
ought to. I'm pretty sure relays are the problem here, because as I'm
winding up the power out and passing from -144dbm to +13dbm, I can
hear various relays clunking in and out and the power out goes nuts
when certain relays are switched-in. Most probably just dirty contacts
I would guess, but getting at the area concerned to investigate is a
huge PITA. :(