Dhu on Gate wrote:
> On Tue, 04 Jun 2024 10:01:45 +0000, Dhu on Gate wrote:
>
>> There are, of course, some simplish solutions that don't
>> exactly require geo-engineering wherein we modify the
>> planetary surface or some such. I suspect India might
>> be the first to try something out ... like pop some BIG
>> bombs off with a lot of reflective garbage between us
>> and the Sun. This would have short-term dimming and
>> effects that would get blown off by the Solar winds
>> without refreshing.
>>
>> Dhu
>
> I was also recently informed that the addition of sulphur
> to Jet fuel is also being considered as a mechanism to
> reduce solar radiation on the ground.

You read this link?

https://climateviewer.com/geoengineering-with-sulfur-jet-fuel-commercial-aviation/

"2015 - Impacts of aviation fuel sulfur content on climate and human health
Applying high FSCs [fuel sulfur content] at aviation cruise altitudes
combined with ULSJ [ultra-low sulfur jet fuel, aviation biofuel] fuel at
lower altitudes result in reduced aviation-induced mortality and
increased negative RE compared to the baseline aviation scenario. [13]

Translation:
(1) Use biofuels on takeoff. Create less carbon black dust (soot) around
airports, kill less people.
(2) Use high-sulfur jet fuel at altitude. Mimic "Pinatubo effect" to do
stratospheric sulfur injections for solar radiation management purposes."

That would equate to chem-trailing, which is a pejoratively cute way of
saying "contrail with adulterants dispersed aloft".

However:

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-sulfur-used-in-jet-fuel

"Rajan Bhavnani
~10 yrs as an engr at a F100 aerospace corp
It's not “used;” in fact significant efforts are made to remove it from
jet fuel…

Sulfur exists in naturally occurring petroleum; crude oil.

We remove some of that sulfur to make low-sulfur unleaded gasoline.

We remove even more of that sulfur to make jet fuel.

Why? Sulfur is bad for jet engines. In the combustion chamber sulfuric
compounds become sulfuric acid (similar to how some cities used to get
acid rain). That extremely hot acid is then flung against the 1st stage
turbine stator and 1st stage turbine wheel (aka some of the most
expensive parts in a modern turbine engine).

This is also why turbine engines used in areas with extremely high rates
of industrial air pollution (aka India and China) usually have
significantly shorter service lives. The sulfur in the air gets pulled
into the compressor, converted to acid in the combustor, and then eats
the engine alive from the inside out.

The damage caused by sulfur is specific and significant. I used to be
able to tell which aircraft were being used on routes to (or within)
India or China just by looking at the parts."

Or you can go right at it from ground level like these morons tried to:

https://sfist.com/2024/05/14/alameda-puts-halt-to-cloud-brightening-experiment-on-uss-hornet-saying-city-didnt-really-know-about-it/

"A seemingly innovative experiment to spray sea salt into clouds to
fight global warming has been underway in Alameda, but the city just hit
the brakes on it, saying they were not informed of it and don’t
appreciate being used as guinea pigs.

At first glance, it sounds like a neat idea. Researchers from the
University of Washington Marine Cloud Brightening Research Program are
doing some experiments onboard the decommissioned aircraft carrier USS
Hornet in Alameda that they call “small-scale atmospheric sea salt
process studies.” Or in plain English, they’re spraying sea salt
particles into the air, which they think will make the clouds brighter,
which could then in turn ricochet sunlight rays back into space, and
ultimately lower temperatures. It’s a climate change experiment with
nice-sounding intentions of lowering surface temperatures on the planet.

But according to KPIX, the City of Alameda feels the University of
Washington researchers were not exactly forthcoming about their
intentions. Antioch Mayor Marilyn Ezzy Ashcraft told that station that
she was merely told that personnel on the USS Hornet "will be doing
climate change science (misting down the length of our Flight Deck to
study "cloud" patterns)." She and other Alamada officials were rather
alarmed that they’re not just misting down flight decks, they’re
releasing particles into the atmosphere."

So here we sit poised for a glacial period and these idjits want to
increase cloudiness!

It boggles even a weak person's mind.

But wait...there's moar:

https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/12/24/1066041/a-startup-says-its-begun-releasing-particles-into-the-atmosphere-in-an-effort-to-tweak-the-climate/

"A startup claims it has launched weather balloons that may have
released reflective sulfur particles in the stratosphere, potentially
crossing a controversial barrier in the field of solar geoengineering.

Luke Iseman, the cofounder and CEO of Make Sunsets, acknowledges that
the effort is part entrepreneurial and part provocation, an act of
geoengineering activism."

Yeah WTF!!!

> This has the advantage
> of being NOT ENTIRELY INTOLERABLE to the biology of this planet,
> us included:

Wrongo:

https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/ultra-low-sulfur-jet-fuel-on-the-radar/4985.article

"Desulfurising aeroplane fuel would improve public health but could have
unanticipated effects on the climate

The costs and benefits of introducing ultra-low sulfur fuel for aviation
have been weighed up in a new study, and there are unexpected pros and
cons. Modelling showed that desulfurising jet fuel would improve air
quality, preventing between 1000 and 4000 deaths globally each year. It
would cost the global aviation industry $1-4 billion (£0.63-2.5 billion)
per year - ¢2-7 per gallon of jet fuel - which equates to an increase in
the cost of jet fuel of around 2%."

> every time an asteroid hits it cracks the
> mantle on the farside and traps are formed resulting
> in vastly elevated atmospheric sulphur and global winter...
>
> Dhu

Volcanism is more prevalent as an earthly release and the leading source
of natural atmospheric sulfur dioxide.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17781307/

"Sulfur dioxide (SO(2)) released by the explosive eruption of Mount
Pinatubo on 15 June 1991 had an impact on climate and stratospheric
ozone. The total mass of SO(2) released was much greater than the amount
dissolved in the magma before the eruption, and thus an additional
source for the excess SO(2) is required. Infrared spectroscopic analyses
of dissolved water and carbon dioxide in glass inclusions from quartz
phenocrysts demonstrate that before eruption the magma contained a
separate, SO(2)-bearing vapor phase. Data for gas emissions from other
volcanoes in subduction-related arcs suggest that preeruptive magmatic
vapor is a major source of the SO(2) that is released during many
volcanic eruptions."

https://eos.org/editor-highlights/the-overlooked-role-of-sulfur-dioxide-emissions-from-volcanoes

"Source: Journal of Geophysical Research: Atmospheres
Even though volcanic emissions are well known for their role in causing
multi-month cooling effects at the top of the atmosphere and the
surface, in some cases there is substantial warming from sulfur dioxide
that can offset the cooling from sulfate particles."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0377027387900515

"The average contribution of SO2 to the atmosphere by volcanoes,
estimated largely by extrapolation from direct measurements of volcanic
SO2, is calculated to be 18.7 Tg per year. Of this, an estimated 6.8 Tg
per year (36%) is from non-erupting degassing volcanoes. Erupting
volcanoes yield an average annual flux estimated to be 11.9 Tg SO2 per
year (64%). The estimated total annual SO2 output is about 23% larger
than the most recent estimate based on direct measurements. Our
calculations suggest that 64% of the total comes from erupting
volcanoes, as compared to 7% in the earlier estimate. Of the total
worldwide annual SO2 flux, 9% is found to be from volcanoes."

On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 10:58:07 -0600, Loran wrote:

>
> Why? Sulfur is bad for jet engines. In the combustion chamber sulfuric
> compounds become sulfuric acid (similar to how some cities used to get
> acid rain). That extremely hot acid is then flung against the 1st stage
> turbine stator and 1st stage turbine wheel (aka some of the most expensive
> parts in a modern turbine engine).
>

They're moving to composite ceramics instead of metals in jet engines,
and anyways there's as much energy in sulphur as in carbon ;-)

Dhu (goodbye, Carbon Monoxide, hello, sulphur dioxide! The air ., ., ., is everywhere!)

--
Je suis Canadien. Ce n'est pas Francais ou Anglais.
C'est une esp`ece de sauvage: ne obliviscaris, vix ea nostra voco;-)
Duncan Patton a Campbell

Dhu on Gate wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 10:58:07 -0600, Loran wrote:
>
>>
>> Why? Sulfur is bad for jet engines. In the combustion chamber sulfuric
>> compounds become sulfuric acid (similar to how some cities used to get
>> acid rain). That extremely hot acid is then flung against the 1st stage
>> turbine stator and 1st stage turbine wheel (aka some of the most expensive
>> parts in a modern turbine engine).
>>
>
> They're moving to composite ceramics instead of metals in jet engines,

The bulk of the commercail aviation fleet is still traditional engines.

> and anyways there's as much energy in sulphur as in carbon ;-)
>
> Dhu (goodbye, Carbon Monoxide, hello, sulphur dioxide! The air ., ., ., is everywhere!)

So2 is bad news bro.

They're going to exacerbate the next ice age (already in progress) and
kill lots of lung tissue off:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27565714/

Inhalation of high concentrations of sulfur dioxide (SO2) affects the
lungs and can be immediately dangerous to life. We examined the
development of acute and long-term effects after exposure of SO2 in
Sprague-Dawley rats, in particular inflammatory responses, airway
hyperresponsiveness (AHR) and lung fibrosis. Animals were subjected to a
single exposure of 2200ppm SO2 during 10min and treated with a single
dose of the anti-inflammatory corticosteroid dexamethasone 1h following
exposure. Exposed rats showed labored breathing, decreased body-weight
and an acute inflammation with neutrophil and macrophage airway
infiltrates 5h post exposure. The acute effects were characterized by
bronchial damage restricted to the larger bronchi with widespread
injured mucosal epithelial lining. Rats displayed hyperreactive airways
24h after exposure as indicated by increased methacholine-induced
respiratory resistance. The inflammatory infiltrates remained in lung
tissue for at least 14 days but at the late time-point the dominating
granulocyte types had changed from neutrophils to eosinophils.

On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 11:12:09 -0600, Loran wrote:

> Dhu on Gate wrote:
>> On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 10:58:07 -0600, Loran wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Why? Sulfur is bad for jet engines. In the combustion chamber sulfuric
>>> compounds become sulfuric acid (similar to how some cities used to get
>>> acid rain). That extremely hot acid is then flung against the 1st
>>> stage turbine stator and 1st stage turbine wheel (aka some of the most
>>> expensive parts in a modern turbine engine).
>>>
>>>
>> They're moving to composite ceramics instead of metals in jet engines,
>
> The bulk of the commercail aviation fleet is still traditional engines.
>
>> and anyways there's as much energy in sulphur as in carbon ;-)
>>
>> Dhu (goodbye, Carbon Monoxide, hello, sulphur dioxide! The air ., ., .,
>> is everywhere!)
>
> So2 is bad news bro.
>
> They're going to exacerbate the next ice age (already in progress) and
> kill lots of lung tissue off:
>
> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27565714/
>
> Inhalation of high concentrations of sulfur dioxide (SO2) affects the
> lungs and can be immediately dangerous to life. We examined the
> development of acute and long-term effects after exposure of SO2 in
> Sprague-Dawley rats, in particular inflammatory responses, airway
> hyperresponsiveness (AHR) and lung fibrosis. Animals were subjected to a
> single exposure of 2200ppm SO2 during 10min and treated with a single
> dose of the anti-inflammatory corticosteroid dexamethasone 1h following
> exposure. Exposed rats showed labored breathing, decreased body-weight
> and an acute inflammation with neutrophil and macrophage airway
> infiltrates 5h post exposure. The acute effects were characterized by
> bronchial damage restricted to the larger bronchi with widespread
> injured mucosal epithelial lining. Rats displayed hyperreactive airways
> 24h after exposure as indicated by increased methacholine-induced
> respiratory resistance. The inflammatory infiltrates remained in lung
> tissue for at least 14 days but at the late time-point the dominating
> granulocyte types had changed from neutrophils to eosinophils.

The quantities needed to effect solar reflection in the UPPER ATMOSPHERE
are _vastly_lower_ than what comes outta Kilauea on a good day.

Dhu

--
Je suis Canadien. Ce n'est pas Francais ou Anglais.
C'est une esp`ece de sauvage: ne obliviscaris, vix ea nostra voco;-)
Duncan Patton a Campbell

On Sun, 16 Jun 2024 02:01:20 -0000 (UTC), Dhu on Gate wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 11:12:09 -0600, Loran wrote:
>
>> Dhu on Gate wrote:
>>> On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 10:58:07 -0600, Loran wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Why? Sulfur is bad for jet engines. In the combustion chamber
>>>> sulfuric compounds become sulfuric acid (similar to how some cities
>>>> used to get acid rain). That extremely hot acid is then flung against
>>>> the 1st stage turbine stator and 1st stage turbine wheel (aka some of
>>>> the most expensive parts in a modern turbine engine).
>>>>
>>>>
>>> They're moving to composite ceramics instead of metals in jet engines,
>>
>> The bulk of the commercail aviation fleet is still traditional engines.
>>
>>> and anyways there's as much energy in sulphur as in carbon ;-)
>>>
>>> Dhu (goodbye, Carbon Monoxide, hello, sulphur dioxide! The air ., .,
>>> .,
>>> is everywhere!)
>>
>> So2 is bad news bro.
>>
>> They're going to exacerbate the next ice age (already in progress) and
>> kill lots of lung tissue off:
>>
>> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27565714/

That's a good possibility. Are we headed into any giant clouds of cold
hydrogen? If the worst comes down, we'll have to burn the Medicine River
coal instead of using it to speciate Ringworlds. Shit happens...

Dhu

>>
>> Inhalation of high concentrations of sulfur dioxide (SO2) affects the
>> lungs and can be immediately dangerous to life. We examined the
>> development of acute and long-term effects after exposure of SO2 in
>> Sprague-Dawley rats, in particular inflammatory responses, airway
>> hyperresponsiveness (AHR) and lung fibrosis. Animals were subjected to
>> a single exposure of 2200ppm SO2 during 10min and treated with a single
>> dose of the anti-inflammatory corticosteroid dexamethasone 1h following
>> exposure. Exposed rats showed labored breathing, decreased body-weight
>> and an acute inflammation with neutrophil and macrophage airway
>> infiltrates 5h post exposure. The acute effects were characterized by
>> bronchial damage restricted to the larger bronchi with widespread
>> injured mucosal epithelial lining. Rats displayed hyperreactive airways
>> 24h after exposure as indicated by increased methacholine-induced
>> respiratory resistance. The inflammatory infiltrates remained in lung
>> tissue for at least 14 days but at the late time-point the dominating
>> granulocyte types had changed from neutrophils to eosinophils.
>
> The quantities needed to effect solar reflection in the UPPER ATMOSPHERE
> are _vastly_lower_ than what comes outta Kilauea on a good day.
>
> Dhu

--
Je suis Canadien. Ce n'est pas Francais ou Anglais.
C'est une esp`ece de sauvage: ne obliviscaris, vix ea nostra voco;-)
Duncan Patton a Campbell

Dhu on Gate wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 11:12:09 -0600, Loran wrote:
>
>> Dhu on Gate wrote:
>>> On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 10:58:07 -0600, Loran wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Why? Sulfur is bad for jet engines. In the combustion chamber sulfuric
>>>> compounds become sulfuric acid (similar to how some cities used to get
>>>> acid rain). That extremely hot acid is then flung against the 1st
>>>> stage turbine stator and 1st stage turbine wheel (aka some of the most
>>>> expensive parts in a modern turbine engine).
>>>>
>>>>
>>> They're moving to composite ceramics instead of metals in jet engines,
>>
>> The bulk of the commercail aviation fleet is still traditional engines.
>>
>>> and anyways there's as much energy in sulphur as in carbon ;-)
>>>
>>> Dhu (goodbye, Carbon Monoxide, hello, sulphur dioxide! The air ., ., .,
>>> is everywhere!)
>>
>> So2 is bad news bro.
>>
>> They're going to exacerbate the next ice age (already in progress) and
>> kill lots of lung tissue off:
>>
>> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27565714/
>>
>> Inhalation of high concentrations of sulfur dioxide (SO2) affects the
>> lungs and can be immediately dangerous to life. We examined the
>> development of acute and long-term effects after exposure of SO2 in
>> Sprague-Dawley rats, in particular inflammatory responses, airway
>> hyperresponsiveness (AHR) and lung fibrosis. Animals were subjected to a
>> single exposure of 2200ppm SO2 during 10min and treated with a single
>> dose of the anti-inflammatory corticosteroid dexamethasone 1h following
>> exposure. Exposed rats showed labored breathing, decreased body-weight
>> and an acute inflammation with neutrophil and macrophage airway
>> infiltrates 5h post exposure. The acute effects were characterized by
>> bronchial damage restricted to the larger bronchi with widespread
>> injured mucosal epithelial lining. Rats displayed hyperreactive airways
>> 24h after exposure as indicated by increased methacholine-induced
>> respiratory resistance. The inflammatory infiltrates remained in lung
>> tissue for at least 14 days but at the late time-point the dominating
>> granulocyte types had changed from neutrophils to eosinophils.
>
> The quantities needed to effect solar reflection in the UPPER ATMOSPHERE
> are _vastly_lower_ than what comes outta Kilauea on a good day.
>
> Dhu
>
>
One forcing reaches the dreaded "tipping point" the ice will win out.

Dhu on Gate wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Jun 2024 02:01:20 -0000 (UTC), Dhu on Gate wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 11:12:09 -0600, Loran wrote:
>>
>>> Dhu on Gate wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 10:58:07 -0600, Loran wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Why? Sulfur is bad for jet engines. In the combustion chamber
>>>>> sulfuric compounds become sulfuric acid (similar to how some cities
>>>>> used to get acid rain). That extremely hot acid is then flung against
>>>>> the 1st stage turbine stator and 1st stage turbine wheel (aka some of
>>>>> the most expensive parts in a modern turbine engine).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> They're moving to composite ceramics instead of metals in jet engines,
>>>
>>> The bulk of the commercail aviation fleet is still traditional engines.
>>>
>>>> and anyways there's as much energy in sulphur as in carbon ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Dhu (goodbye, Carbon Monoxide, hello, sulphur dioxide! The air ., .,
>>>> .,
>>>> is everywhere!)
>>>
>>> So2 is bad news bro.
>>>
>>> They're going to exacerbate the next ice age (already in progress) and
>>> kill lots of lung tissue off:
>>>
>>> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27565714/
>
> That's a good possibility. Are we headed into any giant clouds of cold
> hydrogen? If the worst comes down, we'll have to burn the Medicine River
> coal instead of using it to speciate Ringworlds. Shit happens...
>
> Dhu
>
>>>
>>> Inhalation of high concentrations of sulfur dioxide (SO2) affects the
>>> lungs and can be immediately dangerous to life. We examined the
>>> development of acute and long-term effects after exposure of SO2 in
>>> Sprague-Dawley rats, in particular inflammatory responses, airway
>>> hyperresponsiveness (AHR) and lung fibrosis. Animals were subjected to
>>> a single exposure of 2200ppm SO2 during 10min and treated with a single
>>> dose of the anti-inflammatory corticosteroid dexamethasone 1h following
>>> exposure. Exposed rats showed labored breathing, decreased body-weight
>>> and an acute inflammation with neutrophil and macrophage airway
>>> infiltrates 5h post exposure. The acute effects were characterized by
>>> bronchial damage restricted to the larger bronchi with widespread
>>> injured mucosal epithelial lining. Rats displayed hyperreactive airways
>>> 24h after exposure as indicated by increased methacholine-induced
>>> respiratory resistance. The inflammatory infiltrates remained in lung
>>> tissue for at least 14 days but at the late time-point the dominating
>>> granulocyte types had changed from neutrophils to eosinophils.
>>
>> The quantities needed to effect solar reflection in the UPPER ATMOSPHERE
>> are _vastly_lower_ than what comes outta Kilauea on a good day.
>>
>> Dhu
>
>
>
>
>
At least you've got a plan of sorts!