On 1/04/2024 4:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
> just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
> not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
> on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
> time which could be better spent doing other things.
> I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
> anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
> piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
> particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
> perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
> I experience.
>
> Thanks,
>
> CD.

**In my 55 years of servicing, I've only blown up one thing: A Micronta
DMM, which I connected to a laser power supply. I should not have done
it. Clear operator failure. Everything else works just fine. Even my
first multimeter. A Sanwa U-50D my dad gave me on my 14th birthday.
Still works fine. My first DMM. A cheap 'n cheerful SOAR. Works just
fine. My first Fluke meter. A 40 year old Fluke 85. Works fine. I've had
to clean the switch a few times. Otherwise, no problems. Ditto my other
15 or so meters. Same deal with my 'scopes.

I don't know what your problem is. Test equipment, when treated properly
lasts a long time.

--
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www.avast.com

On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 11:40:02 +1000, Trevor Wilson
<trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:

>On 1/04/2024 4:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>> just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>> not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>> on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>> time which could be better spent doing other things.
>> I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>> anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>> piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>> particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>> perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>> I experience.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> CD.
>
>**In my 55 years of servicing, I've only blown up one thing: A Micronta
>DMM, which I connected to a laser power supply. I should not have done
>it. Clear operator failure. Everything else works just fine. Even my
>first multimeter. A Sanwa U-50D my dad gave me on my 14th birthday.
>Still works fine. My first DMM. A cheap 'n cheerful SOAR. Works just
>fine. My first Fluke meter. A 40 year old Fluke 85. Works fine. I've had
>to clean the switch a few times. Otherwise, no problems. Ditto my other
>15 or so meters. Same deal with my 'scopes.
>
>I don't know what your problem is. Test equipment, when treated properly
>lasts a long time.

To be fair, these "explosions" are typically capacitors: old, dried
-out electrolytics in test gear that hasn't been used in a long time
go bang when the power's switched on - as do old X2 safety caps. Those
are the chief culprits IME.

On 11/04/2024 3:42 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 11:40:02 +1000, Trevor Wilson
> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>
>> On 1/04/2024 4:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>>> just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>>> not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>>> on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>>> time which could be better spent doing other things.
>>> I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>>> anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>>> piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>>> particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>>> perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>>> I experience.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> CD.
>>
>> **In my 55 years of servicing, I've only blown up one thing: A Micronta
>> DMM, which I connected to a laser power supply. I should not have done
>> it. Clear operator failure. Everything else works just fine. Even my
>> first multimeter. A Sanwa U-50D my dad gave me on my 14th birthday.
>> Still works fine. My first DMM. A cheap 'n cheerful SOAR. Works just
>> fine. My first Fluke meter. A 40 year old Fluke 85. Works fine. I've had
>> to clean the switch a few times. Otherwise, no problems. Ditto my other
>> 15 or so meters. Same deal with my 'scopes.
>>
>> I don't know what your problem is. Test equipment, when treated properly
>> lasts a long time.
>
> To be fair, these "explosions" are typically capacitors: old, dried
> -out electrolytics in test gear that hasn't been used in a long time
> go bang when the power's switched on - as do old X2 safety caps. Those
> are the chief culprits IME.

**Oh, I see. You ignore regular maintenance. That makes sense. I hope no
one buys a car from you.

--
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On 2024-04-10 16:30, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 11/04/2024 3:42 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 11:40:02 +1000, Trevor Wilson
>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/04/2024 4:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>>>> just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>>>> not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>>>> on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>>>> time which could be better spent doing other things.
>>>> I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>>>> anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>>>> piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>>>> particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>>>> perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>>>> I experience.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> CD.
>>>
>>> **In my 55 years of servicing, I've only blown up one thing: A Micronta
>>> DMM, which I connected to a laser power supply. I should not have done
>>> it. Clear operator failure. Everything else works just fine. Even my
>>> first multimeter. A Sanwa U-50D my dad gave me on my 14th birthday.
>>> Still works fine. My first DMM. A cheap 'n cheerful SOAR. Works just
>>> fine. My first Fluke meter. A 40 year old Fluke 85. Works fine. I've had
>>> to clean the switch a few times. Otherwise, no problems. Ditto my other
>>> 15 or so meters. Same deal with my 'scopes.
>>>
>>> I don't know what your problem is. Test equipment, when treated properly
>>> lasts a long time.
>>
>> To be fair, these "explosions" are typically capacitors: old, dried
>> -out electrolytics in test gear that hasn't been used in a long time
>> go bang when the power's switched on - as do old X2 safety caps. Those
>> are the chief culprits IME.
>
> **Oh, I see. You ignore regular maintenance. That makes sense. I hope no
> one buys a car from you.
>

Whereas all you Ozites are 100% rational reasonable polite beings who
are always on top of everything, including predicting the exact date
when an old cap will give up the ghost.

Silly me for forgetting. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 09:55:18 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

>On 2024-04-10 16:30, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 11/04/2024 3:42 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 11:40:02 +1000, Trevor Wilson
>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/04/2024 4:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>>>>> just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>>>>> not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>>>>> on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>>>>> time which could be better spent doing other things.
>>>>> I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>>>>> anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>>>>> piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>>>>> particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>>>>> perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>>>>> I experience.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> CD.
>>>>
>>>> **In my 55 years of servicing, I've only blown up one thing: A Micronta
>>>> DMM, which I connected to a laser power supply. I should not have done
>>>> it. Clear operator failure. Everything else works just fine. Even my
>>>> first multimeter. A Sanwa U-50D my dad gave me on my 14th birthday.
>>>> Still works fine. My first DMM. A cheap 'n cheerful SOAR. Works just
>>>> fine. My first Fluke meter. A 40 year old Fluke 85. Works fine. I've had
>>>> to clean the switch a few times. Otherwise, no problems. Ditto my other
>>>> 15 or so meters. Same deal with my 'scopes.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know what your problem is. Test equipment, when treated properly
>>>> lasts a long time.
>>>
>>> To be fair, these "explosions" are typically capacitors: old, dried
>>> -out electrolytics in test gear that hasn't been used in a long time
>>> go bang when the power's switched on - as do old X2 safety caps. Those
>>> are the chief culprits IME.
>>
>> **Oh, I see. You ignore regular maintenance. That makes sense. I hope no
>> one buys a car from you.
>>
>
>Whereas all you Ozites are 100% rational reasonable polite beings who
>are always on top of everything, including predicting the exact date
>when an old cap will give up the ghost.
>
>Silly me for forgetting. ;)
>
>Cheers
>
>Phil Hobbs

You don't routinely replace caps in all your test gear? I'm shocked,
shocked.

(My nice little HP6212A power supply must be 50 years old. It's never
been opened and works great.)

On 2024-04-11 13:11, john larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 09:55:18 -0400, Phil Hobbs
> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>
>> On 2024-04-10 16:30, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 11/04/2024 3:42 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 11:40:02 +1000, Trevor Wilson
>>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/04/2024 4:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>>>>>> just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>>>>>> not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>>>>>> on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>>>>>> time which could be better spent doing other things.
>>>>>> I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>>>>>> anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>>>>>> piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>>>>>> particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>>>>>> perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>>>>>> I experience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CD.
>>>>>
>>>>> **In my 55 years of servicing, I've only blown up one thing: A Micronta
>>>>> DMM, which I connected to a laser power supply. I should not have done
>>>>> it. Clear operator failure. Everything else works just fine. Even my
>>>>> first multimeter. A Sanwa U-50D my dad gave me on my 14th birthday.
>>>>> Still works fine. My first DMM. A cheap 'n cheerful SOAR. Works just
>>>>> fine. My first Fluke meter. A 40 year old Fluke 85. Works fine. I've had
>>>>> to clean the switch a few times. Otherwise, no problems. Ditto my other
>>>>> 15 or so meters. Same deal with my 'scopes.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know what your problem is. Test equipment, when treated properly
>>>>> lasts a long time.
>>>>
>>>> To be fair, these "explosions" are typically capacitors: old, dried
>>>> -out electrolytics in test gear that hasn't been used in a long time
>>>> go bang when the power's switched on - as do old X2 safety caps. Those
>>>> are the chief culprits IME.
>>>
>>> **Oh, I see. You ignore regular maintenance. That makes sense. I hope no
>>> one buys a car from you.
>>>
>>
>> Whereas all you Ozites are 100% rational reasonable polite beings who
>> are always on top of everything, including predicting the exact date
>> when an old cap will give up the ghost.
>>
>> Silly me for forgetting. ;)
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Phil Hobbs
>
> You don't routinely replace caps in all your test gear? I'm shocked,
> shocked.

Sad but true. ;)
>
> (My nice little HP6212A power supply must be 50 years old. It's never
> been opened and works great.)

I have a number of the 611x supplies, including the 3 kV one. Only one
has ever actually failed--it was my previous 3 kV, whose transformer
started arcing internally, so I tossed it.

In good equipment (HP & Tek, 1985 or so on), age-related failures are
much more common on the outside of the front panel than on the inside.
(A problem not unrelated to PEBCAK.) ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

On 11/04/2024 11:55 pm, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> On 2024-04-10 16:30, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 11/04/2024 3:42 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 11:40:02 +1000, Trevor Wilson
>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/04/2024 4:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>>>>> just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>>>>> not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>>>>> on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>>>>> time which could be better spent doing other things.
>>>>> I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>>>>> anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>>>>> piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>>>>> particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>>>>> perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>>>>> I experience.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> CD.
>>>>
>>>> **In my 55 years of servicing, I've only blown up one thing: A Micronta
>>>> DMM, which I connected to a laser power supply. I should not have done
>>>> it. Clear operator failure. Everything else works just fine. Even my
>>>> first multimeter. A Sanwa U-50D my dad gave me on my 14th birthday.
>>>> Still works fine. My first DMM. A cheap 'n cheerful SOAR. Works just
>>>> fine. My first Fluke meter. A 40 year old Fluke 85. Works fine. I've
>>>> had
>>>> to clean the switch a few times. Otherwise, no problems. Ditto my other
>>>> 15 or so meters. Same deal with my 'scopes.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know what your problem is. Test equipment, when treated
>>>> properly
>>>> lasts a long time.
>>>
>>> To be fair, these "explosions" are typically capacitors: old, dried
>>> -out electrolytics in test gear that hasn't been used in a long time
>>> go bang when the power's switched on - as do old X2 safety caps. Those
>>> are the chief culprits IME.
>>
>> **Oh, I see. You ignore regular maintenance. That makes sense. I hope
>> no one buys a car from you.
>>
>
> Whereas all you Ozites are 100% rational reasonable polite beings who
> are always on top of everything, including predicting the exact date
> when an old cap will give up the ghost.
>
> Silly me for forgetting. ;)
>
> Cheers
>
> Phil Hobbs

**The FIRST thing I do, when I acquire a new (second hand) piece of
equipment is to replace all the RIFA caps that are connected across the
mains I find. Then I carefully look for any signs of distress from
electros. After which, I experience no or few problems. Two items I
recently acquired (a Sound Technology 1000A and HP339A) were COMPLETELY
re-built with all new electros, as they are very old products. Most of
the electros measured acceptably well, but some were well below spec
(ESR). They now perform as new (better than new in the case of the
339A). OTOH, my recently acquired Panasonic VP-7721A required nothing
else but a new NiCad back-up battery. Performance was well beyond
specification. No RIFA caps either.

Here is the distortion profile of 1kHz output from the Pana:

https://ibb.co/2yqM1S4

I have no idea why the OP has so many problems with decent test
equipment, as test equipment tends to use superior quality components
when compared to domestic equipment. With the exception of RIFA caps.

And the only product that ever failed when I switched on was a second
hand Tektronix 2267B, I acquired from the Japan a few years back. It
seems that the RIFA caps in the power supply had become accustomed to
the Japanese 100VAC mains and 'chucked a wobbly' when connected to our
Aussie mains supply. Much smoke and more than a little panic from me.
Hence, I now replace ALL RIFA caps on sight.

--
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On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 06:04:45 +1000, Trevor Wilson
<trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:

>On 11/04/2024 11:55 pm, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>> On 2024-04-10 16:30, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 11/04/2024 3:42 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 11:40:02 +1000, Trevor Wilson
>>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/04/2024 4:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>>>>>> just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>>>>>> not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>>>>>> on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>>>>>> time which could be better spent doing other things.
>>>>>> I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>>>>>> anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>>>>>> piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>>>>>> particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>>>>>> perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>>>>>> I experience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CD.
>>>>>
>>>>> **In my 55 years of servicing, I've only blown up one thing: A Micronta
>>>>> DMM, which I connected to a laser power supply. I should not have done
>>>>> it. Clear operator failure. Everything else works just fine. Even my
>>>>> first multimeter. A Sanwa U-50D my dad gave me on my 14th birthday.
>>>>> Still works fine. My first DMM. A cheap 'n cheerful SOAR. Works just
>>>>> fine. My first Fluke meter. A 40 year old Fluke 85. Works fine. I've
>>>>> had
>>>>> to clean the switch a few times. Otherwise, no problems. Ditto my other
>>>>> 15 or so meters. Same deal with my 'scopes.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know what your problem is. Test equipment, when treated
>>>>> properly
>>>>> lasts a long time.
>>>>
>>>> To be fair, these "explosions" are typically capacitors: old, dried
>>>> -out electrolytics in test gear that hasn't been used in a long time
>>>> go bang when the power's switched on - as do old X2 safety caps. Those
>>>> are the chief culprits IME.
>>>
>>> **Oh, I see. You ignore regular maintenance. That makes sense. I hope
>>> no one buys a car from you.
>>>
>>
>> Whereas all you Ozites are 100% rational reasonable polite beings who
>> are always on top of everything, including predicting the exact date
>> when an old cap will give up the ghost.
>>
>> Silly me for forgetting. ;)
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Phil Hobbs
>
>**The FIRST thing I do, when I acquire a new (second hand) piece of
>equipment is to replace all the RIFA caps that are connected across the
>mains I find. Then I carefully look for any signs of distress from
>electros. After which, I experience no or few problems. Two items I
>recently acquired (a Sound Technology 1000A and HP339A) were COMPLETELY
>re-built with all new electros, as they are very old products. Most of
>the electros measured acceptably well, but some were well below spec
>(ESR). They now perform as new (better than new in the case of the
>339A). OTOH, my recently acquired Panasonic VP-7721A required nothing
>else but a new NiCad back-up battery. Performance was well beyond
>specification. No RIFA caps either.
>
>Here is the distortion profile of 1kHz output from the Pana:
>
>https://ibb.co/2yqM1S4
>
>
>I have no idea why the OP has so many problems with decent test
>equipment, as test equipment tends to use superior quality components
>when compared to domestic equipment. With the exception of RIFA caps.
>
>And the only product that ever failed when I switched on was a second
>hand Tektronix 2267B, I acquired from the Japan a few years back. It
>seems that the RIFA caps in the power supply had become accustomed to
>the Japanese 100VAC mains and 'chucked a wobbly' when connected to our
>Aussie mains supply. Much smoke and more than a little panic from me.
>Hence, I now replace ALL RIFA caps on sight.

Ah - you're Australian. That explains a lot.

On 4/11/2024 3:42 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> On 2024-04-11 13:11, john larkin wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 09:55:18 -0400, Phil Hobbs
>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-04-10 16:30, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 11/04/2024 3:42 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 11:40:02 +1000, Trevor Wilson
>>>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/04/2024 4:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment
>>>>>>> blow up
>>>>>>> just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if
>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>> not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you
>>>>>>> switch it
>>>>>>> on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a
>>>>>>> lot of
>>>>>>> time which could be better spent doing other things.
>>>>>>> I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>>>>>>> anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>>>>>>> piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>>>>>>> particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>>>>>>> perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of
>>>>>>> explosions
>>>>>>> I experience.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> CD.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **In my 55 years of servicing, I've only blown up one thing: A
>>>>>> Micronta
>>>>>> DMM, which I connected to a laser power supply. I should not have
>>>>>> done
>>>>>> it. Clear operator failure. Everything else works just fine. Even my
>>>>>> first multimeter. A Sanwa U-50D my dad gave me on my 14th birthday.
>>>>>> Still works fine. My first DMM. A cheap 'n cheerful SOAR. Works just
>>>>>> fine. My first Fluke meter. A 40 year old Fluke 85. Works fine.
>>>>>> I've had
>>>>>> to clean the switch a few times. Otherwise, no problems. Ditto my
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> 15 or so meters. Same deal with my 'scopes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know what your problem is. Test equipment, when treated
>>>>>> properly
>>>>>> lasts a long time.
>>>>>
>>>>> To be fair, these "explosions" are typically capacitors: old, dried
>>>>> -out electrolytics in test gear that hasn't been used in a long time
>>>>> go bang when the power's switched on - as do old X2 safety caps. Those
>>>>> are the chief culprits IME.
>>>>
>>>> **Oh, I see. You ignore regular maintenance. That makes sense. I
>>>> hope no
>>>> one buys a car from you.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Whereas all you Ozites are 100% rational reasonable polite beings who
>>> are always on top of everything, including predicting the exact date
>>> when an old cap will give up the ghost.
>>>
>>> Silly me for forgetting. ;)
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Phil Hobbs
>>
>> You don't routinely replace caps in all your test gear? I'm shocked,
>> shocked.
>
> Sad but true. ;)

Sad, yes, but look at the bright side: at least you won't
be shocked by a charged cap you are replacing...

Ed
>
> Cheers
>
> Phil Hobbs
>

On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 15:42:23 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

>On 2024-04-11 13:11, john larkin wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 09:55:18 -0400, Phil Hobbs
>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-04-10 16:30, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 11/04/2024 3:42 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 11:40:02 +1000, Trevor Wilson
>>>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/04/2024 4:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>>>>>>> just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>>>>>>> not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>>>>>>> on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>>>>>>> time which could be better spent doing other things.
>>>>>>> I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>>>>>>> anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>>>>>>> piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>>>>>>> particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>>>>>>> perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>>>>>>> I experience.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> CD.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **In my 55 years of servicing, I've only blown up one thing: A Micronta
>>>>>> DMM, which I connected to a laser power supply. I should not have done
>>>>>> it. Clear operator failure. Everything else works just fine. Even my
>>>>>> first multimeter. A Sanwa U-50D my dad gave me on my 14th birthday.
>>>>>> Still works fine. My first DMM. A cheap 'n cheerful SOAR. Works just
>>>>>> fine. My first Fluke meter. A 40 year old Fluke 85. Works fine. I've had
>>>>>> to clean the switch a few times. Otherwise, no problems. Ditto my other
>>>>>> 15 or so meters. Same deal with my 'scopes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know what your problem is. Test equipment, when treated properly
>>>>>> lasts a long time.
>>>>>
>>>>> To be fair, these "explosions" are typically capacitors: old, dried
>>>>> -out electrolytics in test gear that hasn't been used in a long time
>>>>> go bang when the power's switched on - as do old X2 safety caps. Those
>>>>> are the chief culprits IME.
>>>>
>>>> **Oh, I see. You ignore regular maintenance. That makes sense. I hope no
>>>> one buys a car from you.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Whereas all you Ozites are 100% rational reasonable polite beings who
>>> are always on top of everything, including predicting the exact date
>>> when an old cap will give up the ghost.
>>>
>>> Silly me for forgetting. ;)
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Phil Hobbs
>>
>> You don't routinely replace caps in all your test gear? I'm shocked,
>> shocked.
>
>Sad but true. ;)
>>
>> (My nice little HP6212A power supply must be 50 years old. It's never
>> been opened and works great.)
>
>I have a number of the 611x supplies, including the 3 kV one. Only one
>has ever actually failed--it was my previous 3 kV, whose transformer
>started arcing internally, so I tossed it.
>
>In good equipment (HP & Tek, 1985 or so on), age-related failures are
>much more common on the outside of the front panel than on the inside.
>(A problem not unrelated to PEBCAK.) ;)
>
>Cheers
>
>Phil Hobbs

We've been designing a bunch of power supplies lately. There were
discussions about bandwidths and dynamics and corner cases and such,
so I scarfed up all the power supplies around here and tested them for
output capacitance, voltage step slew rate, short circuit recovery,
things like that, to sort of anticipate what customers might be used
to. The result is that power supplies are all over the place and users
can't really expect anything.

I like to use a PWM half-bridge as the output stage, because it has
good dynamics over the whole load range. But if the user connects it
to a bus or a battery or just a giant capacitive load, and programs
the voltage below what's at the teminals, it becomes a backwards boost
converter and blows up the input side caps. I suppose we should do
something about that. And maybe they will connect it to some giant bus
or battery backwards. Remote sense is another opportunity to make
smoke.

I'm doing an 8-channel non-isolated DC supply, pretty simple stuff.
But 8 half-bridges is four full bridges, so I can spin a
stepper/torque motor/solenoid/servo driver version and charge more. I
enjoy designing stepper motor drivers for some reason.

On 12/04/2024 5:42 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> On 2024-04-11 13:11, john larkin wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 09:55:18 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>> On 2024-04-10 16:30, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 11/04/2024 3:42 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 11:40:02 +1000, Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/04/2024 4:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>>>>>>> just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if
>>>>>>> it's not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you
>>>>>>> switch it on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a
>>>>>>> lot of time which could be better spent doing other things.
>>>>>>> I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>>>>>>> anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>>>>>>> piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>>>>>>> particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>>>>>>> perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of
>>>>>>> explosion I experience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **In my 55 years of servicing, I've only blown up one thing: A
>>>>>> Micronta DMM, which I connected to a laser power supply. I should not have
>>>>>> done it. Clear operator failure. Everything else works just fine. Even my
>>>>>> first multimeter. A Sanwa U-50D my dad gave me on my 14th birthday.
>>>>>> Still works fine. My first DMM. A cheap 'n cheerful SOAR. Works just
>>>>>> fine. My first Fluke meter. A 40 year old Fluke 85. Works fine. I've had
>>>>>> to clean the switch a few times. Otherwise, no problems. Ditto my
>>>>>> other 15 or so meters. Same deal with my 'scopes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know what your problem is. Test equipment, when treated
>>>>>> properly lasts a long time.
>>>>>
>>>>> To be fair, these "explosions" are typically capacitors: old, dried
>>>>> -out electrolytics in test gear that hasn't been used in a long time
>>>>> go bang when the power's switched on - as do old X2 safety caps. Those
>>>>> are the chief culprits IME.
>>>>
>>>> **Oh, I see. You ignore regular maintenance. That makes sense. I
>>>> hope no-one buys a car from you.
>>>
>>> Whereas all you Ozites are 100% rational reasonable polite beings who
>>> are always on top of everything, including predicting the exact date
>>> when an old cap will give up the ghost.

Old electrolytic capacitors tend to give up the ghost when they have
been left unpolarised for years, and are then subject to their rated
voltage without having been re-formed first.

Predicting that kind of failure isn't difficult.

>>> Silly me for forgetting. ;)

You don't have much to do with clueless newbies.

>> You don't routinely replace caps in all your test gear? I'm shocked,
>> shocked.

You don't replace them, you re-form them - day or so subject to rated
voltage applied through a nice big resistor (100k comes to mind).

> Sad but true. ;)
>
>> (My nice little HP6212A power supply must be 50 years old. It's never
>> been opened and works great.)
>
> I have a number of the 611x supplies, including the 3 kV one.  Only one
> has ever actually failed--it was my previous 3 kV, whose transformer
> started arcing internally, so I tossed it.
>
> In good equipment (HP & Tek, 1985 or so on), age-related failures are
> much more common on the outside of the front panel than on the inside.
> (A problem not unrelated to PEBCAK.) ;)

Problem Exists Between Chair and Keyboard.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On 12/04/2024 3:32 pm, Bill Sloman wrote:
> On 12/04/2024 5:42 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>> On 2024-04-11 13:11, john larkin wrote:
>>> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 09:55:18 -0400, Phil Hobbs
>>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>>> On 2024-04-10 16:30, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>> On 11/04/2024 3:42 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 11:40:02 +1000, Trevor Wilson
>>>>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/04/2024 4:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment
>>>>>>>> blow up
>>>>>>>> just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear;
>>>>>>>> if it's not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time
>>>>>>>> you switch it on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff,
>>>>>>>> but wastes a lot of time which could be better spent doing other
>>>>>>>> things.
>>>>>>>> I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just
>>>>>>>> wondering if
>>>>>>>> anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a
>>>>>>>> particular
>>>>>>>> piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>>>>>>>> particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>>>>>>>> perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of
>>>>>>>> explosion I experience.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **In my 55 years of servicing, I've only blown up one thing: A
>>>>>>> Micronta DMM, which I connected to a laser power supply. I should
>>>>>>> not have done it. Clear operator failure. Everything else works
>>>>>>> just fine. Even my
>>>>>>> first multimeter. A Sanwa U-50D my dad gave me on my 14th birthday.
>>>>>>> Still works fine. My first DMM. A cheap 'n cheerful SOAR. Works just
>>>>>>> fine. My first Fluke meter. A 40 year old Fluke 85. Works fine.
>>>>>>> I've had
>>>>>>> to clean the switch a few times. Otherwise, no problems. Ditto my
>>>>>>> other 15 or so meters. Same deal with my 'scopes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't know what your problem is. Test equipment, when treated
>>>>>>> properly lasts a long time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To be fair, these "explosions" are typically capacitors: old, dried
>>>>>> -out electrolytics in test gear that hasn't been used in a long time
>>>>>> go bang when the power's switched on - as do old X2 safety caps.
>>>>>> Those
>>>>>> are the chief culprits IME.
>>>>>
>>>>> **Oh, I see. You ignore regular maintenance. That makes sense. I
>>>>> hope no-one buys a car from you.
>>>>
>>>> Whereas all you Ozites are 100% rational reasonable polite beings who
>>>> are always on top of everything, including predicting the exact date
>>>> when an old cap will give up the ghost.
>
> Old electrolytic capacitors tend to give up the ghost when they have
> been left unpolarised for years, and are then subject to their rated
> voltage without having been re-formed first.
>
> Predicting that kind of failure isn't difficult.
>
>>>> Silly me for forgetting. ;)
>
> You don't have much to do with clueless newbies.
>
>>> You don't routinely replace caps in all your test gear? I'm shocked,
>>> shocked.
>
> You don't replace them, you re-form them -  day or so subject to rated
> voltage applied through a nice big resistor (100k comes to mind).

**It would only be required if the unit has been out of service for
quite some time, unless it is very old of course. In any case, if I
remove a cap from equipment, it will almost always be simply replaced,
unless it is a very large and expensive component.

>
>> Sad but true. ;)
>>
>>> (My nice little HP6212A power supply must be 50 years old. It's never
>>> been opened and works great.)
>>
>> I have a number of the 611x supplies, including the 3 kV one.  Only
>> one has ever actually failed--it was my previous 3 kV, whose
>> transformer started arcing internally, so I tossed it.
>>
>> In good equipment (HP & Tek, 1985 or so on), age-related failures are
>> much more common on the outside of the front panel than on the inside.
>> (A problem not unrelated to PEBCAK.) ;)
>
> Problem Exists Between Chair and Keyboard.
>

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On 12/04/2024 8:36 am, Dan Green wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 06:04:45 +1000, Trevor Wilson
> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>
>> On 11/04/2024 11:55 pm, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>> On 2024-04-10 16:30, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 11/04/2024 3:42 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 11:40:02 +1000, Trevor Wilson
>>>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/04/2024 4:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:

<snip>

>> I have no idea why the OP has so many problems with decent test
>> equipment, as test equipment tends to use superior quality components
>> when compared to domestic equipment. With the exception of RIFA caps.
>>
>> And the only product that ever failed when I switched on was a second
>> hand Tektronix 2267B, I acquired from the Japan a few years back. It
>> seems that the RIFA caps in the power supply had become accustomed to
>> the Japanese 100VAC mains and 'chucked a wobbly' when connected to our
>> Aussie mains supply. Much smoke and more than a little panic from me.
>> Hence, I now replace ALL RIFA caps on sight.
>
> Ah - you're Australian. That explains a lot.

Australian's don't suffer from not-invented here, mainly because a lot
of stuff does get invented in Australia.

Americans have a bigger problem - going back to Thomas Edison whose
famous incandescent lamp was actually invented by Sir Joseph Swan. The
Edison and Swan United Electric Light Company owned both Swan's and
Edison's patents, so nobody was fussed about which patent had come first.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On 12/04/2024 3:46 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 12/04/2024 3:32 pm, Bill Sloman wrote:
>> On 12/04/2024 5:42 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>> On 2024-04-11 13:11, john larkin wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 09:55:18 -0400, Phil Hobbs
>>>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-04-10 16:30, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/04/2024 3:42 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 11:40:02 +1000, Trevor Wilson
>>>>>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 1/04/2024 4:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment
>>>>>>>>> blow up
>>>>>>>>> just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear;
>>>>>>>>> if it's not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time
>>>>>>>>> you switch it on. It makes for good practice in repairing
>>>>>>>>> stuff, but wastes a lot of time which could be better spent
>>>>>>>>> doing other things.
>>>>>>>>> I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just
>>>>>>>>> wondering if
>>>>>>>>> anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a
>>>>>>>>> particular
>>>>>>>>> piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something
>>>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>>>> particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>>>>>>>>> perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of
>>>>>>>>> explosion I experience.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> **In my 55 years of servicing, I've only blown up one thing: A
>>>>>>>> Micronta DMM, which I connected to a laser power supply. I
>>>>>>>> should not have done it. Clear operator failure. Everything else
>>>>>>>> works just fine. Even my
>>>>>>>> first multimeter. A Sanwa U-50D my dad gave me on my 14th birthday.
>>>>>>>> Still works fine. My first DMM. A cheap 'n cheerful SOAR. Works
>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>> fine. My first Fluke meter. A 40 year old Fluke 85. Works fine.
>>>>>>>> I've had
>>>>>>>> to clean the switch a few times. Otherwise, no problems. Ditto
>>>>>>>> my other 15 or so meters. Same deal with my 'scopes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't know what your problem is. Test equipment, when treated
>>>>>>>> properly lasts a long time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To be fair, these "explosions" are typically capacitors: old, dried
>>>>>>> -out electrolytics in test gear that hasn't been used in a long time
>>>>>>> go bang when the power's switched on - as do old X2 safety caps.
>>>>>>> Those
>>>>>>> are the chief culprits IME.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Oh, I see. You ignore regular maintenance. That makes sense. I
>>>>>> hope no-one buys a car from you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Whereas all you Ozites are 100% rational reasonable polite beings who
>>>>> are always on top of everything, including predicting the exact date
>>>>> when an old cap will give up the ghost.
>>
>> Old electrolytic capacitors tend to give up the ghost when they have
>> been left unpolarised for years, and are then subject to their rated
>> voltage without having been re-formed first.
>>
>> Predicting that kind of failure isn't difficult.
>>
>>>>> Silly me for forgetting. ;)
>>
>> You don't have much to do with clueless newbies.
>>
>>>> You don't routinely replace caps in all your test gear? I'm shocked,
>>>> shocked.
>>
>> You don't replace them, you re-form them -  day or so subject to rated
>> voltage applied through a nice big resistor (100k comes to mind).
>
> **It would only be required if the unit has been out of service for
> quite some time, unless it is very old of course. In any case, if I
> remove a cap from equipment, it will almost always be simply replaced,
> unless it is a very large and expensive component.

The only time I've done it was with a "new" capacitor bought from a
cheap supplier for my home-brew hi-fi. It was a large - it not all that
expensive - component, and would have been a pest to replace.

The hi-fi worked for about thirty years. It had sat in basement for
quite a while - my wife eventually judged it too ugly for the living
room - and when it stopped working it was quicker to buy an off the
shelf replacement, and we then had the money to do that without thinking
about it. I did think about finding the fault (in the discrete input
transistors) but never got far enough to find the actual defective part
or replace it.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney