Why author removed from header of messages ?

Re: Greetings (Retro Guy)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2023 16:20 CEST Newsgroups: rocksolid.social
headers

<84657053e7d0e2c52f848d809678e631@rocksolidbbs.com>
copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/rocksolid/article-flat.php?id=209&group=rocksolid.social#209
copy link
References: 1

--===-=]

Greetings (Old)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2023 10:14 CEST Newsgroups: rocksolid.social
headers

<bc329f25d69c8d3310fe25dd3d5c5a41@news.novabbs.org>
copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/rocksolid/article-flat.php?id=206&group=rocksolid.social#206
copy link

On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 13:18:55 +0000, darius wrote:

> Why author removed from header of messages ?
>
> Re: Greetings (Retro Guy)
> Date: Mon, 15 May 2023 16:20 CEST Newsgroups: rocksolid.social
> headers
>
> <84657053e7d0e2c52f848d809678e631@rocksolidbbs.com>
> copy mid
>
> https://www.novabbs.com/rocksolid/article-flat.php?id=209&group=rocksolid.social#209
> copy link
> References: 1
>
>
> --===-=]
>
> Greetings (Old)
> Date: Mon, 15 May 2023 10:14 CEST Newsgroups: rocksolid.social
> headers
>
> <bc329f25d69c8d3310fe25dd3d5c5a41@news.novabbs.org>
> copy mid
>
> https://www.novabbs.com/rocksolid/article-flat.php?id=206&group=rocksolid.social#206
> copy link

Author is not removed, it has been moved to the right of the subject:

Re: Greetings (Retro Guy)

--
Retro Guy

Author is not removed, it has been moved to the right of the subject:

Re: Greetings (Retro Guy)

Exactly,

Author: 's field has been removed,
violating Usenet standard

Author's name is never the part of the Subject: field

On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 15:55:18 +0000, darius wrote:

> Author is not removed, it has been moved to the right of the subject:
>
> Re: Greetings (Retro Guy)
>
>
> Exactly,
>
> Author: 's field has been removed,
> violating Usenet standard
>
> Author's name is never the part of the Subject: field

Please report me to the standard's police :)

No actual headers were harmed in this process (the headers remain intact).

The actual header is intact. The web page makes it easier to find the
author's name.

On 26.10.2024 um 10:57 Uhr Retro Guy wrote:

> The actual header is intact. The web page makes it easier to find the
> author's name.

In my opinion, it is now harder to find the author, but that is just my
opinion on this.

--
kind regards
Marco

Send spam to 1729933051muell@cartoonies.org

On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 20:10:02 +0200, Marco Moock wrote:

> On 26.10.2024 um 10:57 Uhr Retro Guy wrote:
>
>> The actual header is intact. The web page makes it easier to find the
>> author's name.
>
> In my opinion, it is now harder to find the author, but that is just my
> opinion on this.

Hmmm... I found the opposite, but that is just me, of course.

I'll mess with it a bit more.

On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 18:15:32 +0000, Retro Guy wrote:

> On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 20:10:02 +0200, Marco Moock wrote:
>
>> On 26.10.2024 um 10:57 Uhr Retro Guy wrote:
>>
>>> The actual header is intact. The web page makes it easier to find the
>>> author's name.
>>
>> In my opinion, it is now harder to find the author, but that is just my
>> opinion on this.
>
> Hmmm... I found the opposite, but that is just me, of course.
>
> I'll mess with it a bit more.

Ok, I have included both options.

Showing From below Subject is default. Showing to the right of Subject
is an overrides option. See pics:

Default:
https://postimg.cc/K4vKM7kN

Optional:
https://postimg.cc/dLgDpzWH

Will this work? I like to provide options :)

--
Retro Guy

On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 18:52:33 +0000, Retro Guy wrote:

> On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 18:15:32 +0000, Retro Guy wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 20:10:02 +0200, Marco Moock wrote:
>>
>>> On 26.10.2024 um 10:57 Uhr Retro Guy wrote:
>>>
>>>> The actual header is intact. The web page makes it easier to find the
>>>> author's name.
>>>
>>> In my opinion, it is now harder to find the author, but that is just my
>>> opinion on this.
>>
>> Hmmm... I found the opposite, but that is just me, of course.
>>
>> I'll mess with it a bit more.
>
> Ok, I have included both options.
>
> Showing From below Subject is default. Showing to the right of Subject
> is an overrides option. See pics:
>
> Default:
> https://postimg.cc/K4vKM7kN
>
> Optional:
> https://postimg.cc/dLgDpzWH
>
> Will this work? I like to provide options :)

Also note, I'm adding new css classes for everything I add now. So,
Subject display in short_headers has it's own class, From, it's own,
etc.

I've been adding classes and cleaning up some css and html today, so
this change discussed in this thread is currently in a non-pushed branch
(html). I'll push it to devel maybe tomorrow or Monday. So far it seems
ok. Still a lot to learn.

--
Retro Guy

On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 15:55:18 +0000, darius wrote:

> Author is not removed, it has been moved to the right of the subject:
>
> Re: Greetings (Retro Guy)
>
>
> Exactly,
>
> Author: 's field has been removed,
> violating Usenet standard
>
> Author's name is never the part of the Subject: field

As you can see from your current test, a long Subject should not remove
the From info. At least that's the plan.

--
Retro Guy

I am really sorry,
but there is no
From: field

any more

On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 22:20:59 +0000, Retro Guy wrote:

> On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 22:06:03 +0000, darius wrote:
>
>> I am really sorry,
>> but there is no
>> From: field
>>
>> any more
>
> I assumed your test was to see if a long subject line truncated the
> poster's name, but it does not. Unless it is for you, but I'm not you so
> I don't know what you're seeing.
>
> I'm attaching a pic of what I see for your message, and I see (darius)

The purpose of 'short_headers' is to take up as little space as possible
for header info. This is more toward a Forum look, not necessarily what
a seasoned Usenet user would expect.

The software provides three options:

The shortest header:
https://postimg.cc/dLgDpzWH

The standard 'short_header':
https://postimg.cc/K4vKM7kN

and The full header:
https://postimg.cc/WhPFWRh2

An admin can choose whatever they prefer. Maybe in the future I'll make
it a User Configuration selection, but not right now.

--
Retro Guy

Ok, you are smart developer, smart admin
but what matters is Usenet Standard

so "From" is the reqired header line

not to fool readers about the name of a genuine poster of a message.

Appending the name of the genuine poster to the Subject line is against
the Usenet Standard and is misguiding to the whole Usenet Community
world-wide
--

The required header lines are "From", "Date", "Newsgroups", "Subject",
"Message-ID", and "Path". The optional header lines are "Followup-To",
"Expires", "Reply-To", "Sender", "References", "Control",
"Distribution", "Keywords", "Summary", "Approved", "Lines", "Xref", and
"Organization". Each of these header lines will be described below.

2.1. Required Header lines

https://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc1036/rfc1036.html

Network Working Group M. Horton
Request for Comments: 1036 AT&T Bell Laboratories
Obsoletes: rfc850 R. Adams
Center for Seismic Studies
December 1987

Standard for Interchange of USENET Messages

On Sun, 27 Oct 2024 17:00:34 +0000, darius wrote:

> Ok, you are smart developer, smart admin
> but what matters is Usenet Standard
>
> so "From" is the reqired header line
>
> not to fool readers about the name of a genuine poster of a message.

There is no intention to fool anyone.

> Appending the name of the genuine poster to the Subject line is against
> the Usenet Standard and is misguiding to the whole Usenet Community
> world-wide

I'm not sure it has any effect on anyone reading articles not using
these sites. The rest of the Usenet community doesn't know, or probably
care how the info is presented on some web interface they don't use.

> Standard for Interchange of USENET Messages

That is correct, the From: header is required as stated above for the
"Standard for Interchange of USENET Messages"

This does not describe how a reader may present the information, but how
messages are exchanged. Nothing is changed in the actual headers of
messages on these sites, only the forum style display. Each admin can
choose their own preferred display.

Click on 'Show Headers' and you'll see the From: line remains in the
actual article Usenet header. Without it, you can't sync with other
servers, which is why we maintain the "Standard for Interchange of
USENET Messages".

I'll probably add a configuration toggle so users can change it if they
wish, but that is not done yet.

--
Retro Guy

Electronic mail, Usenet message, follow standards developed and set up
by The Universal Postal Union for surface mail.

What's more, every Usenet message is copyrighted, so any modification to
the content of the Subject line violates copyrights.

AI, Open AI, Chat GPT
can read content generated by your server as ASCII or as images
converted into ASCII via OCR.

AI, Open AI, Chat GPT can publish such content on the Internet or use to
feed knowledge databases, generating mess, since the original poster can
find his, her posts sent to Usenet, modified without any authorization
or his, her consent.

So every field in the header of Usenet message must be kept clean,
unmodified, as selected and entered by the genuine author of the message
and every Usenet reader must follow the above standard.
----

The Universal Postal Union is a United Nations specialized agency and
the postal sector's primary forum for international cooperation.

https://www.upu.int/en/home

Standards are necessary for effective postal operations and to
interconnect the global postal network.

The UPU International Bureau manages the publication of UPU standards,
coordinates standardization activities and provides assistance on
standardization matters. Contact: standards@upu.int.

Compliance to UPU standards is also checked, with a dedicated UPU
project. Check details in this page.

https://www.upu.int/en/Postal-Solutions/Programmes-Services/Standards

Catalogue of
UPU Standards

https://www.upu.int/UPU/media/upu/documents/Standards/Catalogue-of-UPU-standards.pdf

UPU standards glossary

https://www.upu.int/UPU/media/upu/documents/Standards/UPU-Standards-Glossary.pdf

On Sun, 27 Oct 2024 19:18:28 +0000, darius wrote:

> Electronic mail, Usenet message, follow standards developed and set up
> by The Universal Postal Union for surface mail.

How does the UPU control Usenet? Creating standards for the efficient
transfer of postal mail around the world, sure, but Usenet is not
'Postal'.

> What's more, every Usenet message is copyrighted, so any modification to
> the content of the Subject line violates copyrights.
>
> AI, Open AI, Chat GPT
> can read content generated by your server as ASCII or as images
> converted into ASCII via OCR.
>
> AI, Open AI, Chat GPT can publish such content on the Internet or use to
> feed knowledge databases, generating mess, since the original poster can
> find his, her posts sent to Usenet, modified without any authorization
> or his, her consent.

I don't doubt one bit that AI can screw up data. It already does, and it
will continue to do so. Just look at Google search results that snip
content and push the rest together, which can make data from a page look
like it means something completely different. Or more often, make no
sense.

> So every field in the header of Usenet message must be kept clean,
> unmodified, as selected and entered by the genuine author of the message
> and every Usenet reader must follow the above standard.

I disagree that the UPU has any authority over how some lame web forum
presents it's data.

> Compliance to UPU standards is also checked, with a dedicated UPU
> project. Check details in this page.

Good. I'll wait for a letter from them. Otherwise, admins can choose the
format of the display.

--
Retro Guy

darius,

Take a look at it now and see if it's more to your liking.

I want the option to remove a line from the display, but I've added
'From: ' to the name.

I don't want an unhappy darius if I can avoid it.

--
Retro Guy

The "From:" field in Usenet is crucial for several reasons:

Identification: It helps identify the sender of a message, allowing
readers to know who is posting. This is important in community
discussions, where the reputation and credibility of the poster can
influence the conversation.

Attribution: Proper attribution allows for accountability. Users can
follow up on discussions, respond to specific individuals, or reference
past posts more easily.

Filtering: Users can filter or sort messages based on the sender.
This is useful in managing the volume of posts, especially in busy
newsgroups.

Avoiding Spam and Abuse: Clear identification helps in moderating
content. If a sender is known for spamming or abusive behavior, others
can easily avoid or report them.

Context: The "From:" field can provide context regarding the
message’s content. Different users may have different perspectives, and
knowing who is speaking can help readers understand the viewpoint being
presented.

In summary, the "From:" field enhances communication, accountability,
and organization within the Usenet community.

On Sun, 27 Oct 2024 22:49:27 +0000, darius wrote:

> The "From:" field in Usenet is crucial for several reasons:
>
> Identification: It helps identify the sender of a message, allowing
> readers to know who is posting. This is important in community
> discussions, where the reputation and credibility of the poster can
> influence the conversation.
>
> Attribution: Proper attribution allows for accountability. Users can
> follow up on discussions, respond to specific individuals, or reference
> past posts more easily.
>
> Filtering: Users can filter or sort messages based on the sender.
> This is useful in managing the volume of posts, especially in busy
> newsgroups.
>
> Avoiding Spam and Abuse: Clear identification helps in moderating
> content. If a sender is known for spamming or abusive behavior, others
> can easily avoid or report them.
>
> Context: The "From:" field can provide context regarding the
> message’s content. Different users may have different perspectives, and
> knowing who is speaking can help readers understand the viewpoint being
> presented.
>
> In summary, the "From:" field enhances communication, accountability,
> and organization within the Usenet community.

The From: data was never missing, it was placed in a new location.
Filtering still works on the site by From:.

Now it says, 'From: ' because I aim to please.

Anyoone who was using a newsreader to view the site received the 'From: '
header just like from any other nntp server.

darius wrote:

> Electronic mail, Usenet message, follow standards developed and set up
> by The Universal Postal Union for surface mail.

It doesn't.

> What's more, every Usenet message is copyrighted,

It isn't.

> so any modification to
> the content of the Subject line violates copyrights.

It doesn't.

> So every field in the header of Usenet message must be kept clean,
> unmodified, as selected and entered by the genuine author of the message
> and every Usenet reader must follow the above standard.

They don't.

-thh

Yes, messages sent to Usenet are generally subject to copyright. The
authors of the messages retain copyright over their original content,
just like any other written work. However, Usenet's decentralized and
open nature can complicate the enforcement of copyright, as messages can
be copied and redistributed by others. It's important to respect
copyright laws and the rights of authors when sharing or using content
from Usenet.

On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 10:17:06 +0000
manta103g@gmail.com (darius) wrote:

> Yes, messages sent to Usenet are generally subject to copyright. The
> authors of the messages retain copyright over their original content,
> just like any other written work. However, Usenet's decentralized and
> open nature can complicate the enforcement of copyright, as messages can
> be copied and redistributed by others. It's important to respect
> copyright laws and the rights of authors when sharing or using content
> from Usenet.

We wouldn't want your valuable articles being pirated!

In order to respect your 'special' view of copyright I will begin purging any of your posts found on my servers. I will add your email address(es) to the spam filters on all of my NNTP servers and in my newsreader clients. You need not worry about me violating your copyright for your concern troll postings. I wouldn't dream of reproducing your articles for others to pirate.. Your rights are safe with me as sysop on the case!

To assist other admins in respecting the holy copyright of 'darius' I provide you with this regex for your filters:

From: /manta103g@gmail\.com/i

Might I suggest that you NNTP sysops get busy protecting the copyrights of darius ... or protecting the rest of your users from his concern troll copyrights?

Enjoy your copyright!

<plonk>

--
Byrl Raze Buckbriar . OCTADE . < https://octade.net >
Hacker Hotline . voice & SMS . (781) OCT-AGON
KeyOxide . < https://keyoxide.org/keyoxide0@octade.net >

In the U.S., internet copyrights are primarily protected under the
Copyright Act of 1976, which grants creators exclusive rights to their
works. Here’s an overview of how these protections work and examples of
violations that can lead to court orders:
Copyright Protection

Automatic Protection: Copyright protection is automatic upon the
creation of an original work fixed in a tangible medium (e.g., text,
music, images).
Registration: While not required, registering a work with the U.S.
Copyright Office provides legal advantages, including the ability to sue
for statutory damages and attorney fees.
Exclusive Rights: Copyright holders have exclusive rights to
reproduce, distribute, perform, display, and create derivative works
based on their original work.

Common Violations

Unauthorized Reproduction: Copying and distributing copyrighted
material without permission, such as pirating software or sharing music
files.
Public Performance: Playing copyrighted music in public venues
without appropriate licenses can lead to violations.
Digital Distribution: Uploading copyrighted videos or images to
websites without authorization.
Circumventing Copyright Protection: Bypassing digital rights
management (DRM) protections on software or media.

Legal Consequences

Violations can result in various court orders, including:

Injunctions: Courts may order the infringer to stop using the
copyrighted material.
Monetary Damages: Courts can award statutory damages (up to $150,000
per work for willful infringement) or actual damages (the amount the
copyright owner lost).
Destruction of Infringing Copies: Courts may order the destruction
of materials that violate copyright.
Attorney's Fees: In some cases, the prevailing party may recover
attorney's fees.

Enforcement

Copyright holders can enforce their rights through:

DMCA Takedown Notices: Under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act,
copyright owners can request the removal of infringing content from
websites.
Litigation: Copyright owners can sue for infringement in federal
court.

By utilizing these mechanisms, copyright protection aims to balance the
rights of creators with the public's access to information and culture.

On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 11:55:27 +0000, darius wrote:

> In the U.S., internet copyrights are primarily protected under the
> Copyright Act of 1976, which grants creators exclusive rights to their
> works. Here’s an overview of how these protections work and examples of
> violations that can lead to court orders:

<snip>

All this because the Poster's name was moved to a different line.

--
Retro Guy

On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 13:16:29 +0000
Retro Guy <retroguy@novabbs.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 11:55:27 +0000, darius wrote:
>
> > In the U.S., internet copyrights are primarily protected under the
> > Copyright Act of 1976, which grants creators exclusive rights to their
> > works. Here’s an overview of how these protections work and examples of
> > violations that can lead to court orders:
>
> <snip>
>
> All this because the Poster's name was moved to a different line.
>
> --
> Retro Guy

I should upgrade his status from concern troll to concern copyright troll. ;)

At least I have an excuse to practice the use of NoCem on Rocksolid Light.

Time to get busy protecting his copyright! Chop, chop!

--
Byrl Raze Buckbriar . OCTADE . < https://octade.net >
Hacker Hotline . voice & SMS . (781) OCT-AGON
KeyOxide . < https://keyoxide.org/keyoxide0@octade.net >

On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 13:16:29 +0000
Retro Guy <retroguy@novabbs.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 11:55:27 +0000, darius wrote:
>
> > In the U.S., internet copyrights are primarily protected under the
> > Copyright Act of 1976, which grants creators exclusive rights to their
> > works. Here’s an overview of how these protections work and examples of
> > violations that can lead to court orders:
>
> <snip>
>
> All this because the Poster's name was moved to a different line.
>
> --
> Retro Guy

Wisdom for the day .....

If you can't find beefs craft one from butter.

Try to turn a block of butter back into a cow.

--
Byrl Raze Buckbriar . OCTADE . < https://octade.net >
Hacker Hotline . voice & SMS . (781) OCT-AGON
KeyOxide . < https://keyoxide.org/keyoxide0@octade.net >