On 2024-10-24 15:38, Tom Elam wrote:
> On 10/15/2024 12:23 PM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-10-15 08:09, Tom Elam wrote:
>>> On 10/12/2024 11:46 AM, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-10-12 04:36, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>> On 10/11/2024 2:17 AM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 17:46, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 13:30, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...ON THE TRACK:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/365/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So why is the field mostly Hondas?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more profitable things.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, gee, what do you know?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "uncompetitive" Kent...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who'd have thought it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Really?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1st in Provisional Results
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR
>>>>>>>>>>>> 6.11.1.D,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule
>>>>>>>>>>> infraction involved...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating.
>>>>>>>>>> You said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
>>>>>>>>>> the when confronted with the truth changed it to "could have
>>>>>>>>>> won", Liarboy. So typical of you.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have
>>>>>>>>> been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that
>>>>>>>>> he moved to aggressively to defend his position, and having
>>>>>>>>> seen the video, that's certainly true. But your claim has
>>>>>>>>> always been that the Ford can't be competitive with the Honda
>>>>>>>>> and there's no way that can be true if a Ford can be in the
>>>>>>>>> lead on the last lap of the race.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
>>>>>>>> won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one
>>>>>>>> race I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the
>>>>>>>> race. That is not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking
>>>>>>>> another driver. Had he not done so he might have not placed
>>>>>>>> first in the provisional standings. In other words, he cheated
>>>>>>>> the other driver out of an opportunity to pass and was
>>>>>>>> appropriately penalized. Had he followed the rules he very
>>>>>>>> likely would not have even won a provisional first.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have
>>>>>>>> been VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If
>>>>>>>> they were competitive on performance and cost there would be
>>>>>>>> more. If the Kent was a better engine overall on performance and
>>>>>>>> cost the Kent would dominate. Even you agree. After all you
>>>>>>>> bought a Honda- powered car, Liarboy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
>>>>>>>> profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not
>>>>>>>> competitive when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the
>>>>>>>> money on the Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a
>>>>>>>> consistent basis? YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so
>>>>>>>> scarce in the Runoffs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are
>>>>>>>> more than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good.
>>>>>>>> Major traits of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another
>>>>>>>> trait of the narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit
>>>>>>>> being wrong, or that the other person who disagrees with you is
>>>>>>>> right. Such people are also totally blind to their disorder.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just for absolute clarity, Liarboy:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I posted about the Runoffs win at 16:20PDT on October 4...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...and the official results weren't posted until 17:00 (Wisconsin
>>>>>>> time presumably)...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...on October 5.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just another example of your careful understanding of the
>>>>>>> situation, hmmm?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <crickets.wav>
>>>>>
>>>>> Competition weeds out the weak - individuals, companies, entire
>>>>> species, and race car engines. HH has confused cause and effect.
>>>>> The cause of so few Kents at this level of competition is that all
>>>>> things considered they are not competitive. If the Kent is, all
>>>>> things considered, a more competitive engine than the Honda, there
>>>>> would be a lot more entered. The Runoffs FF engine market has for
>>>>> years been dominated by Honda. Prove me wrong.
>>>>
>>>> I don't HAVE to "prove" you wrong, you mendacious asshole.
>>>>
>>>> You are literally parroting back to me what I explained to you when
>>>> you tried to claim that using a Honda made the car faster...
>>>>
>>>> ...ON THE TRACK,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Alan, you were in such a rush to brag about that outcome you did
>>>>> not even wait for the official results. Then after they were posted
>>>>> you never corrected your post. Liar either way. Yes, it was a case
>>>>> of cheating. That driver was not allowing faster cars to pass. Do
>>>>> you understand that the fact that he had to do that meant under the
>>>>> rules he illegally placed first? Or that other cars were faster?
>>>>
>>>> I only just discovered the the fact a couple of days ago.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I never claimed that a Kent can't win a race. I'm looking at FF
>>>>> engine choices. Can the Kent compete straight-up against the Honda?
>>>>> Interesting question, no?
>>>>
>>>> What you claimed (and I have the receipts) is that a Honda was
>>>> faster...
>>>>
>>>> ...ON THE TRACK.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In fact, in 2011 SCCA established Formula 1600, limited to the Kent
>>>>> engine cars. These cars are eligible for FF races too. Do they show
>>>>> up at Runoffs? Yes. Likely only the best do that. Did any show up
>>>>> this year? Just one. So why do we now have a class limited to the
>>>>> Kent? Why not just one class?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And where did you pull this revelation from, Liarboy?
>>>>
>>>> Because it is absolutely not true:
>>>>
>>>> 'FORMULA
>>>>
>>>> The eight formula classes are all single-seat, open wheel racecars.
>>>> They are built to detailed specifications for weight, size and
>>>> engine displacement. There are incredible power to weight ratios in
>>>> each class. The classes in order of fastest to slowest are: Formula
>>>> Atlantic® (FA), Formula 1000 (FB), Formula SCCA® (FE), Formula
>>>> Continental® (FC), Formula Mazda (FM), Formula F (FF), Formula 500
>>>> (F500) and Formula Vee® (FV).'
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.scca.com/pages/car-classifications-and-groups>
>>>>
>>>> There is no SCCA class called "Formula 1600". There IS a race series
>>>> called "F1600" which was created by the SCCA in 2011 as a
>>>> professional series for Formula F cars.
>>>>
>>>> But the cars are run under precisely the same rules as the SCCA's
>>>> amateur series. Including the legality of the Honda.
>>>>
>>>> My guess is that you saw the same, and simply assumed that since
>>>> there was "1600" in the name, it must obviously have meant the
>>>> 1,600cc Kent engine and not the 1,500cc Honda.
>>>>
>>>> For a Ph.D., you really seem to lack the ability to do diligent
>>>> research, don't you?
>>>>
>>>>> In fact, over in England the Brands Hatch Formula Ford Festival is
>>>>> restricted to Kent engines. https://www.brandshatch.co.uk/2024/
>>>>> october/ formula-ford-festival
>>>>>
>>>>> Why is that? Why not allow Honda engines to compete too? What are
>>>>> they afraid of?
>>>>
>>>> They simply went a different way, Liarboy.
>>>>
>>>> In the US, there was a problem because the number of engine blocks
>>>> for building Kent engines was drying up. And because Ford wasn't
>>>> interested in doing anything to alleviate the situation, an engine
>>>> builder (Quicksilver in Maryland) came up with a solution to the
>>>> problem. They adapted the Honda Fit 1500cc engine to use in place of
>>>> the Kent, because (most importantly) it was physically small enough
>>>> that it would fit in the engine bays of most cars built for the Kent
>>>> even after adding an adapter plate between the engine and
>>>> bellhousing (otherwise the bolt holes on each wouldn't line up).
>>>> Then the carefully programmed an ECU and included a restrictor in
>>>> what would otherwise have been a 50mm throttle body, and after
>>>> starting with too small a size, adjusted it upward until they landed
>>>> on a 30.5mm restrictor to equalize the Honda with the Kent.
>>>>
>>>> In the UK, they addressed the issue of the drying up of Kent engines
>>>> earlier, and created a version of Formula Ford using Ford's Zetec
>>>> engine in 1993, and then later switching to the Ford Duratec engine
>>>> for 2006.
>>>>
>>>> But there was no attempt made to equalize the performance of the
>>>> two, but also no need for them to build a version with a Honda engine.
>>>>
>>>> So for the years 1993 to 2005, the overall Formula Ford Festival was
>>>> using a Zetec engine, and from 2006 to 2012 it was using the
>>>> Duratec, while they award a separate for the Kent-powered cars for
>>>> some of those years.
>>>>
>>>> And in years 2009 to 2012, they awarded all three engines separately.
>>>>
>>>> But you aren't even really aware that there are differences between
>>>> the classes called "Formula Ford" in different parts of the world,
>>>> are you?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, I am aware. I stand corrected when I stated that F1600 does not
>>> allow the Honda engine. Do I ever! The Honda dominates F1600, having
>>> won every season championship since 2012.
>>
>> I notice that you don't acknowledge your bullshit about FF in the UK.
>
> What BS? The Brands Hatch FF event I refer to is Kent Ford engines only.
>
> Why not run against the Honda?

Because, you incredible ignoramus, the Honda was never added to the
class in England.