On 10/15/2024 12:23 PM, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-10-15 08:09, Tom Elam wrote:
>> On 10/12/2024 11:46 AM, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-10-12 04:36, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>> On 10/11/2024 2:17 AM, Alan wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-10-10 17:46, Alan wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 13:30, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...ON THE TRACK:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/365/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So why is the field mostly Hondas?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> more profitable things.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And, gee, what do you know?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The "uncompetitive" Kent...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Who'd have thought it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Really?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results,
>>>>>>>>>>> 1st in Provisional Results
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR
>>>>>>>>>>> 6.11.1.D,
>>>>>>>>>>> Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule
>>>>>>>>>> infraction involved...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating.
>>>>>>>>> You said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
>>>>>>>>> the when confronted with the truth changed it to "could have
>>>>>>>>> won", Liarboy. So typical of you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have
>>>>>>>> been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that
>>>>>>>> he moved to aggressively to defend his position, and having seen
>>>>>>>> the video, that's certainly true. But your claim has always been
>>>>>>>> that the Ford can't be competitive with the Honda and there's no
>>>>>>>> way that can be true if a Ford can be in the lead on the last
>>>>>>>> lap of the race.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
>>>>>>> won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one
>>>>>>> race I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race.
>>>>>>> That is not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking
>>>>>>> another driver. Had he not done so he might have not placed first
>>>>>>> in the provisional standings. In other words, he cheated the
>>>>>>> other driver out of an opportunity to pass and was appropriately
>>>>>>> penalized. Had he followed the rules he very likely would not
>>>>>>> have even won a provisional first.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have
>>>>>>> been VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If
>>>>>>> they were competitive on performance and cost there would be
>>>>>>> more. If the Kent was a better engine overall on performance and
>>>>>>> cost the Kent would dominate. Even you agree. After all you
>>>>>>> bought a Honda- powered car, Liarboy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
>>>>>>> profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not
>>>>>>> competitive when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the
>>>>>>> money on the Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a
>>>>>>> consistent basis? YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so
>>>>>>> scarce in the Runoffs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are
>>>>>>> more than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major
>>>>>>> traits of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of
>>>>>>> the narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit being
>>>>>>> wrong, or that the other person who disagrees with you is right.
>>>>>>> Such people are also totally blind to their disorder.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just for absolute clarity, Liarboy:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I posted about the Runoffs win at 16:20PDT on October 4...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...and the official results weren't posted until 17:00 (Wisconsin
>>>>>> time presumably)...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...on October 5.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just another example of your careful understanding of the
>>>>>> situation, hmmm?
>>>>>
>>>>> <crickets.wav>
>>>>
>>>> Competition weeds out the weak - individuals, companies, entire
>>>> species, and race car engines. HH has confused cause and effect. The
>>>> cause of so few Kents at this level of competition is that all
>>>> things considered they are not competitive. If the Kent is, all
>>>> things considered, a more competitive engine than the Honda, there
>>>> would be a lot more entered. The Runoffs FF engine market has for
>>>> years been dominated by Honda. Prove me wrong.
>>>
>>> I don't HAVE to "prove" you wrong, you mendacious asshole.
>>>
>>> You are literally parroting back to me what I explained to you when
>>> you tried to claim that using a Honda made the car faster...
>>>
>>> ...ON THE TRACK,
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Alan, you were in such a rush to brag about that outcome you did not
>>>> even wait for the official results. Then after they were posted you
>>>> never corrected your post. Liar either way. Yes, it was a case of
>>>> cheating. That driver was not allowing faster cars to pass. Do you
>>>> understand that the fact that he had to do that meant under the
>>>> rules he illegally placed first? Or that other cars were faster?
>>>
>>> I only just discovered the the fact a couple of days ago.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I never claimed that a Kent can't win a race. I'm looking at FF
>>>> engine choices. Can the Kent compete straight-up against the Honda?
>>>> Interesting question, no?
>>>
>>> What you claimed (and I have the receipts) is that a Honda was faster...
>>>
>>> ...ON THE TRACK.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> In fact, in 2011 SCCA established Formula 1600, limited to the Kent
>>>> engine cars. These cars are eligible for FF races too. Do they show
>>>> up at Runoffs? Yes. Likely only the best do that. Did any show up
>>>> this year? Just one. So why do we now have a class limited to the
>>>> Kent? Why not just one class?
>>>>
>>>
>>> And where did you pull this revelation from, Liarboy?
>>>
>>> Because it is absolutely not true:
>>>
>>> 'FORMULA
>>>
>>> The eight formula classes are all single-seat, open wheel racecars.
>>> They are built to detailed specifications for weight, size and engine
>>> displacement. There are incredible power to weight ratios in each
>>> class. The classes in order of fastest to slowest are: Formula
>>> Atlantic® (FA), Formula 1000 (FB), Formula SCCA® (FE), Formula
>>> Continental® (FC), Formula Mazda (FM), Formula F (FF), Formula 500
>>> (F500) and Formula Vee® (FV).'
>>>
>>> <https://www.scca.com/pages/car-classifications-and-groups>
>>>
>>> There is no SCCA class called "Formula 1600". There IS a race series
>>> called "F1600" which was created by the SCCA in 2011 as a
>>> professional series for Formula F cars.
>>>
>>> But the cars are run under precisely the same rules as the SCCA's
>>> amateur series. Including the legality of the Honda.
>>>
>>> My guess is that you saw the same, and simply assumed that since
>>> there was "1600" in the name, it must obviously have meant the
>>> 1,600cc Kent engine and not the 1,500cc Honda.
>>>
>>> For a Ph.D., you really seem to lack the ability to do diligent
>>> research, don't you?
>>>
>>>> In fact, over in England the Brands Hatch Formula Ford Festival is
>>>> restricted to Kent engines. https://www.brandshatch.co.uk/2024/
>>>> october/ formula-ford-festival
>>>>
>>>> Why is that? Why not allow Honda engines to compete too? What are
>>>> they afraid of?
>>>
>>> They simply went a different way, Liarboy.
>>>
>>> In the US, there was a problem because the number of engine blocks
>>> for building Kent engines was drying up. And because Ford wasn't
>>> interested in doing anything to alleviate the situation, an engine
>>> builder (Quicksilver in Maryland) came up with a solution to the
>>> problem. They adapted the Honda Fit 1500cc engine to use in place of
>>> the Kent, because (most importantly) it was physically small enough
>>> that it would fit in the engine bays of most cars built for the Kent
>>> even after adding an adapter plate between the engine and bellhousing
>>> (otherwise the bolt holes on each wouldn't line up). Then the
>>> carefully programmed an ECU and included a restrictor in what would
>>> otherwise have been a 50mm throttle body, and after starting with too
>>> small a size, adjusted it upward until they landed on a 30.5mm
>>> restrictor to equalize the Honda with the Kent.
>>>
>>> In the UK, they addressed the issue of the drying up of Kent engines
>>> earlier, and created a version of Formula Ford using Ford's Zetec
>>> engine in 1993, and then later switching to the Ford Duratec engine
>>> for 2006.
>>>
>>> But there was no attempt made to equalize the performance of the two,
>>> but also no need for them to build a version with a Honda engine.
>>>
>>> So for the years 1993 to 2005, the overall Formula Ford Festival was
>>> using a Zetec engine, and from 2006 to 2012 it was using the Duratec,
>>> while they award a separate for the Kent-powered cars for some of
>>> those years.
>>>
>>> And in years 2009 to 2012, they awarded all three engines separately.
>>>
>>> But you aren't even really aware that there are differences between
>>> the classes called "Formula Ford" in different parts of the world,
>>> are you?
>>>
>>
>> Yes, I am aware. I stand corrected when I stated that F1600 does not
>> allow the Honda engine. Do I ever! The Honda dominates F1600, having
>> won every season championship since 2012.
>
> I notice that you don't acknowledge your bullshit about FF in the UK.

What BS? The Brands Hatch FF event I refer to is Kent Ford engines only.

Why not run against the Honda?

https://brscc.co.uk/formulae/brscc-formula-ford-festival/

P Class Kent-engined Formula Ford chassis built in 1999 or younger

Super Classic A Kent-engined Formula Ford chassis built between 1998 and
1990

Super Classic B Kent-engined Formula Ford chassis built between 1989 and
1982

Super Classic C Kent-engined Formula Ford chassis built between 1981 and
1972

Super Classic D Kent-engined Formula Ford chassis built before 1972