On 2024-10-15 08:09, Tom Elam wrote:
> On 10/12/2024 11:46 AM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-10-12 04:36, Tom Elam wrote:
>>> On 10/11/2024 2:17 AM, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-10-10 17:46, Alan wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-10-10 13:30, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> ...ON THE TRACK:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in
>>>>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/365/
>>>>>>>>>>>> FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The
>>>>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So why is the field mostly Hondas?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on
>>>>>>>>>>>> more profitable things.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And, gee, what do you know?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The "uncompetitive" Kent...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Who'd have thought it?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Really?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results,
>>>>>>>>>> 1st in Provisional Results
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR
>>>>>>>>>> 6.11.1.D,
>>>>>>>>>> Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule
>>>>>>>>> infraction involved...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating.
>>>>>>>> You said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
>>>>>>>> the when confronted with the truth changed it to "could have
>>>>>>>> won", Liarboy. So typical of you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have
>>>>>>> been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that he
>>>>>>> moved to aggressively to defend his position, and having seen the
>>>>>>> video, that's certainly true. But your claim has always been that
>>>>>>> the Ford can't be competitive with the Honda and there's no way
>>>>>>> that can be true if a Ford can be in the lead on the last lap of
>>>>>>> the race.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
>>>>>> won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one
>>>>>> race I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race.
>>>>>> That is not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking another
>>>>>> driver. Had he not done so he might have not placed first in the
>>>>>> provisional standings. In other words, he cheated the other driver
>>>>>> out of an opportunity to pass and was appropriately penalized. Had
>>>>>> he followed the rules he very likely would not have even won a
>>>>>> provisional first.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have
>>>>>> been VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If they
>>>>>> were competitive on performance and cost there would be more. If
>>>>>> the Kent was a better engine overall on performance and cost the
>>>>>> Kent would dominate. Even you agree. After all you bought a Honda-
>>>>>> powered car, Liarboy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
>>>>>> profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not
>>>>>> competitive when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the
>>>>>> money on the Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a
>>>>>> consistent basis? YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so scarce
>>>>>> in the Runoffs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are
>>>>>> more than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major
>>>>>> traits of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of
>>>>>> the narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit being
>>>>>> wrong, or that the other person who disagrees with you is right.
>>>>>> Such people are also totally blind to their disorder.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just for absolute clarity, Liarboy:
>>>>>
>>>>> I posted about the Runoffs win at 16:20PDT on October 4...
>>>>>
>>>>> ...and the official results weren't posted until 17:00 (Wisconsin
>>>>> time presumably)...
>>>>>
>>>>> ...on October 5.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just another example of your careful understanding of the
>>>>> situation, hmmm?
>>>>
>>>> <crickets.wav>
>>>
>>> Competition weeds out the weak - individuals, companies, entire
>>> species, and race car engines. HH has confused cause and effect. The
>>> cause of so few Kents at this level of competition is that all things
>>> considered they are not competitive. If the Kent is, all things
>>> considered, a more competitive engine than the Honda, there would be
>>> a lot more entered. The Runoffs FF engine market has for years been
>>> dominated by Honda. Prove me wrong.
>>
>> I don't HAVE to "prove" you wrong, you mendacious asshole.
>>
>> You are literally parroting back to me what I explained to you when
>> you tried to claim that using a Honda made the car faster...
>>
>> ...ON THE TRACK,
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Alan, you were in such a rush to brag about that outcome you did not
>>> even wait for the official results. Then after they were posted you
>>> never corrected your post. Liar either way. Yes, it was a case of
>>> cheating. That driver was not allowing faster cars to pass. Do you
>>> understand that the fact that he had to do that meant under the rules
>>> he illegally placed first? Or that other cars were faster?
>>
>> I only just discovered the the fact a couple of days ago.
>>
>>>
>>> I never claimed that a Kent can't win a race. I'm looking at FF
>>> engine choices. Can the Kent compete straight-up against the Honda?
>>> Interesting question, no?
>>
>> What you claimed (and I have the receipts) is that a Honda was faster...
>>
>> ...ON THE TRACK.
>>
>>>
>>> In fact, in 2011 SCCA established Formula 1600, limited to the Kent
>>> engine cars. These cars are eligible for FF races too. Do they show
>>> up at Runoffs? Yes. Likely only the best do that. Did any show up
>>> this year? Just one. So why do we now have a class limited to the
>>> Kent? Why not just one class?
>>>
>>
>> And where did you pull this revelation from, Liarboy?
>>
>> Because it is absolutely not true:
>>
>> 'FORMULA
>>
>> The eight formula classes are all single-seat, open wheel racecars.
>> They are built to detailed specifications for weight, size and engine
>> displacement. There are incredible power to weight ratios in each
>> class. The classes in order of fastest to slowest are: Formula
>> Atlantic® (FA), Formula 1000 (FB), Formula SCCA® (FE), Formula
>> Continental® (FC), Formula Mazda (FM), Formula F (FF), Formula 500
>> (F500) and Formula Vee® (FV).'
>>
>> <https://www.scca.com/pages/car-classifications-and-groups>
>>
>> There is no SCCA class called "Formula 1600". There IS a race series
>> called "F1600" which was created by the SCCA in 2011 as a professional
>> series for Formula F cars.
>>
>> But the cars are run under precisely the same rules as the SCCA's
>> amateur series. Including the legality of the Honda.
>>
>> My guess is that you saw the same, and simply assumed that since there
>> was "1600" in the name, it must obviously have meant the 1,600cc Kent
>> engine and not the 1,500cc Honda.
>>
>> For a Ph.D., you really seem to lack the ability to do diligent
>> research, don't you?
>>
>>> In fact, over in England the Brands Hatch Formula Ford Festival is
>>> restricted to Kent engines. https://www.brandshatch.co.uk/2024/
>>> october/ formula-ford-festival
>>>
>>> Why is that? Why not allow Honda engines to compete too? What are
>>> they afraid of?
>>
>> They simply went a different way, Liarboy.
>>
>> In the US, there was a problem because the number of engine blocks for
>> building Kent engines was drying up. And because Ford wasn't
>> interested in doing anything to alleviate the situation, an engine
>> builder (Quicksilver in Maryland) came up with a solution to the
>> problem. They adapted the Honda Fit 1500cc engine to use in place of
>> the Kent, because (most importantly) it was physically small enough
>> that it would fit in the engine bays of most cars built for the Kent
>> even after adding an adapter plate between the engine and bellhousing
>> (otherwise the bolt holes on each wouldn't line up). Then the
>> carefully programmed an ECU and included a restrictor in what would
>> otherwise have been a 50mm throttle body, and after starting with too
>> small a size, adjusted it upward until they landed on a 30.5mm
>> restrictor to equalize the Honda with the Kent.
>>
>> In the UK, they addressed the issue of the drying up of Kent engines
>> earlier, and created a version of Formula Ford using Ford's Zetec
>> engine in 1993, and then later switching to the Ford Duratec engine
>> for 2006.
>>
>> But there was no attempt made to equalize the performance of the two,
>> but also no need for them to build a version with a Honda engine.
>>
>> So for the years 1993 to 2005, the overall Formula Ford Festival was
>> using a Zetec engine, and from 2006 to 2012 it was using the Duratec,
>> while they award a separate for the Kent-powered cars for some of
>> those years.
>>
>> And in years 2009 to 2012, they awarded all three engines separately.
>>
>> But you aren't even really aware that there are differences between
>> the classes called "Formula Ford" in different parts of the world, are
>> you?
>>
>
> Yes, I am aware. I stand corrected when I stated that F1600 does not
> allow the Honda engine. Do I ever! The Honda dominates F1600, having won
> every season championship since 2012.

I notice that you don't acknowledge your bullshit about FF in the UK.