On 10/12/2024 11:46 AM, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-10-12 04:36, Tom Elam wrote:
>> On 10/11/2024 2:17 AM, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-10-10 17:46, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-10-10 13:30, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>> On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> ...ON THE TRACK:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in
>>>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/365/
>>>>>>>>>>> FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The
>>>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So why is the field mostly Hondas?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on
>>>>>>>>>>> more profitable things.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And, gee, what do you know?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The "uncompetitive" Kent...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Who'd have thought it?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Really?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results,
>>>>>>>>> 1st in Provisional Results
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR
>>>>>>>>> 6.11.1.D,
>>>>>>>>> Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule
>>>>>>>> infraction involved...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating.
>>>>>>> You said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" the
>>>>>>> when confronted with the truth changed it to "could have won",
>>>>>>> Liarboy. So typical of you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have
>>>>>> been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that he
>>>>>> moved to aggressively to defend his position, and having seen the
>>>>>> video, that's certainly true. But your claim has always been that
>>>>>> the Ford can't be competitive with the Honda and there's no way
>>>>>> that can be true if a Ford can be in the lead on the last lap of
>>>>>> the race.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
>>>>>
>>>>> You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
>>>>> won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
>>>>>
>>>>> If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one race
>>>>> I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race. That
>>>>> is not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking another
>>>>> driver. Had he not done so he might have not placed first in the
>>>>> provisional standings. In other words, he cheated the other driver
>>>>> out of an opportunity to pass and was appropriately penalized. Had
>>>>> he followed the rules he very likely would not have even won a
>>>>> provisional first.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have
>>>>> been VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If they
>>>>> were competitive on performance and cost there would be more. If
>>>>> the Kent was a better engine overall on performance and cost the
>>>>> Kent would dominate. Even you agree. After all you bought a
>>>>> Honda-powered car, Liarboy.
>>>>>
>>>>> You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
>>>>> profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not competitive
>>>>> when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the money on the
>>>>> Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a consistent basis?
>>>>> YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so scarce in the Runoffs.
>>>>>
>>>>> In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are more
>>>>> than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major traits
>>>>> of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of the
>>>>> narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit being wrong, or
>>>>> that the other person who disagrees with you is right. Such people
>>>>> are also totally blind to their disorder.
>>>>
>>>> Just for absolute clarity, Liarboy:
>>>>
>>>> I posted about the Runoffs win at 16:20PDT on October 4...
>>>>
>>>> ...and the official results weren't posted until 17:00 (Wisconsin
>>>> time presumably)...
>>>>
>>>> ...on October 5.
>>>>
>>>> Just another example of your careful understanding of the situation,
>>>> hmmm?
>>>
>>> <crickets.wav>
>>
>> Competition weeds out the weak - individuals, companies, entire
>> species, and race car engines. HH has confused cause and effect. The
>> cause of so few Kents at this level of competition is that all things
>> considered they are not competitive. If the Kent is, all things
>> considered, a more competitive engine than the Honda, there would be a
>> lot more entered. The Runoffs FF engine market has for years been
>> dominated by Honda. Prove me wrong.
>
> I don't HAVE to "prove" you wrong, you mendacious asshole.
>
> You are literally parroting back to me what I explained to you when you
> tried to claim that using a Honda made the car faster...
>
> ...ON THE TRACK,
>
>
>>
>> Alan, you were in such a rush to brag about that outcome you did not
>> even wait for the official results. Then after they were posted you
>> never corrected your post. Liar either way. Yes, it was a case of
>> cheating. That driver was not allowing faster cars to pass. Do you
>> understand that the fact that he had to do that meant under the rules
>> he illegally placed first? Or that other cars were faster?
>
> I only just discovered the the fact a couple of days ago.
>
>>
>> I never claimed that a Kent can't win a race. I'm looking at FF engine
>> choices. Can the Kent compete straight-up against the Honda?
>> Interesting question, no?
>
> What you claimed (and I have the receipts) is that a Honda was faster...
>
> ...ON THE TRACK.
>
>>
>> In fact, in 2011 SCCA established Formula 1600, limited to the Kent
>> engine cars. These cars are eligible for FF races too. Do they show up
>> at Runoffs? Yes. Likely only the best do that. Did any show up this
>> year? Just one. So why do we now have a class limited to the Kent? Why
>> not just one class?
>>
>
> And where did you pull this revelation from, Liarboy?
>
> Because it is absolutely not true:
>
> 'FORMULA
>
> The eight formula classes are all single-seat, open wheel racecars. They
> are built to detailed specifications for weight, size and engine
> displacement. There are incredible power to weight ratios in each class.
> The classes in order of fastest to slowest are: Formula Atlantic® (FA),
> Formula 1000 (FB), Formula SCCA® (FE), Formula Continental® (FC),
> Formula Mazda (FM), Formula F (FF), Formula 500 (F500) and Formula Vee®
> (FV).'
>
> <https://www.scca.com/pages/car-classifications-and-groups>
>
> There is no SCCA class called "Formula 1600". There IS a race series
> called "F1600" which was created by the SCCA in 2011 as a professional
> series for Formula F cars.
>
> But the cars are run under precisely the same rules as the SCCA's
> amateur series. Including the legality of the Honda.
>
> My guess is that you saw the same, and simply assumed that since there
> was "1600" in the name, it must obviously have meant the 1,600cc Kent
> engine and not the 1,500cc Honda.
>
> For a Ph.D., you really seem to lack the ability to do diligent
> research, don't you?
>
>> In fact, over in England the Brands Hatch Formula Ford Festival is
>> restricted to Kent engines.
>> https://www.brandshatch.co.uk/2024/october/ formula-ford-festival
>>
>> Why is that? Why not allow Honda engines to compete too? What are they
>> afraid of?
>
> They simply went a different way, Liarboy.
>
> In the US, there was a problem because the number of engine blocks for
> building Kent engines was drying up. And because Ford wasn't interested
> in doing anything to alleviate the situation, an engine builder
> (Quicksilver in Maryland) came up with a solution to the problem. They
> adapted the Honda Fit 1500cc engine to use in place of the Kent, because
> (most importantly) it was physically small enough that it would fit in
> the engine bays of most cars built for the Kent even after adding an
> adapter plate between the engine and bellhousing (otherwise the bolt
> holes on each wouldn't line up). Then the carefully programmed an ECU
> and included a restrictor in what would otherwise have been a 50mm
> throttle body, and after starting with too small a size, adjusted it
> upward until they landed on a 30.5mm restrictor to equalize the Honda
> with the Kent.
>
> In the UK, they addressed the issue of the drying up of Kent engines
> earlier, and created a version of Formula Ford using Ford's Zetec engine
> in 1993, and then later switching to the Ford Duratec engine for 2006.
>
> But there was no attempt made to equalize the performance of the two,
> but also no need for them to build a version with a Honda engine.
>
> So for the years 1993 to 2005, the overall Formula Ford Festival was
> using a Zetec engine, and from 2006 to 2012 it was using the Duratec,
> while they award a separate for the Kent-powered cars for some of those
> years.
>
> And in years 2009 to 2012, they awarded all three engines separately.
>
> But you aren't even really aware that there are differences between the
> classes called "Formula Ford" in different parts of the world, are you?
>

Yes, I am aware. I stand corrected when I stated that F1600 does not
allow the Honda engine. Do I ever! The Honda dominates F1600, having won
every season championship since 2012.