On 10/11/2024 7:38 AM, -hh wrote:
> On 10/11/24 1:59 AM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-10-10 20:17, Tom Elam wrote:
>>> On 10/10/2024 5:14 PM, -hh wrote:
>>>> On 10/10/24 4:30 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>> On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> ...ON THE TRACK:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in
>>>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/365/
>>>>>>>>>>> FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The
>>>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So why is the field mostly Hondas?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on
>>>>>>>>>>> more profitable things.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And, gee, what do you know?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The "uncompetitive" Kent...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Who'd have thought it?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Really?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results,
>>>>>>>>> 1st in Provisional Results
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR
>>>>>>>>> 6.11.1.D,
>>>>>>>>> Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule
>>>>>>>> infraction involved...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating.
>>>>>>> You said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" the
>>>>>>> when confronted with the truth changed it to "could have won",
>>>>>>> Liarboy. So typical of you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have
>>>>>> been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that he
>>>>>> moved to aggressively to defend his position, and having seen the
>>>>>> video, that's certainly true. But your claim has always been that
>>>>>> the Ford can't be competitive with the Honda and there's no way
>>>>>> that can be true if a Ford can be in the lead on the last lap of
>>>>>> the race.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
>>>>>
>>>>> You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
>>>>> won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
>>>>>
>>>>> If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one race
>>>>> I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race. That
>>>>> is not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking another
>>>>> driver. Had he not done so he might have not placed first in the
>>>>> provisional standings. In other words, he cheated the other driver
>>>>> out of an opportunity to pass and was appropriately penalized. Had
>>>>> he followed the rules he very likely would not have even won a
>>>>> provisional first.
>>>>
>>>> Such rule infractions often have a big old dose of grey.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have
>>>>> been VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If they
>>>>> were competitive on performance and cost there would be more. If
>>>>> the Kent was a better engine overall on performance and cost the
>>>>> Kent would dominate. Even you agree. After all you bought a
>>>>> Honda-powered car, Liarboy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, it doesn't really matter if its one team or a dozen
>>>> teams that get to the final rounds:  it is as if you're trying to
>>>> claim that the baseball team that loses in the World Series must
>>>> "suck" because they didn't win in the final round.  Sorry, but they
>>>> had to have beaten a lot of other teams before they got to the final
>>>> rounds.  Point is that the mere presence of a Kent in the finals
>>>> indicates that the Formula organizers have done a good job in
>>>> balancing their index of performance.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
>>>>> profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not competitive
>>>>> when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the money on the
>>>>> Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a consistent basis?
>>>>> YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so scarce in the Runoffs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No, that's trying to incorrectly use a statistical bias to make an
>>>> invalid claim:  that a Kent requires higher maintenance explains why
>>>> fewer teams run that combination, not that it isn't just as good of
>>>> a performer on the track.
>>>>
>>>> In a competitive field which has weeded out the lower performing
>>>> ones in qualifying rounds, if 90% of the teams have a red car (eg
>>>> Honda) and the outcome is purely random chance, reversion to the
>>>> means means that there's a 90% probability that the winning car is
>>>> going to be red.
>>>>
>>>> Same principle applies here:  if Kents really are objectively
>>>> inferior performers on the track, then the above 'random chance'
>>>> doesn't apply and they wouldn't have placed high enough in the prior
>>>> elimination rounds to even appear as 5% of the field in the finals.
>>>>
>>>> OTOH, when they are objectively even on the track, then their
>>>> representation in the final playoff field should be similar to what
>>>> % of the total population of competitive cars are fielded, no matter
>>>> if that's 10%, 50% or 90%.  Ditto for Honda.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are more
>>>>> than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major traits
>>>>> of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of the
>>>>> narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit being wrong, or
>>>>> that the other person who disagrees with you is right. Such people
>>>>> are also totally blind to their disorder.
>>>>
>>>> Speaking of disorders, the above is pretty basic statistics when
>>>> examining factors within populations:  why did you miss it so badly?
>>>>
>>>> -hh
>>>
>>> Thanks for validating all my arguments. There are so few Kents in the
>>> runoffs because the Kent-powered car are either so inferior that
>>> there are few left or if their are many they don't perform well
>>> enough to make the Runoffs.
>>
>> Way to misunderstand every argument he made, Asshole.
>
>
> Unsurprising that Tommy believed I was affirming him, not debunking him.
>
>> Are you sure you have a Ph.D.?
>
> If he did, it wasn't in anything STEM which required mathematics.
>
>
> -hh
>

HH, I do know math and stats. The fact that there are so few Kent cars
that make the Runoffs and that in general they finish poorly says they
are not competitive at this level. There are statistical outliers in the
last 2 years. Results:

2024 - 1 car finished 8th, 13 cars running
2023 - 1 Kent (won the race), 8 cars running
2022 - 2 Kents finished 3rd and 12th, 13 cars running
2021 - 4 Kents finished 16th, 18th, 19th and 21st, 22 cars running
2020 - 3 Kents finished 11th, 12th and 14th, 14 cars running
2019 - 4 Kents finished 3rd, 9th and 13th, 14 cars running
2018 - 3 Kents finished 14th, 17th, and 22nd, 22 cars running
2017 - 9 Kents finished 10th, 20th, 23rd. The other 6 were DNF, 26 of 36
cars were running at the finish

Why so few Kents? Two possible explanations:

1. There are few Kents relative to Hondas in the population, or
2. The population of Kents is sufficient to support more entries, but
few can qualify.

If there are few Kents in the population or the Kents are not good
enough to qualify does not matter. In any event, Kent participation and
results says the engine is not competitive at this level. But the outliers?

Why the outliers? As Alan has stated, if you spend enough money and
effort tuning the Kent it can run with the de-rated Hondas. But that
makes those owners that do spend lavishly unrepresentative of the
general Kent owner population. Which is why we see the typical Kent
finishs well off the podium.

I stand corrected on a statement I made about the SCCA F1600 race
series. Honda engines are allowed. Actually the Honda dominates.
Established in 2011, a Kent won the first year title. The 2012-2023
winners all drove Honda-powered cars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F1600_Championship_Series

If you look at the series' track records they are dominated by
Honda-powered cars.

https://www.racefrp.com/track-records

Now, explain all that please.