On 2024-10-12 04:36, Tom Elam wrote:
> On 10/11/2024 2:17 AM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-10-10 17:46, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-10-10 13:30, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>> On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> ...ON THE TRACK:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in
>>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/365/
>>>>>>>>>> FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The
>>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So why is the field mostly Hondas?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
>>>>>>>>>> profitable things.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And, gee, what do you know?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The "uncompetitive" Kent...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Who'd have thought it?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Really?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, 1st
>>>>>>>> in Provisional Results
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR
>>>>>>>> 6.11.1.D,
>>>>>>>> Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule
>>>>>>> infraction involved...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating. You
>>>>>> said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" the when
>>>>>> confronted with the truth changed it to "could have won", Liarboy.
>>>>>> So typical of you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have
>>>>> been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that he
>>>>> moved to aggressively to defend his position, and having seen the
>>>>> video, that's certainly true. But your claim has always been that
>>>>> the Ford can't be competitive with the Honda and there's no way
>>>>> that can be true if a Ford can be in the lead on the last lap of
>>>>> the race.
>>>>>
>>>>> And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
>>>>
>>>> You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
>>>> won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
>>>>
>>>> If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one race
>>>> I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race. That is
>>>> not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking another driver.
>>>> Had he not done so he might have not placed first in the provisional
>>>> standings. In other words, he cheated the other driver out of an
>>>> opportunity to pass and was appropriately penalized. Had he followed
>>>> the rules he very likely would not have even won a provisional first.
>>>>
>>>> Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have been
>>>> VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If they were
>>>> competitive on performance and cost there would be more. If the Kent
>>>> was a better engine overall on performance and cost the Kent would
>>>> dominate. Even you agree. After all you bought a Honda-powered car,
>>>> Liarboy.
>>>>
>>>> You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
>>>> profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not competitive
>>>> when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the money on the
>>>> Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a consistent basis?
>>>> YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so scarce in the Runoffs.
>>>>
>>>> In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are more
>>>> than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major traits
>>>> of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of the
>>>> narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit being wrong, or
>>>> that the other person who disagrees with you is right. Such people
>>>> are also totally blind to their disorder.
>>>
>>> Just for absolute clarity, Liarboy:
>>>
>>> I posted about the Runoffs win at 16:20PDT on October 4...
>>>
>>> ...and the official results weren't posted until 17:00 (Wisconsin
>>> time presumably)...
>>>
>>> ...on October 5.
>>>
>>> Just another example of your careful understanding of the situation,
>>> hmmm?
>>
>> <crickets.wav>
>
> Competition weeds out the weak - individuals, companies, entire species,
> and race car engines. HH has confused cause and effect. The cause of so
> few Kents at this level of competition is that all things considered
> they are not competitive. If the Kent is, all things considered, a more
> competitive engine than the Honda, there would be a lot more entered.
> The Runoffs FF engine market has for years been dominated by Honda.
> Prove me wrong.

I don't HAVE to "prove" you wrong, you mendacious asshole.

You are literally parroting back to me what I explained to you when you
tried to claim that using a Honda made the car faster...

....ON THE TRACK,

>
> Alan, you were in such a rush to brag about that outcome you did not
> even wait for the official results. Then after they were posted you
> never corrected your post. Liar either way. Yes, it was a case of
> cheating. That driver was not allowing faster cars to pass. Do you
> understand that the fact that he had to do that meant under the rules he
> illegally placed first? Or that other cars were faster?

I only just discovered the the fact a couple of days ago.

>
> I never claimed that a Kent can't win a race. I'm looking at FF engine
> choices. Can the Kent compete straight-up against the Honda? Interesting
> question, no?

What you claimed (and I have the receipts) is that a Honda was faster...

....ON THE TRACK.

>
> In fact, in 2011 SCCA established Formula 1600, limited to the Kent
> engine cars. These cars are eligible for FF races too. Do they show up
> at Runoffs? Yes. Likely only the best do that. Did any show up this
> year? Just one. So why do we now have a class limited to the Kent? Why
> not just one class?
>

And where did you pull this revelation from, Liarboy?

Because it is absolutely not true:

'FORMULA

The eight formula classes are all single-seat, open wheel racecars. They
are built to detailed specifications for weight, size and engine
displacement. There are incredible power to weight ratios in each class.
The classes in order of fastest to slowest are: Formula Atlantic® (FA),
Formula 1000 (FB), Formula SCCA® (FE), Formula Continental® (FC),
Formula Mazda (FM), Formula F (FF), Formula 500 (F500) and Formula Vee®
(FV).'

<https://www.scca.com/pages/car-classifications-and-groups>

There is no SCCA class called "Formula 1600". There IS a race series
called "F1600" which was created by the SCCA in 2011 as a professional
series for Formula F cars.

But the cars are run under precisely the same rules as the SCCA's
amateur series. Including the legality of the Honda.

My guess is that you saw the same, and simply assumed that since there
was "1600" in the name, it must obviously have meant the 1,600cc Kent
engine and not the 1,500cc Honda.

For a Ph.D., you really seem to lack the ability to do diligent
research, don't you?

> In fact, over in England the Brands Hatch Formula Ford Festival is
> restricted to Kent engines. https://www.brandshatch.co.uk/2024/october/
> formula-ford-festival
>
> Why is that? Why not allow Honda engines to compete too? What are they
> afraid of?

They simply went a different way, Liarboy.

In the US, there was a problem because the number of engine blocks for
building Kent engines was drying up. And because Ford wasn't interested
in doing anything to alleviate the situation, an engine builder
(Quicksilver in Maryland) came up with a solution to the problem. They
adapted the Honda Fit 1500cc engine to use in place of the Kent, because
(most importantly) it was physically small enough that it would fit in
the engine bays of most cars built for the Kent even after adding an
adapter plate between the engine and bellhousing (otherwise the bolt
holes on each wouldn't line up). Then the carefully programmed an ECU
and included a restrictor in what would otherwise have been a 50mm
throttle body, and after starting with too small a size, adjusted it
upward until they landed on a 30.5mm restrictor to equalize the Honda
with the Kent.

In the UK, they addressed the issue of the drying up of Kent engines
earlier, and created a version of Formula Ford using Ford's Zetec engine
in 1993, and then later switching to the Ford Duratec engine for 2006.

But there was no attempt made to equalize the performance of the two,
but also no need for them to build a version with a Honda engine.

So for the years 1993 to 2005, the overall Formula Ford Festival was
using a Zetec engine, and from 2006 to 2012 it was using the Duratec,
while they award a separate for the Kent-powered cars for some of those
years.

And in years 2009 to 2012, they awarded all three engines separately.

But you aren't even really aware that there are differences between the
classes called "Formula Ford" in different parts of the world, are you?