On 2024-11-15 12:39, Tom Elam wrote:
> On 10/25/2024 4:30 AM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-10-24 15:38, Tom Elam wrote:
>>> On 10/15/2024 12:23 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-10-15 08:09, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>> On 10/12/2024 11:46 AM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-10-12 04:36, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/11/2024 2:17 AM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 17:46, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 13:30, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...ON THE TRACK:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in Wisconsin:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2:22.733.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/365/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ago!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So why is the field mostly Hondas?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on more profitable things.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, gee, what do you know?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "uncompetitive" Kent...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who'd have thought it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Really?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> results, 1st in Provisional Results
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GCR 6.11.1.D,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rule infraction involved...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is
>>>>>>>>>>>> cheating. You said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in
>>>>>>>>>>>> Formula F" the when confronted with the truth changed it to
>>>>>>>>>>>> "could have won", Liarboy. So typical of you.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could
>>>>>>>>>>> have been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA
>>>>>>>>>>> ruled that he moved to aggressively to defend his position,
>>>>>>>>>>> and having seen the video, that's certainly true. But your
>>>>>>>>>>> claim has always been that the Ford can't be competitive with
>>>>>>>>>>> the Honda and there's no way that can be true if a Ford can
>>>>>>>>>>> be in the lead on the last lap of the race.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
>>>>>>>>>> won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one
>>>>>>>>>> race I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the
>>>>>>>>>> race. That is not true. He broke a rule by aggressively
>>>>>>>>>> blocking another driver. Had he not done so he might have not
>>>>>>>>>> placed first in the provisional standings. In other words, he
>>>>>>>>>> cheated the other driver out of an opportunity to pass and was
>>>>>>>>>> appropriately penalized. Had he followed the rules he very
>>>>>>>>>> likely would not have even won a provisional first.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There
>>>>>>>>>> have been VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many
>>>>>>>>>> years. If they were competitive on performance and cost there
>>>>>>>>>> would be more. If the Kent was a better engine overall on
>>>>>>>>>> performance and cost the Kent would dominate. Even you agree.
>>>>>>>>>> After all you bought a Honda- powered car, Liarboy.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money
>>>>>>>>>> spent
>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
>>>>>>>>>> profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not
>>>>>>>>>> competitive when considering the overall metrics. Why spend
>>>>>>>>>> the money on the Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda
>>>>>>>>>> on a consistent basis? YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is
>>>>>>>>>> so scarce in the Runoffs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are
>>>>>>>>>> more than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good.
>>>>>>>>>> Major traits of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another
>>>>>>>>>> trait of the narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never
>>>>>>>>>> admit being wrong, or that the other person who disagrees with
>>>>>>>>>> you is right. Such people are also totally blind to their
>>>>>>>>>> disorder.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just for absolute clarity, Liarboy:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I posted about the Runoffs win at 16:20PDT on October 4...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ...and the official results weren't posted until 17:00
>>>>>>>>> (Wisconsin time presumably)...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ...on October 5.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just another example of your careful understanding of the
>>>>>>>>> situation, hmmm?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <crickets.wav>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Competition weeds out the weak - individuals, companies, entire
>>>>>>> species, and race car engines. HH has confused cause and effect.
>>>>>>> The cause of so few Kents at this level of competition is that
>>>>>>> all things considered they are not competitive. If the Kent is,
>>>>>>> all things considered, a more competitive engine than the Honda,
>>>>>>> there would be a lot more entered. The Runoffs FF engine market
>>>>>>> has for years been dominated by Honda. Prove me wrong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't HAVE to "prove" you wrong, you mendacious asshole.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are literally parroting back to me what I explained to you
>>>>>> when you tried to claim that using a Honda made the car faster...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...ON THE TRACK,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alan, you were in such a rush to brag about that outcome you did
>>>>>>> not even wait for the official results. Then after they were
>>>>>>> posted you never corrected your post. Liar either way. Yes, it
>>>>>>> was a case of cheating. That driver was not allowing faster cars
>>>>>>> to pass. Do you understand that the fact that he had to do that
>>>>>>> meant under the rules he illegally placed first? Or that other
>>>>>>> cars were faster?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I only just discovered the the fact a couple of days ago.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I never claimed that a Kent can't win a race. I'm looking at FF
>>>>>>> engine choices. Can the Kent compete straight-up against the
>>>>>>> Honda? Interesting question, no?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What you claimed (and I have the receipts) is that a Honda was
>>>>>> faster...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...ON THE TRACK.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In fact, in 2011 SCCA established Formula 1600, limited to the
>>>>>>> Kent engine cars. These cars are eligible for FF races too. Do
>>>>>>> they show up at Runoffs? Yes. Likely only the best do that. Did
>>>>>>> any show up this year? Just one. So why do we now have a class
>>>>>>> limited to the Kent? Why not just one class?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And where did you pull this revelation from, Liarboy?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because it is absolutely not true:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 'FORMULA
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The eight formula classes are all single-seat, open wheel
>>>>>> racecars. They are built to detailed specifications for weight,
>>>>>> size and engine displacement. There are incredible power to weight
>>>>>> ratios in each class. The classes in order of fastest to slowest
>>>>>> are: Formula Atlantic® (FA), Formula 1000 (FB), Formula SCCA®
>>>>>> (FE), Formula Continental® (FC), Formula Mazda (FM), Formula F
>>>>>> (FF), Formula 500 (F500) and Formula Vee® (FV).'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.scca.com/pages/car-classifications-and-groups>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no SCCA class called "Formula 1600". There IS a race
>>>>>> series called "F1600" which was created by the SCCA in 2011 as a
>>>>>> professional series for Formula F cars.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But the cars are run under precisely the same rules as the SCCA's
>>>>>> amateur series. Including the legality of the Honda.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My guess is that you saw the same, and simply assumed that since
>>>>>> there was "1600" in the name, it must obviously have meant the
>>>>>> 1,600cc Kent engine and not the 1,500cc Honda.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For a Ph.D., you really seem to lack the ability to do diligent
>>>>>> research, don't you?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In fact, over in England the Brands Hatch Formula Ford Festival
>>>>>>> is restricted to Kent engines. https://
>>>>>>> www.brandshatch.co.uk/2024/ october/ formula-ford-festival
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why is that? Why not allow Honda engines to compete too? What are
>>>>>>> they afraid of?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They simply went a different way, Liarboy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the US, there was a problem because the number of engine blocks
>>>>>> for building Kent engines was drying up. And because Ford wasn't
>>>>>> interested in doing anything to alleviate the situation, an engine
>>>>>> builder (Quicksilver in Maryland) came up with a solution to the
>>>>>> problem. They adapted the Honda Fit 1500cc engine to use in place
>>>>>> of the Kent, because (most importantly) it was physically small
>>>>>> enough that it would fit in the engine bays of most cars built for
>>>>>> the Kent even after adding an adapter plate between the engine and
>>>>>> bellhousing (otherwise the bolt holes on each wouldn't line up).
>>>>>> Then the carefully programmed an ECU and included a restrictor in
>>>>>> what would otherwise have been a 50mm throttle body, and after
>>>>>> starting with too small a size, adjusted it upward until they
>>>>>> landed on a 30.5mm restrictor to equalize the Honda with the Kent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the UK, they addressed the issue of the drying up of Kent
>>>>>> engines earlier, and created a version of Formula Ford using
>>>>>> Ford's Zetec engine in 1993, and then later switching to the Ford
>>>>>> Duratec engine for 2006.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But there was no attempt made to equalize the performance of the
>>>>>> two, but also no need for them to build a version with a Honda
>>>>>> engine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So for the years 1993 to 2005, the overall Formula Ford Festival
>>>>>> was using a Zetec engine, and from 2006 to 2012 it was using the
>>>>>> Duratec, while they award a separate for the Kent-powered cars for
>>>>>> some of those years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And in years 2009 to 2012, they awarded all three engines separately.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But you aren't even really aware that there are differences
>>>>>> between the classes called "Formula Ford" in different parts of
>>>>>> the world, are you?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I am aware. I stand corrected when I stated that F1600 does
>>>>> not allow the Honda engine. Do I ever! The Honda dominates F1600,
>>>>> having won every season championship since 2012.
>>>>
>>>> I notice that you don't acknowledge your bullshit about FF in the UK.
>>>
>>> What BS? The Brands Hatch FF event I refer to is Kent Ford engines only.
>>>
>>> Why not run against the Honda?
>>
>>
>> Because, you incredible ignoramus, the Honda was never added to the
>> class in England.
>
> Of course not, it would dominate just like it has in the U.S.!

And here you go pretending you haven't been an ignorant ass in the claim
you made.