On 10/25/2024 4:30 AM, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-10-24 15:38, Tom Elam wrote:
>> On 10/15/2024 12:23 PM, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-10-15 08:09, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>> On 10/12/2024 11:46 AM, Alan wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-10-12 04:36, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/11/2024 2:17 AM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 17:46, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 13:30, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...ON THE TRACK:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2:22.733.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/365/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So why is the field mostly Hondas?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more profitable things.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, gee, what do you know?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "uncompetitive" Kent...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who'd have thought it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Really?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official
>>>>>>>>>>>>> results, 1st in Provisional Results
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM -
>>>>>>>>>>>>> GCR 6.11.1.D,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the
>>>>>>>>>>>> rule infraction involved...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is
>>>>>>>>>>> cheating. You said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in
>>>>>>>>>>> Formula F" the when confronted with the truth changed it to
>>>>>>>>>>> "could have won", Liarboy. So typical of you.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could
>>>>>>>>>> have been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled
>>>>>>>>>> that he moved to aggressively to defend his position, and
>>>>>>>>>> having seen the video, that's certainly true. But your claim
>>>>>>>>>> has always been that the Ford can't be competitive with the
>>>>>>>>>> Honda and there's no way that can be true if a Ford can be in
>>>>>>>>>> the lead on the last lap of the race.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
>>>>>>>>> won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one
>>>>>>>>> race I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the
>>>>>>>>> race. That is not true. He broke a rule by aggressively
>>>>>>>>> blocking another driver. Had he not done so he might have not
>>>>>>>>> placed first in the provisional standings. In other words, he
>>>>>>>>> cheated the other driver out of an opportunity to pass and was
>>>>>>>>> appropriately penalized. Had he followed the rules he very
>>>>>>>>> likely would not have even won a provisional first.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have
>>>>>>>>> been VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If
>>>>>>>>> they were competitive on performance and cost there would be
>>>>>>>>> more. If the Kent was a better engine overall on performance
>>>>>>>>> and cost the Kent would dominate. Even you agree. After all you
>>>>>>>>> bought a Honda- powered car, Liarboy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money
>>>>>>>>> spent
>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
>>>>>>>>> profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not
>>>>>>>>> competitive when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the
>>>>>>>>> money on the Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a
>>>>>>>>> consistent basis? YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so
>>>>>>>>> scarce in the Runoffs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are
>>>>>>>>> more than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good.
>>>>>>>>> Major traits of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another
>>>>>>>>> trait of the narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit
>>>>>>>>> being wrong, or that the other person who disagrees with you is
>>>>>>>>> right. Such people are also totally blind to their disorder.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just for absolute clarity, Liarboy:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I posted about the Runoffs win at 16:20PDT on October 4...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ...and the official results weren't posted until 17:00
>>>>>>>> (Wisconsin time presumably)...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ...on October 5.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just another example of your careful understanding of the
>>>>>>>> situation, hmmm?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <crickets.wav>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Competition weeds out the weak - individuals, companies, entire
>>>>>> species, and race car engines. HH has confused cause and effect.
>>>>>> The cause of so few Kents at this level of competition is that all
>>>>>> things considered they are not competitive. If the Kent is, all
>>>>>> things considered, a more competitive engine than the Honda, there
>>>>>> would be a lot more entered. The Runoffs FF engine market has for
>>>>>> years been dominated by Honda. Prove me wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't HAVE to "prove" you wrong, you mendacious asshole.
>>>>>
>>>>> You are literally parroting back to me what I explained to you when
>>>>> you tried to claim that using a Honda made the car faster...
>>>>>
>>>>> ...ON THE TRACK,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alan, you were in such a rush to brag about that outcome you did
>>>>>> not even wait for the official results. Then after they were
>>>>>> posted you never corrected your post. Liar either way. Yes, it was
>>>>>> a case of cheating. That driver was not allowing faster cars to
>>>>>> pass. Do you understand that the fact that he had to do that meant
>>>>>> under the rules he illegally placed first? Or that other cars were
>>>>>> faster?
>>>>>
>>>>> I only just discovered the the fact a couple of days ago.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I never claimed that a Kent can't win a race. I'm looking at FF
>>>>>> engine choices. Can the Kent compete straight-up against the
>>>>>> Honda? Interesting question, no?
>>>>>
>>>>> What you claimed (and I have the receipts) is that a Honda was
>>>>> faster...
>>>>>
>>>>> ...ON THE TRACK.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In fact, in 2011 SCCA established Formula 1600, limited to the
>>>>>> Kent engine cars. These cars are eligible for FF races too. Do
>>>>>> they show up at Runoffs? Yes. Likely only the best do that. Did
>>>>>> any show up this year? Just one. So why do we now have a class
>>>>>> limited to the Kent? Why not just one class?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And where did you pull this revelation from, Liarboy?
>>>>>
>>>>> Because it is absolutely not true:
>>>>>
>>>>> 'FORMULA
>>>>>
>>>>> The eight formula classes are all single-seat, open wheel racecars.
>>>>> They are built to detailed specifications for weight, size and
>>>>> engine displacement. There are incredible power to weight ratios in
>>>>> each class. The classes in order of fastest to slowest are: Formula
>>>>> Atlantic® (FA), Formula 1000 (FB), Formula SCCA® (FE), Formula
>>>>> Continental® (FC), Formula Mazda (FM), Formula F (FF), Formula 500
>>>>> (F500) and Formula Vee® (FV).'
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.scca.com/pages/car-classifications-and-groups>
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no SCCA class called "Formula 1600". There IS a race
>>>>> series called "F1600" which was created by the SCCA in 2011 as a
>>>>> professional series for Formula F cars.
>>>>>
>>>>> But the cars are run under precisely the same rules as the SCCA's
>>>>> amateur series. Including the legality of the Honda.
>>>>>
>>>>> My guess is that you saw the same, and simply assumed that since
>>>>> there was "1600" in the name, it must obviously have meant the
>>>>> 1,600cc Kent engine and not the 1,500cc Honda.
>>>>>
>>>>> For a Ph.D., you really seem to lack the ability to do diligent
>>>>> research, don't you?
>>>>>
>>>>>> In fact, over in England the Brands Hatch Formula Ford Festival is
>>>>>> restricted to Kent engines. https://www.brandshatch.co.uk/2024/
>>>>>> october/ formula-ford-festival
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why is that? Why not allow Honda engines to compete too? What are
>>>>>> they afraid of?
>>>>>
>>>>> They simply went a different way, Liarboy.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the US, there was a problem because the number of engine blocks
>>>>> for building Kent engines was drying up. And because Ford wasn't
>>>>> interested in doing anything to alleviate the situation, an engine
>>>>> builder (Quicksilver in Maryland) came up with a solution to the
>>>>> problem. They adapted the Honda Fit 1500cc engine to use in place
>>>>> of the Kent, because (most importantly) it was physically small
>>>>> enough that it would fit in the engine bays of most cars built for
>>>>> the Kent even after adding an adapter plate between the engine and
>>>>> bellhousing (otherwise the bolt holes on each wouldn't line up).
>>>>> Then the carefully programmed an ECU and included a restrictor in
>>>>> what would otherwise have been a 50mm throttle body, and after
>>>>> starting with too small a size, adjusted it upward until they
>>>>> landed on a 30.5mm restrictor to equalize the Honda with the Kent.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the UK, they addressed the issue of the drying up of Kent
>>>>> engines earlier, and created a version of Formula Ford using Ford's
>>>>> Zetec engine in 1993, and then later switching to the Ford Duratec
>>>>> engine for 2006.
>>>>>
>>>>> But there was no attempt made to equalize the performance of the
>>>>> two, but also no need for them to build a version with a Honda engine.
>>>>>
>>>>> So for the years 1993 to 2005, the overall Formula Ford Festival
>>>>> was using a Zetec engine, and from 2006 to 2012 it was using the
>>>>> Duratec, while they award a separate for the Kent-powered cars for
>>>>> some of those years.
>>>>>
>>>>> And in years 2009 to 2012, they awarded all three engines separately.
>>>>>
>>>>> But you aren't even really aware that there are differences between
>>>>> the classes called "Formula Ford" in different parts of the world,
>>>>> are you?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I am aware. I stand corrected when I stated that F1600 does not
>>>> allow the Honda engine. Do I ever! The Honda dominates F1600, having
>>>> won every season championship since 2012.
>>>
>>> I notice that you don't acknowledge your bullshit about FF in the UK.
>>
>> What BS? The Brands Hatch FF event I refer to is Kent Ford engines only.
>>
>> Why not run against the Honda?
>
>
> Because, you incredible ignoramus, the Honda was never added to the
> class in England.

Of course not, it would dominate just like it has in the U.S.!