On 8/29/24 5:04 PM, -hh wrote:
> On 8/28/24 11:26 PM, pothead wrote:
>> On 2024-08-29, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> wrote:
>>>> John Smyth <smythlejon2@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>>> news:uubvcjlhbf35ci78pejilbqj75g5nskrp2@4ax.com:
>>>>
>>>>> 1. Unleash American Energy-- Drill Baby Drill.
>>>>
>>>> Trump Bans Oil Drilling Off
>>>> Florida, Georgia, South Carolina
>>>> Sept 9 2020
>>>> https://tinyurl.com/3tfn3tvj
>>>>
>>>> Trump extends drilling ban off
>>>> North Carolina, Virginia
>>>> Sept 25, 2020
>>>> https://tinyurl.com/239u3bf6
>>>>
>>>>> 2. Rein In Wasteful Federal Spending.
>>>>
>>>>     Federal spending went up every
>>>> year under Trump.
>>>>
>>>>> 3. Regulation Cuts.
>>>>
>>>>     Except all the regulations
>>>> Republicans want.
>>>>
>>>>> 4. Tax Cuts.
>>>>
>>>>      Deficit explodes.
>>>>
>>>>> 5. Rebalance Trade.
>>>>
>>>>      By shipping more jobs overseas,
>>>> Trump-style
>>>>
>>>>> 6. Stop illegal Immigration.
>>>>
>>>>     Why did't Trump do that the first time?
>>>>
>>>>> 7. End Destabilzing Wars.
>>>>
>>>>     By playing nice with all the
>>>> dictators who start them.
>>>>
>>>>     "Putin denied it, I trust him"
>>>
>>>
>>> Yup, Trump is just snake oil, with his claims of preventing WWIII.
>>> Kamala will steer the ship properly, no one denies it's a cataclysmal
>>> period we're in, but the Democrats aren't weak, it's why numerous
>>> Republicans are on our side in this, against DJT.  We are the only
>>> coalition with a non-dystopian vision.  "Make America Great Again"?!
>>> Says who, Donald?  What was so "great" about the $2 Bacon McDouble, or
>>> whatever, sir?  Your economy isn't magic except for those who directly
>>> benefit from it, which is admittedly a sector I care about a lot, the
>>> working, blue collar industries in the U.S., no one denies that it
>>> matters, but it isn't the center of everything in a global economic
>>> environment.
>>>
>>> And their use of deficits tells the real story, they're not
>>> "conservative", they're right-wing, there's a difference.  Right-wing
>>> can enable whatever crazy scheme is cooked up by a think tank, to get
>>> us into more debt.  Democrats have the record of countering that.
>>>
>>
>> 1. It's a cataclysmal period we are in due to Biden/Harris.
>> 2. Harris has had 4 years to work with Biden to fix it. She has done
>> nothing.
>> 3. Blue collar industries? the move to EV is not helping anyone at
>> that level. Just because the
>> leaders of a particular union support a candidate doesn't mean the
>> rank and file support the same
>> candidate. Hint: autoworkers despise Biden. Do the research.
>>
>> So where are all of these green energy jobs that Biden/Harris promised
>> would appear after he
>> cancelled say the Keystone pipeline?

Here's pothead's answer:

> "DOE Report Shows Clean Energy Jobs Grew at More Than Twice the Rate of
> Overall U.S. Employment"
>
> <https://www.energy.gov/articles/doe-report-shows-clean-energy-jobs-grew-more-twice-rate-overall-us-employment>
>
> FYI, before you try to pooh-pooh the raw number of job growth, do make
> sure to keep it in context to your choice of comparison: the Keystone
> pipeline.  Its jobs creation numbers were vastly lower:
>
> "In the report, the agency wrote that 10,400 estimated positions would
> be for seasonal construction work lasting four to eight-month periods.
> Since the State Department defines "job" as "one position that is filled
> for 1 year," that would equate to approximately 3,900 jobs over a
> two-year period."
>
> <https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2021/01/22/keystone-pipeline-jobs-lost-joe-biden-executive-order-cancel-fact-check/6673822002/>
>
> FWIW, I think I read someplace years ago that the number of permanent
> full time jobs from Keystone was something like fourteen (14).
>
> Likewise, from 2019, there's twice as many 'green' jobs vs fossil fuels:
>
> "...U.S. Energy & Employment Report lists 2.39 million jobs in clean
> energy generation and energy efficiency versus 1.23 million – half as
> many – in fossil energy production."
>
> <https://citizensclimatelobby.org/blog/policy/how-clean-energy-creates-more-jobs/>

One down.

>> According the Biden and Hillary as well, we should have
>> programmers making 6 figure salaries all over the place.
>
> Got cite for who made this claim when?
>
> In any event, it doesn't sound too far off to me, as per US News's
> reported median value of $97,800 back in 2022:
>
> <https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/computer-programmer/salary>

Two down.

>
>> Hint: China mining raw materials ie: lithium etc for batteries.
>>
>> You libbys are so darn ignorant.
>> You hate Trump so much you go delusional.
>>
>> Take your TDS infected tinfoil hat off for a second and think about
>> this. Are you HONESTLY, and
>> this means YOU, better under Biden than you were under Trump.
>>
>> And if so, SPECIFICALLY how?
>>
>
> I'm better off in the post-Trump era.
>
> So just how specific do you want my specifics to be?  I can say "lower
> stress", but do I need to post my blood pressure scores to prove that?
> Likewise, for fewer financial worries, our monthly budget?  Or for an
> improved net worth, is a percentage increase good enough, or do you want
> exact balances with receipts and bank account numbers?
>
>> The reason I ask is that I have not encountered a single person who
>> can say YES and then tell me
>> SPECIFICALLY how.
>>
>> Maybe you can.
>
> Done above, contingent on how unreasonable you try to set goalposts.
> Naturally, you're insinuating that you're now worse off, so you'll need
> to lead by example, with the level of specifics you're calling for
> others to do, to avoid being a blatant hypocrite.

Three down.

In the meantime, I happened to read this yesterday from another source;
copying it in its entirety to provide full context, as it is masterful
in breaking down in detail how propaganda works. If you appreciate the
piece, you can make a donation to its author at:

<https://ko-fi.com/terravance?fbclid=IwY2xjawE_1lpleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHUld6oCODhsLC30GtloH8yzzR91qEywxgz4aMIiMCgmAEvVpegqijjeFZw_aem_LTTJtmczb9DU8oQPsRyjzA>

[quote]

I don’t generally tell people what to do or how to think. I actually
believe the best medicine for most of our social ills is that people
become less vulnerable to the impacts of propaganda.

That’s what I try to do— help people recognize propaganda. Freedom
begins with free thought.

So, I’m going to show you first what JD Vance said following the
Arlington incident, then I am going to quote an excerpt from JD Vance’s
book.

I am genuinely curious to hear from supporters of Trump and/or Vance
what you think is his motive.

This thread has potential for chaos, so a hard boundary:
I’m only asking about what Vance’s motive is. If you respond by
insulting me, liberals, conservatives, or any group, I’ll either hide
your comment or block you.

Okay… on to the point.

Recently, JD Vance made a post saying Kamala Harris can “Go to hell.”
This is in response to a question he was asked about the incident that
happened with Trump and his staff’s behavior at Arlington National
Cemetery.

More on that in a moment.

I’m going to do what I do and analyze and identify propaganda in the
hopes that it will help others see the process of how Americans are
being “socially primed” via the information they receive.

This one needs to be read to the end because that’s where the important
parts are.

Because depending on your algorithms and what channel you’re watching to
get your news, you’re getting a totally different story from other
Americans.

I confirmed this by absorbing news and reports from at least 50 sources
and then asking everyday people on “both sides” (sides aren’t real) what
was going on with Arlington.

The quote, in context, was JD Vance responding to a question about Trump
and his staff at Arlington National Cemetery:

“You guys in the media, you're acting like Donald Trump filmed a TV
commercial at a grave site. He was there providing emotional support to
a lot of brave Americans who lost loved ones they never should have
lost, and there happened to be a camera there, and somebody gave him
permission to have that camera there. This is not a gross violation of
federal law. This is a president who did what all presidents should do,
show up and provide support to your own people.[…]

“I cannot get over the press’s obsession over this. Because what is the
bigger scandal? That Donald Trump was invited to stand by a graveside
and actually accepted the invitation, or that Kamala Harris let 13 brave
Americans die because she’s a failure of a leader?

“Three years ago, 13 brave, innocent Americans died, and they died
because Kamala Harris refused to do her job and there hasn’t been a
single investigation or a single firing.

“Look, sometimes mistakes happen. That’s just the nature of government,
the nature of military service, but to have those 13 Americans lose
their lives and not fire a single person is disgraceful.
“Kamala Harris is disgraceful.
“If we want to talk about a story out of those 13 brave, innocent
Americans who lost their lives, it’s that Kamala Harris is so asleep at
the wheel that she won’t even do an investigation into what happened,
and she wants to yell at Donald Trump because he showed up?! She can…
she can go to hell.” -JD Vance, yesterday

Now, this is a directly sourced quote.

Me reporting that is in no way propaganda unless I only quote a part of
it without adequate context to honestly represent a point he was making.
I am providing the context by providing more than just the
pearl-clutch-inspiring “go to hell” line.

But, JD Vance’s quote contains propaganda. I’m going to break it down
for you.

1. DARVO (an acronym for an abusive form of communication to avoid
accountability. It stands for Deny/Deflect, Attack, Reverse Victim and
Offender)

Kamala Harris had not made any statements, remarks, or comments on the
incident. She was not mentioned in the question which was only about
Trump and his campaign staff.
Vance making this about Harris is a very obvious example of DARVO.

Deny/deflect:

Vance deflected any responsibility and instead deflected blame to Harris.

Attack:

He accused her of being directly responsible for the deaths of innocent
Americans. He called her disgraceful. He said she can go to hell.

Reverse Victim and Offender:

He implies the media only care to hurt Trump when Trump did something
noble, making Trump the victim and implying the media are neglecting to
report on the important issues.

Now, even though this issue had nothing to do with Kamala Harris, let’s
look at other propaganda devices in Vance’s comments:

2. False Equivalence

What Vance Did: Vance set up a false equivalence between the actions of
Donald Trump at Arlington National Cemetery and the deaths of 13 service
members in Afghanistan. He implies that the media should be more
concerned about Harris's alleged failure than Trump's actions, even
though the two situations are not directly comparable.

Why It's Propaganda: This technique is designed to divert attention from
Trump's wrongdoing by presenting it as less significant compared to
another, unrelated issue. By doing so, Vance downplays the seriousness
of Trump’s actions at Arlington while trying to paint Harris as a vile,
disgraceful, horrible person.

3. Appeal to Emotion:

What Vance Did: By repeatedly referring to the "13 brave, innocent
Americans" who died, Vance is evoking an emotional response from the
audience. He uses emotionally charged language like "brave," "innocent,"
and "disgraceful" to manipulate the audience's feelings toward Harris
and away from Trump.

Why It's Propaganda: Emotional appeals are a common propaganda technique
used to bypass logical reasoning and provoke a strong emotional reaction.

By focusing on the tragic deaths and directly scapegoating Harris, Vance
aims to elicit anger and resentment toward her, rather than fostering a
reasoned discussion about the the topic.

4. Loaded Language:

What Vance Did: The use of terms like "disgraceful" and “failure” and
"go to hell" is loaded language meant to associate Harris with the most
negative perceptions and then finishing with an attitude that she
deserves the worst fate fathomable.

At the same time, he uses loaded language to bias people for Trump

Why It's Propaganda: Loaded language is a technique that is used to bias
the audience for or against a person or idea by appealing to their
emotions rather than presenting an objective analysis. It’s a form of
verbal manipulation intended to influence opinions without providing facts.

5. Guilt by Association:

What Vance Did: By linking Kamala Harris to the deaths of the 13 service
members, Vance implies that she is directly responsible for these tragedies.

Why It's Propaganda: This tactic unfairly associates Harris with a
negative outcome, regardless of her actual involvement or
responsibility. It’s designed to tarnish her reputation by making her
seem culpable for something she did not directly cause, thereby turning
public opinion against her.

6. Red Herring:

What Vance Did: Vance’s focus on Harris diverts attention away from
the original issue concerning Trump’s actions at Arlington National
Cemetery. Instead of addressing the question, he introduces an unrelated
topic to distract the audience.

Why It's Propaganda: A red herring is a common propaganda device used
to lead the audience away from the issue at hand and towards something
else. By shifting the conversation to Harris, Vance avoids having to
defend or explain Trump’s potentially illegal activities, thereby
manipulating the narrative.

7. Straw Man Argument:

What Vance Did: Vance constructs a straw man argument by suggesting that
the media is obsessed with Trump’s actions at Arlington while ignoring
the deaths of 13 service members, as if these are the only two issues
that matter.

Why It's Propaganda: The straw man device involves misrepresenting an
opponent’s position to make it easier to attack. In this case, Vance
oversimplifies and misrepresents the media’s concerns, setting up a
false narrative that he can then easily dismantle because the truth is
less defensible.

Now, let’s fact check Vance:

1. "You guys in the media, you're acting like Donald Trump filmed a TV
commercial at a grave site."

Fact Check: Well, if it looks like a peacock, squawks like a peacock,
and violates federal law like a peacock...

The reality is, Trump’s team was filming at Arlington National Cemetery,
a place where such activities are explicitly restricted. They were told
this in advance. Trump intentionally violated federal law, and his staff
abused and physically shoved a woman out of the way.

This isn’t some simple misunderstanding. They were clear on the law and
bullied staff at a cemetery for photo ops.

Federal law prevents partisan political events at Arlington National
Cemetery for obvious reasons. It is disrespectful to tokenize the dead.
But… Trump also did film a campaign commercial and posted it from his
official TikTok account. In the commercial is the area that is
specifically not allowed to be filmed.

2. “He was there providing emotional support to a lot of brave Americans
who lost loved ones they never should have lost, and there happened to
be a camera there, and somebody gave him permission to have that camera
there."

Fact Check: Providing emotional support? By throwing aggrieved families
into a national scandal for a commercial?

And that mysterious "somebody" who gave permission? It was one family.
Vance is putting the onus of accountability for Trump’s criminal
behavior on an aggrieved family with no authority to authorize him to
break the law.

Other families did not consent.

“This is not a gross violation of federal law. This is a president who
did what all presidents should do, show up and provide support to your
own people."

Fact Check: Actually, it is a violation of federal law. Arlington
National Cemetery has strict rules against political activities,
filming, and other such conduct.

Showing up and providing support was not illegal.
Assault is illegal. Trump knows all about that now.

"I cannot get over the press’s obsession over this."

Fact Check: The press isn’t "obsessed" with this because they’re
nitpicking. They’re asking more than once because Vance evades answering
the questions they ask.

It is the duty of the free press to focus on things like belligerent
violations of and disregard for federal law and bullying and abuse of
federal employees when a person is trying to be the President.
Trump has surely given reason to focus on those things. It’s their job
to hold leaders accountable, especially when those leaders think they’re
above the law.

"Because what is the bigger scandal? That Donald Trump was invited to
stand by a graveside and actually accepted the invitation, or that
Kamala Harris let 13 brave Americans die because she’s a failure of a
leader?"

Fact Check: Comparing Trump’s self-serving violation of cemetery rules
to the tragic deaths of service members in a complex, chaotic military
withdrawal is a dramatic attempt at misdirection. Very dramatic.

Harris did not "let" anyone die. The decisions that led to the deaths in
Afghanistan were the result of years of policy across multiple
administrations, not the failure of one person. Vice Presidents do not
make any military decisions.

That’s not just moving the goalposts— that’s calling goalposts monsters.
"Three years ago, 13 brave, innocent Americans died, and they died
because Kamala Harris refused to do her job and there hasn’t been a
single investigation or a single firing."

Fact Check: First, Harris wasn’t the President, and it was not her job
to do.

Second, multiple investigations into the events in Afghanistan were
conducted, and decisions were made across various levels of government
and military officials.

Claiming Harris is solely responsible is not just inaccurate—it’s
intentionally dishonest.

Vance engaged in extreme acrobatics to make Kamala Harris seem weak,
incompetent, sinister, and corrupt and Trump like a hero— when the
question was about the federal laws Trump broke.

"Look, sometimes mistakes happen. That’s just the nature of government,
the nature of military service, but to have those 13 Americans lose
their lives and not fire a single person is disgraceful."

Fact Check: Mistakes do happen, and they’re often the result of systemic
issues rather than individual failures. But Harris had as much power
over what happened in Afghanistan as I did— which was none.

It was actually Donald Trump who initiated the withdrawal of troops from
Afghanistan by making an agreement, the Doha Agreement, with the
Taliban. The agreement was to have all US troops out of Afghanistan by
May of 2021.

The Taliban weren’t complying with their agreement, but Trump continued
to withdraw troops.

Biden inherited this agreement. It was complicated and not a failure of
diligence. I added further reading in the comments if you’re interested.
But Harris had zero to do with it.

"Kamala Harris is disgraceful."

Fact Check: This is just intentional dishonesty and deflection. It is
objectively abusive.

It’s abusive to Americans to intentionally withhold knowledge, to lie,
to avoid accountability, to deceive people, and to fraudulently poison
people’s perceptions who are trusting you to be honest with them.

“If we want to talk about a story out of those 13 brave, innocent
Americans who lost their lives, it’s that Kamala Harris is so asleep at
the wheel that she won’t even do an investigation into what happened,
and she wants to yell at Donald Trump because he showed up?! She can…
she can go to hell."

Fact Check: Harris hasn’t been asleep at the wheel; she’s not even on
the bus. It’s not in the purview of her duties to make military decisions.

There have been constant briefings and intelligence investigations
because it’s the military— and that’s what the military does.

The "go to hell" comment is just gratuitous vitriol that serves no
purpose other than to prime people to continue the division after
Trump’s likely loss— at least that’s my take.

Is this an attempt to maintain the outrage and anger of Trump’s
supporters, and are conservative media outlets aiding and abetting his
efforts by not reporting any counter evidence to obvious misinformation?
They have successfully manipulated enough people to feeling extreme
distrust, outrage, and disgust for the “woke comrades” who will “ruin
America” to cause widespread fear of violence and an attempt to subvert
a fair election.

Trump “retruthed” a stream of neoreactionary conspiracy theorist posts
on his platform, Truth Social, that implied Obama was behind all the
shenanigans that aren’t real and implied Kamala Harris got where she is
by performing favors in the form of “blow jobs.”

That’s relevant because in Vance’s book, Hillbilly Elegy, he wrote about
the failures of middle and working class white people to be honest with
themselves, choosing to blame the media, Obama, DEI initiatives, and
liberals for their failures.

He listed “lunatic conspiracy theories” his family believed about Obama
and said they cannot participate meaningfully in society and believe the
crazy things they believe.

He said conservatives provoke and incite that kind of harmful thinking
instead of encouraging engagement.

Here’s an excerpt from his book, so you know I’m not using loaded language:

“Barack Obama strikes at the heart of our deepest insecurities. He is a
good father while many of us aren’t. He wears suits to his job while we
wear overalls, if we’re lucky enough to have a job at all. His wife
tells us that we shouldn’t be feeding our children certain foods, and we
hate her for it—not because we think she’s wrong but because we know
she’s right.

“Many try to blame the anger and cynicism of working-class whites on
misinformation. Admittedly, there is an industry of conspiracy-mongers
and fringe lunatics writing about all manner of idiocy, from Obama’s
alleged religious leanings to his ancestry. But every major news
organization, even the oft-maligned Fox News, has always told the truth
about Obama’s citizenship status and religious views.”

“The people I know are well aware of what the major news organizations
have to say about the issue; they simply don’t believe them. Only 6
percent of American voters believe that the media is “very trustworthy.” […]
“With little trust in the press, there’s no check on the Internet
conspiracy theories that rule the digital world. Barack Obama is a
foreign alien actively trying to destroy our country. Everything the
media tells us is a lie. Many in the white working class believe the
worst about their society.
[…]
“But if a third of our community questions the president’s
origin—despite all evidence to the contrary—it’s a good bet that the
other conspiracies have broader currency than we’d like. This isn’t some
libertarian mistrust of government policy, which is healthy in any
democracy. This is deep skepticism of the very institutions of our
society. And it’s becoming more and more mainstream.

“We can’t trust the evening news. We can’t trust our politicians. Our
universities, the gateway to a better life, are rigged against us. We
can’t get jobs. You can’t believe these things and participate
meaningfully in society.
[…]

“There is a cultural movement in the white working class to blame
problems on society or the government, and that movement gains adherents
by the day.”

“Here is where the rhetoric of modern conservatives (and I say this as
one of them) fails to meet the real challenges of their biggest
constituents. Instead of encouraging engagement, conservatives
increasingly foment the kind of detachment that has sapped the ambition
of so many of my peers.

“What separates the successful from the unsuccessful are the
expectations that they had for their own lives. Yet the message of the
right is increasingly: It’s not your fault that you’re a loser; it’s the
government’s fault.”

And then:

“When [my father] found out that I had decided to go to Yale Law, he
asked whether, on my applications, I had ‘pretended to be black or liberal.’

“This is how low the cultural expectations of working-class white
Americans have fallen. We should hardly be surprised that as attitudes
like this one spread, the number of people willing to work for a better
life diminishes.”

[paragraph breaks added by me for accessibility]

So why is he doing exactly what he identified as exploitative? Why did
he say that white people who believe people who do what he himself is
doing are so delusional they’re not able to meaningfully participate in
society?

Millions of copies of that book are in the wild. Does he think no one
will read it?

My question is: why is he doing this? What’s his motive? What’s the end
game?

You don’t have to be a Trump supporter to answer, but I’m asking
everyone to only comment on Vance’s motive and not your analysis of
Trump’s supporters or detractors...

[/quote]

Yes, that's a long piece, but it has a huge amount of content and
detailed insight. Unfortunately, the people who most need to read it to
understand how they're being manipulated will probably not do so. Their
failure to become better informed is on them, and not anyone else.

-hh