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comp / comp.unix.programmer / Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)

SubjectAuthor
* Re: I did not inhaleStefan Ram
`* Re: I did not inhaleKalevi Kolttonen
 `* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Lawrence D'Oliveiro
  +* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Kaz Kylheku
  |`* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Kalevi Kolttonen
  | +* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)John Ames
  | |`- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)D
  | +* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Muttley
  | |+* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Dmitry A. Kazakov
  | ||+* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Lawrence D'Oliveiro
  | |||`* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Dmitry A. Kazakov
  | ||| +* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Muttley
  | ||| |`* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Dmitry A. Kazakov
  | ||| | `* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Muttley
  | ||| |  +* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Dmitry A. Kazakov
  | ||| |  |+* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Kaz Kylheku
  | ||| |  ||`- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Dmitry A. Kazakov
  | ||| |  |+- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Lawrence D'Oliveiro
  | ||| |  |+- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Muttley
  | ||| |  |`* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Sebastian
  | ||| |  | `* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Dmitry A. Kazakov
  | ||| |  |  +* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)vallor
  | ||| |  |  |`- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Lawrence D'Oliveiro
  | ||| |  |  +- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)James Kuyper
  | ||| |  |  `- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Lawrence D'Oliveiro
  | ||| |  `- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Richard Kettlewell
  | ||| +* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Kenny McCormack
  | ||| |`- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Muttley
  | ||| +* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Kaz Kylheku
  | ||| |`* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Dmitry A. Kazakov
  | ||| | `* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Kaz Kylheku
  | ||| |  `* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Dmitry A. Kazakov
  | ||| |   `- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Kaz Kylheku
  | ||| `* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Lawrence D'Oliveiro
  | |||  `* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Dmitry A. Kazakov
  | |||   +* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)David Brown
  | |||   |`* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Dmitry A. Kazakov
  | |||   | +* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Muttley
  | |||   | |`* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Dmitry A. Kazakov
  | |||   | | +- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Muttley
  | |||   | | `- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Bozo User
  | |||   | +* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)David Brown
  | |||   | |`* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Dmitry A. Kazakov
  | |||   | | +* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Lawrence D'Oliveiro
  | |||   | | |`* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Dmitry A. Kazakov
  | |||   | | | `- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Lawrence D'Oliveiro
  | |||   | | +* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)David Brown
  | |||   | | |`* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Dmitry A. Kazakov
  | |||   | | | +* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)David Brown
  | |||   | | | |`- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Dmitry A. Kazakov
  | |||   | | | `* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Lawrence D'Oliveiro
  | |||   | | |  `* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Dmitry A. Kazakov
  | |||   | | |   `- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Lawrence D'Oliveiro
  | |||   | | `* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)James Kuyper
  | |||   | |  `- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Lawrence D'Oliveiro
  | |||   | `* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Keith Thompson
  | |||   |  `* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)John Ames
  | |||   |   +- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Muttley
  | |||   |   `- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Stefan Ram
  | |||   +* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Lawrence D'Oliveiro
  | |||   |`* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Dmitry A. Kazakov
  | |||   | +* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Keith Thompson
  | |||   | |`- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Dmitry A. Kazakov
  | |||   | `* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Lawrence D'Oliveiro
  | |||   |  `* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Dmitry A. Kazakov
  | |||   |   +- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Lawrence D'Oliveiro
  | |||   |   `- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)D
  | |||   `* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)vallor
  | |||    `- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Lawrence D'Oliveiro
  | ||+- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Muttley
  | ||`- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Eric Pozharski
  | |`* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)David Brown
  | | `- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Muttley
  | `* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)David Brown
  |  +* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Keith Thompson
  |  |+- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)David Brown
  |  |`* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)James Kuyper
  |  | `- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Keith Thompson
  |  `* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Kalevi Kolttonen
  |   +* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Muttley
  |   |+- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Lew Pitcher
  |   |`- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Kalevi Kolttonen
  |   +* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)David Brown
  |   |`* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Kalevi Kolttonen
  |   | +* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)David Brown
  |   | |+* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Muttley
  |   | ||`* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)David Brown
  |   | || `* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Muttley
  |   | ||  `* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)David Brown
  |   | ||   `* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Muttley
  |   | ||    `* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)David Brown
  |   | ||     `* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Muttley
  |   | ||      +* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)D
  |   | ||      |+* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Muttley
  |   | ||      ||`* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)D
  |   | ||      || `* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Lew Pitcher
  |   | ||      ||  `- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Muttley
  |   | ||      |`- Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)David Brown
  |   | ||      `* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)David Brown
  |   | ||       +* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Muttley
  |   | ||       |`* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)John Ames
  |   | ||       `* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Lawrence D'Oliveiro
  |   | |`* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Lawrence D'Oliveiro
  |   | `* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Muttley
  |   `* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Lawrence D'Oliveiro
  `* Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)Kalevi Kolttonen

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Subject: Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)
From: candycanearter07
Newsgroups: comp.unix.shell, comp.unix.programmer, comp.lang.misc
Organization: the-candyden-of-code
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2024 18:00 UTC
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Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid (candycanearter07)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.programmer,comp.lang.misc
Subject: Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2024 18:00:09 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: the-candyden-of-code
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 22:48 this Saturday (GMT):
> On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 18:30:03 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:
>
>> Subjectively, I prefer early returns over nested ifs:
>
> Nested ifs nest, early returns don’t.

Right, they remove some nesting which makes it easier to read.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

Subject: Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)
From: Lawrence D'Oliv
Newsgroups: comp.unix.shell, comp.unix.programmer, comp.lang.misc
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2024 20:36 UTC
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Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ldo@nz.invalid (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.programmer,comp.lang.misc
Subject: Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2024 20:36:11 -0000 (UTC)
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On Thu, 26 Sep 2024 18:00:09 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 22:48 this Saturday (GMT):
>
>> On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 18:30:03 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:
>>
>>> Subjectively, I prefer early returns over nested ifs:
>>
>> Nested ifs nest, early returns don’t.
>
> Right, they remove some nesting which makes it easier to read.

Nestability helps with refactorability.

Subject: Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)
From: Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: comp.unix.shell, comp.unix.programmer, comp.lang.misc
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:03 UTC
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From: Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.programmer,comp.lang.misc
Subject: Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:03:43 -0000 (UTC)
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On Thu, 26 Sep 2024 20:36:11 -0000 (UTC)
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> boringly babbled:
>On Thu, 26 Sep 2024 18:00:09 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 22:48 this Saturday (GMT):
>>
>>> On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 18:30:03 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:
>>>
>>>> Subjectively, I prefer early returns over nested ifs:
>>>
>>> Nested ifs nest, early returns don’t.
>>
>> Right, they remove some nesting which makes it easier to read.
>
>Nestability helps with refactorability.

Hell it does. All it helps with is making the code harder to follow.

Subject: Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)
From: Bozo User
Newsgroups: comp.unix.shell, comp.unix.programmer, comp.lang.misc
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2024 20:04 UTC
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Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: anthk@disroot.org (Bozo User)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.programmer,comp.lang.misc
Subject: Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2024 20:04:52 -0000 (UTC)
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On 2024-09-15, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Sep 2024 22:25:53 -0000 (UTC)
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> boringly babbled:
>>On Sat, 14 Sep 2024 19:10:06 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>
>>> $ man vim | grep -i binary
>>>
>>> -b Binary mode. A few options will be set that makes it
>>> possible to edit a binary or executable file.
>>
>>Wow, a special mode just to edit binary files, when Emacs can do it in
>>its regular mode.
>
> The 1980s phoned, they want their editor wars back.
>
>>It just sets a bunch of options to minimize the chance of screwing up
>>the file in ways you don’t want. Apart from that, it’s still editing
>>it as a text file.
>
> Any sane person uses a dedicated hex editor to edit binary files, not vim
> or emacs.
>

Emacs has the hexl-mode. Emacs isn't just an editor, it's an Elisp platform.

Subject: Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)
From: Bozo User
Newsgroups: comp.unix.shell, comp.unix.programmer, comp.lang.misc
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2024 20:04 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: anthk@disroot.org (Bozo User)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.programmer,comp.lang.misc
Subject: Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2024 20:04:53 -0000 (UTC)
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On 2024-08-19, Dmitry A. Kazakov <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> wrote:
> On 2024-08-19 16:59, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Mon, 19 Aug 2024 12:39:33 +0200
>
>>> Initially an ability to trim the system and sometimes to patch a driver
>>> was a huge advantage Linux had over Windows NT.
>>
>> Linux can also load and unload drivers on the fly unlike Windows which AFAIK
>> still requires a reboot each time.
>
> I was talking about monolithic kernel Linux had in 90's. Plug and play,
> kernel modules came much later with much bigger machines. I ran Linux on
> i386 25MHz 4Mb. Try it now.
>

You could load and unload drivers since slackware 4 and before,
even under a 386.

Subject: Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)
From: Bozo User
Newsgroups: comp.unix.shell, comp.unix.programmer, comp.lang.misc
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2024 20:04 UTC
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From: anthk@disroot.org (Bozo User)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.programmer,comp.lang.misc
Subject: Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)
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On 2024-08-21, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 09:26:41 +0200, David Brown wrote:
>
>> And you don't need to know anything about Linux, UNIX or POSIX to
>> program in C.
>
> I think the point has been made on comp.lang.c more than once, that C
> without POSIX can be a very dull language indeed ...

The C Programming Language 2nd. Ed is not about POSIX, and you can do
a lot with C99. Albeit I prefer Elisp and Common Lisp.

Subject: Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)
From: Lawrence D'Oliv
Newsgroups: comp.unix.shell, comp.unix.programmer, comp.lang.misc
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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From: ldo@nz.invalid (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.programmer,comp.lang.misc
Subject: Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)
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On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 20:04:52 -0000 (UTC), Bozo User wrote:

>> Any sane person uses a dedicated hex editor to edit binary files, not
>> vim or emacs.
>>
> Emacs has the hexl-mode. Emacs isn't just an editor, it's an Elisp
> platform.

Hex mode is an option. It’s not required. It so happens the kind of
editing I was doing worked best the way I did it.

Emacs offers you the choice, alternative editors don’t.

Subject: Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)
From: Lawrence D'Oliv
Newsgroups: comp.unix.shell, comp.unix.programmer, comp.lang.misc
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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From: ldo@nz.invalid (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.programmer,comp.lang.misc
Subject: Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)
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On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 20:04:54 -0000 (UTC), Bozo User wrote:

> On 2024-08-21, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 09:26:41 +0200, David Brown wrote:
>>
>>> And you don't need to know anything about Linux, UNIX or POSIX to
>>> program in C.
>>
>> I think the point has been made on comp.lang.c more than once, that C
>> without POSIX can be a very dull language indeed ...
>
> ... you can do a lot with C99.

Up to a point. This is the thing: every once in a while, a discussion
about some supposed C feature will founder on the discovery that it is
actually a POSIX feature, not available with standard C on non-POSIX
platforms.

Hang around comp.lang.c for a month or so, and you’ll see what I mean.

> Albeit I prefer Elisp and Common Lisp.

I use lots of languages, including C and JavaScript. I use Elisp to
customize Emacs, and Python for lots of other things. I have even dabbled
with Smalltalk.

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