https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/ftc-sues-adobe-allegedly-hiding-fees-making-tough-cancel-subscriptions

FTC sues Adobe for allegedly hiding fees, making it tough to cancel
subscriptions. Federal regulator claims Photoshop maker does not adequately
disclose early termination fees that can cost customers hundreds of
dollars.

The Federal Trade Commission sued Adobe and two of its executives Thursday,
claiming the Photoshop maker hides early termination fees on its most
popular subscription and makes it difficult for customers to cancel.

The federal regulator said in its complaint that Adobe does not adequately
disclose the fees, which are calculated as 50% of the remaining payments
when customers cancel in their first year. According to the FTC, those fees
can reach hundreds of dollars.

Mickey D wrote:
> https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/ftc-sues-adobe-allegedly-hiding-fees-making-tough-cancel-subscriptions
>
> FTC sues Adobe for allegedly hiding fees, making it tough to cancel
> subscriptions. Federal regulator claims Photoshop maker does not adequately
> disclose early termination fees that can cost customers hundreds of
> dollars.
>
> The Federal Trade Commission sued Adobe and two of its executives Thursday,
> claiming the Photoshop maker hides early termination fees on its most
> popular subscription and makes it difficult for customers to cancel.
>
> The federal regulator said in its complaint that Adobe does not adequately
> disclose the fees, which are calculated as 50% of the remaining payments
> when customers cancel in their first year. According to the FTC, those fees
> can reach hundreds of dollars.

With the exception of Photoshop Elements 2.0 (which I still am able to
use in Windows 10), I've avoided anything Adobe as much as possible.
There's too much freeware out there that can do the same thing and
usually better and without all the bloat.

--
John C.

On 6/17/2024 9:06 PM, Mickey D wrote:
> https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/ftc-sues-adobe-allegedly-hiding-fees-making-tough-cancel-subscriptions
>
> FTC sues Adobe for allegedly hiding fees, making it tough to cancel
> subscriptions. Federal regulator claims Photoshop maker does not adequately
> disclose early termination fees that can cost customers hundreds of
> dollars.
>
> The Federal Trade Commission sued Adobe and two of its executives Thursday,
> claiming the Photoshop maker hides early termination fees on its most
> popular subscription and makes it difficult for customers to cancel.
>
> The federal regulator said in its complaint that Adobe does not adequately
> disclose the fees, which are calculated as 50% of the remaining payments
> when customers cancel in their first year. According to the FTC, those fees
> can reach hundreds of dollars.
>

About time they got caught for something. They've been nasty
pricegougers for decades and repeatedly tried to monopolize
markets. (Photoshop, Flash, AIR, Acrobat) As I understand it, if
you quit their rental without saving all your images locally then
you lose them without warning. I wonder how many CS customers
know that.

In article <v4rt8t$1bb3h$1@dont-email.me>,
Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
....
>you lose them without warning. I wonder how many CS customers
>know that.

CS?

--
When someone tells me he/she is a Christian I check to see if I'm
still in possession of my wallet.

On Tue, 18 Jun 2024 12:35:53 -0000 (UTC), Kenny McCormack wrote:

>>you lose them without warning. I wonder how many CS customers
>>know that.
>
> CS?

I only briefly tested out the Adobe Photoshop Creative Suite 2 version 9.0
on Windows 10, which includes Illustrator, ImageReady, InDesign, Cue &
Bridge when the free version was listed on this & on the freeware group.

<https://www.techspot.com/downloads/4948-adobe-creative-suite-free.html>

It works fine on Windows 10 but I prefer Paint.NET, which does everything
that PhotoShop does without the complexity (and yes, I hate NET Framework
as much as anyone does, and I'm as well aware of The GIMP as anyone is).

At Tue, 18 Jun 2024 12:35:53 -0000 (UTC) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) wrote:

>
> In article <v4rt8t$1bb3h$1@dont-email.me>,
> Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> ...
> >you lose them without warning. I wonder how many CS customers
> >know that.
>
> CS?

Creative Suite: Basically all of Adobe's software: Photoshop, Illustrator,
etc. bundled together.

>

--
Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services
heller@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services

On Tue, 18 Jun 2024 08:07:07 -0400, Newyana2 wrote:

> About time they got caught for something. They've been nasty
> pricegougers for decades and repeatedly tried to monopolize
> markets. (Photoshop, Flash, AIR, Acrobat) As I understand it, if
> you quit their rental without saving all your images locally then
> you lose them without warning. I wonder how many CS customers
> know that.

When you compare what Adobe PhotoShop does to what Pinta is supposed to do,
PhotoShop wins; but when you compare with Paintnet, then Photoshop loses.

https://www.dotpdn.com/downloads/pdn.html

But do NOT press "paint.net 5.0.13" at the top right, as that's a trick.
Instead, press "Offline Installers & Portable Zips" below that, which
brings you to the offline installer web page for paint.net freeware.

https://github.com/paintdotnet/release/releases/tag/v5.0.13

Most likely you'll want either the 64-bit portable or installer exe,
but the source code is also available if you'd like to look through it.

https://github.com/paintdotnet/release/releases/download/v5.0.13/paint.net.5.0.13.portable.x64.zip
Name: paint.net.5.0.13.portable.x64.zip
Size: 92478946 bytes (88 MiB)
SHA256: 821D42D4637225E403468978860F8F30B181DE386985C1083E3D382F03B4AD50

https://github.com/paintdotnet/release/releases/download/v5.0.13/paint.net.5.0.13.install.x64.zip
Name: paint.net.5.0.13.install.x64.zip
Size: 65526921 bytes (62 MiB)
SHA256: 76317FF71C2A9E1868193F7DBBC5AF1CA495A0E88AF2381A8636D0348B2357C7

Once you've used paint.net, you'll never want to use PhotoShop ever again,
unless you already are an expert in PhotoShop's convoluted menu structure).

The advantage of PhotoShop over paint.net is that it works on Apple
products, but the advantage of paint.net is the sheer simplicity while at
the same time, copying most of the commonly used PhotoShop functionality.

If you think there's something PhotoShop does that paint.net doesn't do,
let me know.

hth, ymmv, imho applies

On 6/18/2024 12:34 PM, Harry S Robins wrote:

>
> If you think there's something PhotoShop does that paint.net doesn't do,
> let me know.

I've always avoided Paint.Net because it's always required the
latest .Net runtime. It originally started out as a salespitch for .Net.
But since you made it so easy, I decided to download and give it
a try. :)

I mostly use PSP 5. I also have PSP16, but Corel made a mess
of it, bloating it with frivolous functions. For editing photos and
doing general graphics, PSP5 does most of what I need. Occasionally
I want to work with RAW photos and I use PSP/Aftershot Pro 16
for that.

I see RAW is not lincuded in Paint.Net's "all image types". And their
color picker is a mess. No settings menu... Oh, there it is. A gear
icon way over on the right. But there are almost no settings. And
someone opening that made the color picker go gray! OK, lets's
try restarting. I'll draw a rectangle. What could go wrong? Well,
there's no control window to set the color, line thickness, etc. Instead
I only see an idiotic History window that keeps telling me what I
just did. It seems that I just drew 2 blue rectangles. Coulda fooled me.
And why are there 100 shapes to choose from when I just wanted a
rectangle?

The whole thing is very much non-standard and non-intuitive.
The thing with graphics is that 95% of it is simple and the methods
have been around since the 90s. If someone wants to remove an
object from an image, make Lizzo look like she's not fat, make
Madonna look like she's not old, or make Gisele Bundchen look like
she has hips, Photoshop is tops. For basic graphics, something
like Paint.net is poorly designed overkill. And I doubt that it does much
of anything that Paint Shop Pro from 1999 can't do. These days most
of that functionality is a dime a dozen. The only major reason for a
graphics editor is to get an MDI window with layers and multiple undo.

Checking out Paint.Net was interesting, though. I've seen it talked
about for years now and never actually saw that pitiful excuse
for an interface before.

At Tue, 18 Jun 2024 11:34:07 -0500 Harry S Robins <stanleyrobins@nothere.uk> wrote:

>
> On Tue, 18 Jun 2024 08:07:07 -0400, Newyana2 wrote:
>
> > About time they got caught for something. They've been nasty
> > pricegougers for decades and repeatedly tried to monopolize
> > markets. (Photoshop, Flash, AIR, Acrobat) As I understand it, if
> > you quit their rental without saving all your images locally then
> > you lose them without warning. I wonder how many CS customers
> > know that.
>
> When you compare what Adobe PhotoShop does to what Pinta is supposed to do,
> PhotoShop wins; but when you compare with Paintnet, then Photoshop loses.

*I've* only ever used GIMP -- I have only ever had Linux desktops, so
Photoshop was never an option for me (even if I wanted to use it). GIMP does
everything I've ever wanted to do.

>
> https://www.dotpdn.com/downloads/pdn.html
>
> But do NOT press "paint.net 5.0.13" at the top right, as that's a trick.
> Instead, press "Offline Installers & Portable Zips" below that, which
> brings you to the offline installer web page for paint.net freeware.
>
> https://github.com/paintdotnet/release/releases/tag/v5.0.13
>
> Most likely you'll want either the 64-bit portable or installer exe,
> but the source code is also available if you'd like to look through it.
>
> https://github.com/paintdotnet/release/releases/download/v5.0.13/paint.net.5.0.13.portable.x64.zip
> Name: paint.net.5.0.13.portable.x64.zip
> Size: 92478946 bytes (88 MiB)
> SHA256: 821D42D4637225E403468978860F8F30B181DE386985C1083E3D382F03B4AD50
>
> https://github.com/paintdotnet/release/releases/download/v5.0.13/paint.net.5.0.13.install.x64.zip
> Name: paint.net.5.0.13.install.x64.zip
> Size: 65526921 bytes (62 MiB)
> SHA256: 76317FF71C2A9E1868193F7DBBC5AF1CA495A0E88AF2381A8636D0348B2357C7
>
> Once you've used paint.net, you'll never want to use PhotoShop ever again,
> unless you already are an expert in PhotoShop's convoluted menu structure).
>
> The advantage of PhotoShop over paint.net is that it works on Apple
> products, but the advantage of paint.net is the sheer simplicity while at
> the same time, copying most of the commonly used PhotoShop functionality.
>
> If you think there's something PhotoShop does that paint.net doesn't do,
> let me know.
>
> hth, ymmv, imho applies
>
>

--
Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services
heller@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services

On Tue, 18 Jun 2024 13:05:14 -0400, Newyana2 wrote:

> I've always avoided Paint.Net because it's always required the
> latest .Net runtime. It originally started out as a salespitch for .Net.
> But since you made it so easy, I decided to download and give it
> a try. :)

I'm not an author of any editing programs and I'm aware that you are an
author of programs which do make extensive queries of image formats.

Hence I can't disagree about what you said, which was it was funded by
Microsoft for a graduate student to implement an example of a net framework
app that, in this case, was designed to do everything important that
photoshop did.

Paintnet is supposed to be replaced by Pinta, which works on Linux, Mac,
Windows, and BSD. https://www.pinta-project.com/ Current Version: 2.1.2

Last I checked, Pinta wasn't ready for prime time - but it has been a few
years since I tested Pinta. https://www.pinta-project.com/releases/

Given Pinta works on most platforms, I know it has a GTK requirement,
which it will install if it needs it, but I'm not sure about .NET needs.

https://github.com/PintaProject/Pinta/releases/download/2.1.2/Pinta.exe
Name: Pinta.exe
Size: 57256744 bytes (54 MiB)
SHA256: 5E0A8D5AF1A1807AE6D5C57ED2C1969B5B1AC0A110B2C015C0C8C09DE1F06465

Both Pinta & Paintnet are free & intended to do what PhotoShop does most.

Let me know if there's anything in either that you think is important that
you think PhotoShop does as when I lasted tested, PhotoShop lost big time.

> I mostly use PSP 5. I also have PSP16, but Corel made a mess
> of it, bloating it with frivolous functions. For editing photos and
> doing general graphics, PSP5 does most of what I need. Occasionally
> I want to work with RAW photos and I use PSP/Aftershot Pro 16
> for that.

What I dislike most about the last known good version of Paint Shop Pro was
that it messes with your right click context and pulldown menus like crazy.

That wouldn't be so bad if PSP 5.01 simply undid the menu mess it made when
you uninstall paint shop pro 5.01, but it doesn't. In Windows 10, the paint
shop pro 5.01 installer leaves a broken mess of menus behind (ask me how I
know this).

PSP 5.01 even adds a context menu to the recycle bin. Who needs that crap.
Anyway the last known good version is here but that doesn't work with
javascript turned off. http://www.oldversion.com/windows/paint-shop-pro

But looking in the Windows 10 archives I see it's also found over here.
https://winworldpc.com/product/paint-shop-pro/5x

They have every version there.
Does anyone know what the last known good version of PSP really is?

> I see RAW is not lincuded in Paint.Net's "all image types".

There are a billion plugins for Paint.NET, which is one of its strengths.
https://forums.getpaint.net/topic/114661-can-paintnet-read-raw-files/

> And their color picker is a mess. No settings menu...

There's a plugin for that, but I have no experience with that plugin.
https://forums.getpaint.net/topic/26399-plugin-for-a-better-color-picker/

> Oh, there it is. A gear
> icon way over on the right. But there are almost no settings. And
> someone opening that made the color picker go gray! OK, lets's
> try restarting.

There's an active forum if you need help in using Paint.NET.
And I'm sure there's ample documentation (just press the "F1" key).
https://www.getpaint.net/doc/latest/HelpMenu.html

> I'll draw a rectangle. What could go wrong? Well,
> there's no control window to set the color, line thickness, etc.

Ah. You missed completely teh sheer beauty of Paint.NET's methods!
You draw first and then you edit it easily. Very nice indeed.

a. First, draw a box.
b. Then change the color (as desired) or dashes (if desired).
c. Change the width (if desired).
d. Move the corners (if desired) or rotate it (if desired).

With Paint.NET, you first do the thing you're doing, like writing text, and
then you change any attribute about that thing that you want to change.

That's the smart way to do it.

Bear in mind that if you use the same colors and shapes and even the same
commands after you choose the colors, you can set all that as the default.

The dumb way is the way The GIMP does it.

With The GIMP, you have to decide everything before you do it, even the
text box size, which is a ridiculously absurd methodology (unless you're
doing teh same thing a million times).

> Instead
> I only see an idiotic History window that keeps telling me what I
> just did. It seems that I just drew 2 blue rectangles. Coulda fooled me.
> And why are there 100 shapes to choose from when I just wanted a
> rectangle?

There are many options. If all you want is a rectangle, ignore them.

> The whole thing is very much non-standard and non-intuitive.

Compare it to PhotoShop or The GIMP. Then let me know what you think.

> The thing with graphics is that 95% of it is simple and the methods
> have been around since the 90s. If someone wants to remove an
> object from an image, make Lizzo look like she's not fat, make
> Madonna look like she's not old, or make Gisele Bundchen look like
> she has hips, Photoshop is tops.

I'm well aware of PhotoshopCS29.0:Filter > Liquify commands where PhotShop
has a nice GUI for easily warping GUI with a circle that *easily* modifies
the picture. You can load and save a "mesh" which is a grid of small,
medium and large sizes with options of "Brush Size", "Brush Density",
"Brush Pressure", "Brush Rate", "Turbulent Jiter", Reconstruct Mode, Stylus
Pressure, Reconstruct Options, Mask Options, View Options, etc.

The "Brush Rate" & "Turbulent Jiter" are fixed and unchangable, but the
rest are settable.

However, for just removing blemishes and making people thinner, I prefer
the last known good version (version 1.3) of Vicman Photo Editor, which
includes cartoonist. http://www.vicman.net/cartoonist/

> For basic graphics, something like Paint.net is poorly designed overkill.

If you say that about Paint.NET and about The Gimp and Pinta, then what do
you use on Windows that is free that is, in your opinion, better designed?

Remember the whole point of this thread is Adobe is purely evil software.
So what do you use that is free and which is better than PhotoShop is?

> And I doubt that it does much
> of anything that Paint Shop Pro from 1999 can't do. These days most
> of that functionality is a dime a dozen. The only major reason for a
> graphics editor is to get an MDI window with layers and multiple undo.

I don't denigrate Paint Shop Pro for anything other than it screws with the
menus like you can't believe - and then it doesn't undo what it screwed
with. If you don't believe me on that, then I want to see a screenshot of
your rightclick context menu when you right click on "New" for example.

> Checking out Paint.Net was interesting, though. I've seen it talked
> about for years now and never actually saw that pitiful excuse
> for an interface before.

Try this with any other free Windows program and you will change your mind.

1. First write some text and then change the size & color of that text
2. Then draw a line (not with the pencil but with the arrow)
3. Change that line in shape, length, dashes, color & arrowheads

Having tested every known freeware image editing program available on
Windows, I posit that there is no app that does that better than paint.net.

Mind you, you're welcome to hate paint.net (I hate net framework too).
But you seem to be looking for a reason to hate it.

Just try texting and drawing curved arrows in any other free program.
Nobody does it easier than Paint.net does it (unfortunately).

But if you think PSP is easier to text & draw curved arrows, then try it
and let me know as I gave up on PSP mostly because of its menu hassles.

On 6/18/2024 2:25 PM, Harry S Robins wrote:

>
> What I dislike most about the last known good version of Paint Shop Pro was
> that it messes with your right click context and pulldown menus like crazy.
>
Pulldown menus? I haven't had any trouble, and I don't
see any menu item on the recycle context menu. I actually
added "Open with PSP" myself for all files.

But PSP5 does have shortcomings. It doesn't handle PNG,
much less HEIF or WEBP. It doesn't handle transparent GIFs.
I once bought PSP7, but it just had too much frivolous
junk.

I guess it really depends on what you want to do.
People who use PS are usually like the people who use MS Office.
They're happy to pay through the nose because they use it
all day for work and they know it intimately. Or, because they're
amateurs who want to use the same tools "the big guys" use.
So they pay through the nose for PS and then they talk gravely
about their "workflow".

Some people only
need Notepad. I find Libre Office is more than I need for
anything I do, like designing contracts, receipts, address labels,
office stationery, etc. But I can see how someone like a professor
or lawyer wouldn't have a problem with paying for MS Office. They
use it constantly and they can write it off.

I used to have an architect friend who managed the tech in
his office. At one point he was updating all of the MS Office
installs at about $500 each. I asked him why he spent so much
money when the old version was nearly identical. He told me
that having an older version looked unprofessional. He was paying
some $3000 for nothing more than swank among peers.

>> And their color picker is a mess. No settings menu...
>
> There's a plugin for that, but I have no experience with that plugin.
> https://forums.getpaint.net/topic/26399-plugin-for-a-better-color-picker/
>
A plugin to get a decent colorpicker?

>>    The whole thing is very much non-standard and non-intuitive.
>
> Compare it to PhotoShop or The GIMP. Then let me know what you think.

I did just compare it. Software should keep to standards, so that
each program doesn't have to be learned new. I've avoided the GIMP
largely because it's a pet project that's not designed properly. Last I
saw they didn't even have a real MDI window. Just a lot of lfoating
toolbars.
I haven't used PS since the 90s, so I can't compare to that.

I like software that's standard, efficient, and doesn't add silly extras.
Increasingly I'm finding programs that provide few options. Paint.Net
is a good example. Chrome is another. Absolutely no menu option, which
makes no sense on desktops/laptops. Awhile back I was looking for a
basic ZIP program. Years ago I used PoweArchiver. Then I switched to
Filzip. Basic. Functional. But it choked on more exotic file types. I tried
one program with a dark yellow window that I couldn't change. I finally
settled on PeaZip. The name is silly, the icon is sillier, the UI is
annoyingly Metro-ish. But none of that is a problem, and it works
dependably.

One of the things I hate about PSP 16 is a terrible UI design. I can
choose beteen charcoal or black/orange window frames. Huh? It should
display in the colors I've chosen for Windows. Then it has its own Explorer
section, which can't be removed. It tries to do too much and doesn't
respect the user's preferences.

> However, for just removing blemishes and making people thinner, I prefer
> the last known good version (version 1.3) of Vicman Photo Editor, which
> includes cartoonist. http://www.vicman.net/cartoonist/
>
Interesting. I've never heard of that. There are so many decent programs
out there. There's one called PhotoDemon that's written in VB6. Surprisingly
good, though it also has a funky color selector.

>> For basic graphics, something like Paint.net is poorly designed overkill.
>
> If you say that about Paint.NET and about The Gimp and Pinta, then what do
> you use on Windows that is free that is, in your opinion, better designed?
>
As I said, I mostly use PSP5.

> Remember the whole point of this thread is Adobe is purely evil software.
> So what do you use that is free and which is better than PhotoShop is?
>
This gets back to what you want/need to do. PSP5 mostly does what
I need. I optimize photos. I design quirky greeting cards. I make quickie
diagrams... I'm not a pro photographer. I occasionally fire up PSP16 for
things like "high-end" sharpening, but I can't say that I find it can
do things better than PSP5. To get a good photo means starting with
a good photo, preferably RAW. For editing JPGs to go on websites, PSP5
is good. I doubt PS could do better. But if a pro photographer said PS
makes
all the difference, I'd believe them. For them it may be true.

> I don't denigrate Paint Shop Pro for anything other than it screws with the
> menus like you can't believe - and then it doesn't undo what it screwed
> with. If you don't believe me on that, then I want to see a screenshot of
> your rightclick context menu when you right click on "New" for example.
>

That's true. It does add that every time it starts. I used to have a
VBScript that I used as a sgortcut to start PSP. The script would
shell PSP, wait a few seconds, then delete that New key. :) But I've
never seen it screw up anything else. I think of that as the barbarism
of the 90s. The good old days when both Netscape and IE woulu
break the other's Registry keys. :)

> Just try texting and drawing curved arrows in any other free program.
> Nobody does it easier than Paint.net does it (unfortunately).
>
I'll keep that in mind, in case I ever want to draw a curved arrow.

On 6/18/2024 2:25 PM, Harry S Robins wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Jun 2024 13:05:14 -0400, Newyana2 wrote:
>
>>     I've always avoided Paint.Net because it's always required the
>> latest .Net runtime. It originally started out as a salespitch for .Net.
>> But since you made it so easy, I decided to download and give it
>> a try. :)
>
> I'm not an author of any editing programs and I'm aware that you are an
> author of programs which do make extensive queries of image formats.
>
> Hence I can't disagree about what you said, which was it was funded by
> Microsoft for a graduate student to implement an example of a net framework
> app that, in this case, was designed to do everything important that
> photoshop did.
>
> Paintnet is supposed to be replaced by Pinta, which works on Linux, Mac,
> Windows, and BSD.  https://www.pinta-project.com/ Current Version: 2.1.2
>
> Last I checked, Pinta wasn't ready for prime time - but it has been a few
> years since I tested Pinta. https://www.pinta-project.com/releases/
>
> Given Pinta works on most platforms, I know it has a GTK requirement, which it will install if it needs it, but I'm not sure about .NET needs.
>
> https://github.com/PintaProject/Pinta/releases/download/2.1.2/Pinta.exe
> Name: Pinta.exe
> Size: 57256744 bytes (54 MiB)
> SHA256: 5E0A8D5AF1A1807AE6D5C57ED2C1969B5B1AC0A110B2C015C0C8C09DE1F06465

This is what Pinta.exe has in it.

AtkSharp.dll
CairoSharp.dll
Clipper.dll
clretwrc.dll
clrgc.dll
clrjit.dll
coreclr.dll
createdump.exe
fc-cache.exe
fc-cat.exe
fc-list.exe
fc-match.exe
fc-pattern.exe
fc-query.exe
fc-scan.exe
fc-validate.exe
gdbus.exe
gdk-pixbuf-query-loaders.exe
GdkSharp.dll
GioSharp.dll
GLibSharp.dll
gspawn-win64-helper-console.exe
gspawn-win64-helper.exe
gtk-query-immodules-3.0.exe
gtk-update-icon-cache.exe
gtk3_runtime_uninst.exe
GtkSharp.dll
HELPER_EXE_AMD64
hostfxr.dll
hostpolicy.dll
ICSharpCode.SharpZipLib.dll
libatk-1.0-0.dll
libbrotlicommon.dll
libbrotlidec.dll
libbz2-1.dll
libcairo-2.dll
libcairo-gobject-2.dll
libcairo-script-interpreter-2.dll
libcroco-0.6-3.dll
libdatrie-1.dll
libepoxy-0.dll
libexpat-1.dll
libexslt-0.dll
libffi-7.dll
libfontconfig-1.dll
libfreetype-6.dll
libfribidi-0.dll
libgailutil-3-0.dll
Microsoft.Bcl.AsyncInterfaces.dll
Microsoft.CSharp.dll
Microsoft.DiaSymReader.Native.amd64.dll
Microsoft.VisualBasic.Core.dll
Microsoft.VisualBasic.dll
Microsoft.Win32.Primitives.dll
Microsoft.Win32.Registry.dll
MINIDUMP_EMBEDDED_AUXILIARY_PROVIDER
mscordbi.dll
mscorlib.dll
mscorrc.dll
msquic.dll
MyConsoleApp.runtimeconfig.json
netstandard.dll
NGettext.dll
PangoSharp.dll
Pinta.Core.dll
Pinta.deps.json
Pinta.dll
Pinta.Docking.dll
Pinta.Effects.dll
Pinta.exe
Pinta.Gui.Widgets.dll
Pinta.Resources.dll
Pinta.Resources.resources.dll
Pinta.tmp <=== an EXE file
Pinta.Tools.dll
System.AppContext.dll
System.Buffers.dll
System.Collections.Concurrent.dll
System.Collections.dll
System.Collections.Immutable.dll
System.Collections.NonGeneric.dll
System.Collections.Specialized.dll
System.ComponentModel.Annotations.dll
System.ComponentModel.DataAnnotations.dll
System.ComponentModel.dll
System.ComponentModel.EventBasedAsync.dll
System.ComponentModel.Primitives.dll
System.ComponentModel.TypeConverter.dll
System.Configuration.dll
System.Console.dll
System.Core.dll
System.Data.Common.dll
System.Data.DataSetExtensions.dll
System.Data.dll
System.Diagnostics.Contracts.dll
System.Diagnostics.Debug.dll
System.Diagnostics.DiagnosticSource.dll
System.Diagnostics.FileVersionInfo.dll
System.Diagnostics.Process.dll
System.Diagnostics.StackTrace.dll
System.Diagnostics.TextWriterTraceListener.dll
System.Diagnostics.Tools.dll
System.Diagnostics.TraceSource.dll
System.Diagnostics.Tracing.dll
System.dll
System.Drawing.dll
System.Drawing.Primitives.dll
System.Dynamic.Runtime.dll
System.Formats.Asn1.dll
System.Formats.Tar.dll
System.Globalization.Calendars.dll
System.Globalization.dll
System.Globalization.Extensions.dll
System.IO.Compression.Brotli.dll
System.IO.Compression.dll
System.IO.Compression.FileSystem.dll
System.IO.Compression.Native.dll
System.IO.Compression.ZipFile.dll
System.IO.dll
System.IO.FileSystem.AccessControl.dll
System.IO.FileSystem.dll
System.IO.FileSystem.DriveInfo.dll
System.IO.FileSystem.Primitives.dll
System.ValueTuple.dll
System.Web.dll
System.Web.HttpUtility.dll
System.Windows.dll
System.Xml.dll
System.Xml.Linq.dll
System.Xml.ReaderWriter.dll
System.Xml.Serialization.dll
System.Xml.XDocument.dll
System.Xml.XmlDocument.dll
System.Xml.XmlSerializer.dll
System.Xml.XPath.dll
System.Xml.XPath.XDocument.dll
Tmds.DBus.dll
unins000.exe
WindowsBase.dll

Smells a bit of dotNET.

Paul

On Tue, 18 Jun 2024 18:26:21 -0400, Paul wrote:

> This is what Pinta.exe has in it.
> Smells a bit of dotNET.

Thanks for checking Pinta out. Since it works on all platforms, maybe they
"ported" dotNET to those other platforms (or GTK?) with all those modules?

The history, as I know it (which I might not know it well), is Paint.NET
was meant to beat the shit out of PhotoShop on Windows (using dotNET).

In my opinion, since Paint.NET is free, and since it has billions of
plugins to do the things that people need done, it accomplished that task.

But Paint.NET only runs on Windows, whereas Pinta runs on everything.

The guy who tested Paint.NET didn't like it, but if he's comparing to
PhotoShop on Windows, you can't compare them given Paint.NET is free.

And if he's comparing to PaintShopPro, that's not free either (for the
later releases), so there's really no direct 1:1 comparison possible.

Nothing preventing someone from installing all of them, which is what I
have done on my system, but that includes a LOT of image editing tools.
<https://i.postimg.cc/JnkRd0QG/vectoreditor.jpg>

dir /b imageeditors
artweaver
faststone
fotor
fotosketcher
ghostscript
gimp
imagemagick
inkscape
irfanview
jsware_crop
krita
morph
paint.net
paintstar
photodemon
photopad
pinta
vicman_last_good_version
xnview
psp_shareware
photome
freehandpaint

If one wants to look at 3D vector editors, there's even more.
dir /b 3deditors
blender
draftsight
freecadweb
fusion360
inkscape
sketchup
madview
onshape
sweethome3d
amabilis
leocad
progecad

Don't even get me started on exif editors, video editors, screenshot
editors, etc.

On Tue, 18 Jun 2024 16:30:21 -0400, Newyana2 wrote:

> This gets back to what you want/need to do.

I agree with you that what editor you like most depends on what you do the
most, where I've tried every single free image editor ever suggested here.
<https://i.postimg.cc/YCHMDt4S/imageeditor.jpg>

And every free 3D vector CAD editor that has ever been suggested here.
<https://i.postimg.cc/JnkRd0QG/vectoreditor.jpg>

I've tried every free PDF editor also ever suggested on this newsgroup.
<https://i.postimg.cc/hPn8138q/pdfeditor.jpg>

And every free audio editor too.
<https://i.postimg.cc/qMbvmNfx/audio.jpg>

Every free codec.
<https://i.postimg.cc/GtVxQMzW/codec.jpg>

Every free converter.
<https://i.postimg.cc/XY0wYBPk/converter.jpg>

And every free video editor.
<https://i.postimg.cc/5ybHLTh7/video.jpg>

Also every free epub editor and converter out there.
<https://i.postimg.cc/bdf2r4mw/epub.jpg>

And every free EXIF editor too.
<https://i.postimg.cc/ZYGstcrf/exif.jpg>

And every free screenrecorder every mentioned.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Hx55QQVx/screenrecorder.jpg>

And every free suite of editing tools, for the most part.
<https://i.postimg.cc/ZRkvKCVh/suite.jpg>

Even every free icon editor ever mentioned, I've tried.
<https://i.postimg.cc/W4YS96Nw/icon.jpg>

I would say, given I've run every single program listed above, that I have
"some" experience with freeware editors, where if I say that Paint.NET
works well, you can rest assured that it works for what I say it does.

If you don't like it, then that's fine, but I gave you the reasons I don't
like Paint Shop Pro and that's fine too. To each his/her own, right?

I'm simply trying to help.

On 6/18/2024 9:02 PM, Harry S Robins wrote:

> If you don't like it, then that's fine, but I gave you the reasons I don't
> like Paint Shop Pro and that's fine too. To each his/her own, right?
>
> I'm simply trying to help.

No problem. I have no issue with disagreement. It often
provides helpful information. I'm curious... Is there some kind
of freeware FTP heaven that you use? Your images look
like screenshots from an FTP page.

On 6/18/2024 8:32 PM, Harry S Robins wrote:

> Don't even get me started on exif editors, video editors, screenshot
> editors, etc.

You're like a flash from the past. A return to the heyday of
the PC craze around the late 90s and early 00s. I remember
when I first got a computer (late '98) I loved going to the download
sites to download new stuff. At one point I ran into someone who
was very pleased to have 5 or 6 startup managers lined up on his
Start Menu. :)

As much as I was thrilled by my new hobby, I didn't use a computer
for work and didn't actually have any use for it. I was like an Amazonian
tribesman who's found a car and just gets a big thrill out of making
the windows go up and down.

Up until that point I'd been making fun of people who paid $300
for PDAs and then would take 10 minutes to record my phone
number on it. (I understand that today PDA stands for "public display
of affection". As in "Ben seen here pouring on the PDA with JLo.")

On Wed, 19 Jun 2024 07:52:28 -0400, Newyana2 wrote:

>> If you don't like it, then that's fine, but I gave you the reasons I don't
>> like Paint Shop Pro and that's fine too. To each his/her own, right?
>>
>> I'm simply trying to help.
>
> No problem. I have no issue with disagreement. It often
> provides helpful information. I'm curious... Is there some kind
> of freeware FTP heaven that you use? Your images look
> like screenshots from an FTP page.

Thanks for understanding that not everyone likes every GUI, and that's
fine, where what I find most useful in Paintnet is the way it does text and
curved arrows which I personally think is the most efficient way to do it
(where I think The GIMP uses the least efficient way, by contrast example).

As for freeware havens, I'm sure there are plenty of freeware FTP havens,
and I've even seen a few mentioned on the alt.comp.freeware ng which you
can search with this URL (which works for any newsgroup you want to search)
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/search.php?group=full.newsgroup.name>

For alt.comp.freeware & rec.photo.digital & alt.comp.os.windows-10, use:
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/search.php?group=alt.comp.freeware>
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/search.php?group=rec.photo.digital>
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/search.php?group=alt.comp.os.windows-10>

Although the Google Groups archives (no longer updated) go back farther:
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.freeware>
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.photo.digital>
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.os.microsoft.windows>

What I do is every time someone suggests a freeware editor, I test it out.

And then I write up a log in my archival location and if I need that
freeware editor in the future, I go through my logs to refresh my memory.

As for those screenshots, those are all off my own Windows 10 PC.
<https://i.postimg.cc/qMbvmNfx/audio.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/YCHMDt4S/imageeditor.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/JnkRd0QG/vectoreditor.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/GtVxQMzW/codec.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/XY0wYBPk/converter.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/bdf2r4mw/epub.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/ZYGstcrf/exif.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/W4YS96Nw/icon.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/TYj08X2w/imageeditor.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/hPn8138q/pdfeditor.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/Hx55QQVx/screenrecorder.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/ZRkvKCVh/suite.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/5ybHLTh7/video.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/P5g510ZW/vectoreditor.jpg>

If I'm missing anything, let me know and I'll try it if it's useful to me.

On Wed, 19 Jun 2024 08:04:52 -0400, Newyana2 wrote:

>> Don't even get me started on exif editors, video editors, screenshot
>> editors, etc.
>
> You're like a flash from the past. A return to the heyday of
> the PC craze around the late 90s and early 00s. I remember
> when I first got a computer (late '98) I loved going to the download
> sites to download new stuff. At one point I ran into someone who
> was very pleased to have 5 or 6 startup managers lined up on his
> Start Menu. :)
>
> As much as I was thrilled by my new hobby, I didn't use a computer
> for work and didn't actually have any use for it. I was like an Amazonian
> tribesman who's found a car and just gets a big thrill out of making
> the windows go up and down.
>
> Up until that point I'd been making fun of people who paid $300
> for PDAs and then would take 10 minutes to record my phone
> number on it. (I understand that today PDA stands for "public display
> of affection". As in "Ben seen here pouring on the PDA with JLo.")

I use freeware exclusively on the PC for editing, where I'm well aware you
can subscribe to any number of services to do editing of images & video.

For audio, my editor of choice is audacity & for meta data, mp3tag.
For listening to audio, I mostly use MPC-BE (it's fast, like Irfanview).
For images, I mostly use Irfanview (for the simple edits).
For images, I mostly use Paint.NET (for the harder edits).
For 3D, I'd use Blender (or Krita, but I don't do vector graphics much).
For complex video tasks I'd mostly use Shotcut.
For video viewing, I'd use mostly VLC for movies (MPC-BE for simple stuff).
For video trimming, it gets complicated with avisynth & lame/ffmpeg cmds.

But what gets really complicated is editing of PDFs using Windows freeware!

This is the latest chart I pulled off the ng (which needs updating).
[x] Fast PDF reader: (Sumatra or Foxit)
[x] Shrink PDFs (ImageMagick or Acrobat payware or rlvision shareware)
[x] Edit PDF existing text (Adobe Reader commenting, Acrobat payware)
[x] Globally search & replace PDF text (Libre Office)
[x] Archive sites (wkhtmltopdf, Acrobat payware,fastone scroll capture)
[x] Add or concatonate pages (pdftk, acrobat payware)
[x] Remove pages (pdfsam, pdftk)
[x] Rotate pages (Acrobat Reader)
[x] Renumber pages (Acrobat Reader)
[x] Permissions (Ghostscript & Ghostview/ps2edit/pdfwrite or pdf2djvu)
[x] Merge PDFs (pdfsam, pdftk)
[x] Extract images (PDF Exchange Viewer, PDF Shaper)
[x] Reorder pages (mutool)
[x] Print sans username in the properties (Libre Office Writer)
[?] Print book format PDF (FinePrint payware)
[x] Tile PDFs (i.e., to print large posters) (Posterazor)
[x] Create PDF new text (Irfanview or Paint.NET plugins + Ghostscript)
[x] Convert PDF to MSWord or any epub format & vice versa (Calibre)
[x] Add signature (Adobe Reader Fill-and-sign sign-yourself tool)
[x] Online shrink PDF https://www.adobe.com/acrobat/online/compress-pdf.html