Alan Browne wrote on Thu, 30 May 2024 19:18:55 -0400 :

> The "general" case is that it is absolutely not an Apple issue.
> SSID/BSSID's are OPENLY AND LOUDLY BROADCAST WORLDIWDE IN THE BILLIONS.

The fact is you're defending Apple's holes, to the death, no matter what.

Every desperate excuse you make for the flaws in Apple's implementation
show you not understand what only Apple does that's different here.

Worse, you were not aware the outward facing MAC address cannot be cloned
(in almost all routers and particularly in the tested travel routers).

And you were not aware that the SSID is meaningless for this exploit, other
than the workaround that Apple suggested (of appending _nomac to the SSID).

Furthermore, you're still not aware that a "hidden broadcast" has been a
feature of nearly every router since the dawn of Wi-Fi, where the mere act
of clicking that checkbox prevents the BSSID from being *uploaded* to the
Google and Apple and Mozilla and Wigle databases, by default. (See notes in
the sig, given the Apple religious zealots don't understand this issue).

While you're frantically desperate to fabricate excuses for Apple's
vulnerabilities, you don't ever show any understanding of them.

Notes in the sig given Apple religious zealots don't understand anything.
--
Note 1: The hidden broadcast won't hide the BSSID from a seasoned attacker
(such as a Google or Apple transit vehicle - depending on how its code is
written); but the mere act of hiding the SSID broadcast packet has been
proven to prevent the normal users' device (i.e., mobile phones) from
uploading your BSSID using the typical software that we are speaking about

Note 2: Since the Apple religious zealots act only out of franctic
desperation to make excuses for all Apple's vulnerabilities, it should be
noted that an intelligent person knows the difference between the upload of
the BSSID (which is a first-order issue) vs the deletion of the BSSID from
the Internet databases (which requires second-order software processing).

Note 3: There's no way the Apple religious zealots will understand the two
notes above, but for the intelligent people reading this thread, it should
be noted that if you do hide your broadcast packets, then you often might
want to set your client (such as a phone) to "remember" and "reconnect";
but this has other issues - where the Apple zealots won't understand but
you might understand that the "remember" is fine (unless you're worried
about your phone being stolen) but the "automatic reconnect" should be
turned off because that setting causes the phone to seek out the named AP.

> TheRegister reports Apple is throwing UK residents' privacy under the bus.
> https://www.theregister.com/2024/05/23/apple_wifi_positioning_system/
>
> "The threat applies even to users that do not own devices for which the
> WPSes are designed - individuals who own no Apple products, for instance,
> can have their AP in Apple's WPS merely by having Apple devices come within
> Wi-Fi transmission range."
>
> Here's the paper.
> https://www.cs.umd.edu/~dml/papers/wifi-surveillance-sp24.pdf

Here's more information about Apple's privacy flaw which affects everyone.

[https://9to5mac.com/2024/05/24/apple-location-services-vulnerability/]
"There is one crucial difference between the way in which
Apple and Google devices carry out this task
and that's exactly where the privacy issue arises."

[https://www.macworld.com/article/2343297/apple-wi-fi-network-wps-vulnerability-location-services-leak.html]
"Researchers have discovered a crucial vulnerability in the way
only Apple's location services work"

[https://www.govinfosecurity.com/surveillance-risk-apples-wifi-based-positioning-system-a-25330]
"The attack risk stems from Apple's WiFi-based Positioning System, or WPS"

[https://9to5mac.com/2024/05/24/apple-location-services-vulnerability/]
"We need to understand Apple devices figure out locations differently"

[https://securityboulevard.com/2024/05/apple-wi-fi-location-privacy-richixbw/]
"An unrestricted Apple API endpoint allows for easy tracking."

[https://cybernews.com/privacy/apple-beams-wifi-location-data-privacy-risk/]
"Anyone can exploit Apple's flawed WiFi-based positioning system (WPS)*

[https://arxiv.org/abs/2405.14975]
"In this work, we show that Apple's flawed WPS can too easily be abused"

Group : comp.sys.mac.system
Statistics : from 5/1/2024 to 5/31/2024

***** Users with most messages *****
num| Name | Nb Msg | size | or. | %
----|-------------------------|--------|---------|-----|------------------|
1 | Andrew | 48 | 157,527 | 11 | 34.29%
xxxxxxxxxx
2 | Jolly Roger | 33 | 87,339 | 0 | 23.57% xxxxxx
3 | Alan | 11 | 27,254 | 0 | 7.86% xx
4 | Colour Sergeant Bourne | 10 | 19,913 | 2 | 7.14% xx
5 | Alan Browne | 5 | 10,876 | 1 | 3.57% x
6 | badgolferman | 5 | 14,627 | 0 | 3.57% x
7 | Jörg Lorenz | 5 | 8,780 | 0 | 3.57% x
8 | Chris | 4 | 19,602 | 0 | 2.86%
9 | Hank Rogers | 4 | 9,895 | 0 | 2.86%
10 | Oscar Mayer | 2 | 6,121 | 1 | 1.43%
11 | The Doctor | 1 | 13,093 | 1 | 0.71%
12 | Mickey D | 1 | 2,780 | 1 | 0.71%
13 | Chris Schram | 1 | 3,299 | 0 | 0.71%
14 | Percival John Hackworth | 1 | 2,614 | 0 | 0.71%
15 | Andy Burns | 1 | 2,528 | 0 | 0.71%
16 | John | 1 | 2,517 | 0 | 0.71%
17 | Your Name | 1 | 2,326 | 0 | 0.71%
18 | *Hemidactylus* | 1 | 2,163 | 0 | 0.71%
19 | Paul Goodman | 1 | 1,893 | 0 | 0.71%
20 | Creon | 1 | 1,777 | 0 | 0.71%
21 | Fishrrman | 1 | 1,636 | 0 | 0.71%
22 | gtr | 1 | 1,442 | 0 | 0.71%
23 | Bernd Froehlich | 1 | 1,374 | 0 | 0.71%
----|-------------------------|--------|---------|-----|------------------|

***** Users with most started threads *****
num| Name | or. | Nb Msg | size | %
----|-------------------------|-----|--------|---------|------------------|
1 | Andrew | 11 | 48 | 157,527 | 64.71%
xxxxxxxxxx
2 | Colour Sergeant Bourne | 2 | 10 | 19,913 | 11.76% x
3 | Alan Browne | 1 | 5 | 10,876 | 5.88%
4 | Oscar Mayer | 1 | 2 | 6,121 | 5.88%
5 | The Doctor | 1 | 1 | 13,093 | 5.88%
6 | Mickey D | 1 | 1 | 2,780 | 5.88%
----|-------------------------|-----|--------|---------|------------------|

***** Users with highest total size of messages *****
num| Name | size | Nb Msg | or. | %
----|-------------------------|---------|--------|-----|------------------|
1 | Andrew | 157,527 | 48 | 11 | 39.25%
xxxxxxxxxx
2 | Jolly Roger | 87,339 | 33 | 0 | 21.76% xxxxx
3 | Alan | 27,254 | 11 | 0 | 6.79% x
4 | Colour Sergeant Bourne | 19,913 | 10 | 2 | 4.96% x
5 | Chris | 19,602 | 4 | 0 | 4.88% x
6 | badgolferman | 14,627 | 5 | 0 | 3.64%
7 | The Doctor | 13,093 | 1 | 1 | 3.26%
8 | Alan Browne | 10,876 | 5 | 1 | 2.71%
9 | Hank Rogers | 9,895 | 4 | 0 | 2.47%
10 | Jörg Lorenz | 8,780 | 5 | 0 | 2.19%
11 | Oscar Mayer | 6,121 | 2 | 1 | 1.53%
12 | Chris Schram | 3,299 | 1 | 0 | 0.82%
13 | Mickey D | 2,780 | 1 | 1 | 0.69%
14 | Percival John Hackworth | 2,614 | 1 | 0 | 0.65%
15 | Andy Burns | 2,528 | 1 | 0 | 0.63%
16 | John | 2,517 | 1 | 0 | 0.63%
17 | Your Name | 2,326 | 1 | 0 | 0.58%
18 | *Hemidactylus* | 2,163 | 1 | 0 | 0.54%
19 | Paul Goodman | 1,893 | 1 | 0 | 0.47%
20 | Creon | 1,777 | 1 | 0 | 0.44%
21 | Fishrrman | 1,636 | 1 | 0 | 0.41%
22 | gtr | 1,442 | 1 | 0 | 0.36%
23 | Bernd Froehlich | 1,374 | 1 | 0 | 0.34%
----|-------------------------|---------|--------|-----|------------------|

***** Days with most messages *****
num| date | Nb Msg | size | or. | %
----|------------|--------|--------|-----|------------------|
1 | 5/14/2024 | 32 | 89,955 | 3 | 22.86% xxxxxxxxxx
2 | 5/24/2024 | 16 | 37,327 | 1 | 11.43% xxxxx
3 | 5/20/2024 | 15 | 57,283 | 1 | 10.71% xxxx
4 | 5/23/2024 | 13 | 33,072 | 1 | 9.29% xxxx
5 | 5/29/2024 | 10 | 22,078 | 1 | 7.14% xxx
6 | 5/15/2024 | 9 | 30,264 | 1 | 6.43% xx
7 | 5/13/2024 | 8 | 21,198 | 1 | 5.71% xx
8 | 5/21/2024 | 6 | 11,141 | 1 | 4.29% x
9 | 5/22/2024 | 5 | 13,163 | 0 | 3.57% x
10 | 5/1/2024 | 4 | 18,084 | 1 | 2.86% x
11 | 5/25/2024 | 4 | 8,123 | 0 | 2.86% x
12 | 5/12/2024 | 3 | 11,314 | 2 | 2.14%
13 | 5/9/2024 | 3 | 10,091 | 1 | 2.14%
14 | 5/30/2024 | 3 | 6,027 | 1 | 2.14%
15 | 5/17/2024 | 3 | 16,976 | 0 | 2.14%
16 | 5/11/2024 | 2 | 3,373 | 1 | 1.43%
17 | 5/31/2024 | 2 | 7,022 | 0 | 1.43%
18 | 5/28/2024 | 1 | 3,030 | 1 | 0.71%
19 | 5/26/2024 | 1 | 1,855 | 0 | 0.71%
----|------------|--------|--------|-----|------------------|

***** Days with most messages *****
num| date | Nb Msg | size | or. | %
----|------------|--------|---------|-----|------------------|
1 | Tuesday | 39 | 104,126 | 5 | 27.86% xxxxxxxxxx
2 | Wednesday | 28 | 83,589 | 3 | 20.00% xxxxxxx
3 | Monday | 23 | 78,481 | 2 | 16.43% xxxxx
4 | Friday | 21 | 61,325 | 1 | 15.00% xxxxx
5 | Thursday | 19 | 49,190 | 3 | 13.57% xxxx
6 | Saturday | 6 | 11,496 | 1 | 4.29% x
7 | Sunday | 4 | 13,169 | 2 | 2.86% x
----|------------|--------|---------|-----|------------------|

***** Subjects with most answers *****
num| Subject
| Nb Msg | size | or. | %
----|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------|---------|-----|------------------|
1 | To adults - very few on this newsgroup - like badgolferman - what
do you thi ... | 33 | 111,481 | 1 | 23.57% xxxxxxxxxx
2 | Jolly Roger: I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news
client instead. | 22 | 46,280 | 1 | 15.71% xxxxxx
3 | iMac Boot Issue
| 16 | 34,339 | 1 | 11.43% xxxx
4 | Re: Apple publicly apologizes for celebrating its destruction of
the human e ... | 10 | 28,660 | 1 | 7.14% xxx
5 | Transfer USB Time Machine Backup Drive to a New Mac
| 10 | 22,078 | 1 | 7.14% xxx
6 | Apple Addresses Critical Security Vulnerability For Windows 10
And 11 Users | 7 | 21,358 | 1 | 5.00% xx
7 | Re: Apple publicly apologizes for celebrating its destruction of
the human e ... | 7 | 17,912 | 1 | 5.00% xx
8 | New vulnerability in Apple's positioning service allows troop
movements to b ... | 5 | 13,049 | 1 | 3.57% x
9 | Yet again, Apple forgot to sufficiently test desktop & iOS
versions | 5 | 12,677 | 1 | 3.57% x
10 | Re: Apple publicly apologizes for celebrating its destruction of
the human e ... | 4 | 22,339 | 1 | 2.86% x
11 | Re: Why are iPhone videos clear when sent to iPhones but blurry
when sent to ... | 4 | 16,062 | 1 | 2.86% x
12 | Apple zero-day hole in MarketplaceKit tracks iOS users & the fix
breaks alte ... | 4 | 12,582 | 1 | 2.86% x
13 | Apple to specialize in AI inference chips for servers
| 3 | 10,091 | 1 | 2.14%
14 | Apple being shady in court again
| 3 | 5,075 | 1 | 2.14%
15 | Selling iMac
| 3 | 4,991 | 0 | 2.14%
16 | Apple clarifies iOS 17.5 bug that exposed deleted photos
| 2 | 6,279 | 1 | 1.43%
17 | stats 2024 April
| 1 | 13,093 | 1 | 0.71%
18 | Re: Surveillance Risk: Apple's WiFi-Based Positioning System
| 1 | 3,030 | 1 | 0.71%
----|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------|---------|-----|------------------|

***** Most used Newsreaders (distinct user) *****
num| Newsreader
| Util. | Nb Msg | %
----|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------|--------|------------------|
1 | Mozilla Thunderbird
| 4 | 27 | 14.29% xxxxxxxxxx
2 | NewsTap/5.5 (iPhone/iPod Touch)
| 3 | 9 | 10.71% xxxxxxx
3 | Usenapp for MacOS
| 3 | 3 | 10.71% xxxxxxx
4 | NewsTap/5.5 (iPad)
| 2 | 11 | 7.14% xxxxx
5 | slrn/1.0.3 (Darwin)
| 1 | 33 | 3.57% xx
6 | Mod.PiaoHong.Usenet.Client:2.02.M16
| 1 | 24 | 3.57% xx
7 | PiaoHong.Usenet.Client.Free:1.65
| 1 | 14 | 3.57% xx
8 | Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:115.0) Gecko/20100101
| 1 | 4 | 3.57% xx
9 | Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
| 1 | 3 | 3.57% xx
10 | Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:102.0)
Gecko/20100101 Thund ... | 1 | 2 | 3.57% xx
11 | MesNews/1.08.06.00-gb
| 1 | 1 | 3.57% xx
12 | MT-NewsWatcher/3.5.3b3 (Intel Mac OS X)
| 1 | 1 | 3.57% xx
13 | Pan/0.158 (Avdiivka; )
| 1 | 1 | 3.57% xx
14 | XanaNews/1.19.1.372 (x86; Portable ISpell)
| 1 | 1 | 3.57% xx
15 | Jane Bond Girl Of Next Millennium
| 1 | 1 | 3.57% xx
16 | Unison/2.2
| 1 | 1 | 3.57% xx
17 | Hogwasher/5.24
| 1 | 1 | 3.57% xx
18 | Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:115.0)
| 1 | 1 | 3.57% xx
19 | Pan/0.158 (Avdiivka; 9555b5e; Linux-6.9.1)
| 1 | 1 | 3.57% xx
20 | Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0)
| 1 | 1 | 3.57% xx
----|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------|--------|------------------|

I just got a new Mac.

My old File Vaulted Mac booted into the Lock Screen which showed my
FirstName LastName filled in as the (only) user and under that, a box to
enter my password.

After successfully setting up my new Mac, I tuned off. Later on
power-up, it booted into the Lock Screen which showed two empty boxes-—
the first requesting my username and the second my password.

I entered FirstName LastName for the username and then the correct
password. No go. I got the shaking password error and couldn’t login.
Retried several times, checking for caps lock key, tried a different
keyboard, etc. No joy.

So I went into the Change Password sequence, logging in easily with my
Apple ID and successfully changed the Mac password. On boot, still no
joy- couldn’t login.

Eventually I called tech support and an Apple Babe walked me through
changing the password again even though I told her I had already tried
that. She insisted I do it again and while doing so, I noticed that my
actual username was in fact firstnamelastname— no caps, no space.

I told her that and we abandoned the change password operation and
rebooted entering firstnamelastname as the username. All worked fine.
Login!

The root cause of the problem was when I set up Lock Screen in System
Settings-- selecting for "Login Window Shows": "Name and Password"
instead of "List of Users"-- the latter which pre-enters
firstnamelastname even though it shows FirstName LastName.

Live and learn....

--
There’s no problem so bad that you can’t make it worse.
- Astronaut Chris Hadfield

On 2024-06-01 19:06, Colour Sergeant Bourne wrote:
> I just got a new Mac.
>
> My old File Vaulted Mac booted into the Lock Screen which showed my
> FirstName LastName filled in as the (only) user and under that, a box to
> enter my password.
>
> After successfully setting up my new Mac, I tuned off. Later on
> power-up, it booted into the Lock Screen which showed two empty boxes-—
> the first requesting my username and the second my password.
>
> I entered FirstName LastName for the username and then the correct
> password. No go.  I got the shaking password error and couldn’t login.
> Retried several times, checking for caps lock key, tried a different
> keyboard, etc. No joy.
>
> So I went into the Change Password sequence, logging in easily with my
> Apple ID  and successfully changed the Mac password. On boot, still no
> joy- couldn’t login.
>
> Eventually I called tech support and an Apple Babe walked me through
> changing the password again even though I told her I had already tried
> that. She insisted I do it again and while doing so, I noticed that my
> actual username was in fact firstnamelastname— no caps, no space.
>
> I told her that and we abandoned the change password operation and
> rebooted  entering firstnamelastname as the username. All worked fine.
> Login!
>
> The root cause of the problem was when I set up Lock Screen in System
> Settings-- selecting for "Login Window Shows":  "Name and Password"
> instead of "List of Users"-- the latter which pre-enters
> firstnamelastname even though it shows FirstName LastName.
>
> Live and learn....

In some other context, though I enter everything first/last names, on
some Apple app it was always showing as last/first. This eventually
resolved after some OS updates. (Don't recall the app offhand).

--
Fore Score and Seven Years ago our Four Fathers fought a lot.
- some guy on the Internet in the 1860's

On 2024-06-07 22:01:30 +0000, Alan Browne said:

> On 2024-06-06 20:35, André G. Isaak wrote:
>> When I put my Mac to sleep for the night, all the external hard drives
>> spin up for a few minutes around once an hour or so which is irritating
>> me. The screen does not wake up. I was wondering if anyone had any
>> suggestions for how to prevent this.
>>
>> I'm running a 2020 Retina 5K iMac under macOS 12.6.7. In my Energy
>> Saver System Preferences, both 'enable power nap' and 'wake for network
>> access' are UNchecked. 'put hard disks to sleep when possible' is
>> checked.
>
> I wrote a program to (amongst other things) keep my external spinning
> disks awake during the day and then late in the evening it stops that
> until morning. Alas, something deep in the OS doesn't play fair.
> The program should be (like the Mac) not logging anything through the night.
>
> Recent log:
> 06-05::23:03:41 Stopped Keep Disk Awake Threads.
> 06-06::01:50 Cur Mem: 11264 Max Mem: 11264 1.000 MBi/hr
> 06-06::02:47 Cur Mem: 11264 Max Mem: 11264 0.000 MBi/hr
> 06-06::03:52 Cur Mem: 11264 Max Mem: 11264 0.000 MBi/hr
> 06-06::04:52 Cur Mem: 11264 Max Mem: 11264 0.000 MBi/hr
> 06-06::05:49 Cur Mem: 11264 Max Mem: 11264 0.000 MBi/hr
> 06-06::06:54 Cur Mem: 11264 Max Mem: 12288 0.000 MBi/hr
> 06-06::07:21 Cur Mem: 12288 Max Mem: 12288 1.000 MBi/hr
> 06-06::08:06:31 Started Keep Disk Awake Threads.
>
> Sometimes it will go the whole night w/o waking more than once or twice.
> (In the "daytime" that log hits 1/hour on the hour as designed).

There are all sorts of things MacOS does behind-the-scenes during
"idle" times, Spotlight indexing, Time Machine, update checking,
malware checking, etc. being just a few examples. Sleep mode doesn't
stop all those things happening. Other apps running will also have
things the do.

The simple solution, as someone else said, is to just shut the computer
down when you're not using it - there's zero reason for it to be
running 24-7, unless it's an internet server that others need to access
while you're asleep.

On 2024-06-11 00:48, Your Name wrote:

> I've never bothered with Time Machine either. It's methodology seems to
> be a ridiculous waste of drive space backing up mutiple versions of the
> same document. I don't use Versions either and always delete the old
> ones if using an app like Pages that insists on doing that silliness.

Following the initial backup, succeeding backups are differences only
(changed files and new files), so it's a very slow accumulation. Once
the backup volume is near full, oldest redundant backups are removed.

>
> I use CarbonCopyCloner to backup manually when I want to. The only
> problem with it it that it is quite slow at working out what to copy. If
> I've only changed a few documents, it still takes nearly an hour to
> trawl through the entire drive before copying just those few altered /
> new files. There was also a problem at one stage where it would hang
> during that phase of working out what to copy and eventually stop with
> an error, but updating to a slightly newer version seems to have fixed
> that.

Time Machine does not have this issue. Note you can install s/w that
will run TM at a reduced pace (you turn off automatic TM updates and let
the scheduler s/w invoke TM) - this also addresses your issue above to
some degree.

--
"It would be a measureless disaster if Russian barbarism overlaid
the culture and independence of the ancient States of Europe."
Winston Churchill

Jolly Roger wrote on 11 Jun 2024 16:41:18 GMT :

> Shut up and go play outside, little boy.

What you seem to hate is that Apple platforms are primitive & limited.
<https://i.postimg.cc/hjkVFyqJ/scrcpy07.jpg>

I find it revealing that Apple is about a decade behind everyone else in
terms of providing users basic functionality every other OS gives them.
<https://i.postimg.cc/k5gv0yw8/vysor34.jpg>

For example, with Android, every APK you've ever installed is saved.
Every app. Every version. By default. Automatically.

Even the entire home screen, with all the concomitant folder names and
locations and spacings, and the app shortcuts in those folders is saved.

With Apple platforms, you have to wade through a clusterfuck of primitive
iTunes' processes and even then you can't install an app that is no longer
on the app store.

Worse, for free apps, even if you backed up the IPA manually, you *still*
can't install that IPA onto any other device on the planet you want to.

What you seem to hate is how utterly primitive Apple's platforms are.