Chris wrote on Wed, 15 May 2024 14:55:58 -0000 (UTC) :

> Talk about completely whooshing the point. Do you even read?

Chris,

People like you are why I say the things I do about Apple zealots.
Badgolferman is an adult - he would never say the lies you just said.

I have one advantage over all of you religious zealots, and it precisely
that I'm not stupid - where I'm calling you out on your lies about support.
<https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>

>> FACT:
>> *Apple only fully supports one and only one major release*
>
> Not fact.

If you think Apple fully supports more than one release, Chris,
then it's you who didn't read any of the cites I provided, one of which is
from Apple which badgolferman read and quoted, which refutes your claim.

Since it _is_ fact, I posit you didn't understand the cite.

FACT:
Apple only fully supports one release and Apple clearly says that.
<https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>

> Apple can only fully support currently implemented architectures.
> The fact is Apple does update 17, 16 & 15 regularly.

Chris... there's no way you have a PhD if you can't comprehend that every
operating system vendor, including Apple, fixes egregious bugs in every
release, even releases a decade old - but that does not mean they fix every
bug they know of in that release - and - in fact - Apple specifically
states that they do NOT fix every bug they know of in any release but in
the latest release. That's just a fact, Chris.

The fact you can't comprehend facts is why I say what I say about you.
I've never met people as incomprehensible as you Chris in my entire life.

Only on this Apple newsgroup are people who can't comprehend facts.
Even facts that Apple publicly stated are facts.
<https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>

>
>> REFERENCES:
>> <https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/>
>> <https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>
>> <https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases>
>> <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/>
>
> That last arsetechnica article makes an invalid point in comparing two 5
> year old computers and claims the mac would have to be junked due to
> company policy due to to no more support. What it forgets is that companies
> have policies of refreshing hardware on a 3, 4, 5 year cycle anyway
> regardless of whether it's supported or not.

The fact remains that only Apple fully supports only one release, Chris.
That's just a fact.
<https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>

> A 5 year old PC will be on its knees as well.

That's a ridiculously absurd assessment Chris.

My desktop PC was built in 2009, Chris, and it kicks ass because it was
built by me with high end components of that day and age - and it has full
operating system support for all bugs that Microsoft knows about.

So you're wrong again.

People like you are why I say the things I do about Apple zealots.
Badgolferman is an adult - he would never say the lies you just said.

Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> Chris wrote on Wed, 15 May 2024 14:55:58 -0000 (UTC) :
>
>> Talk about completely whooshing the point. Do you even read?
>
> Chris,

Arlen - not sure why that nym of yours stuck?

You don't even respond to people's point. You just repeat the same verbal
diarrhoea on the same single narrow, boring thing.

>
> People like you are why I say the things I do about Apple zealots.
> Badgolferman is an adult - he would never say the lies you just said.
>
> I have one advantage over all of you religious zealots, and it precisely
> that I'm not stupid - where I'm calling you out on your lies about support.
> <https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>
>
>>> FACT:
>>> *Apple only fully supports one and only one major release*
>>
>> Not fact.
>
> If you think Apple fully supports more than one release, Chris,
> then it's you who didn't read any of the cites I provided, one of which is
> from Apple which badgolferman read and quoted, which refutes your claim.
>
> Since it _is_ fact, I posit you didn't understand the cite.

You're obsessing on the word "fully" which is open to interpretation as I
posted to badgolferman the other day.

Now, I do admit that Apple could be much more explicit by what it means
like Google and Samsung have done recently.

The *evidence* does remain that in the last year the three most recent ios
versions are updated constantly.

> FACT:
> Apple only fully supports one release and Apple clearly says that.
> <https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>
>
>> Apple can only fully support currently implemented architectures.
>> The fact is Apple does update 17, 16 & 15 regularly.
>
> Chris... there's no way you have a PhD if you can't comprehend that every
> operating system vendor, including Apple, fixes egregious bugs in every
> release, even releases a decade old - but that does not mean they fix every
> bug they know of in that release - and - in fact - Apple specifically
> states that they do NOT fix every bug they know of in any release but in
> the latest release. That's just a fact, Chris.

What we don't know is why? For example, not all win11 bugs will update in
win10 because they are different oses.

>> That last arsetechnica article makes an invalid point in comparing two 5
>> year old computers and claims the mac would have to be junked due to
>> company policy due to to no more support. What it forgets is that companies
>> have policies of refreshing hardware on a 3, 4, 5 year cycle anyway
>> regardless of whether it's supported or not.
>
> The fact remains that only Apple fully supports only one release, Chris.
> That's just a fact.
> <https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>
>
>> A 5 year old PC will be on its knees as well.
>
> That's a ridiculously absurd assessment Chris.
>
> My desktop PC was built in 2009, Chris, and it kicks ass because it was
> built by me with high end components of that day and age - and it has full
> operating system support for all bugs that Microsoft knows about.

Like every corporation allows their employers to build their own high spec
PC. lol, no.

In the real world, employees all get a std base spec laptop or mini PC.
They are shit and struggle to last more than a few years.

I have a small team of specialists and in the last couple of years 2 or 3
have had to have their HP laptops repaired or replaced.

> So you're wrong again.

Nope. You don't live in the same world as most.

Chris wrote on Fri, 17 May 2024 12:13:48 -0000 (UTC) :

> You don't even respond to people's point. You just repeat the same verbal
> diarrhoea on the same single narrow, boring thing.

Chris,

I'm logical. I based my assessments on documented facts.
Not Apple advertisements.

In fact, I did respond when you said Apple supports multiple releases.
I said that is a lie.

And I provided proof it is a lie.
The fact remains that only Apple fully supports only one release, Chris.

FACT:
*Apple fully supports only one major release on all is iOS & PC products*
<https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>

> You're obsessing on the word "fully" which is open to interpretation as I
> posted to badgolferman the other day.

Heh heh heh... and you wonder why I claim you zealots are what they are.
Every article explains the "fully" Chris. It's pretty simple you know.

Fully means that Apple patches EVERY SINGLE VULNERABILITY IT KNOWS ABOUT.

> Now, I do admit that Apple could be much more explicit by what it means
> like Google and Samsung have done recently.

Here I fully agree with you, Chris. Apple is clever. They want people to be
confused by that document, which, mind you, Apple was *forced* to publish.
<https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>

If you ask me where I found out that Apple was *forced* to publish it,
make sure you read these first before asking me why I say that happened.
<https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/>
<https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases>
<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/>

> The *evidence* does remain that in the last year the three most recent ios
> versions are updated constantly.

It's good that you're looking at facts, Chris, as I posit that most of the
Apple zealots only get their "news" about Apple from Apple's advertising.

And Apple is never going to advertise that Google said that much of the iOS
code could never have been tested at all, let alone the lack of coverage.

We discussed the fact that Apple doesn't sufficiently test their code, and
that it was proven many times that Apple _never_ tested much of the code.
(Remember the Facetime fiasco, for example?)

Since Apple's QA is atrocious (even Craig Federighi said so in leaked
internal emails, Chris - which we covered in the past) it's no wonder that
Apple always has more than 1.5 times the exploits that Android has.

The fact is you will never see Apple advertise the facts about its lack of
testing for iOS (remember the battery issues of years ago, Chris?).

Anyone who gets ALL their information about Apple ONLY from Apple
advertisements, is likely to be turned into a zealot over time because
everyone else who reads the news will tell them a truth they won't like.

>> every
>> operating system vendor, including Apple, fixes egregious bugs in every
>> release, even releases a decade old - but that does not mean they fix every
>> bug they know of in that release - and - in fact - Apple specifically
>> states that they do NOT fix every bug they know of in any release but in
>> the latest release. That's just a fact, Chris.
>
> What we don't know is why? For example, not all win11 bugs will update in
> win10 because they are different oses.

Unfortunately, you do not understand what it means to be fully patched.
Ask badgolferman. He is an adult. He understood the instant he read the
articles I had provided (which you show no evidence of having read).

Currently Windows 10 and Windows 11 are fully supported (AFAIK).
1. That means all known Microsoft-caused bugs in Win10 are patched.
2. That means all known Microsoft-caused bugs in Win11 are patched.
3. Often they're the same bugs and the same patch - but not always.

Mind you there can be Chrome-caused bugs in Windows also, such as this bug
I had dutifully reported to the Windows newsgroup a few days ago.

And there can be Apple-caused bugs in Windows also, such as this iTunes bug
I had reported to the Windows newsgroup a few days ago.
*Nasty zero-day in Chrome*
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=78997&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#78997>

*Apple Addresses Critical Security Vulnerability For Windows 10 & 11 Users*
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=79031&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#79031>

What I've noticed about the Apple zealots is that they don't understand how
Apple systems update, nor how other systems update, and yet they argue
endlessly based only on their knowledge coming from Apple marketing ads.

Also note that only on Apple newsgroups do zealots rise up to defend the
mothership to the death - but they don't understand anything about Apple.

They claim I only talk about Apple bugs, but I report bugs on all the
operating systems. The zealots are simply defending Apple to the death.

They only know Apple advertised that they're "safer" on Apple products.
Which is a lie.

>> My desktop PC was built in 2009, Chris, and it kicks ass because it was
>> built by me with high end components of that day and age - and it has full
>> operating system support for all bugs that Microsoft knows about.
>
> Like every corporation allows their employers to build their own high spec
> PC. lol, no.

When I was in the corporate world in the Silicon Valley, as a technical
kind of guy, I had RedHat and Windows desktops and laptops for my use.

They were replaced roughly about every two years, as I recall.
They even replaced my keyboard and mouse and monitors as frequently.

Even my desk and chair were changed around every few years.
But the corporate world is different than the home market Chris.

On my 2009 PC, I've replaced two RAM sticks (which had memory errors),
and I've swapped out the graphics card with my kid whom I bought a more
powerful card for, & I took his power supply since he needed a more
powerful power supply with a ton of connections his didn't at first have.

And that's about it for modifications since 2009 and it works fine for me.

Oh, and this is important when you compare with Apple's crappy support...

FACT:
Every single operating system upgrade since 2009 has been free and
better yet, every single one was fully supported and even better than
that, the current operating system is fully supported by Microsoft.

That's part of why I can assess that Apple support is the worst in the
industry, Chris - which is something that Apple never advertises.

So you need to get your news outside of Apple's brilliant advertising
as Apple's bugfix support is actually the worst in the industry, Chris.

Andrew wrote on Fri, 17 May 2024 16:15:49 -0000 (UTC) :

> In fact, I did respond when you said Apple supports multiple releases.
> I said that is a lie.

fully