On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just drop the
>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.  :-\
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>      Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>
>>>>>      Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>
>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>>>>
>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>
>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>
>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>
>
> Post the screenshots.

Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.

Or look up the numerous articles online that discuss the same thing.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2024-03-05 15:22, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just drop
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.  :-\
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>>>>>
>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>
>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>
>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>
>>
>> Post the screenshots.
>
> Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.
>
> Or look up the numerous articles online that discuss the same thing.
>

Sorry, but given how easy it would be to post screenshots and you
punking out on doing so...

....I'll take what you've claimed with a (large) grain of salt.

:-)

Am 06.03.24 um 00:22 schrieb Alan Browne:
> On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just drop the
>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.  :-\
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>>>>>
>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>
>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>
>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>
>>
>> Post the screenshots.
>
> Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.

A lot of claims and no proof: You are a Troll.

> Or look up the numerous articles online that discuss the same thing.

Idiot.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

Am 06.03.24 um 01:17 schrieb Alan:
> On 2024-03-05 15:22, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just drop
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.  :-\
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>>
>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Post the screenshots.
>>
>> Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.
>>
>> Or look up the numerous articles online that discuss the same thing.
>>
>
> Sorry, but given how easy it would be to post screenshots and you
> punking out on doing so...
>
> ...I'll take what you've claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>
> :-)

He is totally lacking credibility.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

On 2024-03-05 19:17, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-03-05 15:22, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just
>>>>>>> drop the
>>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.  :-\
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>>
>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Post the screenshots.
>>
>> Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.
>>
>> Or look up the numerous articles online that discuss the same thing.
>>
>
> Sorry, but given how easy it would be to post screenshots and you
> punking out on doing so...
>
> ...I'll take what you've claimed with a (large) grain of salt.

Imagine my consternation.

Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to see.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2024-03-06 04:07, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 06.03.24 um 00:22 schrieb Alan Browne:
>> On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just
>>>>>>> drop the
>>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.  :-\
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>>
>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Post the screenshots.
>>
>> Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.
>
> A lot of claims and no proof: You are a Troll.

Just the numbers I see. Do you have an Apple Silicon Mac?

>
>> Or look up the numerous articles online that discuss the same thing.
>
> Idiot.

Stop looking in the mirror - it's bad for your ego.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2024-03-06 14:14, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-05 19:17, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-03-05 15:22, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just
>>>>>>>> drop the
>>>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.
>>>>>>>> :-\
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>      Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>      Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load
>>>>> of apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds
>>>>> yours on this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Post the screenshots.
>>>
>>> Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.
>>>
>>> Or look up the numerous articles online that discuss the same thing.
>>>
>>
>> Sorry, but given how easy it would be to post screenshots and you
>> punking out on doing so...
>>
>> ...I'll take what you've claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>
> Imagine my consternation.
>
> Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to see.
>

The numbers are what you CLAIM to have seen...

....but won't show screenshots to corroborate.

On 2024-03-06 14:20, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-06 04:07, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 06.03.24 um 00:22 schrieb Alan Browne:
>>> On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just
>>>>>>>> drop the
>>>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.
>>>>>>>> :-\
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>       Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>       Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>>>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>>>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Post the screenshots.
>>>
>>> Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.
>>
>> A lot of claims and no proof: You are a Troll.
>
> Just the numbers I see.  Do you have an Apple Silicon Mac?

The numbers you CLAIM to have seen.

On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-03-06 14:14, Alan Browne wrote:
claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>>
>> Imagine my consternation.
>>
>> Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to see.
>>
>
> The numbers are what you CLAIM to have seen...
>
> ...but won't show screenshots to corroborate.

I have no obligation to do so.

What you can do is go get your self an Apple Si Mac and see for yourself.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-03-06 14:20, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2024-03-06 04:07, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Am 06.03.24 um 00:22 schrieb Alan Browne:
>>>> On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just
>>>>>>>>> drop the
>>>>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.
>>>>>>>>> :-\
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real
>>>>>>>> story.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>>>>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>>>>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Post the screenshots.
>>>>
>>>> Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.
>>>
>>> A lot of claims and no proof: You are a Troll.
>>
>> Just the numbers I see.  Do you have an Apple Silicon Mac?
>
> The numbers you CLAIM to have seen.

Numbers I'm seeing right now actually on this home Apple Si iMac.

I'm not much into proving anything to you. You're simply not important.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2024-03-07 14:16, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-03-06 14:14, Alan Browne wrote:
> claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>>>
>>> Imagine my consternation.
>>>
>>> Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to see.
>>>
>>
>> The numbers are what you CLAIM to have seen...
>>
>> ...but won't show screenshots to corroborate.
>
> I have no obligation to do so.

Good. You're bright enough to know that.

Are you bright enough to understand that the onus to support a claim is
on the one who MAKES the claim?

Or that when someone refuses to do something simple to support a claim...

....it makes others think he has something to hide?

<https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gBtTjBw9RZdogtopDdJjyYiMzO1-yPAK/view?usp=share_link>

On 2024-03-07 14:18, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-03-06 14:20, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-06 04:07, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> Am 06.03.24 um 00:22 schrieb Alan Browne:
>>>>> On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just
>>>>>>>>>> drop the
>>>>>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product
>>>>>>>>>> line. :-\
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>       Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>       Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real
>>>>>>>>> story.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>>>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>>>>>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>>>>>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Post the screenshots.
>>>>>
>>>>> Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.
>>>>
>>>> A lot of claims and no proof: You are a Troll.
>>>
>>> Just the numbers I see.  Do you have an Apple Silicon Mac?
>>
>> The numbers you CLAIM to have seen.
>
> Numbers I'm seeing right now actually on this home Apple Si iMac.

Which you will spend time writing about...

....rather than just post a couple of screenshots.

>
> I'm not much into proving anything to you.  You're simply not important.
>

You are certainly proving that by this reply.

:-)

On 2024-03-07 20:36, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-03-07 14:16, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-06 14:14, Alan Browne wrote:
>> claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>>>>
>>>> Imagine my consternation.
>>>>
>>>> Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to see.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The numbers are what you CLAIM to have seen...
>>>
>>> ...but won't show screenshots to corroborate.
>>
>> I have no obligation to do so.
>
> Good. You're bright enough to know that.
>
>
> Are you bright enough to understand that the onus to support a claim is
> on the one who MAKES the claim?

Or if one claims I'm wrong to show so themselves.

Do you own an Apple Silicon Mac? Then you can prove me wrong.

I have nothing to prove to you and I don't care if you don't believe me.
I have the numbers in front of me. And that's just the facts.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2024-03-07 20:37, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-03-07 14:18, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-06 14:20, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-06 04:07, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>> Am 06.03.24 um 00:22 schrieb Alan Browne:
>>>>>> On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>>>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just
>>>>>>>>>>> drop the
>>>>>>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product
>>>>>>>>>>> line. :-\
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>       Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>       Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real
>>>>>>>>>> story.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>>>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>>>>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same
>>>>>>>> load of
>>>>>>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds
>>>>>>>> yours on
>>>>>>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Post the screenshots.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.
>>>>>
>>>>> A lot of claims and no proof: You are a Troll.
>>>>
>>>> Just the numbers I see.  Do you have an Apple Silicon Mac?
>>>
>>> The numbers you CLAIM to have seen.
>>
>> Numbers I'm seeing right now actually on this home Apple Si iMac.
>
> Which you will spend time writing about...
>
> ...rather than just post a couple of screenshots.
>
>>
>> I'm not much into proving anything to you.  You're simply not important.
>>
>
> You are certainly proving that by this reply.

Yes, thanks for confirming you're not important. Unexpected humility
from you.

Now, do you own an Apple Si Mac or not?

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2024-03-08 13:45, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-07 20:36, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-03-07 14:16, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-06 14:14, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>>>>>
>>>>> Imagine my consternation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to see.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The numbers are what you CLAIM to have seen...
>>>>
>>>> ...but won't show screenshots to corroborate.
>>>
>>> I have no obligation to do so.
>>
>> Good. You're bright enough to know that.
>>
>>
>> Are you bright enough to understand that the onus to support a claim
>> is on the one who MAKES the claim?
>
> Or if one claims I'm wrong to show so themselves.

No... ...that's not the way it has ever worked.

>
> Do you own an Apple Silicon Mac?  Then you can prove me wrong.
>
> I have nothing to prove to you and I don't care if you don't believe me.
>  I have the numbers in front of me.  And that's just the facts.

If you actually had the numbers in front of you...

....and you were technically competent (maybe that's the problem)...

....it would be trivial to prove your claims.

But you don't.

On 2024-03-08 13:47, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-07 20:37, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-03-07 14:18, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-06 14:20, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-06 04:07, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>>> Am 06.03.24 um 00:22 schrieb Alan Browne:
>>>>>>> On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even
>>>>>>>>>>>> less
>>>>>>>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should
>>>>>>>>>>>> just drop the
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product
>>>>>>>>>>>> line. :-\
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>       Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>       Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real
>>>>>>>>>>> story.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>>>>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>>>>>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same
>>>>>>>>> load of
>>>>>>>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds
>>>>>>>>> yours on
>>>>>>>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Post the screenshots.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A lot of claims and no proof: You are a Troll.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just the numbers I see.  Do you have an Apple Silicon Mac?
>>>>
>>>> The numbers you CLAIM to have seen.
>>>
>>> Numbers I'm seeing right now actually on this home Apple Si iMac.
>>
>> Which you will spend time writing about...
>>
>> ...rather than just post a couple of screenshots.
>>
>>>
>>> I'm not much into proving anything to you.  You're simply not important.
>>>
>>
>> You are certainly proving that by this reply.
>
> Yes, thanks for confirming you're not important.  Unexpected humility
> from you.

You think THAT is what it confirms...

....you answering again?

LOL

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> writes:

> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-03-06 14:14, Alan Browne wrote:
> claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>>>
>>> Imagine my consternation.
>>>
>>> Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to see.
>>>
>> The numbers are what you CLAIM to have seen...
>> ...but won't show screenshots to corroborate.
>
> I have no obligation to do so.
>
> What you can do is go get your self an Apple Si Mac and see for yourself.

I myself would not find 8GB RAM to be enough. However, my wife finds it
to be quite usable on her M1 Macbook Air.

I do prefer more storage than 256GB, but my work MBPs have only had that
much the past several iterations and it's been fine. (I store most
things for work in cloud storage that my workplace provides.)

Theoretically, the tight coupling of CPU, GPU, RAM, and SSD on Apple
Silicon makes it less sensitive to limited amounts of RAM, but we're not
yet at the point where we have really fast persistent storage and can
thus have one big pool of memory/storage. Optane was getting closer to
that, but I think Intel did an "OS/2" (or maybe "PS/2") to it and it
withered on the vine.

My main home computer (the one I'm typing on now) is an M1 Mini with
16GB RAM and 512GB SSD. Would I like more RAM and storage? Yes. I'm ok
without it right now though, and it doesn't get in my way normally.

I'm not really happy with Macs no longer being upgradeable, nor with the
prices that Apple charges for (commodity) items like RAM and
storage. However, this Mini is a pretty amazing little box and I very
much like using it. I can forgive Apple's sins. :-)

I do question why, in 2024, Apple has such paltry amounts of RAM and
storage in their base model products. It doesn't seem fitting for a
premium product.

On 2024-03-08 19:40, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-03-08 13:45, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2024-03-07 20:36, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-07 14:16, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-06 14:14, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Imagine my consternation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to
>>>>>> see.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The numbers are what you CLAIM to have seen...
>>>>>
>>>>> ...but won't show screenshots to corroborate.
>>>>
>>>> I have no obligation to do so.
>>>
>>> Good. You're bright enough to know that.
>>>
>>>
>>> Are you bright enough to understand that the onus to support a claim
>>> is on the one who MAKES the claim?
>>
>> Or if one claims I'm wrong to show so themselves.
>
> No... ...that's not the way it has ever worked.
>
>>
>> Do you own an Apple Silicon Mac?  Then you can prove me wrong.
>>
>> I have nothing to prove to you and I don't care if you don't believe
>> me.   I have the numbers in front of me.  And that's just the facts.
>
> If you actually had the numbers in front of you...
>
> ...and you were technically competent (maybe that's the problem)...
>
> ...it would be trivial to prove your claims.
>
> But you don't.

I do. I put up the numbers. And that is sufficient. You see: I don't
have to "prove my claim" to you. If you don't believe what I wrote,
then that's entirely, 100%, your problem.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2024-03-09 07:49, Bud Frede wrote:
> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> writes:
>
>> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-06 14:14, Alan Browne wrote:
>> claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>>>>
>>>> Imagine my consternation.
>>>>
>>>> Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to see.
>>>>
>>> The numbers are what you CLAIM to have seen...
>>> ...but won't show screenshots to corroborate.
>>
>> I have no obligation to do so.
>>
>> What you can do is go get your self an Apple Si Mac and see for yourself.
>
> I myself would not find 8GB RAM to be enough. However, my wife finds it
> to be quite usable on her M1 Macbook Air.
>
> I do prefer more storage than 256GB, but my work MBPs have only had that
> much the past several iterations and it's been fine. (I store most
> things for work in cloud storage that my workplace provides.)
>
> Theoretically, the tight coupling of CPU, GPU, RAM, and SSD on Apple
> Silicon makes it less sensitive to limited amounts of RAM, but we're not

It's not all that fantastic as my experience in same setup v. memory
allocation shows.

Past architectures (lower end intel) already had GPU using main memory
on the order of 1 - 2 GB. Other devices used memory mapped IO to some
extent. Of course the current memory bandwidth is very high, so that is
good.

Apple Si "upped the ante" - but the hype from Apple hasn't stood testing.

> yet at the point where we have really fast persistent storage and can
> thus have one big pool of memory/storage. Optane was getting closer to
> that, but I think Intel did an "OS/2" (or maybe "PS/2") to it and it
> withered on the vine.

I fantasized about such back in the 80's ... one day perhaps.

> My main home computer (the one I'm typing on now) is an M1 Mini with
> 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD. Would I like more RAM and storage? Yes. I'm ok
> without it right now though, and it doesn't get in my way normally.

A client loaned me his M2 Mini for a while (reasons) and it had 16 GB
and I don't recall the SSD. Nice machine.

> I'm not really happy with Macs no longer being upgradeable, nor with the
> prices that Apple charges for (commodity) items like RAM and
> storage. However, this Mini is a pretty amazing little box and I very
> much like using it. I can forgive Apple's sins. :-)

Regrettably I'm all in on Apple for my personal use, and very much "in"
for business use. The latter is easier to bury the costs (esp. as a Mac
in the business will be useful for 10 years or more at some posts).

I don't protest so much the memory non-upgradeability of later Macs so
much, but the prices they charge are nuts. This iMac will likely be my
main personal computer for 10 years (given my past history) - so eat the
price.

Also, I bought the M3 with the max 24 GB of RAM. Would have preferred
at least 32, 42 (yes - that's a thing) or 48 GB.

2 TB of SSD should be OK for the long term - I also have 24 TB of
external online storage and 12 TB of rotated backup storage.

> I do question why, in 2024, Apple has such paltry amounts of RAM and
> storage in their base model products. It doesn't seem fitting for a
> premium product.

Because they are profit whores. The prices they charge for the
commodity memory (RAM and SSD) is outrageous.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> writes:

> On 2024-03-09 07:49, Bud Frede wrote:
>
>> I do question why, in 2024, Apple has such paltry amounts of RAM and
>> storage in their base model products. It doesn't seem fitting for a
>> premium product.
>
> Because they are profit whores. The prices they charge for the
> commodity memory (RAM and SSD) is outrageous.

My question was a bit rhetorical, but yeah, they bend their customers
over when it comes to RAM and storage.

On 2024-03-09 06:46, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-08 19:40, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-03-08 13:45, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-07 20:36, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-07 14:16, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-03-06 14:14, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>> claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Imagine my consternation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to
>>>>>>> see.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The numbers are what you CLAIM to have seen...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...but won't show screenshots to corroborate.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have no obligation to do so.
>>>>
>>>> Good. You're bright enough to know that.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Are you bright enough to understand that the onus to support a claim
>>>> is on the one who MAKES the claim?
>>>
>>> Or if one claims I'm wrong to show so themselves.
>>
>> No... ...that's not the way it has ever worked.
>>
>>>
>>> Do you own an Apple Silicon Mac?  Then you can prove me wrong.
>>>
>>> I have nothing to prove to you and I don't care if you don't believe
>>> me.   I have the numbers in front of me.  And that's just the facts.
>>
>> If you actually had the numbers in front of you...
>>
>> ...and you were technically competent (maybe that's the problem)...
>>
>> ...it would be trivial to prove your claims.
>>
>> But you don't.
>
> I do.  I put up the numbers.  And that is sufficient.  You see:  I don't
> have to "prove my claim" to you.  If you don't believe what I wrote,
> then that's entirely, 100%, your problem.
>

You writing numbers in a Usenet post is just a nothing, sunshine.

And you certainly don't HAVE to do anything...

....but we're all free to draw the conclusion that if your "numbers"
weren't all bullshit, you'd have simply posted a couple of screenshots
by now.

On 2024-03-09 07:27, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-09 07:49, Bud Frede wrote:
>> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-06 14:14, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>>>>>
>>>>> Imagine my consternation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to see.
>>>>>
>>>> The numbers are what you CLAIM to have seen...
>>>> ...but won't show screenshots to corroborate.
>>>
>>> I have no obligation to do so.
>>>
>>> What you can do is go get your self an Apple Si Mac and see for
>>> yourself.
>>
>> I myself would not find 8GB RAM to be enough. However, my wife finds it
>> to be quite usable on her M1 Macbook Air.
>>
>> I do prefer more storage than 256GB, but my work MBPs have only had that
>> much the past several iterations and it's been fine. (I store most
>> things for work in cloud storage that my workplace provides.)
>>
>> Theoretically, the tight coupling of CPU, GPU, RAM, and SSD on Apple
>> Silicon makes it less sensitive to limited amounts of RAM, but we're not
>
> It's not all that fantastic as my experience in same setup v. memory
> allocation shows.
>
> Past architectures (lower end intel) already had GPU using main memory
> on the order of 1 - 2 GB.  Other devices used memory mapped IO to some
> extent.  Of course the current memory bandwidth is very high, so that is
> good.
>
> Apple Si "upped the ante" - but the hype from Apple hasn't stood testing.

Testing you won't actually show...

On 2024-03-11 12:24, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-03-09 07:27, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2024-03-09 07:49, Bud Frede wrote:
>>> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-06 14:14, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Imagine my consternation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to
>>>>>> see.
>>>>>>
>>>>> The numbers are what you CLAIM to have seen...
>>>>> ...but won't show screenshots to corroborate.
>>>>
>>>> I have no obligation to do so.
>>>>
>>>> What you can do is go get your self an Apple Si Mac and see for
>>>> yourself.
>>>
>>> I myself would not find 8GB RAM to be enough. However, my wife finds it
>>> to be quite usable on her M1 Macbook Air.
>>>
>>> I do prefer more storage than 256GB, but my work MBPs have only had that
>>> much the past several iterations and it's been fine. (I store most
>>> things for work in cloud storage that my workplace provides.)
>>>
>>> Theoretically, the tight coupling of CPU, GPU, RAM, and SSD on Apple
>>> Silicon makes it less sensitive to limited amounts of RAM, but we're not
>>
>> It's not all that fantastic as my experience in same setup v. memory
>> allocation shows.
>>
>> Past architectures (lower end intel) already had GPU using main memory
>> on the order of 1 - 2 GB.  Other devices used memory mapped IO to some
>> extent.  Of course the current memory bandwidth is very high, so that
>> is good.
>>
>> Apple Si "upped the ante" - but the hype from Apple hasn't stood testing.
>
> Testing you won't actually show...

Yes or no: Do you have an Apple Si Mac?

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2024-03-11 14:53, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-11 12:24, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-03-09 07:27, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-09 07:49, Bud Frede wrote:
>>>> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-03-06 14:14, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>> claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Imagine my consternation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to
>>>>>>> see.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> The numbers are what you CLAIM to have seen...
>>>>>> ...but won't show screenshots to corroborate.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have no obligation to do so.
>>>>>
>>>>> What you can do is go get your self an Apple Si Mac and see for
>>>>> yourself.
>>>>
>>>> I myself would not find 8GB RAM to be enough. However, my wife finds it
>>>> to be quite usable on her M1 Macbook Air.
>>>>
>>>> I do prefer more storage than 256GB, but my work MBPs have only had
>>>> that
>>>> much the past several iterations and it's been fine. (I store most
>>>> things for work in cloud storage that my workplace provides.)
>>>>
>>>> Theoretically, the tight coupling of CPU, GPU, RAM, and SSD on Apple
>>>> Silicon makes it less sensitive to limited amounts of RAM, but we're
>>>> not
>>>
>>> It's not all that fantastic as my experience in same setup v. memory
>>> allocation shows.
>>>
>>> Past architectures (lower end intel) already had GPU using main
>>> memory on the order of 1 - 2 GB.  Other devices used memory mapped IO
>>> to some extent.  Of course the current memory bandwidth is very high,
>>> so that is good.
>>>
>>> Apple Si "upped the ante" - but the hype from Apple hasn't stood
>>> testing.
>>
>> Testing you won't actually show...
>
> Yes or no: Do you have an Apple Si Mac?
>

Yes or no: could you post screenshots of what you claim you have seen?

On 2024-03-11 18:50, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-03-11 14:53, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2024-03-11 12:24, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-09 07:27, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-09 07:49, Bud Frede wrote:
>>>>> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-03-06 14:14, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>> claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Imagine my consternation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain
>>>>>>>> to see.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The numbers are what you CLAIM to have seen...
>>>>>>> ...but won't show screenshots to corroborate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have no obligation to do so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What you can do is go get your self an Apple Si Mac and see for
>>>>>> yourself.
>>>>>
>>>>> I myself would not find 8GB RAM to be enough. However, my wife
>>>>> finds it
>>>>> to be quite usable on her M1 Macbook Air.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do prefer more storage than 256GB, but my work MBPs have only had
>>>>> that
>>>>> much the past several iterations and it's been fine. (I store most
>>>>> things for work in cloud storage that my workplace provides.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Theoretically, the tight coupling of CPU, GPU, RAM, and SSD on Apple
>>>>> Silicon makes it less sensitive to limited amounts of RAM, but
>>>>> we're not
>>>>
>>>> It's not all that fantastic as my experience in same setup v. memory
>>>> allocation shows.
>>>>
>>>> Past architectures (lower end intel) already had GPU using main
>>>> memory on the order of 1 - 2 GB.  Other devices used memory mapped
>>>> IO to some extent.  Of course the current memory bandwidth is very
>>>> high, so that is good.
>>>>
>>>> Apple Si "upped the ante" - but the hype from Apple hasn't stood
>>>> testing.
>>>
>>> Testing you won't actually show...
>>
>> Yes or no: Do you have an Apple Si Mac?
>>
>
> Yes or no: could you post screenshots of what you claim you have seen?

I guess you don't.

I could post the screen shots. Certainly. Am I obliged?

No. Because: Get over yourself.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.