Tom Elam wrote on Mon, 30 Sep 2024 13:51:56 -0400 :

> REALLY? Can you support that with facts, not unsupported words. Your
> words are total bullshit. I'll bet you don't read a word of what follows.
>
> Here are some facts:
>
> https://techinspection.net/iphone-vs-android-battery-life/
>
> Quotes:
>
> "Battery Capacity
>
> The battery capacity, measured in milliamp hours (mAh), gives a basic
> indicator of how much juice a phone's battery can hold. However,
> optimization plays a huge role in translating that raw capacity into
> real-world usage.
>
> Recent iPhone models have packed in these mAh capacities:
>
> iPhone 14 Pro Max: 4,323 mAh
> iPhone 14 Plus: 4,325 mAh
> iPhone 14: 3,279 mAh
> For Android, flagship capacities include:
>
> Samsung Galaxy S22 Ultra: 5,000 mAh
> Google Pixel 7 Pro: 5,000 mAh
> OnePlus 10T: 4,800 mAh
>
> On paper, higher-end Android phones edge out iPhones on battery
> capacities. The iPhone 14 Pro Max packs fairly large batteries given its
> more compact size. However, Apple's custom silicon helps enable power
> efficiency that closes the usage gap despite lower mAh ratings. Still,
> Android makers continue pushing the envelope on sheer battery size to
> enable marathon usage times."
>
> "Real-World Battery Life Tests
>
> Lab tests of battery life provide useful comparisons between iPhones and
> Android phones under controlled conditions. Reviewers like PhoneBuff run
> battery rundown tests for different use cases. In a web browsing test
> over 5G networks, the iPhone 14 Pro Max lasted actively for 11 hours 28
> minutes, and on standby for 16 hours making it a total of 27 hours 38
> minutes. On the other hand, Galaxy S22 Ultra was active for 9 hours 16
> minutes, and on standby for 16 hours, making it a total of 25 hours 16
> minutes. Clearly, real-world testing indicates iPhones have an advantage
> for typical daily use, thanks to the platform's power efficiency along
> with battery capacity. However, results can vary depending on the
> individual models tested in each phone generation."
>
> Other tests show iPhones and Android about the same.
>
> Here's the clincher:
>
> "Battery Life Over Time
>
> How well a smartphone battery holds up and maintains its charging
> capacity over an extended period is an important consideration for
> long-term owners.
>
> Overall, iPhones tend to experience less severe battery degradation than
> typical Android phones after 12-24 months of use. Reports indicate most
> recent iPhone models still have around 80-85% of their original capacity
> after two years. Though there is no way to determine battery health on
> Android, but using 3rd party apps like AccuBattery, it has been seen
> that many Android phones dip below 70% capacity by the same point as
> repeated fast charging takes a toll.
>
> However, Android variety means experiences vary. Since there are
> numerous brands, ways to check battery health on Android also varies.
> Since Android 13, Google started to offer battery health count from
> settings. Although smartphone brands are offering quality batteries,
> after a couple of years things like less battery backup and battery
> swelling happen in Android. On the other hand, there is no record of
> iPhone battery swelling.
>
> This happens because of the extra fast charging facility. Fast charging
> the phone every day has an adverse effect on the battery. Currently,
> brands offering 65-watt, 85-watt, and even 120-watt adapters on Android
> have a high chance of battery damage. iPhones on the other hand are
> quite careful with their charging accessories. That's why they don't
> offer anything extra other than suitable charging power."

You have never read the news, Tom Elam, am I correct?
(You only read Apple's (rather brilliant) advertising, right Tom?)

The fact is the EU told Apple to STOP SELLING el cheap iPhones, Tom Elam.
That's *every* iPhone below the iPhone 15, Tom Elam.

Look it up.

All iPhones miserably failed the EU's *MINIMUM* standards for battery life!
Even the iPhones that passed, *barely* meet EU minimum-life standards.

While some Android phones *DOUBLED* the EU's minimum battery standards!
Think about that.

In addition...

See my response to Jolly Roger where, using simple numbers, if you have a
batter that lasts for an entire week on one charge, but if that battery has
a 5 charge cycle rating, then it won't last more than a few months, Tom.

Apple marketing is genius at advertising only half the picture, where
Apple's admirable number of hours on one charge is only one metric.

What you have to look at is Apple's atrocious number of charge cycles
before that battery is considered dead as a doorknob - unchargeable.

To put it bluntly, the main reason the iPhone has the most replaced battery
of all phones in that price range is Apple uses el cheapo battery design.

The EU was so appalled at the extremely short lifetime of Apple batteries,
that the EU recently *forced* Apple to disclose the number of charge
cycles, and the EU forbid Apple to sell every iPhone below the iPHone 15 as
a result of the astoundingly low number of iPhone battery charge cycles.

Look it up as we discussed this topic in great detail only a short while
ago.

You'd be hard pressed to find worse batteries than those in the iPhone.
At least in that price range - there are multiple batteries in Android
phones that last TWICE the charge cycles as the el cheapo iPhones do.

Look that up since charge cycles are the major second-order determinant of
overall battery life, with initial capacity being the first-order
determinant, and the overall daily life being a third-order determinant.

Sorry if this simple math is too much for you brainwashed Apple zealots.

And sorry if the EU directly forced Apple to never again sell a new iPhone
lower than the iPhone 15 because they *all* failed the EU lifetime test.

The fact is Apple batteries must follow the same laws of physics as other
batteries, and the fact is the Apple batteries are of an el cheapo design.

Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
>
> The fact is Apple batteries must follow the same laws of physics as other
> batteries, and the fact is the Apple batteries are of an el cheapo design.
>

It’s been exactly two years since I got my iPhone 14. The maximum battery
capacity is now at 86%. The phone still lasts an entire day despite all the
online backgammon that I play. I don’t know if that’s good or bad, but it’s
certainly better than previous iPhones I’ve had.

badgolferman wrote on Mon, 30 Sep 2024 22:27:14 -0000 (UTC) :

>> The fact is Apple batteries must follow the same laws of physics as other
>> batteries, and the fact is the Apple batteries are of an el cheapo design.
>>
>
> It's been exactly two years since I got my iPhone 14. The maximum battery
> capacity is now at 86%. The phone still lasts an entire day despite all the
> online backgammon that I play. I don't know if that's good or bad, but it's
> certainly better than previous iPhones I've had.

Hi badgolferman,

Remember I got the free Androids and iPHones from T-Mobile (as you did),
about three and one-half years ago, right? (April 2021).

And while my 5 Amp Hour battery on my free Android is still going strong,
I'm sure what you say is correct, so I believe you, a priori, BECAUSE you
act in good faith, with sincere honest goals, sans hypocrisy or mendacity.

As a result of your straightforwardness, I speak with you quite differently
than I speak with the unscrupulous zealots, whom I have to be explicitly
black and white with - because they're so incredibly deceitful people.

The fact is The iPhone 14 is NOT on the EU listing of acceptable phones by
overall long-term battery life. The iPhone 15 is. As is the iPhone 16.

You can make whatever you want of that information, but Apple sure isn't
advertising that they had to increase the battery (and change the charge
cycle calculation) in order to meet MINIMUM EU battery-life standards.

By battery life I'm not talking about hours per day (which is meaningless);
but in years, which is something the dishonest zealots can't understand.

The point to the zealots is that Apple barely meets the battery longevity
standards (which measures to the 80% loss in 500 charge cycles metric).

Any phone not meeting those *minimum* EU standards can't be sold, which,
let's be frank, is almost every iPhone out there that Apple has ever sold.

Don't you wonder *WHY* Apple increased the capacity suddenly?
No?

You gotta realize cheap crappy batteries is all part of Apple's strategy.
They only increased battery capacity to the minimum because they had to.

Think of the bad press when word gets out Apple iPhones have such crappy
batteries that they can't be sold in the EU while Android easily can be.

All the Android phones at that price range not only meet the EU's minimum,
but some exceed that minimum battery lifetime by more than double the
charge cycles.

The simple math these Apple zealots can't understand is that a battery that
lasts for a week but which is dead in 5 charge cycles won't last a year.

The zealots only know what Apple advertises, and Apple never advertises
that it has the lowest lifetime of all phone batteries in its class.

That was my main point.

The primary determinant of battery life is charge capacity.
The secondary determinant of battery life is charge cycles to 80%.
And a tertiary determinant is the almost meaningless daily life.

You can understand that concept, I hope.
The ignorant deceitful duplicitous Apple zealots will never get it.

They can't fathom that Apple iPhones don't meet minimum standards.

On 2024-09-30 15:27, badgolferman wrote:
> Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
>>
>> The fact is Apple batteries must follow the same laws of physics as other
>> batteries, and the fact is the Apple batteries are of an el cheapo design.
>>
>
> It’s been exactly two years since I got my iPhone 14. The maximum battery
> capacity is now at 86%. The phone still lasts an entire day despite all the
> online backgammon that I play. I don’t know if that’s good or bad, but it’s
> certainly better than previous iPhones I’ve had.
>

Why don't you ask Arlen/Andrew where these EU standards are that Apple
supposedly failed?

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
> On 2024-09-30 15:27, badgolferman wrote:
>> Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> The fact is Apple batteries must follow the same laws of physics as other
>>> batteries, and the fact is the Apple batteries are of an el cheapo design.
>>>
>>
>> It’s been exactly two years since I got my iPhone 14. The maximum battery
>> capacity is now at 86%. The phone still lasts an entire day despite all the
>> online backgammon that I play. I don’t know if that’s good or bad, but it’s
>> certainly better than previous iPhones I’ve had.
>>
>
> Why don't you ask Arlen/Andrew where these EU standards are that Apple
> supposedly failed?
>

I’m not interested in being your mouthpiece. If you want to know something
ask him yourself.

On 2024-10-01 11:56, badgolferman wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>> On 2024-09-30 15:27, badgolferman wrote:
>>> Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The fact is Apple batteries must follow the same laws of physics as other
>>>> batteries, and the fact is the Apple batteries are of an el cheapo design.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It’s been exactly two years since I got my iPhone 14. The maximum battery
>>> capacity is now at 86%. The phone still lasts an entire day despite all the
>>> online backgammon that I play. I don’t know if that’s good or bad, but it’s
>>> certainly better than previous iPhones I’ve had.
>>>
>>
>> Why don't you ask Arlen/Andrew where these EU standards are that Apple
>> supposedly failed?
>>
>
> I’m not interested in being your mouthpiece. If you want to know something
> ask him yourself.
>

You're not interest in what's true in what he says and what's not?

Predictable.

badgolferman wrote on Tue, 1 Oct 2024 18:56:05 -0000 (UTC) :

> If you want to know something ask him yourself.

Even better, since we have entire threads on this topic,
"If you want to know something, look it up yourself".

It can't possibly be that difficult for the Apple zealots to be so dumb
that they can't even look up the well-publicized-for-years EU standards.

You know what's kind'a funny, badgolferman...
They dispute everything that they don't understand; which is everything.

It's no longer shocking how they're twins of the trumpists out there.

On 2024-10-01 16:03, Andrew wrote:
> badgolferman wrote on Tue, 1 Oct 2024 18:56:05 -0000 (UTC) :
>
>>  If you want to know something ask him yourself.
>
> Even better, since we have entire threads on this topic, "If you want to
> know something, look it up yourself".
>
> It can't possibly be that difficult for the Apple zealots to be so dumb
> that they can't even look up the well-publicized-for-years EU standards.

I'll say it plainly for all the rational people:

There is not EU standard that bans any particular SIZE of battery.

There is a standard not yet in force that will mandate REPLACEABLE
batteries, and that is going to be a problem for MANY smartphone makers.

Do you get it yet, BGM?

On 2024-10-01, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
> On 2024-10-01 11:56, badgolferman wrote:
>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>> On 2024-09-30 15:27, badgolferman wrote:
>>>> Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The fact is Apple batteries must follow the same laws of physics
>>>>> as other batteries, and the fact is the Apple batteries are of an
>>>>> el cheapo design.
>>>>
>>>> It’s been exactly two years since I got my iPhone 14. The maximum
>>>> battery capacity is now at 86%. The phone still lasts an entire day
>>>> despite all the online backgammon that I play. I don’t know if
>>>> that’s good or bad, but it’s certainly better than previous iPhones
>>>> I’ve had.
>>>
>>> Why don't you ask Arlen/Andrew where these EU standards are that
>>> Apple supposedly failed?
>>
>> I’m not interested in being your mouthpiece. If you want to know
>> something ask him yourself.
>
> You're not interest in what's true in what he says and what's not?
>
> Predictable.

He enjoys Arlen's juvenile trolls. You'll note he virtually never
questions them.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 10/1/24 6:19 PM, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-10-01 16:03, Andrew wrote:
>> badgolferman wrote on Tue, 1 Oct 2024 18:56:05 -0000 (UTC) :
>>
>>>  If you want to know something ask him yourself.
>>
>> Even better, since we have entire threads on this topic, "If you want
>> to know something, look it up yourself".
>>
>> It can't possibly be that difficult for the Apple zealots to be so dumb
>> that they can't even look up the well-publicized-for-years EU standards.
>
> I'll say it plainly for all the rational people:
>
> There is not EU standard that bans any particular SIZE of battery.
>
> There is a standard not yet in force that will mandate REPLACEABLE
> batteries, and that is going to be a problem for MANY smartphone makers.
>
> Do you get it yet, BGM?O

Of course not.....

Jolly Roger wrote on 2 Oct 2024 04:49:01 GMT :

> You'll note he virtually never questions them.

Only you Apple zealots dispute facts that are well publicized.

Such as the fact that Apple's iPhones have smaller batteries than most
Androids of similar size & price range. Far smaller batteries, in fact.

You religious zealots *hate* that fact so you find all sorts of ways to
make lame excuses for the pitifully small laughably tiny iPhone batteries.

Why not just say, "Yeah, Apple iPhone batteries sure are small", but you
can't bring yourself to say that because it's a religious thing with you.

RocketSurgeon wrote on Wed, 2 Oct 2024 10:59:50 -0700 :

>> Do you get it yet, BGM?O
>
> Of course not.....

You do realize that Apple publicized that the only phones that met the EU
standards are the iPhone 15 (and now, the iPhone 16), don't you?

The fact that you don't know what is widely publicized so everyone know is,
is one thing about you religious zealots.

But the fact you also dispute it without even bothering to look it up, is
what sets you strange Apple zealots off from how a normal person would act.

*You zealots dispute everything you don't know; which is everything.*

Worse...

*You zealots dispute everything you don't like; which is everything.*

On 2024-10-02 13:25, Andrew wrote:
> RocketSurgeon wrote on Wed, 2 Oct 2024 10:59:50 -0700 :
>
>>> Do you get it yet, BGM?O
>>
>> Of course not.....
>
> You do realize that Apple publicized that the only phones that met the EU
> standards are the iPhone 15 (and now, the iPhone 16), don't you?

Have they? Really?

Then implicitly, you should have no trouble showing us that.

On 2024-10-02, Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> Jolly Roger wrote on 2 Oct 2024 04:49:01 GMT :
>
>> You'll note he virtually never questions them.
>
> Only you Apple zealots dispute facts that are well publicized.

Only Arlen and badgolferman think repeated unsubstantiated lies are
"facts that are well publicized".

> Such as the fact that Apple's iPhones have smaller batteries than most
> Androids of similar size & price range. Far smaller batteries, in fact.

Little Arlen here desperately wants everyone to ignore the fact that
iPhones have battery run times that are in the top 10:

<https://www.tomsguide.com/us/smartphones-best-battery-life,review-2857.html>
---
Asus ROG Phone 8 Pro: 18:48
OnePlus 12R: 18:42
iPhone 16 Pro Max: 18:06
Asus Zenfone 11 Ultra: 17:52
OnePlus 12: 17:41
Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra: 16:45
Samsung Galaxy S24 Plus: 16:32
iPhone 16 Plus: 16:29
Motorola Edge Plus (2023): 15:47
Moto G Stylus 5G (2024): 15:01
---

Instead, Arlen wants everyone to focus on the relatively meaningless
metric of battery size. Unfortunately for little Arlen, what most normal
people care about is runtime. In fact, it can be argued that increased
battery sizes weigh more, and normal people definitely care about weight
as well. 😉

> You religious zealots

Projection from a religious anti-Apple zealot.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

Jolly Roger wrote on 2 Oct 2024 22:46:06 GMT :

> Only you Apple zealots dispute facts that are well publicized.
>
> Only Arlen and badgolferman think repeated unsubstantiated lies are
> "facts that are well publicized".

Why not just say, "Yeah, Apple iPhone batteries sure are puny"?
You can't bring yourself to say that because it's a religious thing.

Not only can't you accept simple facts everyone knows, but you spend
endless hours *disputing* what is simply a well-known fact about iPhones.

The fact is, iPhone batteries *are* puny.

>> Such as the fact that Apple's iPhones have smaller batteries than most
>> Androids of similar size & price range. Far smaller batteries, in fact.
>
> iPhones have battery run times that are in the top 10.

If there are any adults reading this response, do you see how these strange
religious zealots fixate on completely meaningless metrics in order to not
simply say "Yeah, Apple iPhone batteries sure are puny"?

To prove why their metric is almost meaningless, I already gave an example
prior showing the initial battery capacity and charge cycles matters more.

But I could give other illustrative examples which prove that the length of
time a battery lasts on the first day is almost meaningless in terms of how
long the battery will last over time.

Let's take a comparison of a Lithium Iron Phosphate battery such as the
Franklin home batteries to a Tesla 3 powerwall standard Lithium-ion
battery.

What's the life of the Franklin battery compared to that of the Tesla?
Decades longer, right.

And yet, they both power the same amount on the first day of use.

That's just an example, but the point is these zealots dispute everything
they don't like about Apple products - which is pretty much everything.

This fixation the Apple religious zealots have with marketing metrics
instead of scientific metrics is part of why they're so very strange.

> Instead, Arlen wants everyone to focus on the relatively meaningless
> metric of battery size.

After years of saying the same thing, you *still* can't understand that
size isn't what I focus on - but overall battery lifetime.

Why do you think the EU forced Apple to upgrade their batteries JR?

Apple couldn't afford the word to get out that there wasn't a single iPhone
in the world that met even the bar minimum standard for overall lifetime.

> what most normal people care about is runtime.

The EU spec that *all* iPhone batteries failed, JR, was overall lifetime.

The iPhone 15 battery increase barely made the EU lifetime spec, JR.

Meanwhile most Androids *double* the minimum EU lifetime spec, JR.
*You zealots dispute everything you don't know; which is everything.*

On 2024-10-03, Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> Jolly Roger wrote on 2 Oct 2024 22:46:06 GMT :
>
>> Only you Apple zealots dispute facts that are well publicized.
>>
>> Only Arlen and badgolferman think repeated unsubstantiated lies are
>> "facts that are well publicized".
>
> Why not just say, "Yeah, Apple iPhone batteries sure are puny"?

Why not just admit that iPhones are routinely in the top ten smartphones
with the longest runtime between charges?

You can't bring yourself to say that because it's a religious thing.

> you spend endless hours *disputing*

Projection from a troll who literally spends every hour of every day
trolling the Apple newsgroups.

> The fact is, iPhone batteries *are* puny.

The fact is iPhones are in the top ten smartphones with the longest
run times between charges - which is the metric most people actually
care about, The fact that you are obsessed with battery size over run
time shows you are trolling.

[remainder of trollish bullshit rightfully ignored]

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

Jolly Roger wrote on 3 Oct 2024 15:42:19 GMT :

>> Why not just say, "Yeah, Apple iPhone batteries sure are puny"?
>
> Why not just admit that iPhones are routinely in the top ten smartphones
> with the longest runtime between charges?
>
> You can't bring yourself to say that because it's a religious thing.

Heh heh heh... I never once said otherwise, Jolly Roger.

Remember you called badgolferman a liar in this thread.

Well YOU are the liar.

>
>> The fact is, iPhone batteries *are* puny.
>
> The fact is iPhones are in the top ten smartphones with the longest
> run times between charges - which is the metric most people actually
> care about...

Actually most people care about other things, like the emoijis and the
video quality and the color of teh iPhone case, etc.

But the fact remains no iPhone prior to the iPhone 15 meets EU bare minimum
specs for overall lifetime, and even the 15 and 16 with their larger
batteries *barely* meet the EU spec for lifetime use - while most Androids
in that price range more than *double* the EU spec for minimum lifetime.

Look it up. We had an entire long thread on this only about a month ago.

*You zealots dispute everything you don't know; which is everything.*

On 2024-10-03, Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> Jolly Roger wrote on 3 Oct 2024 15:42:19 GMT :
>
>>> Why not just say, "Yeah, Apple iPhone batteries sure are puny"?
>>
>> Why not just admit that iPhones are routinely in the top ten
>> smartphones with the longest runtime between charges?
>>
>> You can't bring yourself to say that because it's a religious thing.
>
> Heh heh heh... I never once said otherwise, Jolly Roger.

Heh heh heh... And I never said anything about battery size, but that's
not stopping you from claiming it's the only thing that matters, which
is false.

> Well YOU are the liar.

More projection from a compulsive lying troll.

>>> The fact is, iPhone batteries *are* puny.
>>
>> The fact is iPhones are in the top ten smartphones with the longest
>> run times between charges - which is the metric most people actually
>> care about...
>
> Actually most people care about other things, like the emoijis and the
> video quality and the color of teh iPhone case, etc.

You're so desperate that you're trying to talk about anything BUT
batteries now. 🤡

No, when it comes to smartphone batteries, most people care about
runtime.

> *You zealots dispute everything you don't know; which is everything.*

The only zealot here is you.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 9/30/2024 5:00 PM, Andrew wrote:
> Tom Elam wrote on Mon, 30 Sep 2024 13:51:56 -0400 :
>
>> REALLY? Can you support that with facts, not unsupported words. Your
>> words are total bullshit. I'll bet you don't read a word of what follows.
>>
>> Here are some facts:
>>
>> https://techinspection.net/iphone-vs-android-battery-life/
>>
>> Quotes:
>>
>> "Battery Capacity
>>
>> The battery capacity, measured in milliamp hours (mAh), gives a basic
>> indicator of how much juice a phone's battery can hold. However,
>> optimization plays a huge role in translating that raw capacity into
>> real-world usage.
>>
>> Recent iPhone models have packed in these mAh capacities:
>>
>> iPhone 14 Pro Max: 4,323 mAh
>> iPhone 14 Plus: 4,325 mAh
>> iPhone 14: 3,279 mAh
>> For Android, flagship capacities include:
>>
>> Samsung Galaxy S22 Ultra: 5,000 mAh
>> Google Pixel 7 Pro: 5,000 mAh
>> OnePlus 10T: 4,800 mAh
>>
>> On paper, higher-end Android phones edge out iPhones on battery
>> capacities. The iPhone 14 Pro Max packs fairly large batteries given
>> its more compact size. However, Apple's custom silicon helps enable
>> power efficiency that closes the usage gap despite lower mAh ratings.
>> Still, Android makers continue pushing the envelope on sheer battery
>> size to enable marathon usage times."
>>
>> "Real-World Battery Life Tests
>>
>> Lab tests of battery life provide useful comparisons between iPhones
>> and Android phones under controlled conditions. Reviewers like
>> PhoneBuff run battery rundown tests for different use cases. In a web
>> browsing test over 5G networks, the iPhone 14 Pro Max lasted actively
>> for 11 hours 28 minutes, and on standby for 16 hours making it a total
>> of 27 hours 38 minutes. On the other hand, Galaxy S22 Ultra was active
>> for 9 hours 16 minutes, and on standby for 16 hours, making it a total
>> of 25 hours 16 minutes. Clearly, real-world testing indicates iPhones
>> have an advantage for typical daily use, thanks to the platform's
>> power efficiency along with battery capacity. However, results can
>> vary depending on the individual models tested in each phone generation."
>>
>> Other tests show iPhones and Android about the same.
>>
>> Here's the clincher:
>>
>> "Battery Life Over Time
>>
>> How well a smartphone battery holds up and maintains its charging
>> capacity over an extended period is an important consideration for
>> long-term owners.
>>
>> Overall, iPhones tend to experience less severe battery degradation
>> than typical Android phones after 12-24 months of use. Reports
>> indicate most recent iPhone models still have around 80-85% of their
>> original capacity after two years. Though there is no way to determine
>> battery health on Android, but using 3rd party apps like AccuBattery,
>> it has been seen that many Android phones dip below 70% capacity by
>> the same point as repeated fast charging takes a toll.
>>
>> However, Android variety means experiences vary. Since there are
>> numerous brands, ways to check battery health on Android also varies.
>> Since Android 13, Google started to offer battery health count from
>> settings. Although smartphone brands are offering quality batteries,
>> after a couple of years things like less battery backup and battery
>> swelling happen in Android. On the other hand, there is no record of
>> iPhone battery swelling.
>>
>> This happens because of the extra fast charging facility. Fast
>> charging the phone every day has an adverse effect on the battery.
>> Currently, brands offering 65-watt, 85-watt, and even 120-watt
>> adapters on Android have a high chance of battery damage. iPhones on
>> the other hand are quite careful with their charging accessories.
>> That's why they don't offer anything extra other than suitable
>> charging power."
>
> You have never read the news, Tom Elam, am I correct?
> (You only read Apple's (rather brilliant) advertising, right Tom?)
>
> The fact is the EU told Apple to STOP SELLING el cheap iPhones, Tom Elam.
> That's *every* iPhone below the iPhone 15, Tom Elam.
>
> Look it up.
>
> All iPhones miserably failed the EU's *MINIMUM* standards for battery life!
> Even the iPhones that passed, *barely* meet EU minimum-life standards.
>
> While some Android phones *DOUBLED* the EU's minimum battery standards!
> Think about that.
>
> In addition...
> See my response to Jolly Roger where, using simple numbers, if you have a
> batter that lasts for an entire week on one charge, but if that battery has
> a 5 charge cycle rating, then it won't last more than a few months, Tom.
>
> Apple marketing is genius at advertising only half the picture, where
> Apple's admirable number of hours on one charge is only one metric.
>
> What you have to look at is Apple's atrocious number of charge cycles
> before that battery is considered dead as a doorknob - unchargeable.
>
> To put it bluntly, the main reason the iPhone has the most replaced battery
> of all phones in that price range is Apple uses el cheapo battery design.
>
> The EU was so appalled at the extremely short lifetime of Apple batteries,
> that the EU recently *forced* Apple to disclose the number of charge
> cycles, and the EU forbid Apple to sell every iPhone below the iPHone 15 as
> a result of the astoundingly low number of iPhone battery charge cycles.
>
> Look it up as we discussed this topic in great detail only a short while
> ago.
> You'd be hard pressed to find worse batteries than those in the iPhone.
> At least in that price range - there are multiple batteries in Android
> phones that last TWICE the charge cycles as the el cheapo iPhones do.
>
> Look that up since charge cycles are the major second-order determinant of
> overall battery life, with initial capacity being the first-order
> determinant, and the overall daily life being a third-order determinant.
>
> Sorry if this simple math is too much for you brainwashed Apple zealots.
>
> And sorry if the EU directly forced Apple to never again sell a new iPhone
> lower than the iPhone 15 because they *all* failed the EU lifetime test.
>
> The fact is Apple batteries must follow the same laws of physics as other
> batteries, and the fact is the Apple batteries are of an el cheapo design.

So I tried to look up the EU banning sales of iPhones older than the 14
version. Can't find anything. What I did find was the regulation that
forced USB C charge port effective with the iPhone 15.

Please supply the reference to banning sales of iPhone 14 and prior.

On 2024-11-15 08:17, Tom Elam wrote:
> On 9/30/2024 5:00 PM, Andrew wrote:
>> Tom Elam wrote on Mon, 30 Sep 2024 13:51:56 -0400 :
>>
>>> REALLY? Can you support that with facts, not unsupported words. Your
>>> words are total bullshit. I'll bet you don't read a word of what
>>> follows.
>>>
>>> Here are some facts:
>>>
>>> https://techinspection.net/iphone-vs-android-battery-life/
>>>
>>> Quotes:
>>>
>>> "Battery Capacity
>>>
>>> The battery capacity, measured in milliamp hours (mAh), gives a basic
>>> indicator of how much juice a phone's battery can hold. However,
>>> optimization plays a huge role in translating that raw capacity into
>>> real-world usage.
>>>
>>> Recent iPhone models have packed in these mAh capacities:
>>>
>>> iPhone 14 Pro Max: 4,323 mAh
>>> iPhone 14 Plus: 4,325 mAh
>>> iPhone 14: 3,279 mAh
>>> For Android, flagship capacities include:
>>>
>>> Samsung Galaxy S22 Ultra: 5,000 mAh
>>> Google Pixel 7 Pro: 5,000 mAh
>>> OnePlus 10T: 4,800 mAh
>>>
>>> On paper, higher-end Android phones edge out iPhones on battery
>>> capacities. The iPhone 14 Pro Max packs fairly large batteries given
>>> its more compact size. However, Apple's custom silicon helps enable
>>> power efficiency that closes the usage gap despite lower mAh ratings.
>>> Still, Android makers continue pushing the envelope on sheer battery
>>> size to enable marathon usage times."
>>>
>>> "Real-World Battery Life Tests
>>>
>>> Lab tests of battery life provide useful comparisons between iPhones
>>> and Android phones under controlled conditions. Reviewers like
>>> PhoneBuff run battery rundown tests for different use cases. In a web
>>> browsing test over 5G networks, the iPhone 14 Pro Max lasted actively
>>> for 11 hours 28 minutes, and on standby for 16 hours making it a
>>> total of 27 hours 38 minutes. On the other hand, Galaxy S22 Ultra was
>>> active for 9 hours 16 minutes, and on standby for 16 hours, making it
>>> a total of 25 hours 16 minutes. Clearly, real-world testing indicates
>>> iPhones have an advantage for typical daily use, thanks to the
>>> platform's power efficiency along with battery capacity. However,
>>> results can vary depending on the individual models tested in each
>>> phone generation."
>>>
>>> Other tests show iPhones and Android about the same.
>>>
>>> Here's the clincher:
>>>
>>> "Battery Life Over Time
>>>
>>> How well a smartphone battery holds up and maintains its charging
>>> capacity over an extended period is an important consideration for
>>> long-term owners.
>>>
>>> Overall, iPhones tend to experience less severe battery degradation
>>> than typical Android phones after 12-24 months of use. Reports
>>> indicate most recent iPhone models still have around 80-85% of their
>>> original capacity after two years. Though there is no way to
>>> determine battery health on Android, but using 3rd party apps like
>>> AccuBattery, it has been seen that many Android phones dip below 70%
>>> capacity by the same point as repeated fast charging takes a toll.
>>>
>>> However, Android variety means experiences vary. Since there are
>>> numerous brands, ways to check battery health on Android also varies.
>>> Since Android 13, Google started to offer battery health count from
>>> settings. Although smartphone brands are offering quality batteries,
>>> after a couple of years things like less battery backup and battery
>>> swelling happen in Android. On the other hand, there is no record of
>>> iPhone battery swelling.
>>>
>>> This happens because of the extra fast charging facility. Fast
>>> charging the phone every day has an adverse effect on the battery.
>>> Currently, brands offering 65-watt, 85-watt, and even 120-watt
>>> adapters on Android have a high chance of battery damage. iPhones on
>>> the other hand are quite careful with their charging accessories.
>>> That's why they don't offer anything extra other than suitable
>>> charging power."
>>
>> You have never read the news, Tom Elam, am I correct?
>> (You only read Apple's (rather brilliant) advertising, right Tom?)
>>
>> The fact is the EU told Apple to STOP SELLING el cheap iPhones, Tom Elam.
>> That's *every* iPhone below the iPhone 15, Tom Elam.
>>
>> Look it up.
>>
>> All iPhones miserably failed the EU's *MINIMUM* standards for battery
>> life!
>> Even the iPhones that passed, *barely* meet EU minimum-life standards.
>>
>> While some Android phones *DOUBLED* the EU's minimum battery standards!
>> Think about that.
>>
>> In addition...
>> See my response to Jolly Roger where, using simple numbers, if you have a
>> batter that lasts for an entire week on one charge, but if that
>> battery has
>> a 5 charge cycle rating, then it won't last more than a few months, Tom.
>>
>> Apple marketing is genius at advertising only half the picture, where
>> Apple's admirable number of hours on one charge is only one metric.
>>
>> What you have to look at is Apple's atrocious number of charge cycles
>> before that battery is considered dead as a doorknob - unchargeable.
>>
>> To put it bluntly, the main reason the iPhone has the most replaced
>> battery
>> of all phones in that price range is Apple uses el cheapo battery design.
>>
>> The EU was so appalled at the extremely short lifetime of Apple
>> batteries,
>> that the EU recently *forced* Apple to disclose the number of charge
>> cycles, and the EU forbid Apple to sell every iPhone below the iPHone
>> 15 as
>> a result of the astoundingly low number of iPhone battery charge cycles.
>>
>> Look it up as we discussed this topic in great detail only a short while
>> ago.
>> You'd be hard pressed to find worse batteries than those in the iPhone.
>> At least in that price range - there are multiple batteries in Android
>> phones that last TWICE the charge cycles as the el cheapo iPhones do.
>>
>> Look that up since charge cycles are the major second-order
>> determinant of
>> overall battery life, with initial capacity being the first-order
>> determinant, and the overall daily life being a third-order determinant.
>>
>> Sorry if this simple math is too much for you brainwashed Apple zealots.
>>
>> And sorry if the EU directly forced Apple to never again sell a new
>> iPhone
>> lower than the iPhone 15 because they *all* failed the EU lifetime test.
>>
>> The fact is Apple batteries must follow the same laws of physics as other
>> batteries, and the fact is the Apple batteries are of an el cheapo
>> design.
>
> So I tried to look up the EU banning sales of iPhones older than the 14
> version. Can't find anything. What I did find was the regulation that
> forced USB C charge port effective with the iPhone 15.
>
> Please supply the reference to banning sales of iPhone 14 and prior.

Expect Arlen to actually support his bullshit?

Good luck with that.

Tom Elam wrote on Fri, 15 Nov 2024 11:17:37 -0500 :

>> And sorry if the EU directly forced Apple to never again sell a new iPhone
>> lower than the iPhone 15 because they *all* failed the EU lifetime test.
>>
>> The fact is Apple batteries must follow the same laws of physics as other
>> batteries, and the fact is the Apple batteries are of an el cheapo design.
>
> So I tried to look up the EU banning sales of iPhones older than the 14
> version. Can't find anything. What I did find was the regulation that
> forced USB C charge port effective with the iPhone 15.
>
> Please supply the reference to banning sales of iPhone 14 and prior.

It's no longer shocking you Apple trolls know nothing about anything.

You can't even look up what both Apple & the EU published - and - what
we've talked about already on in-depth threads on this very newsgroup!

Notwithstanding the fact that none of you Apple trolls could possibly have
earned even a college degree because you can't find what *everyone* knows.

Apple *published* the figures for Christ's sake. And the EU rules are also
*published* so again you Apple trolls prove to be ignorant of everything.

To make it ever more obvious that you Apple trolls ignorantly deny
everything about Apple you don't like (which is pretty much everything)...

We even had entire threads on this very topic - which you trolls forgot!

Even if I gave you Apple trolls the links for the umpteenth time, you Apple
trolls have shown you never click on the cites. And if I force you to click
on the cites, you Apple trolls never can understand what the cites says.

Suffice to say everyone on the planet except you Apple trolls is well aware
of the EU rules on the lifetime of batteries which absolutely no Apple
iPhone meets except the iPhone 15 and up (because Apple had to meet them!).

Worse... it's a fact that those very few Apple iPhones which meet the EU's
minimum battery life requirements *barely* meet them (which again shows
Apple's propensity for the absolute minimum required by law for customers).

Apple's own published words show clearly no iPhone below the iPhone 15
meets the EU's requirements for battery life - and yet - *plenty* of
Android phones exceed the EU's minimum battery life by more than double!

It's no longer shocking you Apple trolls know nothing about anything.

The fact is the iPhone battery capacity is crap. And it always was crap.
Apple gives you loyal morons the shittiest components they can possibly do.

And you *love* Apple for that. You'll stand in long lines outside the Apple
store because you can't wait to get *rid* of your old iPhone in tradein!

One good reason for that is Apple put crappy batteries in all iPhones.
That's just a fact. The capacity is crap compared to that of most Androids.

And capacity is the single most important determinant of battery longevity.
Which is why the EU rules forbid iPhones older than the 15 from being sold.

On 2024-11-15 10:04, Andrews wrote:
> Tom Elam wrote on Fri, 15 Nov 2024 11:17:37 -0500 :
>
>>> And sorry if the EU directly forced Apple to never again sell a new iPhone
>>> lower than the iPhone 15 because they *all* failed the EU lifetime test.
>>>
>>> The fact is Apple batteries must follow the same laws of physics as other
>>> batteries, and the fact is the Apple batteries are of an el cheapo design.
>>
>> So I tried to look up the EU banning sales of iPhones older than the 14
>> version. Can't find anything. What I did find was the regulation that
>> forced USB C charge port effective with the iPhone 15.
>>
>> Please supply the reference to banning sales of iPhone 14 and prior.

Did I not nail it?

:-)

>
> It's no longer shocking you Apple trolls know nothing about anything.
>
> You can't even look up what both Apple & the EU published - and - what
> we've talked about already on in-depth threads on this very newsgroup!
>
> Notwithstanding the fact that none of you Apple trolls could possibly have
> earned even a college degree because you can't find what *everyone* knows.
>
> Apple *published* the figures for Christ's sake. And the EU rules are also
> *published* so again you Apple trolls prove to be ignorant of everything.
>
> To make it ever more obvious that you Apple trolls ignorantly deny
> everything about Apple you don't like (which is pretty much everything)...
>
> We even had entire threads on this very topic - which you trolls forgot!
>
> Even if I gave you Apple trolls the links for the umpteenth time, you Apple
> trolls have shown you never click on the cites. And if I force you to click
> on the cites, you Apple trolls never can understand what the cites says.
>
> Suffice to say everyone on the planet except you Apple trolls is well aware
> of the EU rules on the lifetime of batteries which absolutely no Apple
> iPhone meets except the iPhone 15 and up (because Apple had to meet them!).
>
> Worse... it's a fact that those very few Apple iPhones which meet the EU's
> minimum battery life requirements *barely* meet them (which again shows
> Apple's propensity for the absolute minimum required by law for customers).
>
> Apple's own published words show clearly no iPhone below the iPhone 15
> meets the EU's requirements for battery life - and yet - *plenty* of
> Android phones exceed the EU's minimum battery life by more than double!
>
> It's no longer shocking you Apple trolls know nothing about anything.
>
> The fact is the iPhone battery capacity is crap. And it always was crap.
> Apple gives you loyal morons the shittiest components they can possibly do.
>
> And you *love* Apple for that. You'll stand in long lines outside the Apple
> store because you can't wait to get *rid* of your old iPhone in tradein!
>
> One good reason for that is Apple put crappy batteries in all iPhones.
> That's just a fact. The capacity is crap compared to that of most Androids.
>
> And capacity is the single most important determinant of battery longevity.
> Which is why the EU rules forbid iPhones older than the 15 from being sold.

On 11/15/24 1:04 PM, Andrews wrote:
> ...
> Worse... it's a fact that those very few Apple iPhones which meet the EU's
> minimum battery life requirements *barely* meet them (which again shows
> Apple's propensity for the absolute minimum required by law for customers).

And these EU regulators had independent & objective criteria for setting
this standard, which was done double-blind to how products performed ...

....right?

-hh

-hh wrote on Fri, 15 Nov 2024 15:55:12 -0500 :

>> Worse... it's a fact that those very few Apple iPhones which meet the EU's
>> minimum battery life requirements *barely* meet them (which again shows
>> Apple's propensity for the absolute minimum required by law for customers).
>
> And these EU regulators had independent & objective criteria for setting
> this standard, which was done double-blind to how products performed ...
>
> ...right?

The EU specified battery lifetime rules which applied equally to Android
and to Apple phones - where all known Android phones surpassed those
minimum lifetime rules - and yet - the iPhone 15 failed initially - but
Apple literally changed their test standard - and then it passed.

Fancy that.

Note we discussed this ad infinitum on this very newsgroup, so I'm not
telling you anything which isn't already in this newsgroup's archives.

Only *after* Apple tweaked the testing procedure did the iPhone 15 pass.
Nonetheless, it passed. But barely.

Meanwhile, almost all Androids (if not all Samsung/Google phones, which are
the vast majority) passed with flying colors - some exceeding TWICE the
lifetime (while Apple iPhones, even the latest, barely meet the standard).

The reason is trivially simple to comprehend.
Apple puts crappy batteries (in terms of capacity) in iPhones.

That's just a fact.
The only people disputing that fact are the ignorant Apple trolls.

And yet - they are completely ignorant of *everything* about Apple.
They don't even know about the EU standards & Apple's test proc changes.

*Who is /that/ stupid?*

As I've had to explain to the actual adults on this child-like Apple
newsgroup, you have to treat these Apple trolls like kindergarteners.

They can't find links to Usenet threads that they themselves were on.
Jesus Christ - *who is _that_ stupid?*

We already discussed this many times. With links to Apple's own public
reports saying only the iPhone 15 (and up) meets these new EU standards.

Not only do none of the Apple trolls (Jolly Roger, Alan Baker, Alan Browne,
Chris, Haemactylus, Joerg Lorenz, et al.) know anything about Apple, but
they don't know anything about anything. Sheeesh. Who is *that* stupid?

None could possibly have earned even a college BA with their low IQs.
They can't look up publicly *published* information for Christs sake.

They simply deny everything they don't know - which - is everything!

Like mentally handicapped IQ 40 people, you can spoon feed the Apple trolls
entire threads containing many references to the reports - and they can't
click on the links (they'll say a reference is just a link - nothing more).

*Who is _that_ stupid?*

You can point them to many threads they already participated on, replete
with links published by Apple & the EU and the news articles - and still -
these ignorant low IQ Apple trolls will claim it's just a Usenet thread.

Again and again, you have to ask: *Who is that incredibly stupid?*
The Apple trolls don't even remember we discussed this many times!

Each of these threads has plenty of links to the public references.
And yet - the Apple trolls are completely ignorant of it - and everything.

Mon, 15 Jul 2024
*EU mandating OEMs certify their batteries perform for 800 cycles or face consequences*
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=15882&group=misc.phone.mobile.iphone#15882>

Fri, 12 Jul 2024
*Laughably puny cheap iPhone batteries rumored to get slightly better with iPhone 16 due to EU regulations*
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=15838&group=misc.phone.mobile.iphone#15838>

Sun, 28 Jul 2024
*If you own an iPhone X or older - you should throw it over the next bridge*
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=16350&group=misc.phone.mobile.iphone#16350>

Mon, 15 Jul 2024
*Why are ignorant low-IQ uneducated zealots always the last to know everything?*
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=15881&group=misc.phone.mobile.iphone#15881>

Note: The ignornt uneducated low-IQ Apple trolls always claim a
bibliography doesn't contain any useful data (to them), so I'm already
warning the adults they'll say "those are just Usenet threads" even though
those threads not only provide plenty of reference cites, but the Apple
trolls who claim to know nothing about these facts are on those threads.

Who is that stupid?

In my whole life, I've never met, in the flesh, people that stupid as Jolly
Roger, Alan Baker, Alan Browne, Chris, Haemactylus, Joerg Lorenz, et al.

--
Fri, 15 Nov 2024
*iFixit iPhone 16 Pro teardown*
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=17764&group=misc.phone.mobile.iphone#17764>

On 2024-11-15 13:20, Andrews wrote:
> -hh wrote on Fri, 15 Nov 2024 15:55:12 -0500 :
>
>>> Worse... it's a fact that those very few Apple iPhones which
>>> meet the EU's minimum battery life requirements *barely* meet
>>> them (which again shows Apple's propensity for the absolute
>>> minimum required by law for customers).
>>
>> And these EU regulators had independent & objective criteria for
>> setting this standard, which was done double-blind to how products
>> performed ...
>>
>> ...right?

Breaking some of this down...

>
> The EU specified battery lifetime rules which applied equally to
> Android and to Apple phones

Probably true... ...but unsupported.

> - where all known Android phones
> surpassed those minimum lifetime rules

This is an unsupported assertion, and not a fact...

....from the man who claims he only states facts.

- and yet - the iPhone 15
> failed initially

This is an unsupported assertion, and not a fact...

....from the man who claims he only states facts.

> - but Apple literally changed their test standard -
> and then it passed.

This is an unsupported assertion, and not a fact...

....from the man who claims he only states facts.

>
> Fancy that.
>
> Note we discussed this ad infinitum on this very newsgroup, so I'm
> not telling you anything which isn't already in this newsgroup's
> archives.

Show an example.

>
> Only *after* Apple tweaked the testing procedure did the iPhone 15
> pass. Nonetheless, it passed. But barely.

This is actually two unsupported assertions, and not a fact...

....from the man who claims he only states facts.

>
> Meanwhile, almost all Androids (if not all Samsung/Google phones,
> which are the vast majority) passed with flying colors - some
> exceeding TWICE the lifetime (while Apple iPhones, even the latest,
> barely meet the standard).

This is an unsupported assertion, and not a fact...

....from the man who claims he only states facts.

>
> The reason is trivially simple to comprehend. Apple puts crappy
> batteries (in terms of capacity) in iPhones.

This is an unsupported assertion, and not a fact...

....from the man who claims he only states facts.

> That's just a fact. The only people disputing that fact are the
> ignorant Apple trolls.

You need to learn the difference between "assertion" and "fact".