John Hill wrote on Fri, 1 Nov 2024 08:01:46 -0000 (UTC) :

> You will never get trolls to buy in; otherwise they wouldn't be trolls.

You are correct that the Apple trolls like Alan Baker, Joerg Lorenz, Chris,
Alan Browne, Jolly Roger, Hemidactylus, nospam, Lewis, et al., will always
defend Apple to the death, no matter the truth - because... hmmm.. Why?

They'll always make inane excuses for why Apple has more zero-day exploits,
or why Apple didn't have call recording, or why Apple doesn't allow
interoperability, or why Apple products don't have basic hardware, or why
Apple always is chintzy on basics such as RAM & battery capacity, etc.

Why do the Apple trolls inundate this newsgroup with those inane apologies?

I know why.
Do you?

HINT: Message-ID: <vg2vg8$2huv$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=17514&group=misc.phone.mobile.iphone#17514>

On 11/1/2024 12:42 PM, Andrews wrote:
> John Hill wrote on Fri, 1 Nov 2024 08:01:46 -0000 (UTC) :
>
>> You will never get trolls to buy in; otherwise they wouldn't be trolls.
>
> You are correct that the Apple trolls like Alan Baker, Joerg Lorenz, Chris,
> Alan Browne, Jolly Roger, Hemidactylus, nospam, Lewis, et al., will always
> defend Apple to the death, no matter the truth - because... hmmm.. Why?
>
> They'll always make inane excuses for why Apple has more zero-day exploits,
> or why Apple didn't have call recording, or why Apple doesn't allow
> interoperability, or why Apple products don't have basic hardware, or why
> Apple always is chintzy on basics such as RAM & battery capacity, etc.
>
> Why do the Apple trolls inundate this newsgroup with those inane apologies?
>
> I know why.
> Do you?
>
> HINT: Message-ID: <vg2vg8$2huv$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
> <https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=17514&group=misc.phone.mobile.iphone#17514>

But Android owners upgrade phones more often than iPhone owners.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/it-s-official-android-phone-owners-upgrade-more-often-than-iphone-users/ar-AA1seZ2t?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=acd4d3617ea848eb984eda2761425876&ei=28

Explain that

On 11/2/2024 1:27 PM, Tom Elam wrote:

<snip>

> But Android owners upgrade phones more often than iPhone owners.
>
> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/it-s-official-android-phone-
> owners-upgrade-more-often-than-iphone-users/ar-AA1seZ2t?
> ocid=entnewsntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=acd4d3617ea848eb984eda2761425876&ei=28
>
> Explain that

Here are some reasons that I can postulate:

1. Android device makers tend to introduce new features at a more rapid
pace than Apple does for the iPhone. Apple meters out new features
slowly to encourage updates but many of those features are not
sufficiently attractive to warrant an upgrade.

2. Apple removes features from their devices causing many iPhone owners
to delay upgrades because they don't want to lose features.
a)What are the best selling iPhones of all time? The 6/6+ and
6s/6s+, the last two models that had a headphone jack.

b) A lot of U.S. iPhone users have stuck with the 13/13 Pro because
they don't want to lose the physical SIM card slot.

3. iPhones are more expensive than comparable Android phones so the
Android owner is more willing to spend the money on an upgrade.

4. Battery replacement on iPhones is relatively inexpensive and widely
available and you get a recently manufactured battery, not NOS (new old
stock) that has deteriorated.

5. iPhone users care less about features like higher-quality music
playback while Android users want the latest aptX or LDAC codec. Since
Airpods don't support these codec anyway, there's no reason to worry
about the phone having that codec.

6. Carriers offer better upgrade deals on Android devices than iOS
devices. You can often get a "free" Android phone, even on prepaid
carriers, while iPhones have subsidy but much lower.

On 02.11.24 18:37, sms wrote:
> On 11/2/2024 1:27 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> But Android owners upgrade phones more often than iPhone owners.
>>
>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/it-s-official-android-phone-
>> owners-upgrade-more-often-than-iphone-users/ar-AA1seZ2t?
>> ocid=entnewsntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=acd4d3617ea848eb984eda2761425876&ei=28
>>
>> Explain that
>
> Here are some reasons that I can postulate:

(Crap snipped)

You are a speculating idiot and Troll not delivering the smallest piece
of evidence for anything.

--
"De gustibus non est disputandum."

Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
> On 02.11.24 18:37, sms wrote:
>> On 11/2/2024 1:27 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> But Android owners upgrade phones more often than iPhone owners.
>>>
>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/it-s-official-android-phone-
>>> owners-upgrade-more-often-than-iphone-users/ar-AA1seZ2t?
>>> ocid=entnewsntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=acd4d3617ea848eb984eda2761425876&ei=28
>>>
>>> Explain that
>>
>> Here are some reasons that I can postulate:
>
> (Crap snipped)
>
> You are a speculating idiot and Troll not delivering the smallest piece
> of evidence for anything.
>
+1

*Hemidactylus* wrote on Sun, 03 Nov 2024 02:26:32 +0000 :

>>> Here are some reasons that I can postulate:

What I find interesting is how the Apple trolls like Hemidactylus, Joerg,
Alan Baker, Alan Browne, Chris, Jolly Roger, et. al are *desperate* to find
something (anything!) they can say is better on an iPhone than Android.

These Apple trolls scour the Internet to find something to be proud of.
Why?

Because their ego is wrapped up in their choice of paying through the nose.
They need to justify horrendous costs of Apple products (& lack of value).

So what do they pick to justify that they "belong" to a crowd of people who
willingly pay twice what the iPhone is actually worth & then hold on to it?

This...
*It's official: Android phone owners upgrade more often than iPhone users*
<https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/it-s-official-android-phone-owners-upgrade-more-often-than-iphone-users/>

Which is based on this...
*iPhone Owners Hold on to Their Phones Longer than Android Owners*
<https://cirpapple.substack.com/p/iphone-owners-hold-on-to-their-phones>

HINT: If I paid twice what an iPhone was worth & got half the value, I'd
not want to buy another one all that soon either - so I'm with you guys.

On 11/2/2024 6:37 PM, sms wrote:
> On 11/2/2024 1:27 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> But Android owners upgrade phones more often than iPhone owners.
>>
>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/it-s-official-android-phone-
>> owners-upgrade-more-often-than-iphone-users/ar-AA1seZ2t?
>> ocid=entnewsntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=acd4d3617ea848eb984eda2761425876&ei=28
>>
>> Explain that
>
> Here are some reasons that I can postulate:
>
> 1. Android device makers tend to introduce new features at a more rapid
> pace than Apple does for the iPhone. Apple meters out new features
> slowly to encourage updates but many of those features are not
> sufficiently attractive to warrant an upgrade.
>
> 2. Apple removes features from their devices causing many iPhone owners
> to delay upgrades because they don't want to lose features.
>    a)What are the best selling iPhones of all time? The 6/6+ and
> 6s/6s+, the last two models that had a headphone jack.
>
>    b) A lot of U.S. iPhone users have stuck with the 13/13 Pro because
> they don't want to lose the physical SIM card slot.
>
> 3. iPhones are more expensive than comparable Android phones so the
> Android owner is more willing to spend the money on an upgrade.
>
> 4. Battery replacement on iPhones is relatively inexpensive and widely
> available and you get a recently manufactured battery, not NOS (new old
> stock) that has deteriorated.
>
> 5. iPhone users care less about features like higher-quality music
> playback while Android users want the latest aptX or LDAC codec. Since
> Airpods don't support these codec anyway, there's no reason to worry
> about the phone having that codec.
>
> 6. Carriers offer better upgrade deals on Android devices than iOS
> devices. You can often get a "free" Android phone, even on prepaid
> carriers, while iPhones have subsidy but much lower.

As a former long-time Android phone and tablet user and defender I can
postulate too. Android feature roll-outs and OS versions happened
slowly, if at all, and were very uneven across device brands. I never
got more than one OS version update on the many HTC, Moto and Samsung
devices I owned. I had to upgrade to get the latest, and even then new
phones often did not have the latest OS installed.

I have had to replace a battery on my iPhone 14. That was because I
tried wireless charging in the car that overheated the phone. The
replacement was easy. I took it to the local Apple Store and they had it
back to me in 2 hours. That was 6 months ago and battery life is still
100%. The cost? $0. AppleCare+ took care of it. No questions asked. I
have owned iPhones and iPads since the iPhone 6s era. That's the only
battery replaced spanning 8 years and 6s, SE and 14 Pro versions.

I'll never go back. There is no Android Store 15 minutes away. My phone
and tablet get annual OS updates on the day they are released, and
regular feature and security updates too that.

Tom Elam wrote on Sun, 3 Nov 2024 08:18:59 -0500 :

> As a former long-time Android phone and tablet user and defender I can
> postulate too. Android feature roll-outs and OS versions happened
> slowly, if at all, and were very uneven across device brands. I never
> got more than one OS version update on the many HTC, Moto and Samsung
> devices I owned. I had to upgrade to get the latest, and even then new
> phones often did not have the latest OS installed.]

FACTS. Not propaganda please.

You are wrong. More to the point, your data is old. It's no longer valid.
You're five to ten years behind in all your data - so you're just wrong.

If you used Android only two or three years ago, you won't recognize
Android of today because that's how much has changed in a short time.

a. The iPhone has far more bugs than Android now (and far more exploits!).
b. The iPhone has far shorter operating system support than Android now.
c. With respect to fragmentation, even that is very old data.

More Samsung devices alone are sold than iPhones are, where the
"fragmentation" you decry doesn't exist if you stick with Pixels &
Samsungs.

To complain that other brands provide valuable choices isn't really a fair
complaint because you don't get ANY of those choices with Apple.

And Apple's puny five years of promised supprot pales in comparison to the
Samsung and Pixel promise of seven years of full hotfix support.

Remember, of all common consumer operating systems, Apple is the only one
with support so bad they only fully support a single release at a time.

Those are facts. Modern facts. Not facts from ten years ago.
Those are facts from today.

You're welcome to form a strong opinion based on old data, but just say
that your data doesn't take into account the reality of today's devices.

> I have had to replace a battery on my iPhone 14. That was because I
> tried wireless charging in the car that overheated the phone. The
> replacement was easy. I took it to the local Apple Store and they had it
> back to me in 2 hours.

That's absurd. My Android debuted around the time of the iPhone 12, and
it's still going strong. But it has a modern-sized battery.

No iPhone in the world has a batter as big as the one in my free phone.
That's the main reason iPhone batteries need to be replaced more often.

Last we checked Apple replaces almost fifteen million batteries in the USA
alone per year. Think about that. It's huge. Apple batteries are crap.

Not a single iPhone battery is even close in capacity to that of my free
Android phone (which only retailed for about two hundred dollars MSRP).

> That was 6 months ago and battery life is still
> 100%. The cost? $0. AppleCare+ took care of it.

Remember I said that the Apple trolls are ignorant? Remember?
Guess what? How did you get that AppleCare+ without paying for it?

> No questions asked.

I have a question for you.

Since almost nobody on Android pays for any extra warranty, why do most
Apple iPhone owners pay for AppleCare+ when it's never needed?

Think about that.

Apple owners are so terrified of the horrendous repair costs, that they'll
pay any amount of subscription fees just to not have to worry about them.
> have owned iPhones and iPads since the iPhone 6s era. That's the only
> battery replaced spanning 8 years and 6s, SE and 14 Pro versions.

The Apple iPads actually have decently sized batteries as it's only the
iPhone that uses comically cheap chintzy batteries in terms of capacity.

Every time you replace a battery (and millions are replaced every year!),
Apple is laughing at you AppleCare+ owners all the way to the bank.

> I'll never go back. There is no Android Store 15 minutes away. My phone
> and tablet get annual OS updates on the day they are released, and
> regular feature and security updates too that.

The one thing you're right about is that there is no such thing as an
"Android Store", which nobody on Android needs - but iPhone owners do.

I have plenty of Apple devices and when I take them to the Genius Bar, the
"Genius" at the Apple Store asks me what a Decibel is when I tell him that
I teste the iPhone side-by-side with my free Samsung & the Wi-Fi stinks.

These "Genius" Bar employees don't know how things work in the real world
as you can't test Wi-Fi without knowing what a Decibel means.

All the Genius Bar employees do is test the phone for basic stuff (like
water penetration) and recommend a new iPhone if it fails their tests.

Remember, Apple lost the lawsuits for exactly that reason.

Even Apple didn't tell its Genius Bar employees that they purposefully
lowered the life of the iPhone (which they paid a criminal fine for!).

Still... the free Apple Store Genius Bar (and free classes) are a nice
touch because Apple knows owners are petrified by the complexity of tech.

On Sun, 3 Nov 2024 15:14:10 -0000 (UTC), Andrews wrote:

> Tom Elam wrote on Sun, 3 Nov 2024 08:18:59 -0500 :
>
>> As a former long-time Android phone and tablet user and defender I can
>> postulate too. Android feature roll-outs and OS versions happened
>> slowly, if at all, and were very uneven across device brands. I never
>> got more than one OS version update on the many HTC, Moto and Samsung
>> devices I owned. I had to upgrade to get the latest, and even then new
>> phones often did not have the latest OS installed.]
>
> FACTS. Not propaganda please.
>
> You are wrong. More to the point, your data is old. It's no longer valid.
> You're five to ten years behind in all your data - so you're just wrong.
>
> If you used Android only two or three years ago, you won't recognize
> Android of today because that's how much has changed in a short time.
>
> a. The iPhone has far more bugs than Android now (and far more exploits!).
> b. The iPhone has far shorter operating system support than Android now.
> c. With respect to fragmentation, even that is very old data.
>
> More Samsung devices alone are sold than iPhones are, where the
> "fragmentation" you decry doesn't exist if you stick with Pixels &
> Samsungs.
>
> To complain that other brands provide valuable choices isn't really a fair
> complaint because you don't get ANY of those choices with Apple.
>
> And Apple's puny five years of promised supprot pales in comparison to the
> Samsung and Pixel promise of seven years of full hotfix support.
>
> Remember, of all common consumer operating systems, Apple is the only one
> with support so bad they only fully support a single release at a time.
>
> Those are facts. Modern facts. Not facts from ten years ago.
> Those are facts from today.
>
> You're welcome to form a strong opinion based on old data, but just say
> that your data doesn't take into account the reality of today's devices.
>
>> I have had to replace a battery on my iPhone 14. That was because I
>> tried wireless charging in the car that overheated the phone. The
>> replacement was easy. I took it to the local Apple Store and they had it
>> back to me in 2 hours.
>
> That's absurd. My Android debuted around the time of the iPhone 12, and
> it's still going strong. But it has a modern-sized battery.
>
> No iPhone in the world has a batter as big as the one in my free phone.
> That's the main reason iPhone batteries need to be replaced more often.
>
> Last we checked Apple replaces almost fifteen million batteries in the USA
> alone per year. Think about that. It's huge. Apple batteries are crap.
>
> Not a single iPhone battery is even close in capacity to that of my free
> Android phone (which only retailed for about two hundred dollars MSRP).
>
>> That was 6 months ago and battery life is still
>> 100%. The cost? $0. AppleCare+ took care of it.
>
> Remember I said that the Apple trolls are ignorant? Remember?
> Guess what? How did you get that AppleCare+ without paying for it?
>
>> No questions asked.
>
> I have a question for you.
>
> Since almost nobody on Android pays for any extra warranty, why do most
> Apple iPhone owners pay for AppleCare+ when it's never needed?
>
> Think about that.
>
> Apple owners are so terrified of the horrendous repair costs, that they'll
> pay any amount of subscription fees just to not have to worry about them.
>
>> have owned iPhones and iPads since the iPhone 6s era. That's the only
>> battery replaced spanning 8 years and 6s, SE and 14 Pro versions.
>
> The Apple iPads actually have decently sized batteries as it's only the
> iPhone that uses comically cheap chintzy batteries in terms of capacity.
>
> Every time you replace a battery (and millions are replaced every year!),
> Apple is laughing at you AppleCare+ owners all the way to the bank.
>
>> I'll never go back. There is no Android Store 15 minutes away. My phone
>> and tablet get annual OS updates on the day they are released, and
>> regular feature and security updates too that.
>
> The one thing you're right about is that there is no such thing as an
> "Android Store", which nobody on Android needs - but iPhone owners do.
>
> I have plenty of Apple devices and when I take them to the Genius Bar, the
> "Genius" at the Apple Store asks me what a Decibel is when I tell him that
> I teste the iPhone side-by-side with my free Samsung & the Wi-Fi stinks.
>
> These "Genius" Bar employees don't know how things work in the real world
> as you can't test Wi-Fi without knowing what a Decibel means.
>
> All the Genius Bar employees do is test the phone for basic stuff (like
> water penetration) and recommend a new iPhone if it fails their tests.
>
> Remember, Apple lost the lawsuits for exactly that reason.
>
> Even Apple didn't tell its Genius Bar employees that they purposefully
> lowered the life of the iPhone (which they paid a criminal fine for!).
>
> Still... the free Apple Store Genius Bar (and free classes) are a nice
> touch because Apple knows owners are petrified by the complexity of tech.

But how much does that Apple Care added warranty cost anyways?

On 2024-11-03 09:44, Nick Cine wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Nov 2024 15:14:10 -0000 (UTC), Andrews wrote:
>
>> Tom Elam wrote on Sun, 3 Nov 2024 08:18:59 -0500 :
>>
>>> As a former long-time Android phone and tablet user and defender I can
>>> postulate too. Android feature roll-outs and OS versions happened
>>> slowly, if at all, and were very uneven across device brands. I never
>>> got more than one OS version update on the many HTC, Moto and Samsung
>>> devices I owned. I had to upgrade to get the latest, and even then new
>>> phones often did not have the latest OS installed.]
>>
>> FACTS. Not propaganda please.
>>
>> You are wrong. More to the point, your data is old. It's no longer valid.
>> You're five to ten years behind in all your data - so you're just wrong.
>>
>> If you used Android only two or three years ago, you won't recognize
>> Android of today because that's how much has changed in a short time.
>>
>> a. The iPhone has far more bugs than Android now (and far more exploits!).
>> b. The iPhone has far shorter operating system support than Android now.
>> c. With respect to fragmentation, even that is very old data.
>>
>> More Samsung devices alone are sold than iPhones are, where the
>> "fragmentation" you decry doesn't exist if you stick with Pixels &
>> Samsungs.
>>
>> To complain that other brands provide valuable choices isn't really a fair
>> complaint because you don't get ANY of those choices with Apple.
>>
>> And Apple's puny five years of promised supprot pales in comparison to the
>> Samsung and Pixel promise of seven years of full hotfix support.
>>
>> Remember, of all common consumer operating systems, Apple is the only one
>> with support so bad they only fully support a single release at a time.
>>
>> Those are facts. Modern facts. Not facts from ten years ago.
>> Those are facts from today.
>>
>> You're welcome to form a strong opinion based on old data, but just say
>> that your data doesn't take into account the reality of today's devices.
>>
>>> I have had to replace a battery on my iPhone 14. That was because I
>>> tried wireless charging in the car that overheated the phone. The
>>> replacement was easy. I took it to the local Apple Store and they had it
>>> back to me in 2 hours.
>>
>> That's absurd. My Android debuted around the time of the iPhone 12, and
>> it's still going strong. But it has a modern-sized battery.
>>
>> No iPhone in the world has a batter as big as the one in my free phone.
>> That's the main reason iPhone batteries need to be replaced more often.
>>
>> Last we checked Apple replaces almost fifteen million batteries in the USA
>> alone per year. Think about that. It's huge. Apple batteries are crap.
>>
>> Not a single iPhone battery is even close in capacity to that of my free
>> Android phone (which only retailed for about two hundred dollars MSRP).
>>
>>> That was 6 months ago and battery life is still
>>> 100%. The cost? $0. AppleCare+ took care of it.
>>
>> Remember I said that the Apple trolls are ignorant? Remember?
>> Guess what? How did you get that AppleCare+ without paying for it?
>>
>>> No questions asked.
>>
>> I have a question for you.
>>
>> Since almost nobody on Android pays for any extra warranty, why do most
>> Apple iPhone owners pay for AppleCare+ when it's never needed?
>>
>> Think about that.
>>
>> Apple owners are so terrified of the horrendous repair costs, that they'll
>> pay any amount of subscription fees just to not have to worry about them.
>>
>>> have owned iPhones and iPads since the iPhone 6s era. That's the only
>>> battery replaced spanning 8 years and 6s, SE and 14 Pro versions.
>>
>> The Apple iPads actually have decently sized batteries as it's only the
>> iPhone that uses comically cheap chintzy batteries in terms of capacity.
>>
>> Every time you replace a battery (and millions are replaced every year!),
>> Apple is laughing at you AppleCare+ owners all the way to the bank.
>>
>>> I'll never go back. There is no Android Store 15 minutes away. My phone
>>> and tablet get annual OS updates on the day they are released, and
>>> regular feature and security updates too that.
>>
>> The one thing you're right about is that there is no such thing as an
>> "Android Store", which nobody on Android needs - but iPhone owners do.
>>
>> I have plenty of Apple devices and when I take them to the Genius Bar, the
>> "Genius" at the Apple Store asks me what a Decibel is when I tell him that
>> I teste the iPhone side-by-side with my free Samsung & the Wi-Fi stinks.
>>
>> These "Genius" Bar employees don't know how things work in the real world
>> as you can't test Wi-Fi without knowing what a Decibel means.
>>
>> All the Genius Bar employees do is test the phone for basic stuff (like
>> water penetration) and recommend a new iPhone if it fails their tests.
>>
>> Remember, Apple lost the lawsuits for exactly that reason.
>>
>> Even Apple didn't tell its Genius Bar employees that they purposefully
>> lowered the life of the iPhone (which they paid a criminal fine for!).
>>
>> Still... the free Apple Store Genius Bar (and free classes) are a nice
>> touch because Apple knows owners are petrified by the complexity of tech.
>
> But how much does that Apple Care added warranty cost anyways?

Do you notice the number of assertions that Andrew/Arlen makes that he
declares are "facts"?

"almost nobody on Android pays for any extra warranty"

Etc.

:-)

*Hemidactylus* wrote on Sun, 03 Nov 2024 23:29:29 +0000 :

>>> 2. Apple removes features from their devices causing many iPhone owners
>>> to delay upgrades because they don't want to lose features.
>>> a)What are the best selling iPhones of all time? The 6/6+ and
>>> 6s/6s+, the last two models that had a headphone jack.
>>
>> The SE (1st gen) was the last model launched with a headphone jack. Plus
>> was significantly cheaper than either the 6 or 6s. So why didn't it have
>> the highest sales figures?
>>
> For those too behind the times to use Bluetooth headphones there are these
> Lightning adaptors that provide ancient headphone jack capacity. With
> Bluetooth I can walk around the house untethered to my phone. Progress.

For those who never took a marketing class in college, Apple strategically
removes functionality from its devices so that people have to buy it back.

Apple made hundreds of millions of dollars each year by removing this basic
functionality (where Apple laughs all the way to the bank with that money).

It's Apple's marketing strategy to corral users by limiting their choices.

*Hemidactylus* wrote on Mon, 04 Nov 2024 11:10:22 +0000 :

>> In five years I'm on my third pair of BT earpods. In the flip side, I still
>> have wired headphones that are decades old which work perfectly well.
>> Progress?
>>
> I have higher quality headphones not "pods". And they hold a charge for
> quite a time. Not being tethered is progress as is not using an auxillary
> cable in my car. Bluetooth has been reliable for me and sound quality ok.
> Again one can use an adaptor cable for the jack into headphones or aux in a
> car or into RCA adaptors for a home entertainment center. I've done the
> latter, playing my phone through a cable into a home system. The loss of a
> headphone specific hole in the phone is a non-issue seized upon by local
> miscreants for their trolling agenda.

It's Apple's fundamentally basic marketing strategy to limit users' choice.
By restricting users' choices, Apple ends up making *lots of money*.

Chris is correct.

He has the choice of either bluetooth or wired.
You do not.

The fact is there is nothing a phone without this basic functionality of a
headphone jack can do that a phone with the headphone jack cannnot do.

The *only* difference - is your choices are limited, Hemidactylus.
Chris' choices are not.

On 2024-11-04 08:18, Andrews wrote:
> *Hemidactylus* wrote on Mon, 04 Nov 2024 11:10:22 +0000 :
>
>>> In five years I'm on my third pair of BT earpods. In the flip side, I still
>>> have wired headphones that are decades old which work perfectly well.
>>> Progress?
>>>
>> I have higher quality headphones not "pods". And they hold a charge for
>> quite a time. Not being tethered is progress as is not using an auxillary
>> cable in my car. Bluetooth has been reliable for me and sound quality ok.
>> Again one can use an adaptor cable for the jack into headphones or aux in a
>> car or into RCA adaptors for a home entertainment center. I've done the
>> latter, playing my phone through a cable into a home system. The loss of a
>> headphone specific hole in the phone is a non-issue seized upon by local
>> miscreants for their trolling agenda.
>
> It's Apple's fundamentally basic marketing strategy to limit users' choice.
> By restricting users' choices, Apple ends up making *lots of money*.
>
> Chris is correct.
>
> He has the choice of either bluetooth or wired.
> You do not.

Wrong.

Simply, factually wrong.

<https://www.amazon.ca/s?k=lightning+earbuds&crid=3OU842X7KFK27&sprefix=lightning+ear%2Caps%2C160&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_13>

<https://www.amazon.ca/s?k=usb+c+earbuds&crid=384MZJRK653TE&sprefix=usb+c+ear%2Caps%2C165&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_2_9>

On 11/3/2024 10:14 AM, Andrews wrote:
> Tom Elam wrote on Sun, 3 Nov 2024 08:18:59 -0500 :
>
>> As a former long-time Android phone and tablet user and defender I can
>> postulate too. Android feature roll-outs and OS versions happened
>> slowly, if at all, and were very uneven across device brands. I never
>> got more than one OS version update on the many HTC, Moto and Samsung
>> devices I owned. I had to upgrade to get the latest, and even then new
>> phones often did not have the latest OS installed.]
>
> FACTS. Not propaganda please.
>
> You are wrong. More to the point, your data is old. It's no longer valid.
> You're five to ten years behind in all your data - so you're just wrong.
>
> If you used Android only two or three years ago, you won't recognize
> Android of today because that's how much has changed in a short time.
>
> a. The iPhone has far more bugs than Android now (and far more exploits!).
> b. The iPhone has far shorter operating system support than Android now.
> c. With respect to fragmentation, even that is very old data.
>
> More Samsung devices alone are sold than iPhones are, where the
> "fragmentation" you decry doesn't exist if you stick with Pixels &
> Samsungs.
>
> To complain that other brands provide valuable choices isn't really a fair
> complaint because you don't get ANY of those choices with Apple.
>
> And Apple's puny five years of promised supprot pales in comparison to the
> Samsung and Pixel promise of seven years of full hotfix support.
>
> Remember, of all common consumer operating systems, Apple is the only one
> with support so bad they only fully support a single release at a time.
>
> Those are facts. Modern facts. Not facts from ten years ago.
> Those are facts from today.
>
> You're welcome to form a strong opinion based on old data, but just say
> that your data doesn't take into account the reality of today's devices.
>
>> I have had to replace a battery on my iPhone 14. That was because I
>> tried wireless charging in the car that overheated the phone. The
>> replacement was easy. I took it to the local Apple Store and they had it
>> back to me in 2 hours.
>
> That's absurd. My Android debuted around the time of the iPhone 12, and
> it's still going strong. But it has a modern-sized battery.
>
> No iPhone in the world has a batter as big as the one in my free phone.
> That's the main reason iPhone batteries need to be replaced more often.
>
> Last we checked Apple replaces almost fifteen million batteries in the USA
> alone per year. Think about that. It's huge. Apple batteries are crap.
>
> Not a single iPhone battery is even close in capacity to that of my free
> Android phone (which only retailed for about two hundred dollars MSRP).
>
>> That was 6 months ago and battery life is still
>> 100%. The cost? $0. AppleCare+ took care of it.
>
> Remember I said that the Apple trolls are ignorant? Remember?
> Guess what? How did you get that AppleCare+ without paying for it?
>
>> No questions asked.
>
> I have a question for you.
>
> Since almost nobody on Android pays for any extra warranty, why do most
> Apple iPhone owners pay for AppleCare+ when it's never needed?
>
> Think about that.
>
> Apple owners are so terrified of the horrendous repair costs, that they'll
> pay any amount of subscription fees just to not have to worry about them.
>
>> have owned iPhones and iPads since the iPhone 6s era. That's the only
>> battery replaced spanning 8 years and 6s, SE and 14 Pro versions.
>
> The Apple iPads actually have decently sized batteries as it's only the
> iPhone that uses comically cheap chintzy batteries in terms of capacity.
>
> Every time you replace a battery (and millions are replaced every year!),
> Apple is laughing at you AppleCare+ owners all the way to the bank.
>
>> I'll never go back. There is no Android Store 15 minutes away. My phone
>> and tablet get annual OS updates on the day they are released, and
>> regular feature and security updates too that.
>
> The one thing you're right about is that there is no such thing as an
> "Android Store", which nobody on Android needs - but iPhone owners do.
>
> I have plenty of Apple devices and when I take them to the Genius Bar, the
> "Genius" at the Apple Store asks me what a Decibel is when I tell him that
> I teste the iPhone side-by-side with my free Samsung & the Wi-Fi stinks.
>
> These "Genius" Bar employees don't know how things work in the real world
> as you can't test Wi-Fi without knowing what a Decibel means.
>
> All the Genius Bar employees do is test the phone for basic stuff (like
> water penetration) and recommend a new iPhone if it fails their tests.
>
> Remember, Apple lost the lawsuits for exactly that reason.
>
> Even Apple didn't tell its Genius Bar employees that they purposefully
> lowered the life of the iPhone (which they paid a criminal fine for!).
>
> Still... the free Apple Store Genius Bar (and free classes) are a nice
> touch because Apple knows owners are petrified by the complexity of tech.

Just a few replies.

I dropped my iPad 9 and cracked the screen. AppleCare+ replaced the iPad.

The Genius Bar people are incredibly helpful. I took an AirTag in that
had stopped working. The tech checked it and recommended a different
battery brand. That fixed it.

I bought a M1 Macbook and it bricked after 14 days. The Genius Bar tech
offered to get it fixed but I asked for and received a full refund.

As for software and hardware support Apple far surpasses Android. But
you don't have to believe me.

https://news.techable.com/apples-software-support-for-iphones-how-long/

"Apple typically provides iOS updates for iPhones for about six to eight
years. For example, the iPhone 15 series, released in September 2023, is
expected to receive updates until 2031. Similarly, the iPhone 14 series,
launched in 2022, will be supported until 2029. Older models like the
iPhone 8 and iPhone X, released in 2017, have recently reached the end
of their update cycle as of 2023.

Apple’s support isn’t limited to just software updates. The company also
offers hardware support for about five to seven years after the last
sale date of the product. This means users can get their devices
serviced or repaired at Apple Stores and authorized service providers
during this period. This dual support system ensures that iPhones remain
functional and secure long after their initial release​.

Most Android manufacturers, including major brands like Samsung and
Google, typically offer around three to four years of updates. For
instance, Google’s Pixel phones have started to offer five years of
updates, but this still falls short of Apple’s standard. OnePlus offers
three years of major updates and four years of security updates, while
Motorola and Sony lag behind with even shorter support periods​​."

https://www.businessinsider.com/guides/tech/iphone-vs-android

"Apple has a consistent history of keeping older iPhone models secure
against common security threats."

"Android manufacturers have a comparatively poor history of keeping
their phones supported with software and security updates."

"Apple keeps more generations of iPhones supported with security updates
than any Android phone maker we know about."

But facts will never convince you.

"Tom Elam wrote on Mon, 4 Nov 2024 08:42:11 -0500 :

> Just a few replies.
>
> I dropped my iPad 9 and cracked the screen. AppleCare+ replaced the iPad.

Hi Tom Elam,
You don't seem to be like an Apple zealot so I converse with you assuming
you own adult assessment skills (which is a normal way of conversing).

All phones come with an initial free warranty from the OEM & the seller.

And trust me, I *use* those free warranties! It's well known on this
newsgroup T-Mobile gave me a handful of free Samsung Galaxy A32-5G phones
in April of 2021, and within the two year warranty period, I broke two of
them. And T-Mobile replaced both. For free. I'm on the third one still.
<https://i.postimg.cc/YC1B906F/tmopromo01.jpg> A32-5G & iPhone 12 contract
<https://i.postimg.cc/Xq5SpS4D/tmopromo02.jpg> $15/mo iPhone,$0/mo Android
<https://i.postimg.cc/nhpbcP50/tmopromo04.jpg> $100 for 6 lines + $16 fees

All under the seller's warranty. I didn't even have to go to Samsung.

When T-Mobile replaces a phone under warranty, they insist (rightly so) on
seeing the old phone in person (at the T-Mobile store - which is similar in
concept but not in implementation to your vaunted "Apple Store").

They charged me $20 for the first & $25 for the second (prices went up).
But wait. I complained that it's not my fault the phone broke.

So they credited me the amount ahead of time (before I even went to the
T-Mobil Store (which is akin to your beloved "Apple Store" in this case).

Free phone. Free replacement. Multiple free replacement. Under warranty.
Free warranty too!

> The Genius Bar people are incredibly helpful. I took an AirTag in that
> had stopped working. The tech checked it and recommended a different
> battery brand. That fixed it.

I never disagree with someone whose assessments are based on fact.

I fully agree the Genius Bar blueshirts are "incredibly helpful" indeed.
I've set up many an appointment for my aging aunt, for example, there.

She *loves* visiting them as they are patient with her & explain it all.
I can't do that with her. She drives me nuts. All those dumb questions.

It's like she didn't live through the computer age that we all lived in.

I started in the sixties with computers - and we didn't have Genius Bar
help then - where I learned to figure things out when they didn't work.

There is no doubt of the veracity of your assessment that the Genius Bar
employees are "incredibly helpful" in testing your device (but only in the
way they're taught to test it) and in recommending an Apple replacement.

No doubt about it.
They are incredibly helpful in testing & recommending a new device.

That's their job, by the way.
They're salesmen too.

Do you doubt my assessment?
Well then, are you aware of what has been in the news for many years?

Apple even got sued over that exact practice we both agree on Apple does.
Apple was even accused of a crime for exactly that same practice too.

And Apple paid the fine for both of those (which is well known).
a. One was half a billion dollars in settlement agreement.
b. The other was a paltry few million dollars for the crime.
c. But Apple had to publicly admit (for only 30 days) that they did it.

After the 30 days expired, Apple took down the ad on their main French
website that they had committed the crime and that they'd not do it again.

This is well known as we've discussed this upmpteen times on this ng.

> I bought a M1 Macbook and it bricked after 14 days. The Genius Bar tech
> offered to get it fixed but I asked for and received a full refund.

Again, I don't doubt the veracity of your fact above, but I might question
your elation on the assessment that the Genius Bar is who did that for you.

I bought a ton of iPads and Android tablets at Costco, for example.
And I can return them for a "full refund" within three months.

Three months is way better than your measly two weeks, right?
No questions asked.

In California, you can get a full refund after you buy a phone for a month
(I think it's a month - but it could be only half a month).

No questions asked.

My point is I don't doubt the accuracy of your fact; I simply state your
assessment that it's anything unusual to refund your money in full after a
measly two weeks when I can get that same refund for much longer.

Without the Genius Bar being involved at all.

> As for software and hardware support Apple far surpasses Android.

Again, I ask you to question your assessment since I probably own more
Apple mobile devices than you do, so I'm well aware of their support.

I've worked with computers since the sixties so I'm not fooled at all by
Apple's rather clever advertising on support. I happen to know the facts.

What you are doing is you parrot exactly what Apple told you to parrot.
But parroting Apple propaganda requires you to back up that propaganda.

Let me ask you some simple factual questions to test your knowledge:
Q: How many years does Apple have a written promise to support iPhones?
[Please put a single-digit number of years here = ?]
Q: How many years does Google have a written promise to support Pixels?
[Please put a single-digit number of years here = ?]
Q: How many years does Samsung have a written promise to support Galaxies?
[Please put a single-digit number of years here = ?]

Since two of those numbers are the same, we're only looking at two numbers.
What are they?

Apple full support = ?
Google/Samsung full support = ?

When you fill in that single digit, come back and tell us which company has
the *worst support* in that mix. Tell us if it is Apple or Google/Samsung.

> But you don't have to believe me.

If you're not an Apple troll like Jolly Roger, nospam, Lewis, JF Mezei,
Alan Baker, Alan Browne, Chris, Haemactylus, Joerg Lorenz, et. al, then
you will realize that I'm a normal person who believes in facts.

My assessments are based on facts. Not (rather clever) Apple propaganda.
Facts.

As such, unlike the Apple trolls listed above, I *click* on all URLs.
And I read them. Most importantly, I *understand* what they say.

So let's click on your URL you scoured the Internet to find. Shall we?

> https://news.techable.com/apples-software-support-for-iphones-how-long/
> "Apple typically provides iOS updates for iPhones for about six to eight
> years. For example, the iPhone 15 series, released in September 2023, is
> expected to receive updates until 2031. Similarly, the iPhone 14 series,
> launched in 2022, will be supported until 2029. Older models like the
> iPhone 8 and iPhone X, released in 2017, have recently reached the end
> of their update cycle as of 2023.

Jesus Christ. Did you even *read* your own cite before you suggested it?
Seriously.

The fact is Apple has the *worst hotfix support* in the computer industry.
Bar none.

That's just a fact.
It's not propaganda.

No common consumer operating system has worse support than Apple.
None.

Everyone is better. By far. Linux. Android. Windows. All of them.

You don't know the difference between "support" & "full support" do you?
You don't have a clue, right?

And yet, the difference between "support" & "full support" is astounding.

Do you know Android typically provides updates to *all* Android phones over
Android 10 over the Internet - every single month - that's "support".

That's *billions* of Android phones being updated every single month.
Forever. There is no End of Life (EOL) date. That's "support" for you.
And even if there was an EOL date from Google - it's all open sourced.

Likewise, do you know that Microsoft provides "support" for Windows 10
since, oh, I don't know, basically fifteen years ago if you count that the
operating system was updated for free since around about then.

But even if you only count Windows 10, and if you limit the years to "full
support", it's still clear Windows kicks everyone's ass, even Android.

Google and Samsung promise 7 years of full support. It's in writing.
Everyone knows this.

Apple promises only 5 years of full support. That's in writing too.
Everyone (but you) knows this too.

Please learn the difference between "support" & "full support" please.

In *both* cases, Apple's "support/full support" is the worst of all.
Look it up. We've discussed this many times on this newsgroup alone.

> Apple's support isn't limited to just software updates. The company also
> offers hardware support for about five to seven years after the last
> sale date of the product. This means users can get their devices
> serviced or repaired at Apple Stores and authorized service providers
> during this period. This dual support system ensures that iPhones remain
> functional and secure long after their initial release'.

The fact is nobody's "support" is "limited to just software updates".
Not Microsoft. Not Google. Not Samsung. Not Apple.

In article <vg30do$km$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>,
Andrews <andrews@spam.net> writes:
> John Hill wrote on Fri, 1 Nov 2024 08:01:46 -0000 (UTC) :
>
>> You will never get trolls to buy in; otherwise they wouldn't be trolls.
>
> You are correct that the Apple trolls like Alan Baker, Joerg Lorenz, Chris,
> Alan Browne, Jolly Roger, Hemidactylus, nospam, Lewis, et al., will always
> defend Apple to the death, no matter the truth - because... hmmm.. Why?
>
> They'll always make inane excuses for why Apple has more zero-day exploits,
> or why Apple didn't have call recording, or why Apple doesn't allow
> interoperability, or why Apple products don't have basic hardware, or why
> Apple always is chintzy on basics such as RAM & battery capacity, etc.
>
> Why do the Apple trolls inundate this newsgroup with those inane apologies?
>
> I know why.
> Do you?

Windows is excrement, always has been, always will be.

Linux for better or worse doesn't need people bashing other OS's to support it,
they can write their own damn code to support it or STFU.

Richard L. Hamilton wrote on Mon, 04 Nov 2024 17:03:07 GMT :

> Linux for better or worse doesn't need people bashing other OS's to support it,
> they can write their own damn code to support it or STFU.

Having grown up on computers well before Linux existed, I've written in hex
so I'm well aware that with Linux, you can do anything.

I always wondered why Linux didn't kill Microsoft Windows.
I think the real reason is Microsoft Office.

In the early days of Microsoft Office it was crap on the Mac.
But no more. Now it's the same on both the Mac and on the Windows PC.

Linux has "alternatives" but Microsoft Office seems to be what people want.
Companies too.

Unless... of course, we talk server farms. Then Linux rules.

> Windows is excrement, always has been, always will be.

There isn't anyone on the Windows newsgroups who wouldn't agree with you.
Yet be careful with assessments as most would say Apple's PC is crap too.

You'd have to think about that a bit to understand the world of PCs.
If one is crap - it doesn't mean the other isn't just *different* crap.

There are many components of that "crap", one of which is OS support.
Right?

For example, at least Microsoft fully supports concurrent releases.
In fact, Microsoft currently supports *two* Windows releases (10 & 11).

Apple has *never* fully supported more than a single release at a time.
That's just a fact.

Given Apple only fully supports a single MacOS release at a time...
Q: Whose full-OS support is crap now?
Note that assessments, to be reasonable, need to be based on facts.

On 2024-11-03 16:06, Andrews wrote:
> *Hemidactylus* wrote on Sun, 03 Nov 2024 23:29:29 +0000 :
>
>>>> 2. Apple removes features from their devices causing many iPhone owners
>>>> to delay upgrades because they don't want to lose features.
>>>> a)What are the best selling iPhones of all time? The 6/6+ and
>>>> 6s/6s+, the last two models that had a headphone jack.
>>>
>>> The SE (1st gen) was the last model launched with a headphone jack. Plus
>>> was significantly cheaper than either the 6 or 6s. So why didn't it have
>>> the highest sales figures?
>>>
>> For those too behind the times to use Bluetooth headphones there are these
>> Lightning adaptors that provide ancient headphone jack capacity. With
>> Bluetooth I can walk around the house untethered to my phone. Progress.
>
> For those who never took a marketing class in college, Apple strategically
> removes functionality from its devices so that people have to buy it back.

The functionality was being able to plug in ear buds to your phone.

It wasn't removed.

On 11/3/2024 10:14 AM, Andrews wrote:
> Tom Elam wrote on Sun, 3 Nov 2024 08:18:59 -0500 :
>
>> As a former long-time Android phone and tablet user and defender I can
>> postulate too. Android feature roll-outs and OS versions happened
>> slowly, if at all, and were very uneven across device brands. I never
>> got more than one OS version update on the many HTC, Moto and Samsung
>> devices I owned. I had to upgrade to get the latest, and even then new
>> phones often did not have the latest OS installed.]
>
> FACTS. Not propaganda please.
>
> You are wrong. More to the point, your data is old. It's no longer valid.
> You're five to ten years behind in all your data - so you're just wrong.
>
> If you used Android only two or three years ago, you won't recognize
> Android of today because that's how much has changed in a short time.
>
> a. The iPhone has far more bugs than Android now (and far more exploits!).
> b. The iPhone has far shorter operating system support than Android now.
> c. With respect to fragmentation, even that is very old data.
>
> More Samsung devices alone are sold than iPhones are, where the
> "fragmentation" you decry doesn't exist if you stick with Pixels &
> Samsungs.
>
> To complain that other brands provide valuable choices isn't really a fair
> complaint because you don't get ANY of those choices with Apple.
>
> And Apple's puny five years of promised supprot pales in comparison to the
> Samsung and Pixel promise of seven years of full hotfix support.
>
> Remember, of all common consumer operating systems, Apple is the only one
> with support so bad they only fully support a single release at a time.
>
> Those are facts. Modern facts. Not facts from ten years ago.
> Those are facts from today.
>
> You're welcome to form a strong opinion based on old data, but just say
> that your data doesn't take into account the reality of today's devices.
>
>> I have had to replace a battery on my iPhone 14. That was because I
>> tried wireless charging in the car that overheated the phone. The
>> replacement was easy. I took it to the local Apple Store and they had it
>> back to me in 2 hours.
>
> That's absurd. My Android debuted around the time of the iPhone 12, and
> it's still going strong. But it has a modern-sized battery.
>
> No iPhone in the world has a batter as big as the one in my free phone.
> That's the main reason iPhone batteries need to be replaced more often.
>
> Last we checked Apple replaces almost fifteen million batteries in the USA
> alone per year. Think about that. It's huge. Apple batteries are crap.
>
> Not a single iPhone battery is even close in capacity to that of my free
> Android phone (which only retailed for about two hundred dollars MSRP).
>
>> That was 6 months ago and battery life is still
>> 100%. The cost? $0. AppleCare+ took care of it.
>
> Remember I said that the Apple trolls are ignorant? Remember?
> Guess what? How did you get that AppleCare+ without paying for it?
>
>> No questions asked.
>
> I have a question for you.
>
> Since almost nobody on Android pays for any extra warranty, why do most
> Apple iPhone owners pay for AppleCare+ when it's never needed?
>
> Think about that.
>
> Apple owners are so terrified of the horrendous repair costs, that they'll
> pay any amount of subscription fees just to not have to worry about them.
>
>> have owned iPhones and iPads since the iPhone 6s era. That's the only
>> battery replaced spanning 8 years and 6s, SE and 14 Pro versions.
>
> The Apple iPads actually have decently sized batteries as it's only the
> iPhone that uses comically cheap chintzy batteries in terms of capacity.
>
> Every time you replace a battery (and millions are replaced every year!),
> Apple is laughing at you AppleCare+ owners all the way to the bank.
>
>> I'll never go back. There is no Android Store 15 minutes away. My phone
>> and tablet get annual OS updates on the day they are released, and
>> regular feature and security updates too that.
>
> The one thing you're right about is that there is no such thing as an
> "Android Store", which nobody on Android needs - but iPhone owners do.
>
> I have plenty of Apple devices and when I take them to the Genius Bar, the
> "Genius" at the Apple Store asks me what a Decibel is when I tell him that
> I teste the iPhone side-by-side with my free Samsung & the Wi-Fi stinks.
>
> These "Genius" Bar employees don't know how things work in the real world
> as you can't test Wi-Fi without knowing what a Decibel means.
>
> All the Genius Bar employees do is test the phone for basic stuff (like
> water penetration) and recommend a new iPhone if it fails their tests.
>
> Remember, Apple lost the lawsuits for exactly that reason.
>
> Even Apple didn't tell its Genius Bar employees that they purposefully
> lowered the life of the iPhone (which they paid a criminal fine for!).
>
> Still... the free Apple Store Genius Bar (and free classes) are a nice
> touch because Apple knows owners are petrified by the complexity of tech.

I'm not impressed by your 15 million number. I cannot find any recent
estimates. Please supply your source. It is known that some 15 million
were replaced in about 2018 in the wake of the Iphone 6 fiasco.