On 2024-10-15 07:04, Tom Elam wrote:
> On 10/11/2024 1:58 AM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-10-10 20:20, Tom Elam wrote:
>>> On 10/10/2024 8:31 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-10-10 13:30, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>> On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> ...ON THE TRACK:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in
>>>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/365/
>>>>>>>>>>> FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The
>>>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So why is the field mostly Hondas?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on
>>>>>>>>>>> more profitable things.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And, gee, what do you know?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The "uncompetitive" Kent...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Who'd have thought it?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Really?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results,
>>>>>>>>> 1st in Provisional Results
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR
>>>>>>>>> 6.11.1.D,
>>>>>>>>> Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule
>>>>>>>> infraction involved...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating.
>>>>>>> You said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" the
>>>>>>> when confronted with the truth changed it to "could have won",
>>>>>>> Liarboy. So typical of you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have
>>>>>> been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that he
>>>>>> moved to aggressively to defend his position, and having seen the
>>>>>> video, that's certainly true. But your claim has always been that
>>>>>> the Ford can't be competitive with the Honda and there's no way
>>>>>> that can be true if a Ford can be in the lead on the last lap of
>>>>>> the race.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
>>>>>
>>>>> You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
>>>>> won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
>>>>
>>>> Nope. When I wrote it, I didn't know about the SCCA's decision.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one race
>>>>> I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race. That
>>>>> is not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking another
>>>>> driver. Had he not done so he might have not placed first in the
>>>>> provisional standings. In other words, he cheated the other driver
>>>>> out of an opportunity to pass and was appropriately penalized. Had
>>>>> he followed the rules he very likely would not have even won a
>>>>> provisional first.
>>>>
>>>> And where have I said the penalty wasn't appropriate, Liarboy?
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have
>>>>> been VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If they
>>>>> were competitive on performance and cost there would be more. If
>>>>> the Kent was a better engine overall on performance and cost the
>>>>> Kent would dominate. Even you agree. After all you bought a Honda-
>>>>> powered car, Liarboy.
>>>>
>>>> And the only reason you now hold that position is that, /I/ had to
>>>> explain that there is more to racing that speed on the track.
>>>>
>>>> And your original position was that the Honda made me FASTER ON THE
>>>> TRACK.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
>>>>> profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not competitive
>>>>> when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the money on the
>>>>> Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a consistent basis?
>>>>> YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so scarce in the Runoffs.
>>>>
>>>> I never said it couldn't go out and beat the Honda on a consistent
>>>> basis, Liarboy.
>>>>
>>>> I said it would COST more in money and time.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are more
>>>>> than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major traits
>>>>> of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of the
>>>>> narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit being wrong, or
>>>>> that the other person who disagrees with you is right. Such people
>>>>> are also totally blind to their disorder.
>>>>
>>>> Right back at ya, ashole.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You misspelled asshole
>>>
>>> You bought the Honda because you can't afford to maintain a Kent in
>>> top racing form. It did make you faster.
>>
>> Not because it was inherently faster, asshole. (did I spell it right
>> for you this time, Asshole?).
>>
>> The guy who holds the fastest time at Mission in an FF had a Kent,
>> prepared by one of the two best FF Kent engine builders certainly in
>> North America and probably in the world (Arnie Loyning) that was
>> prepped by his brother-in-law's professional prep shop.
>>
>> I was fast because I'm that good.
>
> LOL! How many Honda cars have competed at Mission? And, you make my
> point. It takes extensive and expensive prep for the Kent to even come
> close to the Honda. Anything less is not competitive. You were faster
> driving a Honda-powered car. I proved that some time back.

On 2024-10-15 08:09, Tom Elam wrote:
> On 10/12/2024 11:46 AM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-10-12 04:36, Tom Elam wrote:
>>> On 10/11/2024 2:17 AM, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-10-10 17:46, Alan wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-10-10 13:30, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> ...ON THE TRACK:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in
>>>>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/365/
>>>>>>>>>>>> FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The
>>>>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So why is the field mostly Hondas?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on
>>>>>>>>>>>> more profitable things.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And, gee, what do you know?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The "uncompetitive" Kent...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Who'd have thought it?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Really?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results,
>>>>>>>>>> 1st in Provisional Results
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR
>>>>>>>>>> 6.11.1.D,
>>>>>>>>>> Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule
>>>>>>>>> infraction involved...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating.
>>>>>>>> You said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
>>>>>>>> the when confronted with the truth changed it to "could have
>>>>>>>> won", Liarboy. So typical of you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have
>>>>>>> been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that he
>>>>>>> moved to aggressively to defend his position, and having seen the
>>>>>>> video, that's certainly true. But your claim has always been that
>>>>>>> the Ford can't be competitive with the Honda and there's no way
>>>>>>> that can be true if a Ford can be in the lead on the last lap of
>>>>>>> the race.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
>>>>>> won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one
>>>>>> race I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race.
>>>>>> That is not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking another
>>>>>> driver. Had he not done so he might have not placed first in the
>>>>>> provisional standings. In other words, he cheated the other driver
>>>>>> out of an opportunity to pass and was appropriately penalized. Had
>>>>>> he followed the rules he very likely would not have even won a
>>>>>> provisional first.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have
>>>>>> been VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If they
>>>>>> were competitive on performance and cost there would be more. If
>>>>>> the Kent was a better engine overall on performance and cost the
>>>>>> Kent would dominate. Even you agree. After all you bought a Honda-
>>>>>> powered car, Liarboy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
>>>>>> profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not
>>>>>> competitive when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the
>>>>>> money on the Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a
>>>>>> consistent basis? YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so scarce
>>>>>> in the Runoffs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are
>>>>>> more than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major
>>>>>> traits of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of
>>>>>> the narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit being
>>>>>> wrong, or that the other person who disagrees with you is right.
>>>>>> Such people are also totally blind to their disorder.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just for absolute clarity, Liarboy:
>>>>>
>>>>> I posted about the Runoffs win at 16:20PDT on October 4...
>>>>>
>>>>> ...and the official results weren't posted until 17:00 (Wisconsin
>>>>> time presumably)...
>>>>>
>>>>> ...on October 5.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just another example of your careful understanding of the
>>>>> situation, hmmm?
>>>>
>>>> <crickets.wav>
>>>
>>> Competition weeds out the weak - individuals, companies, entire
>>> species, and race car engines. HH has confused cause and effect. The
>>> cause of so few Kents at this level of competition is that all things
>>> considered they are not competitive. If the Kent is, all things
>>> considered, a more competitive engine than the Honda, there would be
>>> a lot more entered. The Runoffs FF engine market has for years been
>>> dominated by Honda. Prove me wrong.
>>
>> I don't HAVE to "prove" you wrong, you mendacious asshole.
>>
>> You are literally parroting back to me what I explained to you when
>> you tried to claim that using a Honda made the car faster...
>>
>> ...ON THE TRACK,
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Alan, you were in such a rush to brag about that outcome you did not
>>> even wait for the official results. Then after they were posted you
>>> never corrected your post. Liar either way. Yes, it was a case of
>>> cheating. That driver was not allowing faster cars to pass. Do you
>>> understand that the fact that he had to do that meant under the rules
>>> he illegally placed first? Or that other cars were faster?
>>
>> I only just discovered the the fact a couple of days ago.
>>
>>>
>>> I never claimed that a Kent can't win a race. I'm looking at FF
>>> engine choices. Can the Kent compete straight-up against the Honda?
>>> Interesting question, no?
>>
>> What you claimed (and I have the receipts) is that a Honda was faster...
>>
>> ...ON THE TRACK.
>>
>>>
>>> In fact, in 2011 SCCA established Formula 1600, limited to the Kent
>>> engine cars. These cars are eligible for FF races too. Do they show
>>> up at Runoffs? Yes. Likely only the best do that. Did any show up
>>> this year? Just one. So why do we now have a class limited to the
>>> Kent? Why not just one class?
>>>
>>
>> And where did you pull this revelation from, Liarboy?
>>
>> Because it is absolutely not true:
>>
>> 'FORMULA
>>
>> The eight formula classes are all single-seat, open wheel racecars.
>> They are built to detailed specifications for weight, size and engine
>> displacement. There are incredible power to weight ratios in each
>> class. The classes in order of fastest to slowest are: Formula
>> Atlantic® (FA), Formula 1000 (FB), Formula SCCA® (FE), Formula
>> Continental® (FC), Formula Mazda (FM), Formula F (FF), Formula 500
>> (F500) and Formula Vee® (FV).'
>>
>> <https://www.scca.com/pages/car-classifications-and-groups>
>>
>> There is no SCCA class called "Formula 1600". There IS a race series
>> called "F1600" which was created by the SCCA in 2011 as a professional
>> series for Formula F cars.
>>
>> But the cars are run under precisely the same rules as the SCCA's
>> amateur series. Including the legality of the Honda.
>>
>> My guess is that you saw the same, and simply assumed that since there
>> was "1600" in the name, it must obviously have meant the 1,600cc Kent
>> engine and not the 1,500cc Honda.
>>
>> For a Ph.D., you really seem to lack the ability to do diligent
>> research, don't you?
>>
>>> In fact, over in England the Brands Hatch Formula Ford Festival is
>>> restricted to Kent engines. https://www.brandshatch.co.uk/2024/
>>> october/ formula-ford-festival
>>>
>>> Why is that? Why not allow Honda engines to compete too? What are
>>> they afraid of?
>>
>> They simply went a different way, Liarboy.
>>
>> In the US, there was a problem because the number of engine blocks for
>> building Kent engines was drying up. And because Ford wasn't
>> interested in doing anything to alleviate the situation, an engine
>> builder (Quicksilver in Maryland) came up with a solution to the
>> problem. They adapted the Honda Fit 1500cc engine to use in place of
>> the Kent, because (most importantly) it was physically small enough
>> that it would fit in the engine bays of most cars built for the Kent
>> even after adding an adapter plate between the engine and bellhousing
>> (otherwise the bolt holes on each wouldn't line up). Then the
>> carefully programmed an ECU and included a restrictor in what would
>> otherwise have been a 50mm throttle body, and after starting with too
>> small a size, adjusted it upward until they landed on a 30.5mm
>> restrictor to equalize the Honda with the Kent.
>>
>> In the UK, they addressed the issue of the drying up of Kent engines
>> earlier, and created a version of Formula Ford using Ford's Zetec
>> engine in 1993, and then later switching to the Ford Duratec engine
>> for 2006.
>>
>> But there was no attempt made to equalize the performance of the two,
>> but also no need for them to build a version with a Honda engine.
>>
>> So for the years 1993 to 2005, the overall Formula Ford Festival was
>> using a Zetec engine, and from 2006 to 2012 it was using the Duratec,
>> while they award a separate for the Kent-powered cars for some of
>> those years.
>>
>> And in years 2009 to 2012, they awarded all three engines separately.
>>
>> But you aren't even really aware that there are differences between
>> the classes called "Formula Ford" in different parts of the world, are
>> you?
>>
>
> Yes, I am aware. I stand corrected when I stated that F1600 does not
> allow the Honda engine. Do I ever! The Honda dominates F1600, having won
> every season championship since 2012.

On 10/15/24 12:21 PM, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-10-15 08:05, Tom Elam wrote:
>> On 10/11/2024 7:38 AM, -hh wrote:
>>> On 10/11/24 1:59 AM, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-10-10 20:17, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>> On 10/10/2024 5:14 PM, -hh wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/10/24 4:30 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...ON THE TRACK:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/365/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So why is the field mostly Hondas?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> more profitable things.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And, gee, what do you know?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The "uncompetitive" Kent...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Who'd have thought it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Really?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results,
>>>>>>>>>>> 1st in Provisional Results
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR
>>>>>>>>>>> 6.11.1.D,
>>>>>>>>>>> Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule
>>>>>>>>>> infraction involved...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating.
>>>>>>>>> You said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
>>>>>>>>> the when confronted with the truth changed it to "could have
>>>>>>>>> won", Liarboy. So typical of you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have
>>>>>>>> been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that
>>>>>>>> he moved to aggressively to defend his position, and having seen
>>>>>>>> the video, that's certainly true. But your claim has always been
>>>>>>>> that the Ford can't be competitive with the Honda and there's no
>>>>>>>> way that can be true if a Ford can be in the lead on the last
>>>>>>>> lap of the race.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
>>>>>>> won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one
>>>>>>> race I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race.
>>>>>>> That is not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking
>>>>>>> another driver. Had he not done so he might have not placed first
>>>>>>> in the provisional standings. In other words, he cheated the
>>>>>>> other driver out of an opportunity to pass and was appropriately
>>>>>>> penalized. Had he followed the rules he very likely would not
>>>>>>> have even won a provisional first.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Such rule infractions often have a big old dose of grey.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have
>>>>>>> been VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If
>>>>>>> they were competitive on performance and cost there would be
>>>>>>> more. If the Kent was a better engine overall on performance and
>>>>>>> cost the Kent would dominate. Even you agree. After all you
>>>>>>> bought a Honda- powered car, Liarboy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately, it doesn't really matter if its one team or a dozen
>>>>>> teams that get to the final rounds:  it is as if you're trying to
>>>>>> claim that the baseball team that loses in the World Series must
>>>>>> "suck" because they didn't win in the final round.  Sorry, but
>>>>>> they had to have beaten a lot of other teams before they got to
>>>>>> the final rounds.  Point is that the mere presence of a Kent in
>>>>>> the finals indicates that the Formula organizers have done a good
>>>>>> job in balancing their index of performance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
>>>>>>> profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not
>>>>>>> competitive when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the
>>>>>>> money on the Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a
>>>>>>> consistent basis? YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so
>>>>>>> scarce in the Runoffs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, that's trying to incorrectly use a statistical bias to make an
>>>>>> invalid claim:  that a Kent requires higher maintenance explains
>>>>>> why fewer teams run that combination, not that it isn't just as
>>>>>> good of a performer on the track.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In a competitive field which has weeded out the lower performing
>>>>>> ones in qualifying rounds, if 90% of the teams have a red car (eg
>>>>>> Honda) and the outcome is purely random chance, reversion to the
>>>>>> means means that there's a 90% probability that the winning car is
>>>>>> going to be red.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Same principle applies here:  if Kents really are objectively
>>>>>> inferior performers on the track, then the above 'random chance'
>>>>>> doesn't apply and they wouldn't have placed high enough in the
>>>>>> prior elimination rounds to even appear as 5% of the field in the
>>>>>> finals.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OTOH, when they are objectively even on the track, then their
>>>>>> representation in the final playoff field should be similar to
>>>>>> what % of the total population of competitive cars are fielded, no
>>>>>> matter if that's 10%, 50% or 90%.  Ditto for Honda.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are
>>>>>>> more than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major
>>>>>>> traits of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of
>>>>>>> the narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit being
>>>>>>> wrong, or that the other person who disagrees with you is right.
>>>>>>> Such people are also totally blind to their disorder.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Speaking of disorders, the above is pretty basic statistics when
>>>>>> examining factors within populations:  why did you miss it so badly?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -hh
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for validating all my arguments. There are so few Kents in
>>>>> the runoffs because the Kent-powered car are either so inferior
>>>>> that there are few left or if their are many they don't perform
>>>>> well enough to make the Runoffs.
>>>>
>>>> Way to misunderstand every argument he made, Asshole.
>>>
>>>
>>> Unsurprising that Tommy believed I was affirming him, not debunking him.
>>>
>>>> Are you sure you have a Ph.D.?
>>>
>>> If he did, it wasn't in anything STEM which required mathematics.
>>>
>>>
>>> -hh
>>>
>>
>> HH, I do know math and stats. The fact that there are so few Kent cars
>> that make the Runoffs and that in general they finish poorly says they
>> are not competitive at this level. There are statistical outliers in
>> the last 2 years. Results:
>
> You're assuming that correlation is causation, Liarboy.
>
>>
>> 2024 - 1 car finished 8th, 13 cars running
>> 2023 - 1 Kent (won the race), 8 cars running
>> 2022 - 2 Kents finished 3rd and 12th, 13 cars running
>> 2021 - 4 Kents finished 16th, 18th, 19th and 21st, 22 cars running
>> 2020 - 3 Kents finished 11th, 12th and 14th, 14 cars running
>> 2019 - 4 Kents finished 3rd, 9th and 13th, 14 cars running
>> 2018 - 3 Kents finished 14th, 17th, and 22nd, 22 cars running
>> 2017 - 9 Kents finished 10th, 20th, 23rd. The other 6 were DNF, 26 of
>> 36 cars were running at the finish
>>
>>
>> Why so few Kents? Two possible explanations:
>>
>> 1. There are few Kents relative to Hondas in the population, or
>> 2. The population of Kents is sufficient to support more entries, but
>> few can qualify.
>
> 3. The kinds of people who GO to the Runoffs can afford to convert to
> Honda.
>
>>
>> If there are few Kents in the population or the Kents are not good
>> enough to qualify does not matter. In any event, Kent participation
>> and results says the engine is not competitive at this level. But the
>> outliers?
>>
>> Why the outliers? As Alan has stated, if you spend enough money and
>> effort tuning the Kent it can run with the de-rated Hondas. But that
>> makes those owners that do spend lavishly unrepresentative of the
>> general Kent owner population. Which is why we see the typical Kent
>> finishs well off the podium.
>>
>> I stand corrected on a statement I made about the SCCA F1600 race
>> series. Honda engines are allowed. Actually the Honda dominates.
>> Established in 2011, a Kent won the first year title. The 2012-2023
>> winners all drove Honda-powered cars.
>
> Look at that:
>
> Opening your yap when you lacked anything resembling a clue...
>
> ...again.
>
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F1600_Championship_Series
>>
>> If you look at the series' track records they are dominated by Honda-
>> powered cars.
>>
>> https://www.racefrp.com/track-records
>>
>> Now, explain all that please.
> Hondas offer advantages ASIDE from speed ON THE TRACK.

On 2024-10-15 12:21, -hh wrote:
>>> I stand corrected on a statement I made about the SCCA F1600 race
>>> series. Honda engines are allowed. Actually the Honda dominates.
>>> Established in 2011, a Kent won the first year title. The 2012-2023
>>> winners all drove Honda-powered cars.
>>
>> Look at that:
>>
>> Opening your yap when you lacked anything resembling a clue...
>>
>> ...again.
>>
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F1600_Championship_Series
>>>
>>> If you look at the series' track records they are dominated by Honda-
>>> powered cars.
>>>
>>> https://www.racefrp.com/track-records
>>>
>>> Now, explain all that please.
>> Hondas offer advantages ASIDE from speed ON THE TRACK.
>
> Precisely. To summarily oversimplify, Honda has a *logistical* advantage
> off the track, not -- as Tommy has claimed -- an advantage on track.

Yup!

All of which I had to explain to him, and which he's tried to turn
around can parrot back to me as if he'd made some great revelation.

:-)

On 10/15/2024 12:21 PM, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-10-15 08:05, Tom Elam wrote:
>> On 10/11/2024 7:38 AM, -hh wrote:
>>> On 10/11/24 1:59 AM, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-10-10 20:17, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>> On 10/10/2024 5:14 PM, -hh wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/10/24 4:30 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...ON THE TRACK:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/365/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So why is the field mostly Hondas?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> more profitable things.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And, gee, what do you know?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The "uncompetitive" Kent...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Who'd have thought it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Really?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results,
>>>>>>>>>>> 1st in Provisional Results
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR
>>>>>>>>>>> 6.11.1.D,
>>>>>>>>>>> Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule
>>>>>>>>>> infraction involved...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating.
>>>>>>>>> You said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
>>>>>>>>> the when confronted with the truth changed it to "could have
>>>>>>>>> won", Liarboy. So typical of you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have
>>>>>>>> been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that
>>>>>>>> he moved to aggressively to defend his position, and having seen
>>>>>>>> the video, that's certainly true. But your claim has always been
>>>>>>>> that the Ford can't be competitive with the Honda and there's no
>>>>>>>> way that can be true if a Ford can be in the lead on the last
>>>>>>>> lap of the race.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
>>>>>>> won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one
>>>>>>> race I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race.
>>>>>>> That is not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking
>>>>>>> another driver. Had he not done so he might have not placed first
>>>>>>> in the provisional standings. In other words, he cheated the
>>>>>>> other driver out of an opportunity to pass and was appropriately
>>>>>>> penalized. Had he followed the rules he very likely would not
>>>>>>> have even won a provisional first.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Such rule infractions often have a big old dose of grey.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have
>>>>>>> been VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If
>>>>>>> they were competitive on performance and cost there would be
>>>>>>> more. If the Kent was a better engine overall on performance and
>>>>>>> cost the Kent would dominate. Even you agree. After all you
>>>>>>> bought a Honda- powered car, Liarboy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately, it doesn't really matter if its one team or a dozen
>>>>>> teams that get to the final rounds:  it is as if you're trying to
>>>>>> claim that the baseball team that loses in the World Series must
>>>>>> "suck" because they didn't win in the final round.  Sorry, but
>>>>>> they had to have beaten a lot of other teams before they got to
>>>>>> the final rounds.  Point is that the mere presence of a Kent in
>>>>>> the finals indicates that the Formula organizers have done a good
>>>>>> job in balancing their index of performance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
>>>>>>> profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not
>>>>>>> competitive when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the
>>>>>>> money on the Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a
>>>>>>> consistent basis? YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so
>>>>>>> scarce in the Runoffs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, that's trying to incorrectly use a statistical bias to make an
>>>>>> invalid claim:  that a Kent requires higher maintenance explains
>>>>>> why fewer teams run that combination, not that it isn't just as
>>>>>> good of a performer on the track.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In a competitive field which has weeded out the lower performing
>>>>>> ones in qualifying rounds, if 90% of the teams have a red car (eg
>>>>>> Honda) and the outcome is purely random chance, reversion to the
>>>>>> means means that there's a 90% probability that the winning car is
>>>>>> going to be red.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Same principle applies here:  if Kents really are objectively
>>>>>> inferior performers on the track, then the above 'random chance'
>>>>>> doesn't apply and they wouldn't have placed high enough in the
>>>>>> prior elimination rounds to even appear as 5% of the field in the
>>>>>> finals.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OTOH, when they are objectively even on the track, then their
>>>>>> representation in the final playoff field should be similar to
>>>>>> what % of the total population of competitive cars are fielded, no
>>>>>> matter if that's 10%, 50% or 90%.  Ditto for Honda.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are
>>>>>>> more than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major
>>>>>>> traits of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of
>>>>>>> the narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit being
>>>>>>> wrong, or that the other person who disagrees with you is right.
>>>>>>> Such people are also totally blind to their disorder.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Speaking of disorders, the above is pretty basic statistics when
>>>>>> examining factors within populations:  why did you miss it so badly?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -hh
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for validating all my arguments. There are so few Kents in
>>>>> the runoffs because the Kent-powered car are either so inferior
>>>>> that there are few left or if their are many they don't perform
>>>>> well enough to make the Runoffs.
>>>>
>>>> Way to misunderstand every argument he made, Asshole.
>>>
>>>
>>> Unsurprising that Tommy believed I was affirming him, not debunking him.
>>>
>>>> Are you sure you have a Ph.D.?
>>>
>>> If he did, it wasn't in anything STEM which required mathematics.
>>>
>>>
>>> -hh
>>>
>>
>> HH, I do know math and stats. The fact that there are so few Kent cars
>> that make the Runoffs and that in general they finish poorly says they
>> are not competitive at this level. There are statistical outliers in
>> the last 2 years. Results:
>
> You're assuming that correlation is causation, Liarboy.
>
>>
>> 2024 - 1 car finished 8th, 13 cars running
>> 2023 - 1 Kent (won the race), 8 cars running
>> 2022 - 2 Kents finished 3rd and 12th, 13 cars running
>> 2021 - 4 Kents finished 16th, 18th, 19th and 21st, 22 cars running
>> 2020 - 3 Kents finished 11th, 12th and 14th, 14 cars running
>> 2019 - 4 Kents finished 3rd, 9th and 13th, 14 cars running
>> 2018 - 3 Kents finished 14th, 17th, and 22nd, 22 cars running
>> 2017 - 9 Kents finished 10th, 20th, 23rd. The other 6 were DNF, 26 of
>> 36 cars were running at the finish
>>
>>
>> Why so few Kents? Two possible explanations:
>>
>> 1. There are few Kents relative to Hondas in the population, or
>> 2. The population of Kents is sufficient to support more entries, but
>> few can qualify.
>
> 3. The kinds of people who GO to the Runoffs can afford to convert to
> Honda.
>
>>
>> If there are few Kents in the population or the Kents are not good
>> enough to qualify does not matter. In any event, Kent participation
>> and results says the engine is not competitive at this level. But the
>> outliers?
>>
>> Why the outliers? As Alan has stated, if you spend enough money and
>> effort tuning the Kent it can run with the de-rated Hondas. But that
>> makes those owners that do spend lavishly unrepresentative of the
>> general Kent owner population. Which is why we see the typical Kent
>> finishs well off the podium.
>>
>> I stand corrected on a statement I made about the SCCA F1600 race
>> series. Honda engines are allowed. Actually the Honda dominates.
>> Established in 2011, a Kent won the first year title. The 2012-2023
>> winners all drove Honda-powered cars.
>
> Look at that:
>
> Opening your yap when you lacked anything resembling a clue...
>
> ...again.
>
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F1600_Championship_Series
>>
>> If you look at the series' track records they are dominated by Honda-
>> powered cars.
>>
>> https://www.racefrp.com/track-records
>>
>> Now, explain all that please.
> Hondas offer advantages ASIDE from speed ON THE TRACK.

On 10/15/2024 12:23 PM, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-10-15 08:09, Tom Elam wrote:
>> On 10/12/2024 11:46 AM, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-10-12 04:36, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>> On 10/11/2024 2:17 AM, Alan wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-10-10 17:46, Alan wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 13:30, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...ON THE TRACK:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/365/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So why is the field mostly Hondas?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> more profitable things.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And, gee, what do you know?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The "uncompetitive" Kent...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Who'd have thought it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Really?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results,
>>>>>>>>>>> 1st in Provisional Results
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR
>>>>>>>>>>> 6.11.1.D,
>>>>>>>>>>> Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule
>>>>>>>>>> infraction involved...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating.
>>>>>>>>> You said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
>>>>>>>>> the when confronted with the truth changed it to "could have
>>>>>>>>> won", Liarboy. So typical of you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have
>>>>>>>> been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that
>>>>>>>> he moved to aggressively to defend his position, and having seen
>>>>>>>> the video, that's certainly true. But your claim has always been
>>>>>>>> that the Ford can't be competitive with the Honda and there's no
>>>>>>>> way that can be true if a Ford can be in the lead on the last
>>>>>>>> lap of the race.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
>>>>>>> won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one
>>>>>>> race I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race.
>>>>>>> That is not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking
>>>>>>> another driver. Had he not done so he might have not placed first
>>>>>>> in the provisional standings. In other words, he cheated the
>>>>>>> other driver out of an opportunity to pass and was appropriately
>>>>>>> penalized. Had he followed the rules he very likely would not
>>>>>>> have even won a provisional first.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have
>>>>>>> been VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If
>>>>>>> they were competitive on performance and cost there would be
>>>>>>> more. If the Kent was a better engine overall on performance and
>>>>>>> cost the Kent would dominate. Even you agree. After all you
>>>>>>> bought a Honda- powered car, Liarboy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
>>>>>>> profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not
>>>>>>> competitive when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the
>>>>>>> money on the Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a
>>>>>>> consistent basis? YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so
>>>>>>> scarce in the Runoffs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are
>>>>>>> more than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major
>>>>>>> traits of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of
>>>>>>> the narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit being
>>>>>>> wrong, or that the other person who disagrees with you is right.
>>>>>>> Such people are also totally blind to their disorder.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just for absolute clarity, Liarboy:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I posted about the Runoffs win at 16:20PDT on October 4...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...and the official results weren't posted until 17:00 (Wisconsin
>>>>>> time presumably)...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...on October 5.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just another example of your careful understanding of the
>>>>>> situation, hmmm?
>>>>>
>>>>> <crickets.wav>
>>>>
>>>> Competition weeds out the weak - individuals, companies, entire
>>>> species, and race car engines. HH has confused cause and effect. The
>>>> cause of so few Kents at this level of competition is that all
>>>> things considered they are not competitive. If the Kent is, all
>>>> things considered, a more competitive engine than the Honda, there
>>>> would be a lot more entered. The Runoffs FF engine market has for
>>>> years been dominated by Honda. Prove me wrong.
>>>
>>> I don't HAVE to "prove" you wrong, you mendacious asshole.
>>>
>>> You are literally parroting back to me what I explained to you when
>>> you tried to claim that using a Honda made the car faster...
>>>
>>> ...ON THE TRACK,
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Alan, you were in such a rush to brag about that outcome you did not
>>>> even wait for the official results. Then after they were posted you
>>>> never corrected your post. Liar either way. Yes, it was a case of
>>>> cheating. That driver was not allowing faster cars to pass. Do you
>>>> understand that the fact that he had to do that meant under the
>>>> rules he illegally placed first? Or that other cars were faster?
>>>
>>> I only just discovered the the fact a couple of days ago.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I never claimed that a Kent can't win a race. I'm looking at FF
>>>> engine choices. Can the Kent compete straight-up against the Honda?
>>>> Interesting question, no?
>>>
>>> What you claimed (and I have the receipts) is that a Honda was faster...
>>>
>>> ...ON THE TRACK.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> In fact, in 2011 SCCA established Formula 1600, limited to the Kent
>>>> engine cars. These cars are eligible for FF races too. Do they show
>>>> up at Runoffs? Yes. Likely only the best do that. Did any show up
>>>> this year? Just one. So why do we now have a class limited to the
>>>> Kent? Why not just one class?
>>>>
>>>
>>> And where did you pull this revelation from, Liarboy?
>>>
>>> Because it is absolutely not true:
>>>
>>> 'FORMULA
>>>
>>> The eight formula classes are all single-seat, open wheel racecars.
>>> They are built to detailed specifications for weight, size and engine
>>> displacement. There are incredible power to weight ratios in each
>>> class. The classes in order of fastest to slowest are: Formula
>>> Atlantic® (FA), Formula 1000 (FB), Formula SCCA® (FE), Formula
>>> Continental® (FC), Formula Mazda (FM), Formula F (FF), Formula 500
>>> (F500) and Formula Vee® (FV).'
>>>
>>> <https://www.scca.com/pages/car-classifications-and-groups>
>>>
>>> There is no SCCA class called "Formula 1600". There IS a race series
>>> called "F1600" which was created by the SCCA in 2011 as a
>>> professional series for Formula F cars.
>>>
>>> But the cars are run under precisely the same rules as the SCCA's
>>> amateur series. Including the legality of the Honda.
>>>
>>> My guess is that you saw the same, and simply assumed that since
>>> there was "1600" in the name, it must obviously have meant the
>>> 1,600cc Kent engine and not the 1,500cc Honda.
>>>
>>> For a Ph.D., you really seem to lack the ability to do diligent
>>> research, don't you?
>>>
>>>> In fact, over in England the Brands Hatch Formula Ford Festival is
>>>> restricted to Kent engines. https://www.brandshatch.co.uk/2024/
>>>> october/ formula-ford-festival
>>>>
>>>> Why is that? Why not allow Honda engines to compete too? What are
>>>> they afraid of?
>>>
>>> They simply went a different way, Liarboy.
>>>
>>> In the US, there was a problem because the number of engine blocks
>>> for building Kent engines was drying up. And because Ford wasn't
>>> interested in doing anything to alleviate the situation, an engine
>>> builder (Quicksilver in Maryland) came up with a solution to the
>>> problem. They adapted the Honda Fit 1500cc engine to use in place of
>>> the Kent, because (most importantly) it was physically small enough
>>> that it would fit in the engine bays of most cars built for the Kent
>>> even after adding an adapter plate between the engine and bellhousing
>>> (otherwise the bolt holes on each wouldn't line up). Then the
>>> carefully programmed an ECU and included a restrictor in what would
>>> otherwise have been a 50mm throttle body, and after starting with too
>>> small a size, adjusted it upward until they landed on a 30.5mm
>>> restrictor to equalize the Honda with the Kent.
>>>
>>> In the UK, they addressed the issue of the drying up of Kent engines
>>> earlier, and created a version of Formula Ford using Ford's Zetec
>>> engine in 1993, and then later switching to the Ford Duratec engine
>>> for 2006.
>>>
>>> But there was no attempt made to equalize the performance of the two,
>>> but also no need for them to build a version with a Honda engine.
>>>
>>> So for the years 1993 to 2005, the overall Formula Ford Festival was
>>> using a Zetec engine, and from 2006 to 2012 it was using the Duratec,
>>> while they award a separate for the Kent-powered cars for some of
>>> those years.
>>>
>>> And in years 2009 to 2012, they awarded all three engines separately.
>>>
>>> But you aren't even really aware that there are differences between
>>> the classes called "Formula Ford" in different parts of the world,
>>> are you?
>>>
>>
>> Yes, I am aware. I stand corrected when I stated that F1600 does not
>> allow the Honda engine. Do I ever! The Honda dominates F1600, having
>> won every season championship since 2012.
>
> I notice that you don't acknowledge your bullshit about FF in the UK.

On 2024-10-24 15:29, Tom Elam wrote:
> On 10/15/2024 12:21 PM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-10-15 08:05, Tom Elam wrote:
>>> On 10/11/2024 7:38 AM, -hh wrote:
>>>> On 10/11/24 1:59 AM, Alan wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-10-10 20:17, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/10/2024 5:14 PM, -hh wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/10/24 4:30 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...ON THE TRACK:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/365/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So why is the field mostly Hondas?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more profitable things.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, gee, what do you know?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "uncompetitive" Kent...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who'd have thought it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Really?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1st in Provisional Results
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR
>>>>>>>>>>>> 6.11.1.D,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule
>>>>>>>>>>> infraction involved...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating.
>>>>>>>>>> You said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
>>>>>>>>>> the when confronted with the truth changed it to "could have
>>>>>>>>>> won", Liarboy. So typical of you.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have
>>>>>>>>> been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that
>>>>>>>>> he moved to aggressively to defend his position, and having
>>>>>>>>> seen the video, that's certainly true. But your claim has
>>>>>>>>> always been that the Ford can't be competitive with the Honda
>>>>>>>>> and there's no way that can be true if a Ford can be in the
>>>>>>>>> lead on the last lap of the race.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
>>>>>>>> won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one
>>>>>>>> race I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the
>>>>>>>> race. That is not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking
>>>>>>>> another driver. Had he not done so he might have not placed
>>>>>>>> first in the provisional standings. In other words, he cheated
>>>>>>>> the other driver out of an opportunity to pass and was
>>>>>>>> appropriately penalized. Had he followed the rules he very
>>>>>>>> likely would not have even won a provisional first.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Such rule infractions often have a big old dose of grey.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have
>>>>>>>> been VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If
>>>>>>>> they were competitive on performance and cost there would be
>>>>>>>> more. If the Kent was a better engine overall on performance and
>>>>>>>> cost the Kent would dominate. Even you agree. After all you
>>>>>>>> bought a Honda- powered car, Liarboy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Unfortunately, it doesn't really matter if its one team or a
>>>>>>> dozen teams that get to the final rounds:  it is as if you're
>>>>>>> trying to claim that the baseball team that loses in the World
>>>>>>> Series must "suck" because they didn't win in the final round.
>>>>>>> Sorry, but they had to have beaten a lot of other teams before
>>>>>>> they got to the final rounds.  Point is that the mere presence of
>>>>>>> a Kent in the finals indicates that the Formula organizers have
>>>>>>> done a good job in balancing their index of performance.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
>>>>>>>> profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not
>>>>>>>> competitive when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the
>>>>>>>> money on the Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a
>>>>>>>> consistent basis? YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so
>>>>>>>> scarce in the Runoffs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, that's trying to incorrectly use a statistical bias to make
>>>>>>> an invalid claim:  that a Kent requires higher maintenance
>>>>>>> explains why fewer teams run that combination, not that it isn't
>>>>>>> just as good of a performer on the track.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In a competitive field which has weeded out the lower performing
>>>>>>> ones in qualifying rounds, if 90% of the teams have a red car (eg
>>>>>>> Honda) and the outcome is purely random chance, reversion to the
>>>>>>> means means that there's a 90% probability that the winning car
>>>>>>> is going to be red.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Same principle applies here:  if Kents really are objectively
>>>>>>> inferior performers on the track, then the above 'random chance'
>>>>>>> doesn't apply and they wouldn't have placed high enough in the
>>>>>>> prior elimination rounds to even appear as 5% of the field in the
>>>>>>> finals.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OTOH, when they are objectively even on the track, then their
>>>>>>> representation in the final playoff field should be similar to
>>>>>>> what % of the total population of competitive cars are fielded,
>>>>>>> no matter if that's 10%, 50% or 90%.  Ditto for Honda.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are
>>>>>>>> more than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good.
>>>>>>>> Major traits of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another
>>>>>>>> trait of the narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit
>>>>>>>> being wrong, or that the other person who disagrees with you is
>>>>>>>> right. Such people are also totally blind to their disorder.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Speaking of disorders, the above is pretty basic statistics when
>>>>>>> examining factors within populations:  why did you miss it so badly?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -hh
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for validating all my arguments. There are so few Kents in
>>>>>> the runoffs because the Kent-powered car are either so inferior
>>>>>> that there are few left or if their are many they don't perform
>>>>>> well enough to make the Runoffs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Way to misunderstand every argument he made, Asshole.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Unsurprising that Tommy believed I was affirming him, not debunking
>>>> him.
>>>>
>>>>> Are you sure you have a Ph.D.?
>>>>
>>>> If he did, it wasn't in anything STEM which required mathematics.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -hh
>>>>
>>>
>>> HH, I do know math and stats. The fact that there are so few Kent
>>> cars that make the Runoffs and that in general they finish poorly
>>> says they are not competitive at this level. There are statistical
>>> outliers in the last 2 years. Results:
>>
>> You're assuming that correlation is causation, Liarboy.
>>
>>>
>>> 2024 - 1 car finished 8th, 13 cars running
>>> 2023 - 1 Kent (won the race), 8 cars running
>>> 2022 - 2 Kents finished 3rd and 12th, 13 cars running
>>> 2021 - 4 Kents finished 16th, 18th, 19th and 21st, 22 cars running
>>> 2020 - 3 Kents finished 11th, 12th and 14th, 14 cars running
>>> 2019 - 4 Kents finished 3rd, 9th and 13th, 14 cars running
>>> 2018 - 3 Kents finished 14th, 17th, and 22nd, 22 cars running
>>> 2017 - 9 Kents finished 10th, 20th, 23rd. The other 6 were DNF, 26 of
>>> 36 cars were running at the finish
>>>
>>>
>>> Why so few Kents? Two possible explanations:
>>>
>>> 1. There are few Kents relative to Hondas in the population, or
>>> 2. The population of Kents is sufficient to support more entries, but
>>> few can qualify.
>>
>> 3. The kinds of people who GO to the Runoffs can afford to convert to
>> Honda.
>>
>>>
>>> If there are few Kents in the population or the Kents are not good
>>> enough to qualify does not matter. In any event, Kent participation
>>> and results says the engine is not competitive at this level. But the
>>> outliers?
>>>
>>> Why the outliers? As Alan has stated, if you spend enough money and
>>> effort tuning the Kent it can run with the de-rated Hondas. But that
>>> makes those owners that do spend lavishly unrepresentative of the
>>> general Kent owner population. Which is why we see the typical Kent
>>> finishs well off the podium.
>>>
>>> I stand corrected on a statement I made about the SCCA F1600 race
>>> series. Honda engines are allowed. Actually the Honda dominates.
>>> Established in 2011, a Kent won the first year title. The 2012-2023
>>> winners all drove Honda-powered cars.
>>
>> Look at that:
>>
>> Opening your yap when you lacked anything resembling a clue...
>>
>> ...again.
>>
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F1600_Championship_Series
>>>
>>> If you look at the series' track records they are dominated by Honda-
>>> powered cars.
>>>
>>> https://www.racefrp.com/track-records
>>>
>>> Now, explain all that please.
>> Hondas offer advantages ASIDE from speed ON THE TRACK.
>
> Alan, you have stated that to be competitive with a Kent engine requires
> an expert engine builder/tuner and that is expensive. Now you are saying
> the Honda, which you bought because it requires LESS maintenance, is
> more expensive.

On 2024-10-24 15:38, Tom Elam wrote:
> On 10/15/2024 12:23 PM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-10-15 08:09, Tom Elam wrote:
>>> On 10/12/2024 11:46 AM, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-10-12 04:36, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>> On 10/11/2024 2:17 AM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 17:46, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 13:30, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...ON THE TRACK:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/365/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So why is the field mostly Hondas?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more profitable things.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, gee, what do you know?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "uncompetitive" Kent...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who'd have thought it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Really?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1st in Provisional Results
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR
>>>>>>>>>>>> 6.11.1.D,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule
>>>>>>>>>>> infraction involved...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating.
>>>>>>>>>> You said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
>>>>>>>>>> the when confronted with the truth changed it to "could have
>>>>>>>>>> won", Liarboy. So typical of you.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have
>>>>>>>>> been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that
>>>>>>>>> he moved to aggressively to defend his position, and having
>>>>>>>>> seen the video, that's certainly true. But your claim has
>>>>>>>>> always been that the Ford can't be competitive with the Honda
>>>>>>>>> and there's no way that can be true if a Ford can be in the
>>>>>>>>> lead on the last lap of the race.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
>>>>>>>> won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one
>>>>>>>> race I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the
>>>>>>>> race. That is not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking
>>>>>>>> another driver. Had he not done so he might have not placed
>>>>>>>> first in the provisional standings. In other words, he cheated
>>>>>>>> the other driver out of an opportunity to pass and was
>>>>>>>> appropriately penalized. Had he followed the rules he very
>>>>>>>> likely would not have even won a provisional first.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have
>>>>>>>> been VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If
>>>>>>>> they were competitive on performance and cost there would be
>>>>>>>> more. If the Kent was a better engine overall on performance and
>>>>>>>> cost the Kent would dominate. Even you agree. After all you
>>>>>>>> bought a Honda- powered car, Liarboy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
>>>>>>>> profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not
>>>>>>>> competitive when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the
>>>>>>>> money on the Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a
>>>>>>>> consistent basis? YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so
>>>>>>>> scarce in the Runoffs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are
>>>>>>>> more than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good.
>>>>>>>> Major traits of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another
>>>>>>>> trait of the narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit
>>>>>>>> being wrong, or that the other person who disagrees with you is
>>>>>>>> right. Such people are also totally blind to their disorder.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just for absolute clarity, Liarboy:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I posted about the Runoffs win at 16:20PDT on October 4...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...and the official results weren't posted until 17:00 (Wisconsin
>>>>>>> time presumably)...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...on October 5.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just another example of your careful understanding of the
>>>>>>> situation, hmmm?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <crickets.wav>
>>>>>
>>>>> Competition weeds out the weak - individuals, companies, entire
>>>>> species, and race car engines. HH has confused cause and effect.
>>>>> The cause of so few Kents at this level of competition is that all
>>>>> things considered they are not competitive. If the Kent is, all
>>>>> things considered, a more competitive engine than the Honda, there
>>>>> would be a lot more entered. The Runoffs FF engine market has for
>>>>> years been dominated by Honda. Prove me wrong.
>>>>
>>>> I don't HAVE to "prove" you wrong, you mendacious asshole.
>>>>
>>>> You are literally parroting back to me what I explained to you when
>>>> you tried to claim that using a Honda made the car faster...
>>>>
>>>> ...ON THE TRACK,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Alan, you were in such a rush to brag about that outcome you did
>>>>> not even wait for the official results. Then after they were posted
>>>>> you never corrected your post. Liar either way. Yes, it was a case
>>>>> of cheating. That driver was not allowing faster cars to pass. Do
>>>>> you understand that the fact that he had to do that meant under the
>>>>> rules he illegally placed first? Or that other cars were faster?
>>>>
>>>> I only just discovered the the fact a couple of days ago.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I never claimed that a Kent can't win a race. I'm looking at FF
>>>>> engine choices. Can the Kent compete straight-up against the Honda?
>>>>> Interesting question, no?
>>>>
>>>> What you claimed (and I have the receipts) is that a Honda was
>>>> faster...
>>>>
>>>> ...ON THE TRACK.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In fact, in 2011 SCCA established Formula 1600, limited to the Kent
>>>>> engine cars. These cars are eligible for FF races too. Do they show
>>>>> up at Runoffs? Yes. Likely only the best do that. Did any show up
>>>>> this year? Just one. So why do we now have a class limited to the
>>>>> Kent? Why not just one class?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And where did you pull this revelation from, Liarboy?
>>>>
>>>> Because it is absolutely not true:
>>>>
>>>> 'FORMULA
>>>>
>>>> The eight formula classes are all single-seat, open wheel racecars.
>>>> They are built to detailed specifications for weight, size and
>>>> engine displacement. There are incredible power to weight ratios in
>>>> each class. The classes in order of fastest to slowest are: Formula
>>>> Atlantic® (FA), Formula 1000 (FB), Formula SCCA® (FE), Formula
>>>> Continental® (FC), Formula Mazda (FM), Formula F (FF), Formula 500
>>>> (F500) and Formula Vee® (FV).'
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.scca.com/pages/car-classifications-and-groups>
>>>>
>>>> There is no SCCA class called "Formula 1600". There IS a race series
>>>> called "F1600" which was created by the SCCA in 2011 as a
>>>> professional series for Formula F cars.
>>>>
>>>> But the cars are run under precisely the same rules as the SCCA's
>>>> amateur series. Including the legality of the Honda.
>>>>
>>>> My guess is that you saw the same, and simply assumed that since
>>>> there was "1600" in the name, it must obviously have meant the
>>>> 1,600cc Kent engine and not the 1,500cc Honda.
>>>>
>>>> For a Ph.D., you really seem to lack the ability to do diligent
>>>> research, don't you?
>>>>
>>>>> In fact, over in England the Brands Hatch Formula Ford Festival is
>>>>> restricted to Kent engines. https://www.brandshatch.co.uk/2024/
>>>>> october/ formula-ford-festival
>>>>>
>>>>> Why is that? Why not allow Honda engines to compete too? What are
>>>>> they afraid of?
>>>>
>>>> They simply went a different way, Liarboy.
>>>>
>>>> In the US, there was a problem because the number of engine blocks
>>>> for building Kent engines was drying up. And because Ford wasn't
>>>> interested in doing anything to alleviate the situation, an engine
>>>> builder (Quicksilver in Maryland) came up with a solution to the
>>>> problem. They adapted the Honda Fit 1500cc engine to use in place of
>>>> the Kent, because (most importantly) it was physically small enough
>>>> that it would fit in the engine bays of most cars built for the Kent
>>>> even after adding an adapter plate between the engine and
>>>> bellhousing (otherwise the bolt holes on each wouldn't line up).
>>>> Then the carefully programmed an ECU and included a restrictor in
>>>> what would otherwise have been a 50mm throttle body, and after
>>>> starting with too small a size, adjusted it upward until they landed
>>>> on a 30.5mm restrictor to equalize the Honda with the Kent.
>>>>
>>>> In the UK, they addressed the issue of the drying up of Kent engines
>>>> earlier, and created a version of Formula Ford using Ford's Zetec
>>>> engine in 1993, and then later switching to the Ford Duratec engine
>>>> for 2006.
>>>>
>>>> But there was no attempt made to equalize the performance of the
>>>> two, but also no need for them to build a version with a Honda engine.
>>>>
>>>> So for the years 1993 to 2005, the overall Formula Ford Festival was
>>>> using a Zetec engine, and from 2006 to 2012 it was using the
>>>> Duratec, while they award a separate for the Kent-powered cars for
>>>> some of those years.
>>>>
>>>> And in years 2009 to 2012, they awarded all three engines separately.
>>>>
>>>> But you aren't even really aware that there are differences between
>>>> the classes called "Formula Ford" in different parts of the world,
>>>> are you?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, I am aware. I stand corrected when I stated that F1600 does not
>>> allow the Honda engine. Do I ever! The Honda dominates F1600, having
>>> won every season championship since 2012.
>>
>> I notice that you don't acknowledge your bullshit about FF in the UK.
>
> What BS? The Brands Hatch FF event I refer to is Kent Ford engines only.
>
> Why not run against the Honda?

On 10/25/2024 4:30 AM, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-10-24 15:38, Tom Elam wrote:
>> On 10/15/2024 12:23 PM, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-10-15 08:09, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>> On 10/12/2024 11:46 AM, Alan wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-10-12 04:36, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/11/2024 2:17 AM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 17:46, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 13:30, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...ON THE TRACK:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2:22.733.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/365/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So why is the field mostly Hondas?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more profitable things.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, gee, what do you know?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "uncompetitive" Kent...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who'd have thought it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Really?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official
>>>>>>>>>>>>> results, 1st in Provisional Results
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM -
>>>>>>>>>>>>> GCR 6.11.1.D,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the
>>>>>>>>>>>> rule infraction involved...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is
>>>>>>>>>>> cheating. You said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in
>>>>>>>>>>> Formula F" the when confronted with the truth changed it to
>>>>>>>>>>> "could have won", Liarboy. So typical of you.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could
>>>>>>>>>> have been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled
>>>>>>>>>> that he moved to aggressively to defend his position, and
>>>>>>>>>> having seen the video, that's certainly true. But your claim
>>>>>>>>>> has always been that the Ford can't be competitive with the
>>>>>>>>>> Honda and there's no way that can be true if a Ford can be in
>>>>>>>>>> the lead on the last lap of the race.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
>>>>>>>>> won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one
>>>>>>>>> race I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the
>>>>>>>>> race. That is not true. He broke a rule by aggressively
>>>>>>>>> blocking another driver. Had he not done so he might have not
>>>>>>>>> placed first in the provisional standings. In other words, he
>>>>>>>>> cheated the other driver out of an opportunity to pass and was
>>>>>>>>> appropriately penalized. Had he followed the rules he very
>>>>>>>>> likely would not have even won a provisional first.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have
>>>>>>>>> been VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If
>>>>>>>>> they were competitive on performance and cost there would be
>>>>>>>>> more. If the Kent was a better engine overall on performance
>>>>>>>>> and cost the Kent would dominate. Even you agree. After all you
>>>>>>>>> bought a Honda- powered car, Liarboy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money
>>>>>>>>> spent
>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
>>>>>>>>> profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not
>>>>>>>>> competitive when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the
>>>>>>>>> money on the Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a
>>>>>>>>> consistent basis? YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so
>>>>>>>>> scarce in the Runoffs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are
>>>>>>>>> more than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good.
>>>>>>>>> Major traits of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another
>>>>>>>>> trait of the narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit
>>>>>>>>> being wrong, or that the other person who disagrees with you is
>>>>>>>>> right. Such people are also totally blind to their disorder.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just for absolute clarity, Liarboy:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I posted about the Runoffs win at 16:20PDT on October 4...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ...and the official results weren't posted until 17:00
>>>>>>>> (Wisconsin time presumably)...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ...on October 5.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just another example of your careful understanding of the
>>>>>>>> situation, hmmm?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <crickets.wav>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Competition weeds out the weak - individuals, companies, entire
>>>>>> species, and race car engines. HH has confused cause and effect.
>>>>>> The cause of so few Kents at this level of competition is that all
>>>>>> things considered they are not competitive. If the Kent is, all
>>>>>> things considered, a more competitive engine than the Honda, there
>>>>>> would be a lot more entered. The Runoffs FF engine market has for
>>>>>> years been dominated by Honda. Prove me wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't HAVE to "prove" you wrong, you mendacious asshole.
>>>>>
>>>>> You are literally parroting back to me what I explained to you when
>>>>> you tried to claim that using a Honda made the car faster...
>>>>>
>>>>> ...ON THE TRACK,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alan, you were in such a rush to brag about that outcome you did
>>>>>> not even wait for the official results. Then after they were
>>>>>> posted you never corrected your post. Liar either way. Yes, it was
>>>>>> a case of cheating. That driver was not allowing faster cars to
>>>>>> pass. Do you understand that the fact that he had to do that meant
>>>>>> under the rules he illegally placed first? Or that other cars were
>>>>>> faster?
>>>>>
>>>>> I only just discovered the the fact a couple of days ago.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I never claimed that a Kent can't win a race. I'm looking at FF
>>>>>> engine choices. Can the Kent compete straight-up against the
>>>>>> Honda? Interesting question, no?
>>>>>
>>>>> What you claimed (and I have the receipts) is that a Honda was
>>>>> faster...
>>>>>
>>>>> ...ON THE TRACK.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In fact, in 2011 SCCA established Formula 1600, limited to the
>>>>>> Kent engine cars. These cars are eligible for FF races too. Do
>>>>>> they show up at Runoffs? Yes. Likely only the best do that. Did
>>>>>> any show up this year? Just one. So why do we now have a class
>>>>>> limited to the Kent? Why not just one class?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And where did you pull this revelation from, Liarboy?
>>>>>
>>>>> Because it is absolutely not true:
>>>>>
>>>>> 'FORMULA
>>>>>
>>>>> The eight formula classes are all single-seat, open wheel racecars.
>>>>> They are built to detailed specifications for weight, size and
>>>>> engine displacement. There are incredible power to weight ratios in
>>>>> each class. The classes in order of fastest to slowest are: Formula
>>>>> Atlantic® (FA), Formula 1000 (FB), Formula SCCA® (FE), Formula
>>>>> Continental® (FC), Formula Mazda (FM), Formula F (FF), Formula 500
>>>>> (F500) and Formula Vee® (FV).'
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.scca.com/pages/car-classifications-and-groups>
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no SCCA class called "Formula 1600". There IS a race
>>>>> series called "F1600" which was created by the SCCA in 2011 as a
>>>>> professional series for Formula F cars.
>>>>>
>>>>> But the cars are run under precisely the same rules as the SCCA's
>>>>> amateur series. Including the legality of the Honda.
>>>>>
>>>>> My guess is that you saw the same, and simply assumed that since
>>>>> there was "1600" in the name, it must obviously have meant the
>>>>> 1,600cc Kent engine and not the 1,500cc Honda.
>>>>>
>>>>> For a Ph.D., you really seem to lack the ability to do diligent
>>>>> research, don't you?
>>>>>
>>>>>> In fact, over in England the Brands Hatch Formula Ford Festival is
>>>>>> restricted to Kent engines. https://www.brandshatch.co.uk/2024/
>>>>>> october/ formula-ford-festival
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why is that? Why not allow Honda engines to compete too? What are
>>>>>> they afraid of?
>>>>>
>>>>> They simply went a different way, Liarboy.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the US, there was a problem because the number of engine blocks
>>>>> for building Kent engines was drying up. And because Ford wasn't
>>>>> interested in doing anything to alleviate the situation, an engine
>>>>> builder (Quicksilver in Maryland) came up with a solution to the
>>>>> problem. They adapted the Honda Fit 1500cc engine to use in place
>>>>> of the Kent, because (most importantly) it was physically small
>>>>> enough that it would fit in the engine bays of most cars built for
>>>>> the Kent even after adding an adapter plate between the engine and
>>>>> bellhousing (otherwise the bolt holes on each wouldn't line up).
>>>>> Then the carefully programmed an ECU and included a restrictor in
>>>>> what would otherwise have been a 50mm throttle body, and after
>>>>> starting with too small a size, adjusted it upward until they
>>>>> landed on a 30.5mm restrictor to equalize the Honda with the Kent.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the UK, they addressed the issue of the drying up of Kent
>>>>> engines earlier, and created a version of Formula Ford using Ford's
>>>>> Zetec engine in 1993, and then later switching to the Ford Duratec
>>>>> engine for 2006.
>>>>>
>>>>> But there was no attempt made to equalize the performance of the
>>>>> two, but also no need for them to build a version with a Honda engine.
>>>>>
>>>>> So for the years 1993 to 2005, the overall Formula Ford Festival
>>>>> was using a Zetec engine, and from 2006 to 2012 it was using the
>>>>> Duratec, while they award a separate for the Kent-powered cars for
>>>>> some of those years.
>>>>>
>>>>> And in years 2009 to 2012, they awarded all three engines separately.
>>>>>
>>>>> But you aren't even really aware that there are differences between
>>>>> the classes called "Formula Ford" in different parts of the world,
>>>>> are you?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I am aware. I stand corrected when I stated that F1600 does not
>>>> allow the Honda engine. Do I ever! The Honda dominates F1600, having
>>>> won every season championship since 2012.
>>>
>>> I notice that you don't acknowledge your bullshit about FF in the UK.
>>
>> What BS? The Brands Hatch FF event I refer to is Kent Ford engines only.
>>
>> Why not run against the Honda?
>
>
> Because, you incredible ignoramus, the Honda was never added to the
> class in England.

On 2024-11-15 12:39, Tom Elam wrote:
> On 10/25/2024 4:30 AM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-10-24 15:38, Tom Elam wrote:
>>> On 10/15/2024 12:23 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-10-15 08:09, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>> On 10/12/2024 11:46 AM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-10-12 04:36, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/11/2024 2:17 AM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 17:46, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 13:30, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...ON THE TRACK:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in Wisconsin:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2:22.733.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/365/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ago!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So why is the field mostly Hondas?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on more profitable things.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, gee, what do you know?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "uncompetitive" Kent...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who'd have thought it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Really?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> results, 1st in Provisional Results
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GCR 6.11.1.D,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rule infraction involved...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is
>>>>>>>>>>>> cheating. You said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in
>>>>>>>>>>>> Formula F" the when confronted with the truth changed it to
>>>>>>>>>>>> "could have won", Liarboy. So typical of you.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could
>>>>>>>>>>> have been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA
>>>>>>>>>>> ruled that he moved to aggressively to defend his position,
>>>>>>>>>>> and having seen the video, that's certainly true. But your
>>>>>>>>>>> claim has always been that the Ford can't be competitive with
>>>>>>>>>>> the Honda and there's no way that can be true if a Ford can
>>>>>>>>>>> be in the lead on the last lap of the race.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
>>>>>>>>>> won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one
>>>>>>>>>> race I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the
>>>>>>>>>> race. That is not true. He broke a rule by aggressively
>>>>>>>>>> blocking another driver. Had he not done so he might have not
>>>>>>>>>> placed first in the provisional standings. In other words, he
>>>>>>>>>> cheated the other driver out of an opportunity to pass and was
>>>>>>>>>> appropriately penalized. Had he followed the rules he very
>>>>>>>>>> likely would not have even won a provisional first.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There
>>>>>>>>>> have been VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many
>>>>>>>>>> years. If they were competitive on performance and cost there
>>>>>>>>>> would be more. If the Kent was a better engine overall on
>>>>>>>>>> performance and cost the Kent would dominate. Even you agree.
>>>>>>>>>> After all you bought a Honda- powered car, Liarboy.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money
>>>>>>>>>> spent
>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
>>>>>>>>>> profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not
>>>>>>>>>> competitive when considering the overall metrics. Why spend
>>>>>>>>>> the money on the Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda
>>>>>>>>>> on a consistent basis? YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is
>>>>>>>>>> so scarce in the Runoffs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are
>>>>>>>>>> more than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good.
>>>>>>>>>> Major traits of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another
>>>>>>>>>> trait of the narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never
>>>>>>>>>> admit being wrong, or that the other person who disagrees with
>>>>>>>>>> you is right. Such people are also totally blind to their
>>>>>>>>>> disorder.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just for absolute clarity, Liarboy:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I posted about the Runoffs win at 16:20PDT on October 4...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ...and the official results weren't posted until 17:00
>>>>>>>>> (Wisconsin time presumably)...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ...on October 5.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just another example of your careful understanding of the
>>>>>>>>> situation, hmmm?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <crickets.wav>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Competition weeds out the weak - individuals, companies, entire
>>>>>>> species, and race car engines. HH has confused cause and effect.
>>>>>>> The cause of so few Kents at this level of competition is that
>>>>>>> all things considered they are not competitive. If the Kent is,
>>>>>>> all things considered, a more competitive engine than the Honda,
>>>>>>> there would be a lot more entered. The Runoffs FF engine market
>>>>>>> has for years been dominated by Honda. Prove me wrong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't HAVE to "prove" you wrong, you mendacious asshole.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are literally parroting back to me what I explained to you
>>>>>> when you tried to claim that using a Honda made the car faster...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...ON THE TRACK,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alan, you were in such a rush to brag about that outcome you did
>>>>>>> not even wait for the official results. Then after they were
>>>>>>> posted you never corrected your post. Liar either way. Yes, it
>>>>>>> was a case of cheating. That driver was not allowing faster cars
>>>>>>> to pass. Do you understand that the fact that he had to do that
>>>>>>> meant under the rules he illegally placed first? Or that other
>>>>>>> cars were faster?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I only just discovered the the fact a couple of days ago.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I never claimed that a Kent can't win a race. I'm looking at FF
>>>>>>> engine choices. Can the Kent compete straight-up against the
>>>>>>> Honda? Interesting question, no?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What you claimed (and I have the receipts) is that a Honda was
>>>>>> faster...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...ON THE TRACK.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In fact, in 2011 SCCA established Formula 1600, limited to the
>>>>>>> Kent engine cars. These cars are eligible for FF races too. Do
>>>>>>> they show up at Runoffs? Yes. Likely only the best do that. Did
>>>>>>> any show up this year? Just one. So why do we now have a class
>>>>>>> limited to the Kent? Why not just one class?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And where did you pull this revelation from, Liarboy?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because it is absolutely not true:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 'FORMULA
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The eight formula classes are all single-seat, open wheel
>>>>>> racecars. They are built to detailed specifications for weight,
>>>>>> size and engine displacement. There are incredible power to weight
>>>>>> ratios in each class. The classes in order of fastest to slowest
>>>>>> are: Formula Atlantic® (FA), Formula 1000 (FB), Formula SCCA®
>>>>>> (FE), Formula Continental® (FC), Formula Mazda (FM), Formula F
>>>>>> (FF), Formula 500 (F500) and Formula Vee® (FV).'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.scca.com/pages/car-classifications-and-groups>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no SCCA class called "Formula 1600". There IS a race
>>>>>> series called "F1600" which was created by the SCCA in 2011 as a
>>>>>> professional series for Formula F cars.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But the cars are run under precisely the same rules as the SCCA's
>>>>>> amateur series. Including the legality of the Honda.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My guess is that you saw the same, and simply assumed that since
>>>>>> there was "1600" in the name, it must obviously have meant the
>>>>>> 1,600cc Kent engine and not the 1,500cc Honda.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For a Ph.D., you really seem to lack the ability to do diligent
>>>>>> research, don't you?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In fact, over in England the Brands Hatch Formula Ford Festival
>>>>>>> is restricted to Kent engines. https://
>>>>>>> www.brandshatch.co.uk/2024/ october/ formula-ford-festival
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why is that? Why not allow Honda engines to compete too? What are
>>>>>>> they afraid of?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They simply went a different way, Liarboy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the US, there was a problem because the number of engine blocks
>>>>>> for building Kent engines was drying up. And because Ford wasn't
>>>>>> interested in doing anything to alleviate the situation, an engine
>>>>>> builder (Quicksilver in Maryland) came up with a solution to the
>>>>>> problem. They adapted the Honda Fit 1500cc engine to use in place
>>>>>> of the Kent, because (most importantly) it was physically small
>>>>>> enough that it would fit in the engine bays of most cars built for
>>>>>> the Kent even after adding an adapter plate between the engine and
>>>>>> bellhousing (otherwise the bolt holes on each wouldn't line up).
>>>>>> Then the carefully programmed an ECU and included a restrictor in
>>>>>> what would otherwise have been a 50mm throttle body, and after
>>>>>> starting with too small a size, adjusted it upward until they
>>>>>> landed on a 30.5mm restrictor to equalize the Honda with the Kent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the UK, they addressed the issue of the drying up of Kent
>>>>>> engines earlier, and created a version of Formula Ford using
>>>>>> Ford's Zetec engine in 1993, and then later switching to the Ford
>>>>>> Duratec engine for 2006.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But there was no attempt made to equalize the performance of the
>>>>>> two, but also no need for them to build a version with a Honda
>>>>>> engine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So for the years 1993 to 2005, the overall Formula Ford Festival
>>>>>> was using a Zetec engine, and from 2006 to 2012 it was using the
>>>>>> Duratec, while they award a separate for the Kent-powered cars for
>>>>>> some of those years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And in years 2009 to 2012, they awarded all three engines separately.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But you aren't even really aware that there are differences
>>>>>> between the classes called "Formula Ford" in different parts of
>>>>>> the world, are you?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I am aware. I stand corrected when I stated that F1600 does
>>>>> not allow the Honda engine. Do I ever! The Honda dominates F1600,
>>>>> having won every season championship since 2012.
>>>>
>>>> I notice that you don't acknowledge your bullshit about FF in the UK.
>>>
>>> What BS? The Brands Hatch FF event I refer to is Kent Ford engines only.
>>>
>>> Why not run against the Honda?
>>
>>
>> Because, you incredible ignoramus, the Honda was never added to the
>> class in England.
>
> Of course not, it would dominate just like it has in the U.S.!