On 7/16/24 9:14 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
> On 7/15/2024 3:34 PM, -hh wrote:
>> Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 7/10/2024 1:22 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-07-10 07:51, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>> On 7/6/2024 4:42 PM, -hh wrote:
>>>>>> On 7/5/24 2:19 PM, Tom Elam wrote (plus merged posts):
>>>>>>> On 6/28/2024 8:04 PM, -hh wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/28/24 11:10 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/27/2024 3:55 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-06-25 10:34, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Alan,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Last year, 2023, April-June, there 3 weekends, 9 races at SBBC.
>>>>>>>>>>> Total unique CW driver entries were 97, OW 37. These are typical
>>>>>>>>>>> for an entire season for 2021-2023. In April-June 2024 unique
>>>>>>>>>>> driver entries are 14 OW and 49 CW, about half prior years.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> These stats are from the SBBC season championship records.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Wow, quite the drop. What's going on, Alan?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And, BTW, you entered 11 out of a 71 2021-2024 races. None last
>>>>>>>>>>> year of course, but also none this year and 11 out of 34 in
>>>>>>>>>>> 2021-22. Have you retired? I thought you were looking forward to
>>>>>>>>>>> getting back this year. Not so much?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So great to see you taking such an interest in my life, Liarboy!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if I might take a little interest in yours.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Done much flying lately?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well, yes. Two very different flavors. Full scale last 6 months,
>>>>>>>>> 36 hours logged including 2 family visit trips to Georgia, some
>>>>>>>>> CAP hours, and just passed a VFR checkride. The Christmas return
>>>>>>>>> flight from Georgia was IFR all the way home and an instrument
>>>>>>>>> approach into Indy Metro.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Christmas of 2023, of course.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Now good for 2 another years on my BFR, taking me almost to my
>>>>>>>>> 80th birthday. At this time I am also IFR current and capable, but
>>>>>>>>> those are perishable skills. I'll be taking an IFR skills test
>>>>>>>>> checkride before the end of September.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> RC model flying has been active since the weather improved in
>>>>>>>>> April. Some of that is documented on my YouTube channel
>>>>>>>>> available at:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcvZXi-36GQkeHr0FdB4cTg
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My latest YT video is rendering as I write this. That one is on
>>>>>>>>> programming my 3 meter Fox sailplane for solo hand launch. It will
>>>>>>>>> be up on the channel by end of today.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tomorrow I am scheduled to go to the AMA annual Fun Fly in Muncie
>>>>>>>>> and do some instructing with beginning RC pilots. I also just
>>>>>>>>> passed my Part 107 Remote Pilot/commercial drone license FAA
>>>>>>>>> refresher, and good for another 2 on that front years too.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So yes, done a lot of flying. Some airline flying in the near
>>>>>>>>> future too!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Because even 36 hours droning along at a Cessna's 125mph cruising
>>>>>>>> speed is just 4500 miles: enough to cross the pond once...but not
>>>>>>>> back.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We will be flying to Vancouver next month to catch a train to
>>>>>>>>> Calgary then flying home from there. August takes us to France,
>>>>>>>>> Luxembourg and a Viking river cruise to Basel. Flying home from
>>>>>>>>> Zurich. Ten day trip in all. So still traveling too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oh, so now its a ten day trip for what previously was a twelve day
>>>>>>>> Paris-Rhine cruise claimed back in February?  /s
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How about you, doing any racing lately? I know the answer to that,
>>>>>>>>> at least for SBBC events. Null, zero, nada since 2022. Going
>>>>>>>>> anywhere outside Canada this year?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Life invariably takes different turns.  My last travel comment here
>>>>>>>> was in early 2023, that we were looking (in 2023) to be making up
>>>>>>>> for our CoVid travel lull, but that doesn't mean that it all went
>>>>>>>> as had been hoped for: indeed, it could have changed.  Cancelled
>>>>>>>> outright, or even perhaps upgraded to be in First Class instead of
>>>>>>>> Coach on all of that year's international flights! /s
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Same applies for 2024 as well, for life invariably throws curve
>>>>>>>> balls; this is why the advice was to 'do the hard stuff' while
>>>>>>>> one's body (& finances) are healthy enough to be still able to do
>>>>>>>> what one wishes. Otherwise, one can be pushing 80 and renting a car
>>>>>>>> is no longer trivial, so one can get increasingly constrained to
>>>>>>>> guided tours on cruise ships.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In any event, a week on the Rocky Mountaineer and the
>>>>>>>> aforementioned Rhine cruise sounds to be in the rough ballpark of
>>>>>>>> ($7500+air)/pp, so it does seem like Tommy is perhaps finally
>>>>>>>> breaking out of his prior fiscal constraint, as I'd long advised.
>>>>>>>> Yay, you!.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -hh
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ten was a wrong number for Europe. It IS 12 days plus 2 for to-from
>>>>>>> travel that I did not include in a prior post.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But also plus +3 days pre-tour in Paris, as you've mentioned before
>>>>>> and mentioned again below.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Canada trip is a package tour via a local company. It includes
>>>>>>> several side trips, most meals, air, and several nights in the
>>>>>>> Fairmont Banff Springs and others of similar quality prior to Banff
>>>>>>> Springs. Check the rates on that hotel. $11,990 for 2. Sadly, one of
>>>>>>> the people, a good friend at that, was scheduled to go but died very
>>>>>>> suddenly. The wife has to cancel. It may still be an open
>>>>>>> reservation for two. Interested? Starts July 20.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We've been meaning to get back to the Canadian Rockies, but that
>>>>>> start date hits a schedule conflict.  Plus we learned last month that
>>>>>> we're out of shape for any decent hiking in the Rockies (not that
>>>>>> this rail journey would really have much), so not enough pre-trip
>>>>>> prep time either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Europe trip including air is a bit over $10,000 plus 3 nights on
>>>>>>> our own in a Paris hotel at $300/night, plus meals, local
>>>>>>> transportation and sundries. Likely to also come to about $12,000.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Figured about that, as a cabin on Viking is ~$3800/pp on its own.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your $7,500 pp is spot-on but includes airfare.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As you know, there's several rail journey options to choose from, of
>>>>>> varying lengths; I'd conservatively parameterized to a higher end
>>>>>> tour than what you actually chose.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We also just this week scheduled a trip to Luddington MI to spend a
>>>>>>> week with some good friends at their cabin. I'll be flying us up
>>>>>>> there, only about $600 R/T for air plus taking them out to a VERY
>>>>>>> nice restaurant or two.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We also have the annual ski trip of course. 2024 is a bit of a
>>>>>>> splurge but not that different from many prior years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've not chatted skiing lately with a colleague who spends 2-3 weeks
>>>>>> in Vail each season to know current rates, but I'd expect that the
>>>>>> Epic is still just ~$1K/pp and that condo/AirBNB rates are quite
>>>>>> variable.  Even so, $10K probably covers ~3 weeks when driving.  So
>>>>>> without the ski trip, ballpark $25K for 2024, including the Florida
>>>>>> bit (next below):
>>>>>>
>>>>>> {merge}
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Second reply. I just updated the 2024 travel diary and forgot to
>>>>>>> include 2 January Florida weeks. We stayed with friends week 1, so
>>>>>>> that kept the cost down. I think the whole trip was only maybe $3-4k
>>>>>>> all-in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> {merge}
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Back again. FYI the club 182 cruises at 160+ mph, not 125.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So its an 5,760 miles upper limit.  That's still not enough to cross
>>>>>> the pond & back...and one still can't nap (safely) when at the
>>>>>> controls.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's a little over 2.5 hours including taxi time, with no headwind.
>>>>>>> Delta makes it in 1:30 of droning on in a B737 but them you have a
>>>>>> 1+  > hour drive to my sister's place in Woodstock, TSA hassles, ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TSA Pre makes airport security pretty trivial.  And since someone
>>>>>> else is driving, its easy to take a nap, watch a movie, read a
>>>>>> book...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ... and what do we do with all the Christmas presents in Cessna
>>>>>>> luggage compartment? 🙂
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have Amazon send them direct to final destination.  Or ship them out
>>>>>> in advance via FedEx, USPS, or UPS.  Or small gifts which fit easily
>>>>>> in one's pocket, and/or a small carry-on bag.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -hh
>>>>>
>>>>> I NEVER feel the need to nap when I'm in the aircraft left front seat.
>>>>> You have no clue, do you? Flying yourself is an exciting and engaging
>>>>> way to get there that adds a whole new dimension to a vacation. You
>>>>> will never experience that.
>>>>
>>>> Flying if done properly is utterly boring once you're in cruise.
>>>
>>> And your personal experience with pilot in command …
>>
>> Why is the goalpost set here by Tom as nothing short of “pilot in
>> charge”?
>> Be specific in trying to justify this.  Good luck!
>>
>>> …on long cross country trips is how many hours? Passengers are
>>> supposed to be bored. If they are not you are not a very good pilot.
>>
>> Particularly since this statement makes it clear that being a
>> passenger is
>> a valid experiential perspective to judge if a flight was “boring”
>> (uneventful) for those same passengers.
>>
>>
>>> Yet another Alan Baker lie based on zero personal experience.
>>
>> Ignoring Tommy’s fake qualifications requirement to include passenger BIS
>> hours, it’s certainly not a zero.  Likewise for other CSMA readers,
>> some of
>> which probably have more BIS miles than Tommy does…
>>
>>
>> -hh
>>
>
> You have no meaningful experience. You are just projecting to another
> based on your personal experience and preferences. You are not me.

On 7/16/24 9:20 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
> On 7/15/2024 1:53 PM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-07-15 10:47, Tom Elam wrote:
>>> On 7/10/2024 3:22 PM, -hh wrote:
>>>> On 7/10/24 10:51 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>> On 7/6/2024 4:42 PM, -hh wrote:
>>>>>> On 7/5/24 2:19 PM, Tom Elam wrote (plus merged posts):
>>>>>>> On 6/28/2024 8:04 PM, -hh wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/28/24 11:10 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/27/2024 3:55 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-06-25 10:34, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Alan,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Last year, 2023, April-June, there 3 weekends, 9 races at
>>>>>>>>>>> SBBC. Total unique CW driver entries were 97, OW 37. These
>>>>>>>>>>> are typical for an entire season for 2021-2023. In April-June
>>>>>>>>>>> 2024 unique driver entries are 14 OW and 49 CW, about half
>>>>>>>>>>> prior years.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> These stats are from the SBBC season championship records.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Wow, quite the drop. What's going on, Alan?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And, BTW, you entered 11 out of a 71 2021-2024 races. None
>>>>>>>>>>> last year of course, but also none this year and 11 out of 34
>>>>>>>>>>> in 2021-22. Have you retired? I thought you were looking
>>>>>>>>>>> forward to getting back this year. Not so much?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So great to see you taking such an interest in my life, Liarboy!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if I might take a little interest in yours.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Done much flying lately?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well, yes. Two very different flavors. Full scale last 6
>>>>>>>>> months, 36 hours logged including 2 family visit trips to
>>>>>>>>> Georgia, some CAP hours, and just passed a VFR checkride. The
>>>>>>>>> Christmas return flight from Georgia was IFR all the way home
>>>>>>>>> and an instrument approach into Indy Metro.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Christmas of 2023, of course.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Now good for 2 another years on my BFR, taking me almost to my
>>>>>>>>> 80th birthday. At this time I am also IFR current and capable,
>>>>>>>>> but those are perishable skills. I'll be taking an IFR skills
>>>>>>>>> test checkride before the end of September.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> RC model flying has been active since the weather improved in
>>>>>>>>> April. Some of that is documented on my YouTube channel
>>>>>>>>> available at:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcvZXi-36GQkeHr0FdB4cTg
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My latest YT video is rendering as I write this. That one is on
>>>>>>>>> programming my 3 meter Fox sailplane for solo hand launch. It
>>>>>>>>> will be up on the channel by end of today.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tomorrow I am scheduled to go to the AMA annual Fun Fly in
>>>>>>>>> Muncie and do some instructing with beginning RC pilots. I also
>>>>>>>>> just passed my Part 107 Remote Pilot/commercial drone license
>>>>>>>>> FAA refresher, and good for another 2 on that front years too.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So yes, done a lot of flying. Some airline flying in the near
>>>>>>>>> future too!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Because even 36 hours droning along at a Cessna's 125mph
>>>>>>>> cruising speed is just 4500 miles: enough to cross the pond
>>>>>>>> once...but not back.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We will be flying to Vancouver next month to catch a train to
>>>>>>>>> Calgary then flying home from there. August takes us to France,
>>>>>>>>> Luxembourg and a Viking river cruise to Basel. Flying home from
>>>>>>>>> Zurich. Ten day trip in all. So still traveling too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oh, so now its a ten day trip for what previously was a twelve
>>>>>>>> day Paris-Rhine cruise claimed back in February?  /s
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How about you, doing any racing lately? I know the answer to
>>>>>>>>> that, at least for SBBC events. Null, zero, nada since 2022.
>>>>>>>>> Going anywhere outside Canada this year?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Life invariably takes different turns.  My last travel comment
>>>>>>>> here was in early 2023, that we were looking (in 2023) to be
>>>>>>>> making up for our CoVid travel lull, but that doesn't mean that
>>>>>>>> it all went as had been hoped for: indeed, it could have
>>>>>>>> changed. Cancelled outright, or even perhaps upgraded to be in
>>>>>>>> First Class instead of Coach on all of that year's international
>>>>>>>> flights! /s
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Same applies for 2024 as well, for life invariably throws curve
>>>>>>>> balls; this is why the advice was to 'do the hard stuff' while
>>>>>>>> one's body (& finances) are healthy enough to be still able to
>>>>>>>> do what one wishes. Otherwise, one can be pushing 80 and renting
>>>>>>>> a car is no longer trivial, so one can get increasingly
>>>>>>>> constrained to guided tours on cruise ships.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In any event, a week on the Rocky Mountaineer and the
>>>>>>>> aforementioned Rhine cruise sounds to be in the rough ballpark
>>>>>>>> of ($7500+air)/pp, so it does seem like Tommy is perhaps finally
>>>>>>>> breaking out of his prior fiscal constraint, as I'd long
>>>>>>>> advised. Yay, you!.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -hh
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ten was a wrong number for Europe. It IS 12 days plus 2 for
>>>>>>> to-from travel that I did not include in a prior post.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But also plus +3 days pre-tour in Paris, as you've mentioned
>>>>>> before and mentioned again below.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Canada trip is a package tour via a local company. It
>>>>>>> includes several side trips, most meals, air, and several nights
>>>>>>> in the Fairmont Banff Springs and others of similar quality prior
>>>>>>> to Banff Springs. Check the rates on that hotel. $11,990 for 2.
>>>>>>> Sadly, one of the people, a good friend at that, was scheduled to
>>>>>>> go but died very suddenly. The wife has to cancel. It may still
>>>>>>> be an open reservation for two. Interested? Starts July 20.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We've been meaning to get back to the Canadian Rockies, but that
>>>>>> start date hits a schedule conflict.  Plus we learned last month
>>>>>> that we're out of shape for any decent hiking in the Rockies (not
>>>>>> that this rail journey would really have much), so not enough
>>>>>> pre-trip prep time either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Europe trip including air is a bit over $10,000 plus 3 nights
>>>>>>> on our own in a Paris hotel at $300/night, plus meals, local
>>>>>>> transportation and sundries. Likely to also come to about $12,000.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Figured about that, as a cabin on Viking is ~$3800/pp on its own.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your $7,500 pp is spot-on but includes airfare.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As you know, there's several rail journey options to choose from,
>>>>>> of varying lengths; I'd conservatively parameterized to a higher
>>>>>> end tour than what you actually chose.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We also just this week scheduled a trip to Luddington MI to spend
>>>>>>> a week with some good friends at their cabin. I'll be flying us
>>>>>>> up there, only about $600 R/T for air plus taking them out to a
>>>>>>> VERY nice restaurant or two.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We also have the annual ski trip of course. 2024 is a bit of a
>>>>>>> splurge but not that different from many prior years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've not chatted skiing lately with a colleague who spends 2-3
>>>>>> weeks in Vail each season to know current rates, but I'd expect
>>>>>> that the Epic is still just ~$1K/pp and that condo/AirBNB rates
>>>>>> are quite variable.  Even so, $10K probably covers ~3 weeks when
>>>>>> driving.  So without the ski trip, ballpark $25K for 2024,
>>>>>> including the Florida bit (next below):
>>>>>>
>>>>>> {merge}
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  > Second reply. I just updated the 2024 travel diary and forgot to
>>>>>>  > include 2 January Florida weeks. We stayed with friends week 1, so
>>>>>>  > that kept the cost down. I think the whole trip was only maybe
>>>>>> $3-4k
>>>>>>  > all-in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> {merge}
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  > Back again. FYI the club 182 cruises at 160+ mph, not 125.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So its an 5,760 miles upper limit.  That's still not enough to
>>>>>> cross the pond & back...and one still can't nap (safely) when at
>>>>>> the controls.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  > It's a little over 2.5 hours including taxi time, with no
>>>>>> headwind.
>>>>>>  > Delta makes it in 1:30 of droning on in a B737 but them you
>>>>>> have a 1+  > hour drive to my sister's place in Woodstock, TSA
>>>>>> hassles, ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TSA Pre makes airport security pretty trivial.  And since someone
>>>>>> else is driving, its easy to take a nap, watch a movie, read a
>>>>>> book...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  > ... and what do we do with all the Christmas presents in Cessna
>>>>>>  > luggage compartment? 🙂
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have Amazon send them direct to final destination.  Or ship them
>>>>>> out in advance via FedEx, USPS, or UPS.  Or small gifts which fit
>>>>>> easily in one's pocket, and/or a small carry-on bag.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -hh
>>>>>
>>>>> I NEVER feel the need to nap when I'm in the aircraft left front seat.
>>>>
>>>> Irrelevant, because you have no other choice.  Ditto for going up to
>>>> go to the bathroom.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> You have no clue, do you? Flying yourself is an exciting and
>>>>> engaging way to get there that adds a whole new dimension to a
>>>>> vacation. You will never experience that.
>>>>
>>>> You should have said "never again", because you've not recalled my
>>>> comment from a 2011 post which is germane:
>>>>
>>>> "Personally, I've not had sufficient stick time to have much of a
>>>> strong opinion, but enough to know a few things and ask a few
>>>> questions."
>>>>
>>>> Plus I've also mentioned that I had had a coworker who was trying to
>>>> encourage me to get my ticket and buy his C172...remember?
>>>>
>>>> There might even be a few random comments from my even older analog
>>>> RC aircraft days.
>>>>
>>>> -hh
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not irrelevant at all. I do it BECAUSE I love and value every minute
>>> as pilot in command. We plan our air trips just like you plan car
>>> trips, including potty stops. No big deal. Most are within the
>>> bathroom break window, but with an airplane like N182SV that has up
>>> to 6-7 hours endurance it can be an issue to be planned for.
>>>
>>> I have no issue that your preferences are different. My issue is you
>>> projecting your preferences to others, including yours truly.
>>>
>>> On Saturday we leave for Vancouver on Air Canada. Looking forward to
>>> that too. Flying is flying. :)
>>
>> That you are "looking forward" to "flying" as a passenger in what is
>> about the same comfort as a bus says everything I need to know about
>> your taste.
>
> LOL! A bus does not fly and travels at about 10% of the speed of a
> commercial jet. Not comparable.

On 7/16/24 9:22 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
> On 7/10/2024 4:05 PM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-07-10 12:22, -hh wrote:
>>> On 7/10/24 10:51 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>> On 7/6/2024 4:42 PM, -hh wrote:
>>>>> On 7/5/24 2:19 PM, Tom Elam wrote (plus merged posts):
>>>>>> On 6/28/2024 8:04 PM, -hh wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/28/24 11:10 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/27/2024 3:55 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2024-06-25 10:34, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Dear Alan,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Last year, 2023, April-June, there 3 weekends, 9 races at
>>>>>>>>>> SBBC. Total unique CW driver entries were 97, OW 37. These are
>>>>>>>>>> typical for an entire season for 2021-2023. In April-June 2024
>>>>>>>>>> unique driver entries are 14 OW and 49 CW, about half prior
>>>>>>>>>> years.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> These stats are from the SBBC season championship records.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Wow, quite the drop. What's going on, Alan?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And, BTW, you entered 11 out of a 71 2021-2024 races. None
>>>>>>>>>> last year of course, but also none this year and 11 out of 34
>>>>>>>>>> in 2021-22. Have you retired? I thought you were looking
>>>>>>>>>> forward to getting back this year. Not so much?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So great to see you taking such an interest in my life, Liarboy!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I wonder if I might take a little interest in yours.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Done much flying lately?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, yes. Two very different flavors. Full scale last 6 months,
>>>>>>>> 36 hours logged including 2 family visit trips to Georgia, some
>>>>>>>> CAP hours, and just passed a VFR checkride. The Christmas return
>>>>>>>> flight from Georgia was IFR all the way home and an instrument
>>>>>>>> approach into Indy Metro.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Christmas of 2023, of course.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now good for 2 another years on my BFR, taking me almost to my
>>>>>>>> 80th birthday. At this time I am also IFR current and capable,
>>>>>>>> but those are perishable skills. I'll be taking an IFR skills
>>>>>>>> test checkride before the end of September.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> RC model flying has been active since the weather improved in
>>>>>>>> April. Some of that is documented on my YouTube channel
>>>>>>>> available at:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcvZXi-36GQkeHr0FdB4cTg
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My latest YT video is rendering as I write this. That one is on
>>>>>>>> programming my 3 meter Fox sailplane for solo hand launch. It
>>>>>>>> will be up on the channel by end of today.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tomorrow I am scheduled to go to the AMA annual Fun Fly in
>>>>>>>> Muncie and do some instructing with beginning RC pilots. I also
>>>>>>>> just passed my Part 107 Remote Pilot/commercial drone license
>>>>>>>> FAA refresher, and good for another 2 on that front years too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So yes, done a lot of flying. Some airline flying in the near
>>>>>>>> future too!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Because even 36 hours droning along at a Cessna's 125mph cruising
>>>>>>> speed is just 4500 miles: enough to cross the pond once...but not
>>>>>>> back.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We will be flying to Vancouver next month to catch a train to
>>>>>>>> Calgary then flying home from there. August takes us to France,
>>>>>>>> Luxembourg and a Viking river cruise to Basel. Flying home from
>>>>>>>> Zurich. Ten day trip in all. So still traveling too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh, so now its a ten day trip for what previously was a twelve
>>>>>>> day Paris-Rhine cruise claimed back in February?  /s
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How about you, doing any racing lately? I know the answer to
>>>>>>>> that, at least for SBBC events. Null, zero, nada since 2022.
>>>>>>>> Going anywhere outside Canada this year?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Life invariably takes different turns.  My last travel comment
>>>>>>> here was in early 2023, that we were looking (in 2023) to be
>>>>>>> making up for our CoVid travel lull, but that doesn't mean that
>>>>>>> it all went as had been hoped for: indeed, it could have changed.
>>>>>>> Cancelled outright, or even perhaps upgraded to be in First Class
>>>>>>> instead of Coach on all of that year's international flights! /s
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Same applies for 2024 as well, for life invariably throws curve
>>>>>>> balls; this is why the advice was to 'do the hard stuff' while
>>>>>>> one's body (& finances) are healthy enough to be still able to do
>>>>>>> what one wishes. Otherwise, one can be pushing 80 and renting a
>>>>>>> car is no longer trivial, so one can get increasingly constrained
>>>>>>> to guided tours on cruise ships.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In any event, a week on the Rocky Mountaineer and the
>>>>>>> aforementioned Rhine cruise sounds to be in the rough ballpark of
>>>>>>> ($7500+air)/pp, so it does seem like Tommy is perhaps finally
>>>>>>> breaking out of his prior fiscal constraint, as I'd long advised.
>>>>>>> Yay, you!.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -hh
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ten was a wrong number for Europe. It IS 12 days plus 2 for
>>>>>> to-from travel that I did not include in a prior post.
>>>>>
>>>>> But also plus +3 days pre-tour in Paris, as you've mentioned before
>>>>> and mentioned again below.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Canada trip is a package tour via a local company. It includes
>>>>>> several side trips, most meals, air, and several nights in the
>>>>>> Fairmont Banff Springs and others of similar quality prior to
>>>>>> Banff Springs. Check the rates on that hotel. $11,990 for 2.
>>>>>> Sadly, one of the people, a good friend at that, was scheduled to
>>>>>> go but died very suddenly. The wife has to cancel. It may still be
>>>>>> an open reservation for two. Interested? Starts July 20.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We've been meaning to get back to the Canadian Rockies, but that
>>>>> start date hits a schedule conflict.  Plus we learned last month
>>>>> that we're out of shape for any decent hiking in the Rockies (not
>>>>> that this rail journey would really have much), so not enough
>>>>> pre-trip prep time either.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Europe trip including air is a bit over $10,000 plus 3 nights
>>>>>> on our own in a Paris hotel at $300/night, plus meals, local
>>>>>> transportation and sundries. Likely to also come to about $12,000.
>>>>>
>>>>> Figured about that, as a cabin on Viking is ~$3800/pp on its own.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Your $7,500 pp is spot-on but includes airfare.
>>>>>
>>>>> As you know, there's several rail journey options to choose from,
>>>>> of varying lengths; I'd conservatively parameterized to a higher
>>>>> end tour than what you actually chose.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> We also just this week scheduled a trip to Luddington MI to spend
>>>>>> a week with some good friends at their cabin. I'll be flying us up
>>>>>> there, only about $600 R/T for air plus taking them out to a VERY
>>>>>> nice restaurant or two.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We also have the annual ski trip of course. 2024 is a bit of a
>>>>>> splurge but not that different from many prior years.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've not chatted skiing lately with a colleague who spends 2-3
>>>>> weeks in Vail each season to know current rates, but I'd expect
>>>>> that the Epic is still just ~$1K/pp and that condo/AirBNB rates are
>>>>> quite variable.  Even so, $10K probably covers ~3 weeks when
>>>>> driving.  So without the ski trip, ballpark $25K for 2024,
>>>>> including the Florida bit (next below):
>>>>>
>>>>> {merge}
>>>>>  >
>>>>>  > Second reply. I just updated the 2024 travel diary and forgot to
>>>>>  > include 2 January Florida weeks. We stayed with friends week 1, so
>>>>>  > that kept the cost down. I think the whole trip was only maybe
>>>>> $3-4k
>>>>>  > all-in.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> {merge}
>>>>>  >
>>>>>  > Back again. FYI the club 182 cruises at 160+ mph, not 125.
>>>>>
>>>>> So its an 5,760 miles upper limit.  That's still not enough to
>>>>> cross the pond & back...and one still can't nap (safely) when at
>>>>> the controls.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  > It's a little over 2.5 hours including taxi time, with no headwind.
>>>>>  > Delta makes it in 1:30 of droning on in a B737 but them you have
>>>>> a 1+  > hour drive to my sister's place in Woodstock, TSA hassles, ...
>>>>>
>>>>> TSA Pre makes airport security pretty trivial.  And since someone
>>>>> else is driving, its easy to take a nap, watch a movie, read a book...
>>>>>
>>>>>  > ... and what do we do with all the Christmas presents in Cessna
>>>>>  > luggage compartment? 🙂
>>>>>
>>>>> Have Amazon send them direct to final destination.  Or ship them
>>>>> out in advance via FedEx, USPS, or UPS.  Or small gifts which fit
>>>>> easily in one's pocket, and/or a small carry-on bag.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -hh
>>>>
>>>> I NEVER feel the need to nap when I'm in the aircraft left front seat.
>>>
>>> Irrelevant, because you have no other choice.  Ditto for going up to
>>> go to the bathroom.
>>>
>>>
>>>> You have no clue, do you? Flying yourself is an exciting and
>>>> engaging way to get there that adds a whole new dimension to a
>>>> vacation. You will never experience that.
>>>
>>> You should have said "never again", because you've not recalled my
>>> comment from a 2011 post which is germane:
>>>
>>> "Personally, I've not had sufficient stick time to have much of a
>>> strong opinion, but enough to know a few things and ask a few
>>> questions."
>>>
>>> Plus I've also mentioned that I had had a coworker who was trying to
>>> encourage me to get my ticket and buy his C172...remember?
>>>
>>> There might even be a few random comments from my even older analog
>>> RC aircraft days.
>>>
>>> -hh
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Our Tommie has what I would term a very "convenient" memory.
>
> 13 years ago was quite a while back

On 2024-07-16 06:10, Tom Elam wrote:
> On 7/15/2024 1:45 PM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-07-15 10:37, Tom Elam wrote:
>>> On 7/10/2024 1:22 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-07-10 07:51, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>> On 7/6/2024 4:42 PM, -hh wrote:
>>>>>> On 7/5/24 2:19 PM, Tom Elam wrote (plus merged posts):
>>>>>>> On 6/28/2024 8:04 PM, -hh wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/28/24 11:10 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/27/2024 3:55 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-06-25 10:34, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Alan,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Last year, 2023, April-June, there 3 weekends, 9 races at
>>>>>>>>>>> SBBC. Total unique CW driver entries were 97, OW 37. These
>>>>>>>>>>> are typical for an entire season for 2021-2023. In April-June
>>>>>>>>>>> 2024 unique driver entries are 14 OW and 49 CW, about half
>>>>>>>>>>> prior years.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> These stats are from the SBBC season championship records.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Wow, quite the drop. What's going on, Alan?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And, BTW, you entered 11 out of a 71 2021-2024 races. None
>>>>>>>>>>> last year of course, but also none this year and 11 out of 34
>>>>>>>>>>> in 2021-22. Have you retired? I thought you were looking
>>>>>>>>>>> forward to getting back this year. Not so much?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So great to see you taking such an interest in my life, Liarboy!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if I might take a little interest in yours.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Done much flying lately?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well, yes. Two very different flavors. Full scale last 6
>>>>>>>>> months, 36 hours logged including 2 family visit trips to
>>>>>>>>> Georgia, some CAP hours, and just passed a VFR checkride. The
>>>>>>>>> Christmas return flight from Georgia was IFR all the way home
>>>>>>>>> and an instrument approach into Indy Metro.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Christmas of 2023, of course.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Now good for 2 another years on my BFR, taking me almost to my
>>>>>>>>> 80th birthday. At this time I am also IFR current and capable,
>>>>>>>>> but those are perishable skills. I'll be taking an IFR skills
>>>>>>>>> test checkride before the end of September.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> RC model flying has been active since the weather improved in
>>>>>>>>> April. Some of that is documented on my YouTube channel
>>>>>>>>> available at:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcvZXi-36GQkeHr0FdB4cTg
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My latest YT video is rendering as I write this. That one is on
>>>>>>>>> programming my 3 meter Fox sailplane for solo hand launch. It
>>>>>>>>> will be up on the channel by end of today.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tomorrow I am scheduled to go to the AMA annual Fun Fly in
>>>>>>>>> Muncie and do some instructing with beginning RC pilots. I also
>>>>>>>>> just passed my Part 107 Remote Pilot/commercial drone license
>>>>>>>>> FAA refresher, and good for another 2 on that front years too.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So yes, done a lot of flying. Some airline flying in the near
>>>>>>>>> future too!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Because even 36 hours droning along at a Cessna's 125mph
>>>>>>>> cruising speed is just 4500 miles: enough to cross the pond
>>>>>>>> once...but not back.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We will be flying to Vancouver next month to catch a train to
>>>>>>>>> Calgary then flying home from there. August takes us to France,
>>>>>>>>> Luxembourg and a Viking river cruise to Basel. Flying home from
>>>>>>>>> Zurich. Ten day trip in all. So still traveling too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oh, so now its a ten day trip for what previously was a twelve
>>>>>>>> day Paris-Rhine cruise claimed back in February?  /s
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How about you, doing any racing lately? I know the answer to
>>>>>>>>> that, at least for SBBC events. Null, zero, nada since 2022.
>>>>>>>>> Going anywhere outside Canada this year?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Life invariably takes different turns.  My last travel comment
>>>>>>>> here was in early 2023, that we were looking (in 2023) to be
>>>>>>>> making up for our CoVid travel lull, but that doesn't mean that
>>>>>>>> it all went as had been hoped for: indeed, it could have
>>>>>>>> changed. Cancelled outright, or even perhaps upgraded to be in
>>>>>>>> First Class instead of Coach on all of that year's international
>>>>>>>> flights! /s
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Same applies for 2024 as well, for life invariably throws curve
>>>>>>>> balls; this is why the advice was to 'do the hard stuff' while
>>>>>>>> one's body (& finances) are healthy enough to be still able to
>>>>>>>> do what one wishes. Otherwise, one can be pushing 80 and renting
>>>>>>>> a car is no longer trivial, so one can get increasingly
>>>>>>>> constrained to guided tours on cruise ships.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In any event, a week on the Rocky Mountaineer and the
>>>>>>>> aforementioned Rhine cruise sounds to be in the rough ballpark
>>>>>>>> of ($7500+air)/pp, so it does seem like Tommy is perhaps finally
>>>>>>>> breaking out of his prior fiscal constraint, as I'd long
>>>>>>>> advised. Yay, you!.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -hh
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ten was a wrong number for Europe. It IS 12 days plus 2 for
>>>>>>> to-from travel that I did not include in a prior post.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But also plus +3 days pre-tour in Paris, as you've mentioned
>>>>>> before and mentioned again below.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Canada trip is a package tour via a local company. It
>>>>>>> includes several side trips, most meals, air, and several nights
>>>>>>> in the Fairmont Banff Springs and others of similar quality prior
>>>>>>> to Banff Springs. Check the rates on that hotel. $11,990 for 2.
>>>>>>> Sadly, one of the people, a good friend at that, was scheduled to
>>>>>>> go but died very suddenly. The wife has to cancel. It may still
>>>>>>> be an open reservation for two. Interested? Starts July 20.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We've been meaning to get back to the Canadian Rockies, but that
>>>>>> start date hits a schedule conflict.  Plus we learned last month
>>>>>> that we're out of shape for any decent hiking in the Rockies (not
>>>>>> that this rail journey would really have much), so not enough
>>>>>> pre-trip prep time either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Europe trip including air is a bit over $10,000 plus 3 nights
>>>>>>> on our own in a Paris hotel at $300/night, plus meals, local
>>>>>>> transportation and sundries. Likely to also come to about $12,000.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Figured about that, as a cabin on Viking is ~$3800/pp on its own.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your $7,500 pp is spot-on but includes airfare.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As you know, there's several rail journey options to choose from,
>>>>>> of varying lengths; I'd conservatively parameterized to a higher
>>>>>> end tour than what you actually chose.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We also just this week scheduled a trip to Luddington MI to spend
>>>>>>> a week with some good friends at their cabin. I'll be flying us
>>>>>>> up there, only about $600 R/T for air plus taking them out to a
>>>>>>> VERY nice restaurant or two.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We also have the annual ski trip of course. 2024 is a bit of a
>>>>>>> splurge but not that different from many prior years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've not chatted skiing lately with a colleague who spends 2-3
>>>>>> weeks in Vail each season to know current rates, but I'd expect
>>>>>> that the Epic is still just ~$1K/pp and that condo/AirBNB rates
>>>>>> are quite variable.  Even so, $10K probably covers ~3 weeks when
>>>>>> driving.  So without the ski trip, ballpark $25K for 2024,
>>>>>> including the Florida bit (next below):
>>>>>>
>>>>>> {merge}
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  > Second reply. I just updated the 2024 travel diary and forgot to
>>>>>>  > include 2 January Florida weeks. We stayed with friends week 1, so
>>>>>>  > that kept the cost down. I think the whole trip was only maybe
>>>>>> $3-4k
>>>>>>  > all-in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> {merge}
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  > Back again. FYI the club 182 cruises at 160+ mph, not 125.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So its an 5,760 miles upper limit.  That's still not enough to
>>>>>> cross the pond & back...and one still can't nap (safely) when at
>>>>>> the controls.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  > It's a little over 2.5 hours including taxi time, with no
>>>>>> headwind.
>>>>>>  > Delta makes it in 1:30 of droning on in a B737 but them you
>>>>>> have a 1+  > hour drive to my sister's place in Woodstock, TSA
>>>>>> hassles, ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TSA Pre makes airport security pretty trivial.  And since someone
>>>>>> else is driving, its easy to take a nap, watch a movie, read a
>>>>>> book...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  > ... and what do we do with all the Christmas presents in Cessna
>>>>>>  > luggage compartment? 🙂
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have Amazon send them direct to final destination.  Or ship them
>>>>>> out in advance via FedEx, USPS, or UPS.  Or small gifts which fit
>>>>>> easily in one's pocket, and/or a small carry-on bag.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -hh
>>>>>
>>>>> I NEVER feel the need to nap when I'm in the aircraft left front
>>>>> seat. You have no clue, do you? Flying yourself is an exciting and
>>>>> engaging way to get there that adds a whole new dimension to a
>>>>> vacation. You will never experience that.
>>>>
>>>> Flying if done properly is utterly boring once you're in cruise.
>>>
>>> And your personal experience with pilot in command on long cross
>>> country trips is how many hours? Passengers are supposed to be bored.
>>> If they are not you are not a very good pilot.
>>>
>>> Yet another Alan Baker lie based on zero personal experience.
>>
>> Please, Liarboy.
>>
>> What "excites" you in cruise on a cross country trip?
>
> With zero experience you would never understand. I'm not even going to
> bother answering.
>

On 2024-07-16 06:20, Tom Elam wrote:

>>> I have no issue that your preferences are different. My issue is you
>>> projecting your preferences to others, including yours truly.
>>>
>>> On Saturday we leave for Vancouver on Air Canada. Looking forward to
>>> that too. Flying is flying. :)
>>
>> That you are "looking forward" to "flying" as a passenger in what is
>> about the same comfort as a bus says everything I need to know about
>> your taste.
>
> LOL! A bus does not fly and travels at about 10% of the speed of a
> commercial jet.

But an hour in a bus on the highway is pretty much exactly the same as
an hour in an airliner in cruise.

> Not comparable. What would you take on a long trip that
> is more comfortable than an aircraft? Car? Bus? Train? Motorcycle? I
> suppose a ship could be, but very slow.

I'm not suggesting they are comparable for which I'd rather take on a
long trip...

....but for your claim that "flying is flying" that makes being a
passenger on a bus in the sky something to look forward to in and of itself.

On 2024-07-16 07:08, -hh wrote:

>>>> On Saturday we leave for Vancouver on Air Canada. Looking forward to
>>>> that too. Flying is flying. :)
>>>
>>> That you are "looking forward" to "flying" as a passenger in what is
>>> about the same comfort as a bus says everything I need to know about
>>> your taste.
>>
>> LOL! A bus does not fly and travels at about 10% of the speed of a
>> commercial jet. Not comparable.
>
> Fun fact:  a bus on a highway is moving a lot closer to a Cessna's
> cruise speed than a Cessna is to a commercial jet, which makes the bus
> must *more* comparable to the Cessna.
>
> Similarly, the windows on a bus & Cessna are much larger than a 737
> jet's "porthole", & have more forward views.
>
>
>> What would you take on a long trip that is more comfortable than an
>> aircraft? Car? Bus? Train? Motorcycle? I suppose a ship could be, but
>> very slow.
>
> I'm reminded of and joke that some of my former military (and later 747)
> pilot friends have told me:
>
> One day, a fighter jock pulls up next to a 747 to have a chat.  He
> proceeds with a "watch this!", showing the 747 a loop, barrel roll, etc.
>
> Then the 747 pilot responds with his own "watch this".
>
> Time passes as the jock just is watching the 747 cruising along straight
> & level.  After 15 minutes, the 747 pilot comes back on the radio and
> says "well how did you like that?".
>
> Jock replies:  "how did I like .. what?"
>
> 747 pilot explains: "Well, I switched to auto-pilot, then got up and
> went to the bathroom.  Then I stopped & brewed a fresh cup of coffee and
> had that while I stretched my legs..."  :-)
>
> Remind us how long the corridor is in a Cessna, Tommy. Oh, and headroom
> to stand up in the cabin too.

The amazing part for me was Tommie suggesting that flying in economy on
an airliner was somehow something to be looked forward to...

....for the FLYING ITSELF!

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
> On 2024-07-16 07:08, -hh wrote:
>
>>>>> On Saturday we leave for Vancouver on Air Canada. Looking forward to
>>>>> that too. Flying is flying. :)
>>>>
>>>> That you are "looking forward" to "flying" as a passenger in what is
>>>> about the same comfort as a bus says everything I need to know about
>>>> your taste.
>>>
>>> LOL! A bus does not fly and travels at about 10% of the speed of a
>>> commercial jet. Not comparable.
>>
>> Fun fact:  a bus on a highway is moving a lot closer to a Cessna's
>> cruise speed than a Cessna is to a commercial jet, which makes the bus
>> must *more* comparable to the Cessna.
>>
>> Similarly, the windows on a bus & Cessna are much larger than a 737
>> jet's "porthole", & have more forward views.
>>
>>
>>> What would you take on a long trip that is more comfortable than an
>>> aircraft? Car? Bus? Train? Motorcycle? I suppose a ship could be, but
>>> very slow.
>>
>> I'm reminded of and joke that some of my former military (and later 747)
>> pilot friends have told me:
>>
>> One day, a fighter jock pulls up next to a 747 to have a chat.  He
>> proceeds with a "watch this!", showing the 747 a loop, barrel roll, etc.
>>
>> Then the 747 pilot responds with his own "watch this".
>>
>> Time passes as the jock just is watching the 747 cruising along straight
>> & level.  After 15 minutes, the 747 pilot comes back on the radio and
>> says "well how did you like that?".
>>
>> Jock replies:  "how did I like .. what?"
>>
>> 747 pilot explains: "Well, I switched to auto-pilot, then got up and
>> went to the bathroom.  Then I stopped & brewed a fresh cup of coffee and
>> had that while I stretched my legs..."  :-)
>>
>> Remind us how long the corridor is in a Cessna, Tommy. Oh, and headroom
>> to stand up in the cabin too.
>
> The amazing part for me was Tommie suggesting that flying in economy on
> an airliner was somehow something to be looked forward to...
>
> ...for the FLYING ITSELF!

If that really is the case, then he’d better never ever choose an aisle
seat ;-P

-hh

-hh wrote:
> Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-07-16 07:08, -hh wrote:
>>
>>>>>> On Saturday we leave for Vancouver on Air Canada. Looking forward to
>>>>>> that too. Flying is flying. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> That you are "looking forward" to "flying" as a passenger in what is
>>>>> about the same comfort as a bus says everything I need to know about
>>>>> your taste.
>>>>
>>>> LOL! A bus does not fly and travels at about 10% of the speed of a
>>>> commercial jet. Not comparable.
>>>
>>> Fun fact:  a bus on a highway is moving a lot closer to a Cessna's
>>> cruise speed than a Cessna is to a commercial jet, which makes the bus
>>> must *more* comparable to the Cessna.
>>>
>>> Similarly, the windows on a bus & Cessna are much larger than a 737
>>> jet's "porthole", & have more forward views.
>>>
>>>
>>>> What would you take on a long trip that is more comfortable than an
>>>> aircraft? Car? Bus? Train? Motorcycle? I suppose a ship could be, but
>>>> very slow.
>>>
>>> I'm reminded of and joke that some of my former military (and later 747)
>>> pilot friends have told me:
>>>
>>> One day, a fighter jock pulls up next to a 747 to have a chat.  He
>>> proceeds with a "watch this!", showing the 747 a loop, barrel roll, etc.
>>>
>>> Then the 747 pilot responds with his own "watch this".
>>>
>>> Time passes as the jock just is watching the 747 cruising along straight
>>> & level.  After 15 minutes, the 747 pilot comes back on the radio and
>>> says "well how did you like that?".
>>>
>>> Jock replies:  "how did I like .. what?"
>>>
>>> 747 pilot explains: "Well, I switched to auto-pilot, then got up and
>>> went to the bathroom.  Then I stopped & brewed a fresh cup of coffee and
>>> had that while I stretched my legs..."  :-)
>>>
>>> Remind us how long the corridor is in a Cessna, Tommy. Oh, and headroom
>>> to stand up in the cabin too.
>>
>> The amazing part for me was Tommie suggesting that flying in economy on
>> an airliner was somehow something to be looked forward to...
>>
>> ...for the FLYING ITSELF!
>
> If that really is the case, then he’d better never ever choose an aisle
> seat ;-P

Oh, and one more thing:

Fun fact: the cruising velocity of a cruise ship is closer to that of a
Cessna than a Cessna’s velocity is to a commercial jet (eg 737).

And yes, a cruise will take longer to go the same distance (of course), but
it’s not only more comfortable, but the food is much better (& there’s a
private bath)…and no layovers at Denver or Chicago while en route.

IIRC, the longest cruise we’ve taken to date was a bit over 2500 miles.

-hh

On 7/17/2024 9:09 PM, -hh wrote:
> -hh wrote:
>> Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-07-16 07:08, -hh wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> On Saturday we leave for Vancouver on Air Canada. Looking forward to
>>>>>>> that too. Flying is flying. :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That you are "looking forward" to "flying" as a passenger in what is
>>>>>> about the same comfort as a bus says everything I need to know about
>>>>>> your taste.
>>>>>
>>>>> LOL! A bus does not fly and travels at about 10% of the speed of a
>>>>> commercial jet. Not comparable.
>>>>
>>>> Fun fact:  a bus on a highway is moving a lot closer to a Cessna's
>>>> cruise speed than a Cessna is to a commercial jet, which makes the bus
>>>> must *more* comparable to the Cessna.
>>>>
>>>> Similarly, the windows on a bus & Cessna are much larger than a 737
>>>> jet's "porthole", & have more forward views.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> What would you take on a long trip that is more comfortable than an
>>>>> aircraft? Car? Bus? Train? Motorcycle? I suppose a ship could be, but
>>>>> very slow.
>>>>
>>>> I'm reminded of and joke that some of my former military (and later 747)
>>>> pilot friends have told me:
>>>>
>>>> One day, a fighter jock pulls up next to a 747 to have a chat.  He
>>>> proceeds with a "watch this!", showing the 747 a loop, barrel roll, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Then the 747 pilot responds with his own "watch this".
>>>>
>>>> Time passes as the jock just is watching the 747 cruising along straight
>>>> & level.  After 15 minutes, the 747 pilot comes back on the radio and
>>>> says "well how did you like that?".
>>>>
>>>> Jock replies:  "how did I like .. what?"
>>>>
>>>> 747 pilot explains: "Well, I switched to auto-pilot, then got up and
>>>> went to the bathroom.  Then I stopped & brewed a fresh cup of coffee and
>>>> had that while I stretched my legs..."  :-)
>>>>
>>>> Remind us how long the corridor is in a Cessna, Tommy. Oh, and headroom
>>>> to stand up in the cabin too.
>>>
>>> The amazing part for me was Tommie suggesting that flying in economy on
>>> an airliner was somehow something to be looked forward to...
>>>
>>> ...for the FLYING ITSELF!
>>
>> If that really is the case, then he’d better never ever choose an aisle
>> seat ;-P
>
> Oh, and one more thing:
>
> Fun fact: the cruising velocity of a cruise ship is closer to that of a
> Cessna than a Cessna’s velocity is to a commercial jet (eg 737).
>
> And yes, a cruise will take longer to go the same distance (of course), but
> it’s not only more comfortable, but the food is much better (& there’s a
> private bath)…and no layovers at Denver or Chicago while en route.
>
> IIRC, the longest cruise we’ve taken to date was a bit over 2500 miles.
>
> -hh

OK, checking Expedia for a cruise from Carmel to Luddington MI. Website
can't find that, or a direct commercial airline itinerary either.

Indy International to Muskegon/return is about $600 each on our travel
dates and the scheduled trip time alone is about 7-12 hours on the
flight schedule via ORD plus the drive to Ludington and having to be at
the airport 1-2 hours ahead each way. It's a 2.5 hour Cessna flight with
about an hour each way to get to the airport, load up and get airborne.
The aircraft will cost about $650 to rent, about half airfare. A
variable is weather, but with my IFR rating I can very likely work
around that. The airlines are hardly 100% reliable either.

Our Santiago to Fort Lauderdale trip was about 4,800 miles, and the food
was excellent. Stops were OK, but the Canal was the highlight.

On 2024-07-29 13:30, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>> The amazing part for me was Tommie suggesting that flying in economy on
>>>> an airliner was somehow something to be looked forward to...
>>>>
>>>> ...for the FLYING ITSELF!
>>>
>>> If that really is the case, then he’d better never ever choose an aisle
>>> seat 😜
>>
>> Oh, and one more thing:
>>
>> Fun fact:  the cruising velocity of a cruise ship is closer to that of a
>> Cessna than a Cessna’s velocity is to a commercial jet (eg 737).
>>
>> And yes, a cruise will take longer to go the same distance (of
>> course), but
>> it’s not only more comfortable, but the food is much better (& there’s a
>> private bath)…and no layovers at Denver or Chicago while en route.
>>
>> IIRC, the longest cruise we’ve taken to date was a bit over 2500 miles.
>>
>> -hh
>
> OK, checking Expedia for a cruise from Carmel to Luddington MI. Website
> can't find that, or a direct commercial airline itinerary either.
>
> Indy International to Muskegon/return is about $600 each on our travel
> dates and the scheduled trip time alone is about 7-12 hours on the
> flight schedule via ORD plus the drive to Ludington and having to be at
> the airport 1-2 hours ahead each way. It's a 2.5 hour Cessna flight with
> about an hour each way to get to the airport, load up and get airborne.
> The aircraft will cost about $650 to rent, about half airfare. A
> variable is weather, but with my IFR rating I can very likely work
> around that. The airlines are hardly 100% reliable either.
>
> Our Santiago to Fort Lauderdale trip was about 4,800 miles, and the food
> was excellent. Stops were OK, but the Canal was the highlight.

But the hilarious part remains you claiming that flying in coach is some
kind of thrill.

Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 7/17/2024 9:09 PM, -hh wrote:
>> -hh wrote:
>>> Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-07-16 07:08, -hh wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Saturday we leave for Vancouver on Air Canada. Looking forward to
>>>>>>>> that too. Flying is flying. :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That you are "looking forward" to "flying" as a passenger in what is
>>>>>>> about the same comfort as a bus says everything I need to know about
>>>>>>> your taste.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LOL! A bus does not fly and travels at about 10% of the speed of a
>>>>>> commercial jet. Not comparable.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fun fact:  a bus on a highway is moving a lot closer to a Cessna's
>>>>> cruise speed than a Cessna is to a commercial jet, which makes the bus
>>>>> must *more* comparable to the Cessna.
>>>>>
>>>>> Similarly, the windows on a bus & Cessna are much larger than a 737
>>>>> jet's "porthole", & have more forward views.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> What would you take on a long trip that is more comfortable than an
>>>>>> aircraft? Car? Bus? Train? Motorcycle? I suppose a ship could be, but
>>>>>> very slow.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm reminded of and joke that some of my former military (and later 747)
>>>>> pilot friends have told me:
>>>>>
>>>>> One day, a fighter jock pulls up next to a 747 to have a chat.  He
>>>>> proceeds with a "watch this!", showing the 747 a loop, barrel roll, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then the 747 pilot responds with his own "watch this".
>>>>>
>>>>> Time passes as the jock just is watching the 747 cruising along straight
>>>>> & level.  After 15 minutes, the 747 pilot comes back on the radio and
>>>>> says "well how did you like that?".
>>>>>
>>>>> Jock replies:  "how did I like .. what?"
>>>>>
>>>>> 747 pilot explains: "Well, I switched to auto-pilot, then got up and
>>>>> went to the bathroom.  Then I stopped & brewed a fresh cup of coffee and
>>>>> had that while I stretched my legs..."  :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Remind us how long the corridor is in a Cessna, Tommy. Oh, and headroom
>>>>> to stand up in the cabin too.
>>>>
>>>> The amazing part for me was Tommie suggesting that flying in economy on
>>>> an airliner was somehow something to be looked forward to...
>>>>
>>>> ...for the FLYING ITSELF!
>>>
>>> If that really is the case, then he’d better never ever choose an aisle
>>> seat ;-P
>>
>> Oh, and one more thing:
>>
>> Fun fact: the cruising velocity of a cruise ship is closer to that of a
>> Cessna than a Cessna’s velocity is to a commercial jet (eg 737).
>>
>> And yes, a cruise will take longer to go the same distance (of course), but
>> it’s not only more comfortable, but the food is much better (& there’s a
>> private bath)…and no layovers at Denver or Chicago while en route.
>>
>> IIRC, the longest cruise we’ve taken to date was a bit over 2500 miles.
>>
>> -hh
>
> OK, checking Expedia for a cruise from Carmel to Luddington MI. Website
> can't find that, or a direct commercial airline itinerary either.

IND-ORD-MDL exists, and is on paper faster than driving the 300 miles.

> Indy International to Muskegon/return is about $600 each on our travel
> dates and the scheduled trip time alone is about 7-12 hours on the
> flight schedule via ORD plus the drive to Ludington and having to be at
> the airport 1-2 hours ahead each way.

I’m finding cheap midweeks on Google Flights at $276/pp-RT, so half of the
above.

> It's a 2.5 hour Cessna flight with
> about an hour each way to get to the airport, load up and get airborne.

So that’s 3.5 hours minimum…plus the destination side too, for its
transportation arrangements (& costs if renting, Uber, etc).

> The aircraft will cost about $650 to rent, about half airfare. A
> variable is weather, but with my IFR rating I can very likely work
> around that. The airlines are hardly 100% reliable either.

Yet driving is <5hrs, and has no meaningful VFR/IFR concerns.
Plus one has ‘free’ transportation included at the destination too.

For costs, at a fully burdened $0.50/mi rate, taking one’s POV is $300 RT =
half the cost of renting a Cessna…and unburdened, it’s just 20 gallons of
gas for 600 miles at 30mpg, or ~$75.

> Our Santiago to Fort Lauderdale trip was about 4,800 miles, and the food
> was excellent. Stops were OK, but the Canal was the highlight.

Food is reliably good on cruises…better than airline food, even up in First
Class seats. Even a car based road trip can do better at times, especially
when one plans ahead.

-hh