This one is called "Doom: The Dark Ages".

There's a trailer video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tk8lkmYGWQ

I'm of mixed feelings about this one. On the one hand, the last two
"Doom" games didn't really capture me with their gameplay and,
honestly, I feel the franchise has really gone as far as it really
needs to go. How many times do we REALLY need to fight the same demons
of hell, especially after so conclusively defeating them at the end of
the "Ancient Gods" DLC released in 2021?

On the other hand, the new game does look really nice, and it actually
expands some of the Doom lore. Yes, I'm that weirdo who actually
/cares/ about the story in Doom! "Dark Ages" tells the story of what
the Doom Guy was up to between the end of "Doom 2" and the start of
"Doom 4" (it's the same guy, if you don't know. He arrived amnesiac in
another dimension where he was taken in by a fantasy-esque culture and
became their warleader in the fight against the demons). "Dark Ages"
details his rise to prominence -and presumably, his inevitable fall-
that preceded the start of "Doom 4".

Oh, and if the trailer is anything to go by, the push-forward
pinata-enemy combat mechanics have been abandonned for more
traditional FPS game-play. Since I never cared for the former, that's
a definite plus as far as I'm concerned.

I mean, I'd still rather the industry stop relying on old IPs as a
crutch and create new stuff instead, but I can't deny /some/ interest
in this game. But the fact that it's yet-another-sequel does push it
back from instant 'must buy' to 'we'll see, maybe when its on sale or
part of HumbleBundle'.

On 6/9/2024 5:06 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> There's a trailer video here:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tk8lkmYGWQ

That looks really cool. Shotgun, Hordes of enemies, Boss enemies,
Captain America shield, Mech, riding a dragon.

I haven't really been interested in Doom since the original, maybe 2 it
was so long ago. This looks really good, but I'll wait until it's out
and reviewed by real people.

--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
(\_/)\
`-'\ `--.___,
¶¬'\( ,_.-'
\\
^'

On 10/06/2024 01:43, Justisaur wrote:
> On 6/9/2024 5:06 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>> There's a trailer video here:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tk8lkmYGWQ
>
> That looks really cool.  Shotgun, Hordes of enemies, Boss enemies,
> Captain America shield, Mech, riding a dragon.
>
> I haven't really been interested in Doom since the original, maybe 2 it
> was so long ago.  This looks really good, but I'll wait until it's out
> and reviewed by real people.
>

Doom is one of those games I've never really played. I missed it first
time around and did play a bit of one of the later versions, can't
remember which one, but I can't say the gameplay grabbed me.

Am 10.06.24 um 02:06 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
> I mean, I'd still rather the industry stop relying on old IPs as a
> crutch and create new stuff instead, but I can't deny/some/ interest
> in this game. But the fact that it's yet-another-sequel does push it
> back from instant 'must buy' to 'we'll see, maybe when its on sale or
> part of HumbleBundle'.
I stopped playing doom after Doom 1...
I have not missed anything, YMMV, but for me this was a one time event
where a ton of things came together, but shooters are generally not my
favorite kind of thing. I personally from a technical achievement would
rate Ultima Underworld and System Shock way higher, but Doom with its
nob brain shooter elements was longer lasting and spawned more or less
as initial explotion an entire genre of dumb shooters...

Am 10.06.24 um 09:27 schrieb Werner P.:
> Am 10.06.24 um 02:06 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
>> I mean, I'd still rather the industry stop relying on old IPs as a
>> crutch and create new stuff instead, but I can't deny/some/  interest
>> in this game. But the fact that it's yet-another-sequel does push it
>> back from instant 'must buy' to 'we'll see, maybe when its on sale or
>> part of HumbleBundle'.
> I stopped playing doom after Doom 1...
> I have not missed anything, YMMV, but for me this was a one time event
> where a ton of things came together, but shooters are generally not my
> favorite kind of thing. I personally from a technical achievement would
> rate Ultima Underworld and System Shock way higher, but Doom with its
> nob brain shooter elements was longer lasting and spawned more or less
> as initial explotion an entire genre of dumb shooters...
>
PS: This is a highly personal opinion, and I know I am a minority with
it even in this group, so do not take it personally!

Am 10.06.24 um 09:07 schrieb JAB:
> On 10/06/2024 01:43, Justisaur wrote:
>> On 6/9/2024 5:06 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>>> There's a trailer video here:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tk8lkmYGWQ
>>
>> That looks really cool.  Shotgun, Hordes of enemies, Boss enemies,
>> Captain America shield, Mech, riding a dragon.
>>
>> I haven't really been interested in Doom since the original, maybe 2
>> it was so long ago.  This looks really good, but I'll wait until it's
>> out and reviewed by real people.
>>
>
> Doom is one of those games I've never really played. I missed it first
> time around and did play a bit of one of the later versions, can't
> remember which one, but I can't say the gameplay grabbed me.
>
>
The game, the original, when it came out was refreshing and new and
really hit a nerve
a ton of that had to do with the dark humor (chainsaw) and the music by
nine inch nails.
Technically the game shined with its fluid 3d but basically other games
were way more technically advanced. But braindead action itches a nerve
in many people and doom filled that void back then on the pc side
perfectly, and from there it became a cultural phenomenon due to press
reports!
Not sure whether it is worthwhile to play any of the sequels, if you
love shooters then probably yes, if you are like my relatively annoyed
by the endless streams of shooters since Doom which were the doom (pun
intended) of many other more cerebral genres, then definitely not!

>Doom is one of those games I've never really played.

The music alone is reason enough to play Doom 1. Same with Descent 1 &
2, amazing soundtracks.

rms

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 09:27:56 +0200, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:

>PS: This is a highly personal opinion, and I know I am a minority with
>it even in this group, so do not take it personally!

Well I never cared for Doom either and anyone here can take it as
personally as they would like. :)

I don't know if it was actually a better game, but I had more fun with
Heretic then Doom.

rms <rsquiresMOO@mooflashmoo.net> wrote:
> >Doom is one of those games I've never really played.

> The music alone is reason enough to play Doom 1. Same with Descent 1 &
> 2, amazing soundtracks.

Just be sure it has good MIDI. FM MIDI sucks. ;)
--
"Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers." --Galatians 6:10! Dallas' horses failed 2 buck & stomp Boston's green men again & 2 many videos yesterday.
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 09:27:56 +0200, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:

> >PS: This is a highly personal opinion, and I know I am a minority with
> >it even in this group, so do not take it personally!

> Well I never cared for Doom either and anyone here can take it as
> personally as they would like. :)

> I don't know if it was actually a better game, but I had more fun with
> Heretic then Doom.

Heretic was fun. What about Hexen?
--
"Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers." --Galatians 6:10! Dallas' horses failed 2 buck & stomp Boston's green men again & 2 many videos yesterday.
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

On 6/10/24 10:08, Werner P. wrote:
> Am 10.06.24 um 09:07 schrieb JAB:
>> On 10/06/2024 01:43, Justisaur wrote:
>>> On 6/9/2024 5:06 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>>>> There's a trailer video here:
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tk8lkmYGWQ
>>>
>>> That looks really cool.  Shotgun, Hordes of enemies, Boss enemies,
>>> Captain America shield, Mech, riding a dragon.
>>>
>>> I haven't really been interested in Doom since the original, maybe 2
>>> it was so long ago.  This looks really good, but I'll wait until it's
>>> out and reviewed by real people.
>>>
>>
>> Doom is one of those games I've never really played. I missed it first
>> time around and did play a bit of one of the later versions, can't
>> remember which one, but I can't say the gameplay grabbed me.
>>
>>
> The game, the original, when it came out was refreshing and new and
> really hit a nerve
> a ton of that had to do with the dark humor (chainsaw) and the music by
> nine inch nails.
> Technically the game shined with its fluid 3d but basically other games
> were way more technically advanced. But braindead action itches a nerve
> in many people and doom filled that void back then on the pc side
> perfectly, and from there it became a cultural phenomenon due to press
> reports!
> Not sure whether it is worthwhile to play any of the sequels, if you
> love shooters then probably yes, if you are like my relatively annoyed
> by the endless streams of shooters since Doom which were the doom (pun
> intended) of many other more cerebral genres, then definitely not!
>

Doom 1 music was composed by Robert Prince.
Trent Reznor (NIN) composed the music for Quake (my favorite game ever).

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 19:41:04 +0100, Sandro Santos
<sandro.santos@posteo.net> wrote:

>On 6/10/24 10:08, Werner P. wrote:
>> Am 10.06.24 um 09:07 schrieb JAB:
>>> On 10/06/2024 01:43, Justisaur wrote:
>>>> On 6/9/2024 5:06 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>>>>> There's a trailer video here:
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tk8lkmYGWQ
>>>>
>>>> That looks really cool.  Shotgun, Hordes of enemies, Boss enemies,
>>>> Captain America shield, Mech, riding a dragon.
>>>>
>>>> I haven't really been interested in Doom since the original, maybe 2
>>>> it was so long ago.  This looks really good, but I'll wait until it's
>>>> out and reviewed by real people.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Doom is one of those games I've never really played. I missed it first
>>> time around and did play a bit of one of the later versions, can't
>>> remember which one, but I can't say the gameplay grabbed me.
>>>
>>>
>> The game, the original, when it came out was refreshing and new and
>> really hit a nerve
>> a ton of that had to do with the dark humor (chainsaw) and the music by
>> nine inch nails.
>> Technically the game shined with its fluid 3d but basically other games
>> were way more technically advanced. But braindead action itches a nerve
>> in many people and doom filled that void back then on the pc side
>> perfectly, and from there it became a cultural phenomenon due to press
>> reports!
>> Not sure whether it is worthwhile to play any of the sequels, if you
>> love shooters then probably yes, if you are like my relatively annoyed
>> by the endless streams of shooters since Doom which were the doom (pun
>> intended) of many other more cerebral genres, then definitely not!
>>
>
>Doom 1 music was composed by Robert Prince.
>Trent Reznor (NIN) composed the music for Quake (my favorite game ever).

Damn it! I wanted to do the pedantic 'but actually!' bit about the
music!

(although I half-suspect Jab wrote that just to trigger people like
me. Mission accomplished, if so ;-)

Between the two, the Doom music was always my preferred soundtrack.
Still, I can't say I rank it amongst my favorite game-music. I liked a
more orchestral style; perhaps if it had a few more choral aaaahhhhs.
;-)

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 09:27:13 +0200, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:

>Am 10.06.24 um 02:06 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
>> I mean, I'd still rather the industry stop relying on old IPs as a
>> crutch and create new stuff instead, but I can't deny/some/ interest
>> in this game. But the fact that it's yet-another-sequel does push it
>> back from instant 'must buy' to 'we'll see, maybe when its on sale or
>> part of HumbleBundle'.
>I stopped playing doom after Doom 1...
>I have not missed anything, YMMV, but for me this was a one time event
>where a ton of things came together, but shooters are generally not my
>favorite kind of thing. I personally from a technical achievement would
>rate Ultima Underworld and System Shock way higher, but Doom with its
>nob brain shooter elements was longer lasting and spawned more or less
>as initial explotion an entire genre of dumb shooters...

I don't know if I'd rank "Underworld" a higher technical achievement
than "Doom". Both games were aiming for different things, after all.

Do not mistake me; I love "Underworld" and I greatly admire it, both
for its technical achievements and for its gameplay. And in some
respects, yes, "Underworld" was superior to Carmack's "Doom" engine.
But in other respects, "Doom" -specifically, its ability to render
full-screen first-person action at a blistering framerate- was
incredibly impressive, and surpassed Looking Glass's (well, Blue Sky
Software, at the time) efforts.

TL;DR: it's an apple-to-oranges comparison and I think both engines
were great at what they did, neither superior nor inferior to the
other. ;-)

That said: there's one game I still play more regularly than the
other... and as much as I love "Underworld", it got a lot less
playtime in 2024 than "Doom".

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 18:35:18 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:

>Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 09:27:56 +0200, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:
>
>> >PS: This is a highly personal opinion, and I know I am a minority with
>> >it even in this group, so do not take it personally!
>
>> Well I never cared for Doom either and anyone here can take it as
>> personally as they would like. :)
>
>> I don't know if it was actually a better game, but I had more fun with
>> Heretic then Doom.
>
>Heretic was fun. What about Hexen?

"Hexen" got a bad rap, but I loved it. Not so much for the gameplay
but for its (then-unique-to-FPS-games) class system, its levels with
recognizable themes, and terrific atmosphere. "Wolfenstein 3D",
"Doom", "Heretic" and their endless clones... their levels were often
mazes that bore little resemblance to anything EXCEPT a labyrinth that
existed soley because it was required for a game. But "Hexen 3D" (and
other 'next generation' Doom-clones, including "Dark Forces" and "Duke
Nukem 3D", pushed forward the idea that levels could be more than
mazes.

The best thing I can say about "Hexen" was that, at times, it reminded
me of playing a tabletop roleplaying game. Obviously not because of
the style of gameplay, but it had the same atmosphere; the same feel
of creeping through a dungeon. "Heretic" never managed that.

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 18:34:55 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:

>Just be sure it has good MIDI. FM MIDI sucks. ;)

I may not be a fan of DOOM but I like the soundtrack. I have the
Roland SC-55 midi version in my collection. I agree, FM midi sucks.

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 18:35:18 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:

>Heretic was fun. What about Hexen?

I never played it but I may have liked that as well.

On 10/06/2024 23:42, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> Damn it! I wanted to do the pedantic 'but actually!' bit about the
> music!
>
> (although I half-suspect Jab wrote that just to trigger people like
> me. Mission accomplished, if so 😉

Can I be pedantic and 'well actually' I didn't say anything about the
music :-)

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 20:56:36 -0400, Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 18:34:55 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
>
>>Just be sure it has good MIDI. FM MIDI sucks. ;)
>
>I may not be a fan of DOOM but I like the soundtrack. I have the
>Roland SC-55 midi version in my collection. I agree, FM midi sucks.

You guys are cracking me up.

Not sure if you realize that at least half of all the best selling
commercial music of the 1980s that utilized synthesizers made
extensive use of FM synthesis in combination with MIDI?

(There isn't really such a thing as "FM MIDI"... Frequency Modulation
(FM) is the method of synthesis, and has nothing to do with the note
data (MIDI) that plays the sound).

I'm assuming here what you're discussing that sucks is likely the
sonic characteristics of specific sound cards or devices that just
happened to be based on FM? Yes some of those can sound tinny but
that is not necessarily a characteristic of Frequency Modulation as a
synthesis method.

Also, many of the warmest/richest sounding subtractive analog
synthesizers can do FM. This only refers to modulating one oscillator
with another, effectively establishing the carrier/modulator
relationship that FM synths are based on.

By default and if the sound designer doesn't know what they are doing,
or if the signal path is crap, FM sounds can be harsh and metallic
sounding.

Listen to the pad that comes in at about 11 seconds in. A Yamaha DX7
(FM synth) was used for this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RUIeX6UCT8

On 6/10/2024 3:55 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 18:35:18 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
>
>> Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 09:27:56 +0200, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:
>>
>>>> PS: This is a highly personal opinion, and I know I am a minority with
>>>> it even in this group, so do not take it personally!
>>
>>> Well I never cared for Doom either and anyone here can take it as
>>> personally as they would like. :)
>>
>>> I don't know if it was actually a better game, but I had more fun with
>>> Heretic then Doom.
>>
>> Heretic was fun. What about Hexen?
>
> "Hexen" got a bad rap, but I loved it. Not so much for the gameplay
> but for its (then-unique-to-FPS-games) class system, its levels with
> recognizable themes, and terrific atmosphere. "Wolfenstein 3D",
> "Doom", "Heretic" and their endless clones... their levels were often
> mazes that bore little resemblance to anything EXCEPT a labyrinth that
> existed soley because it was required for a game. But "Hexen 3D" (and
> other 'next generation' Doom-clones, including "Dark Forces" and "Duke
> Nukem 3D", pushed forward the idea that levels could be more than
> mazes.
>

Oh man, I forgot about all those clones. All those you mention were
great. Doom has a special place as it was the thing that really
launched that type of play, but actual game-play wise I lied all those
better.

> The best thing I can say about "Hexen" was that, at times, it reminded
> me of playing a tabletop roleplaying game. Obviously not because of
> the style of gameplay, but it had the same atmosphere; the same feel
> of creeping through a dungeon. "Heretic" never managed that.

*Nods sagely*

--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
(\_/)\
`-'\ `--.___,
¶¬'\( ,_.-'
\\
^'

On 6/10/2024 11:41 AM, Sandro Santos wrote:
> On 6/10/24 10:08, Werner P. wrote:
>> Am 10.06.24 um 09:07 schrieb JAB:
>>> On 10/06/2024 01:43, Justisaur wrote:
>>>> On 6/9/2024 5:06 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>>>>> There's a trailer video here:
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tk8lkmYGWQ
>>>>
>>>> That looks really cool.  Shotgun, Hordes of enemies, Boss enemies,
>>>> Captain America shield, Mech, riding a dragon.
>>>>
>>>> I haven't really been interested in Doom since the original, maybe 2
>>>> it was so long ago.  This looks really good, but I'll wait until
>>>> it's out and reviewed by real people.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Doom is one of those games I've never really played. I missed it
>>> first time around and did play a bit of one of the later versions,
>>> can't remember which one, but I can't say the gameplay grabbed me.
>>>
>>>
>> The game, the original, when it came out was refreshing and new and
>> really hit a nerve
>> a ton of that had to do with the dark humor (chainsaw) and the music
>> by nine inch nails.
>> Technically the game shined with its fluid 3d but basically other
>> games were way more technically advanced. But braindead action itches
>> a nerve in many people and doom filled that void back then on the pc
>> side perfectly, and from there it became a cultural phenomenon due to
>> press reports!
>> Not sure whether it is worthwhile to play any of the sequels, if you
>> love shooters then probably yes, if you are like my relatively annoyed
>> by the endless streams of shooters since Doom which were the doom (pun
>> intended) of many other more cerebral genres, then definitely not!
>>
>
> Doom 1 music was composed by Robert Prince.
> Trent Reznor (NIN) composed the music for Quake (my favorite game ever).
>

That's about the only thing I really liked about Quake.

--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
(\_/)\
`-'\ `--.___,
¶¬'\( ,_.-'
\\
^'

Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the
porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 09:27:56 +0200, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:
>
>>PS: This is a highly personal opinion, and I know I am a minority with
>>it even in this group, so do not take it personally!
>
>Well I never cared for Doom either and anyone here can take it as
>personally as they would like. :)
>
>I don't know if it was actually a better game, but I had more fun with
>Heretic then Doom.

Ahh I remember ripping the "melee weapon" from Heretic and Sticking it
in DOOM, so instead of the chainsaw you had that electric hands thing
graphically.

Other than that, Heretic was a bit meh.

Xocyll

ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 09:27:56 +0200, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:
>
>> >PS: This is a highly personal opinion, and I know I am a minority with
>> >it even in this group, so do not take it personally!
>
>> Well I never cared for Doom either and anyone here can take it as
>> personally as they would like. :)
>
>> I don't know if it was actually a better game, but I had more fun with
>> Heretic then Doom.
>
>Heretic was fun. What about Hexen?

Too much walking back and forth through an area you'd already cleared to
get to another "wing" of the area.

Only game that was worse for that was Pool of Radiance 2.

Nothing like repeatedly walking through utterly empty areas just to get
somewhere else to continue playing the game.

Xocyll

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> looked up from reading the
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
say:

>On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 09:27:13 +0200, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:
>
>>Am 10.06.24 um 02:06 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
>>> I mean, I'd still rather the industry stop relying on old IPs as a
>>> crutch and create new stuff instead, but I can't deny/some/ interest
>>> in this game. But the fact that it's yet-another-sequel does push it
>>> back from instant 'must buy' to 'we'll see, maybe when its on sale or
>>> part of HumbleBundle'.
>>I stopped playing doom after Doom 1...
>>I have not missed anything, YMMV, but for me this was a one time event
>>where a ton of things came together, but shooters are generally not my
>>favorite kind of thing. I personally from a technical achievement would
>>rate Ultima Underworld and System Shock way higher, but Doom with its
>>nob brain shooter elements was longer lasting and spawned more or less
>>as initial explotion an entire genre of dumb shooters...
>
>I don't know if I'd rank "Underworld" a higher technical achievement
>than "Doom". Both games were aiming for different things, after all.
>
>Do not mistake me; I love "Underworld" and I greatly admire it, both
>for its technical achievements and for its gameplay. And in some
>respects, yes, "Underworld" was superior to Carmack's "Doom" engine.
>But in other respects, "Doom" -specifically, its ability to render
>full-screen first-person action at a blistering framerate- was
>incredibly impressive, and surpassed Looking Glass's (well, Blue Sky
>Software, at the time) efforts.

Underworld was actual 3d, vs the looks 3d but is actually 2d DOOM.
Remember inching the shotgun (or other weapon) over a pixel at a time
until it would shoot "up" at the imp on the balcony, instead of straight
ahead into the wall?

Hell you could aim in UUW, and fly as I recall, plus an automap function
that let you write notes on it.

It's not merely more advanced, it's Godzilla vs a cockroach more
advanced.

>TL;DR: it's an apple-to-oranges comparison and I think both engines
>were great at what they did, neither superior nor inferior to the
>other. ;-)

The doom engine was inferior since it wasn't actually 3d and it showed
many times with the aiming issues.

The same issue happened with Duke Nukem3D vs Quake - the quake engine
was superior, actual 3d, but Duke was more fun, and a hell of a lot less
brown. Making it the better game despite the inferior engine

>That said: there's one game I still play more regularly than the
>other... and as much as I love "Underworld", it got a lot less
>playtime in 2024 than "Doom".

You play the original 1993 doom, or one of the remakes though?

Not everyone has an ancient machine to play ancient dos era games on.

Xocyll

On 6/11/24 12:29, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 20:56:36 -0400, Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 18:34:55 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
>>
>>> Just be sure it has good MIDI. FM MIDI sucks. ;)
>>
>> I may not be a fan of DOOM but I like the soundtrack. I have the
>> Roland SC-55 midi version in my collection. I agree, FM midi sucks.
>
> You guys are cracking me up.
>
> Not sure if you realize that at least half of all the best selling
> commercial music of the 1980s that utilized synthesizers made
> extensive use of FM synthesis in combination with MIDI?
>
> (There isn't really such a thing as "FM MIDI"... Frequency Modulation
> (FM) is the method of synthesis, and has nothing to do with the note
> data (MIDI) that plays the sound).
>
> I'm assuming here what you're discussing that sucks is likely the
> sonic characteristics of specific sound cards or devices that just
> happened to be based on FM? Yes some of those can sound tinny but
> that is not necessarily a characteristic of Frequency Modulation as a
> synthesis method.
>
> Also, many of the warmest/richest sounding subtractive analog
> synthesizers can do FM. This only refers to modulating one oscillator
> with another, effectively establishing the carrier/modulator
> relationship that FM synths are based on.
>
> By default and if the sound designer doesn't know what they are doing,
> or if the signal path is crap, FM sounds can be harsh and metallic
> sounding.
>
> Listen to the pad that comes in at about 11 seconds in. A Yamaha DX7
> (FM synth) was used for this:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RUIeX6UCT8

This guy synths :)
Great post.
I've been using FM synths for some decades (Yamaha TX7, DX21, DX7) and
in the right hands, can sound wonderful.
Even OPL can sound great (Monkey Island, Dune 2, Tyrian, etc)
Cheers

On Tue, 11 Jun 2024 07:29:43 -0400, Rin Stowleigh
<rstowleigh@x-nospam-x.com> wrote:

>You guys are cracking me up.
>
>Not sure if you realize that at least half of all the best selling
>commercial music of the 1980s that utilized synthesizers made
>extensive use of FM synthesis in combination with MIDI?
>
>(There isn't really such a thing as "FM MIDI"... Frequency Modulation
>(FM) is the method of synthesis, and has nothing to do with the note
>data (MIDI) that plays the sound).
>
>I'm assuming here what you're discussing that sucks is likely the
>sonic characteristics of specific sound cards or devices that just
>happened to be based on FM? Yes some of those can sound tinny but
>that is not necessarily a characteristic of Frequency Modulation as a
>synthesis method.

To me, (and I suspect to video gamers in general who played PC video
games in the 80s and 90s) 'FM MIDI' generally refers to what you get
on a stock SoundBlaster card... which usually sounds terrible.