On Fri, 26 Apr 2024 19:19:33 +0200, Kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 4/26/2024 5:06 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

>> Origins aside, I don't know if "Industria" is slavjank... but I
>> wouldn't be entirely disappointed if it was.

>how would you define slavjank?

Hmm... let's see. What is slavjank? I guess I would describe it as a
video game (usually FPS but not necessarily; RTS games and workplace
sims are also common) developed in Eastern Europe, particularly in
parts of the former Soviet Union (Russia, Ukraine). (Thus the 'Slav-'
prefix).

Visuals are usually above-average. The games tend to suffer from a
certain lack of polish (hence, the -jank* suffix). This can take a
variety of forms: it could be balancing issues, or weird difficulty
curves, or imprecise controls. There's often a number of translation
issues too. A lot of the games have bugs, often game-breaking. But
they also often are slightly ahead of the curve in experimenting with
new mechanics. Slavjank games tend to come from small to medium sized
publishers.

Slavjank games also - due to their origins - tend to have a dour and
pessimistic atmosphere. They often take place in vaguely Russian
locales, so expect lots of brutalist architecture. There is often
tongue-in-cheek humor but the overall impression you get is not of a
hopeful, happy world.

Slavjank games were a lot more common in the mid 2000s and early
2010s. Some examples include "You Are Empty", "Codename: Outbreak",
"Ubersoldier", "Creed", "Chrome" and even (arguably) "STALKER: Shadow
of Chernobyl". I've even seen "Cyberpunk 2020" included in the
category (mostly due to its very rough release; I think most of its
critics would agree it doesn't deserve that anymore).

Slavjank games filled an important niche; they were mid-tier titles.
Not having the huge budgets that Western games benefited from, they
still punched above their weight class, offering interesting (if
flawed) experiences. I mostly enjoyed them because they offered an
interesting contrast to the gung-ho, 'we alone can save the world'
viewpoints that was so common to mid 2000s FPS games. They often were
as much about just surviving, struggling not to sink any deeper, as
they were about achieving any overall quest. They were a nice change
of pace and I appreciated them for that.

So... is "Industria" slavjank? I honestly don't know. I have no idea
where its developers - Bleakmill Ltd. - are based. Not having played
the game (yet), I can't tell you much about the quality of the game,
and whether its buggy, poorly localised, or if its game mechanics are
well balanced. But it does have some nice looking visuals, it is set
in Eastern Berlin prior to the collapse of the Soviet Union, and it
certainly isn't created by an A-tier developer. That's why I said that
even though it may not, definitionally be a slavjank game, it (at
least superficially) reminds me of one.

Does "Industria" deserve the moniker? I honestly don't know. I don't
entirely see the "slavjank" categorization entirely as a negative
(it's more a warning not to set your expectations too high). But it
can also indicate that the game will not be the normal power-fantasy
western FPS. If "Industria" isn't slavjank? That's fine; I'll
appreciate not having to deal with its bugs or weird controls. And if
it is? That's cool too; I'll enjoy playing something different and
weird.

* derived from 'janky': (adjective) 'of poor quality', 'not
functioning properly or adequately', 'faulty' or 'junky'.

On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 09:44:07 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

>Slavjank games were a lot more common in the mid 2000s and early
>2010s. Some examples include "You Are Empty", "Codename: Outbreak",
>"Ubersoldier", "Creed", "Chrome" and even (arguably) "STALKER: Shadow
>of Chernobyl". I've even seen "Cyberpunk 2020" included in the
>category (mostly due to its very rough release; I think most of its
>critics would agree it doesn't deserve that anymore).

I would throw the "Metro" games on that pile too, as well as
"Ghostrunner."

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 12:04:17 -0500, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 09:44:07 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
>Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>
>>Slavjank games were a lot more common in the mid 2000s and early
>>2010s. Some examples include "You Are Empty", "Codename: Outbreak",
>>"Ubersoldier", "Creed", "Chrome" and even (arguably) "STALKER: Shadow
>>of Chernobyl". I've even seen "Cyberpunk 2020" included in the
>>category (mostly due to its very rough release; I think most of its
>>critics would agree it doesn't deserve that anymore).
>
>I would throw the "Metro" games on that pile too, as well as
>"Ghostrunner."

I personally wouldn't, but what is and isn't slavjank is open to
interpretation, depending on where you draw the line for 'jank'.
Personally, I think that the Metro games - and the later STALKER games
for that matter - were well-made enough that they don't deserve that
designation, but I can understand that others may disagree.

Similarly, while I didn't /enjoy/ "Ghostrunner" I think that's more
because it's targeted at an entirely different audience than the one I
am in. I think it's trying to be a very specific type of game aimed at
a very specific type of audience, and - in my opinion - it achieved
its goals. It's a game for people who enjoy the challenges of
speedrunning; a game for people who get off on mastering the
mechanical and technical aspects of a perfectly timed run through a
level. That's not me, but just because I don't enjoy it doesn't make
the game janky. Just different.

(Also, as far as I know, the Ghostrunner devs are based in Denmark.
That would make their game Eurojank - or Danejank? - and not Slavjank.
Fortunately, the world is wide enough to support multiple types of
jankitude. ;-)

But YMMV. Jank is in the eye of the beholder. If it's jank to you, who
am I to argue? ;-)

On 4/28/2024 10:07 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>
> (Also, as far as I know, the Ghostrunner devs are based in Denmark.
> That would make their game Eurojank - or Danejank? - and not Slavjank.
> Fortunately, the world is wide enough to support multiple types of
> jankitude. ;-)
>
Scandajank. :) Culturally Scandinavia is noticeable different than
Central Europe.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On Sun, 28 Apr 2024 13:07:46 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

>On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 12:04:17 -0500, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 09:44:07 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
>>Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>>
>>>Slavjank games were a lot more common in the mid 2000s and early
>>>2010s. Some examples include "You Are Empty", "Codename: Outbreak",
>>>"Ubersoldier", "Creed", "Chrome" and even (arguably) "STALKER: Shadow
>>>of Chernobyl". I've even seen "Cyberpunk 2020" included in the
>>>category (mostly due to its very rough release; I think most of its
>>>critics would agree it doesn't deserve that anymore).
>>
>>I would throw the "Metro" games on that pile too, as well as
>>"Ghostrunner."
>
>I personally wouldn't, but what is and isn't slavjank is open to
>interpretation, depending on where you draw the line for 'jank'.
>Personally, I think that the Metro games - and the later STALKER games
>for that matter - were well-made enough that they don't deserve that
>designation, but I can understand that others may disagree.
>
>Similarly, while I didn't /enjoy/ "Ghostrunner" I think that's more
>because it's targeted at an entirely different audience than the one I
>am in. I think it's trying to be a very specific type of game aimed at
>a very specific type of audience, and - in my opinion - it achieved
>its goals. It's a game for people who enjoy the challenges of
>speedrunning; a game for people who get off on mastering the
>mechanical and technical aspects of a perfectly timed run through a
>level. That's not me, but just because I don't enjoy it doesn't make
>the game janky. Just different.
>
>(Also, as far as I know, the Ghostrunner devs are based in Denmark.
>That would make their game Eurojank - or Danejank? - and not Slavjank.
>Fortunately, the world is wide enough to support multiple types of
>jankitude. ;-)
>
>But YMMV. Jank is in the eye of the beholder. If it's jank to you, who
>am I to argue? ;-)
>
>
Ooh. Remember "Hard Reset?"

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

On Tue, 30 Apr 2024 17:31:43 -0500, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>On Sun, 28 Apr 2024 13:07:46 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
>Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

>>But YMMV. Jank is in the eye of the beholder. If it's jank to you, who
>>am I to argue? ;-)

>Ooh. Remember "Hard Reset?"

Vaguely. I remember unexciting gameplay and pretty graphics. Assuming
its origins are from the appropriate geographic region, it would
probably fit well within the constraints of Slavjank.

There was also "Hard Truck: Apocalypse". That one is /definitely/
Slavjank (it's developers were Russian) and although it was
conceptually a very good idea, it wasn't much fun to actually play.