I'm amused.

Normally we gamers decry publishers who abandon their games,
especially when their products are left in a sorry, buggy state. 'Fix
the damn game,' we cry. But this time, it's the reverse:

"Fallout 4 Fans Are Begging Bethesda To Stop Updating The Game"
https://kotaku.com/fallout-4-new-update-next-gen-patch-stop-bethesda-mods-1851473401

And the thing is, I can't blame gamers for this sudden reversal.
"Fallout 4" was released ten years ago, and - while it remains as
incredibly bug-ridden as any Bethesda product - fans and modders have
worked around these problems. Bethesda's newest patches aren't making
things better... they're making things worse. Their updates are not
only breaking mods, they're actually adding new bugs.

You'd think Bethesda - well aware that it's the MODS that keep their
products relevant and popular - would know this. Breaking mods isn't
to their benefit. If you make it so your already buggy games aren't
seen as a stable modding platform, modders will stop working on it...
and then Bethesda games will have the same flash-in-the popularity as
other games. Ensuring that mods function reliably should be a priority
for the company.

And yet, here we are.

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote at 14:43 this Tuesday (GMT):
>
> I'm amused.
>
> Normally we gamers decry publishers who abandon their games,
> especially when their products are left in a sorry, buggy state. 'Fix
> the damn game,' we cry. But this time, it's the reverse:
>
> "Fallout 4 Fans Are Begging Bethesda To Stop Updating The Game"
> https://kotaku.com/fallout-4-new-update-next-gen-patch-stop-bethesda-mods-1851473401
>
> And the thing is, I can't blame gamers for this sudden reversal.
> "Fallout 4" was released ten years ago, and - while it remains as
> incredibly bug-ridden as any Bethesda product - fans and modders have
> worked around these problems. Bethesda's newest patches aren't making
> things better... they're making things worse. Their updates are not
> only breaking mods, they're actually adding new bugs.
>
> You'd think Bethesda - well aware that it's the MODS that keep their
> products relevant and popular - would know this. Breaking mods isn't
> to their benefit. If you make it so your already buggy games aren't
> seen as a stable modding platform, modders will stop working on it...
> and then Bethesda games will have the same flash-in-the popularity as
> other games. Ensuring that mods function reliably should be a priority
> for the company.
>
> And yet, here we are.

Reminds me of Nintendo, actually. Minus the bugs.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 5/14/2024 7:43 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>
> I'm amused.
>
> Normally we gamers decry publishers who abandon their games,
> especially when their products are left in a sorry, buggy state. 'Fix
> the damn game,' we cry. But this time, it's the reverse:
>
> "Fallout 4 Fans Are Begging Bethesda To Stop Updating The Game"
> https://kotaku.com/fallout-4-new-update-next-gen-patch-stop-bethesda-mods-1851473401
>
> And the thing is, I can't blame gamers for this sudden reversal.
> "Fallout 4" was released ten years ago, and - while it remains as
> incredibly bug-ridden as any Bethesda product - fans and modders have
> worked around these problems. Bethesda's newest patches aren't making
> things better... they're making things worse. Their updates are not
> only breaking mods, they're actually adding new bugs.
>
> You'd think Bethesda - well aware that it's the MODS that keep their
> products relevant and popular - would know this. Breaking mods isn't
> to their benefit. If you make it so your already buggy games aren't
> seen as a stable modding platform, modders will stop working on it...
> and then Bethesda games will have the same flash-in-the popularity as
> other games. Ensuring that mods function reliably should be a priority
> for the company.
>
> And yet, here we are.
>
Knowing that fan-made mods are what keep the game's audience and
_liking_ having to depend on fan-made mods to keep the game's audience
are two different things. And the kind of people who become C-level
executives are more concerned about what _they like_ than what actually
works. ;)

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 14/05/2024 15:43, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>
> I'm amused.
>
> Normally we gamers decry publishers who abandon their games,
> especially when their products are left in a sorry, buggy state. 'Fix
> the damn game,' we cry. But this time, it's the reverse:
>
> "Fallout 4 Fans Are Begging Bethesda To Stop Updating The Game"
> https://kotaku.com/fallout-4-new-update-next-gen-patch-stop-bethesda-mods-1851473401
>
> And the thing is, I can't blame gamers for this sudden reversal.
> "Fallout 4" was released ten years ago, and - while it remains as
> incredibly bug-ridden as any Bethesda product - fans and modders have
> worked around these problems. Bethesda's newest patches aren't making
> things better... they're making things worse. Their updates are not
> only breaking mods, they're actually adding new bugs.
>
> You'd think Bethesda - well aware that it's the MODS that keep their
> products relevant and popular - would know this. Breaking mods isn't
> to their benefit. If you make it so your already buggy games aren't
> seen as a stable modding platform, modders will stop working on it...
> and then Bethesda games will have the same flash-in-the popularity as
> other games. Ensuring that mods function reliably should be a priority
> for the company.
>
> And yet, here we are.
>

I can kinda understand someone thinking of ways to cash in on the
Fallout TV series but the way that went about it just seems barmy.

On Tue, 14 May 2024 17:59:08 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

>On 5/14/2024 7:43 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>>
>> I'm amused.
>>
>> Normally we gamers decry publishers who abandon their games,
>> especially when their products are left in a sorry, buggy state. 'Fix
>> the damn game,' we cry. But this time, it's the reverse:
>>
>> "Fallout 4 Fans Are Begging Bethesda To Stop Updating The Game"
>> https://kotaku.com/fallout-4-new-update-next-gen-patch-stop-bethesda-mods-1851473401
>>
>> And the thing is, I can't blame gamers for this sudden reversal.
>> "Fallout 4" was released ten years ago, and - while it remains as
>> incredibly bug-ridden as any Bethesda product - fans and modders have
>> worked around these problems. Bethesda's newest patches aren't making
>> things better... they're making things worse. Their updates are not
>> only breaking mods, they're actually adding new bugs.
>>
>> You'd think Bethesda - well aware that it's the MODS that keep their
>> products relevant and popular - would know this. Breaking mods isn't
>> to their benefit. If you make it so your already buggy games aren't
>> seen as a stable modding platform, modders will stop working on it...
>> and then Bethesda games will have the same flash-in-the popularity as
>> other games. Ensuring that mods function reliably should be a priority
>> for the company.
>>
>> And yet, here we are.
>>
>Knowing that fan-made mods are what keep the game's audience and
>_liking_ having to depend on fan-made mods to keep the game's audience
>are two different things. And the kind of people who become C-level
>executives are more concerned about what _they like_ than what actually
>works. ;)

Especially since - if I'm playing a ten-year old game with mods, that
means I'm NOT playing the new game just released. How is Bethesda
supposed to make money if I don't buy EVERY game they release?

Especially since those greedy players seem opposed to paying Bethesda
for the privilege of playing third-party mods.

Now, I actually do not think this is the logic Bethesda is using
(Capcom, on the other hand...) since the company is well aware that
their reputation and livelihood depends on the modability of their
games. It certainly isn't the storylines (or characters, or gameplay
mechanics, or high-end visuals, or stable code, or...). It /used/ to
be the size of their game-worlds, but now that every developer and
their dog is releasing games with maps hundreds of square kilometers
in size, even THAT isn't a defining feature of their game. So what
reason to pick the next "Fallout" or "Skyrim" over its competitors
OTHER than its robust mod support and legions of fans willing to
create third-party content? Very little.

So I don't actually believe Bethesda is trying to sabotage their
games. In fact, I think they earnestly believed these updates would be
cheerfully appreciated by the fans.

I just don't think a lot of forethought was given to the effects these
patches would have. The updates were released in such a shoddy shape
not out of need for the game but because the unexpected success of the
TV show necessitated they do /something/. It was economics, not design
that motivated the decision.

On 5/14/2024 7:43 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>
> I'm amused.
>
> Normally we gamers decry publishers who abandon their games,
> especially when their products are left in a sorry, buggy state. 'Fix
> the damn game,' we cry. But this time, it's the reverse:
>
> "Fallout 4 Fans Are Begging Bethesda To Stop Updating The Game"
> https://kotaku.com/fallout-4-new-update-next-gen-patch-stop-bethesda-mods-1851473401
>
> And the thing is, I can't blame gamers for this sudden reversal.
> "Fallout 4" was released ten years ago, and - while it remains as
> incredibly bug-ridden as any Bethesda product - fans and modders have
> worked around these problems. Bethesda's newest patches aren't making
> things better... they're making things worse. Their updates are not
> only breaking mods, they're actually adding new bugs.
>
> You'd think Bethesda - well aware that it's the MODS that keep their
> products relevant and popular - would know this. Breaking mods isn't
> to their benefit. If you make it so your already buggy games aren't
> seen as a stable modding platform, modders will stop working on it...
> and then Bethesda games will have the same flash-in-the popularity as
> other games. Ensuring that mods function reliably should be a priority
> for the company.
>
> And yet, here we are.

You know what the first mod you install for Fallout 3 is? One to put
the version 2 back from the latest Bethesda put out. (fortunately the
GoG version is already at that version.) Most of the mods I played with
the first time when it was first out were never even updated to that
version though, and won't work, and there isn't a good replacement for
them.

Pretty much the same with Skyrim where they keep realasing new versions
to try to sell the game again, which is even worse. Bethesda's been
doing this at least since FO3.

I expect modders will try to do a downgrade mod with Fallout 4 like they
did with Fallout 3.

That's actually the reason I stopped playing Cyberpunk 2077 and Baldur's
Gate. Both need some mods badly, but they also do need the updates, and
the updates are breaking mods, so I'm waiting for them to cool down.
C77's last update was 2 months ago, so maybe they're cooled down enough
to play with mods.

I also find it really annoying that they keep doing the updates, but
don't address things that have been broken since day one. The C77
common one makes cyberware slots stops dropping long before they're
supposed to resulting in a gimped character you may have to go very far
back in the game or just start over and hope it doesn't happen again.

The list of bugs fixed in Fallout 3 by the unofficial patch is
practically a book.

--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
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