Do you remember Steam Link? Odds are, probably not. It was a
brief-lived hardware device released by Valve in the mid 2010s; a sort
of cheaper alternative to the even shorter-lived 'Steam Machine' PCs
that ran an early version of SteamOS. The latter devices weren't made
by Valve directly; they were a partner program between Valve and
various PC OEMs (Alienware, Falcon Northwest, etc). in an attempt to
jump-start gaming on Linux.

[The whole escapade itself was a direct reaction to
Microsoft releasing an app store on Windows 8, which
threatened Steam's hegemony. Steam Machines were Valve
saying, 'try to encroach on PC gaming, Microsoft, and
we'll pull the whole market over to Linux, you just see
if we don't.' When the Microsoft App store proved such
a dismal flop, Valve felt safe in backing away.]

The SteamLink devices, though, were much simpler machines. With a slow
1GHz ARM processor, it was intended as a full-fledged computer but as
a set-top box that would stream games from a PC in another room to the
big screen TV in the living room. All it really let you do was run
Steam and games, and it required you to have a fairly hefty gaming PC
somewhere else nearby. It's main advantage was it's cost; it sold for
$50. Assuming you already did own a solid gaming rig, it was an
inexpensive way to get your games to the living room without having to
move your whole PC (with all the associated wiring and noise) out of
the study.

Steam Link --and indeed, the whole Steam Machines concept-- never
really caught on amongst gamers. The Steam Machines themselves were
too expensive and too underpowered to justify themselves, and
SteamLink never really found a market. I guess people who owned PCs
beefy enough to run games and stream it over the local network either
weren't interested in playing on the couch, or had the dosh to just
buy a second dedicated computer for that purpose. Steam Machines
disappeared from the Steam storefront in 2018, and SteamLink was
discontinued shortly afterwards.

Not before I got my hands on one, though. In the trailing days of the
device, they could be picked up for $5 USD, and I grabbed one at that
price. I never really _did_ anything with it though; I had no need. My
PC was already hooked up to a big-screen TV. But it was just too good
a deal to not take advantage of.

I was impressed with the hardware --and the packaging!-- but after a
few months of it hanging off the back of the living room computer, I
packed it away and there it say, all but forgotten in the back of the
Closet Of Old Hardware. Until today when, on a whim, I got it back
out.

I honestly didn't expect it to work. It's been seven years since I
touched the thing, and I assumed that either the hardware would have
failed, or the back-end software (e.g., Steam) would no longer be
compatible. But no; I plugged the thing in and it cheerfully came to
life. A few updates later (the latest released just a few weeks ago!),
and it was ready to go.

I paired the device with one of my older PCs (an old i5 with a GeForce
770 that I mainly keep around because it has hot-swappable drive bays
that makes it really useful for wiping/formatting old hard-drives) and
fired up "Alien Isolation". It ran a treat; except for the briefest
flash of the server's desktop when it first started, there was no
evidence that the game wasn't running in the same room. No compression
artifacts, no latency that I could tell. The little SteamLink device
didn't even get warm from the effort.

Which is to say, I'm _still_ impressed with the hardware. It's an
eminently capable little device.

With that said though, it became pretty obvious that -by the end of
the day- the thing was likely to end up back in its box in the closet
again. I just don't NEED it for what it does. If I ever really want to
play PC games regularly in the living room, I have the spare hardware
to just attach a proper PC. The fact that I'd have to keep a separate
PC running -probably all the time, on the off chance I'd want to
suddenly want to play- in the backroom doesn't endear me to the
SteamLink either. As much as I love the little device, it's an answer
to a problem I just don't have.

Still, props to Valve for still supporting the SteamLink six years
after they stopped selling it. I have to admit, I was surprised to see
it still working, and that simple joy made the effort of dusting off
the device worth it.

On 22/11/2024 20:41, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>
> Do you remember Steam Link? Odds are, probably not. It was a
> brief-lived hardware device released by Valve in the mid 2010s; a sort
> of cheaper alternative to the even shorter-lived 'Steam Machine' PCs
> that ran an early version of SteamOS. The latter devices weren't made
> by Valve directly; they were a partner program between Valve and
> various PC OEMs (Alienware, Falcon Northwest, etc). in an attempt to
> jump-start gaming on Linux.
>
>
> [The whole escapade itself was a direct reaction to
> Microsoft releasing an app store on Windows 8, which
> threatened Steam's hegemony. Steam Machines were Valve
> saying, 'try to encroach on PC gaming, Microsoft, and
> we'll pull the whole market over to Linux, you just see
> if we don't.' When the Microsoft App store proved such
> a dismal flop, Valve felt safe in backing away.]
>
>
> The SteamLink devices, though, were much simpler machines. With a slow
> 1GHz ARM processor, it was intended as a full-fledged computer but as
> a set-top box that would stream games from a PC in another room to the
> big screen TV in the living room. All it really let you do was run
> Steam and games, and it required you to have a fairly hefty gaming PC
> somewhere else nearby. It's main advantage was it's cost; it sold for
> $50. Assuming you already did own a solid gaming rig, it was an
> inexpensive way to get your games to the living room without having to
> move your whole PC (with all the associated wiring and noise) out of
> the study.
>
> Steam Link --and indeed, the whole Steam Machines concept-- never
> really caught on amongst gamers. The Steam Machines themselves were
> too expensive and too underpowered to justify themselves, and
> SteamLink never really found a market. I guess people who owned PCs
> beefy enough to run games and stream it over the local network either
> weren't interested in playing on the couch, or had the dosh to just
> buy a second dedicated computer for that purpose. Steam Machines
> disappeared from the Steam storefront in 2018, and SteamLink was
> discontinued shortly afterwards.
>
> Not before I got my hands on one, though. In the trailing days of the
> device, they could be picked up for $5 USD, and I grabbed one at that
> price. I never really _did_ anything with it though; I had no need. My
> PC was already hooked up to a big-screen TV. But it was just too good
> a deal to not take advantage of.
>
> I was impressed with the hardware --and the packaging!-- but after a
> few months of it hanging off the back of the living room computer, I
> packed it away and there it say, all but forgotten in the back of the
> Closet Of Old Hardware. Until today when, on a whim, I got it back
> out.
>
> I honestly didn't expect it to work. It's been seven years since I
> touched the thing, and I assumed that either the hardware would have
> failed, or the back-end software (e.g., Steam) would no longer be
> compatible. But no; I plugged the thing in and it cheerfully came to
> life. A few updates later (the latest released just a few weeks ago!),
> and it was ready to go.
>
> I paired the device with one of my older PCs (an old i5 with a GeForce
> 770 that I mainly keep around because it has hot-swappable drive bays
> that makes it really useful for wiping/formatting old hard-drives) and
> fired up "Alien Isolation". It ran a treat; except for the briefest
> flash of the server's desktop when it first started, there was no
> evidence that the game wasn't running in the same room. No compression
> artifacts, no latency that I could tell. The little SteamLink device
> didn't even get warm from the effort.
>
> Which is to say, I'm _still_ impressed with the hardware. It's an
> eminently capable little device.
>
> With that said though, it became pretty obvious that -by the end of
> the day- the thing was likely to end up back in its box in the closet
> again. I just don't NEED it for what it does. If I ever really want to
> play PC games regularly in the living room, I have the spare hardware
> to just attach a proper PC. The fact that I'd have to keep a separate
> PC running -probably all the time, on the off chance I'd want to
> suddenly want to play- in the backroom doesn't endear me to the
> SteamLink either. As much as I love the little device, it's an answer
> to a problem I just don't have.
>
> Still, props to Valve for still supporting the SteamLink six years
> after they stopped selling it. I have to admit, I was surprised to see
> it still working, and that simple joy made the effort of dusting off
> the device worth it.
>

I did think about getting one but found it hard to justify the price for
it and a Steam Controller. Saying that I did end up get the controller
when they were being flogged on the cheap to get rid of remaining stock.
I have used it a bit but then again it was only about £12 including p&p
so hard to complain.

Am 22.11.24 um 21:41 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
> Steam Link --and indeed, the whole Steam Machines concept-- never
> really caught on amongst gamers. The Steam Machines themselves were
> too expensive and too underpowered to justify themselves, and
> SteamLink never really found a market. I guess people who owned PCs
> beefy enough to run games and stream it over the local network either
> weren't interested in playing on the couch, or had the dosh to just
> buy a second dedicated computer for that purpose. Steam Machines
> disappeared from the Steam storefront in 2018, and SteamLink was
> discontinued shortly afterwards.
They simply were too early, SteamOS was not "ripe" enough to give a
decent console experience. Valve struck gold with the same concept with
the Steam Deck but given SteamOS now is relatively mature and the deck
did not repeat the main mistake of the Steam controller of forcing you
to use the right touchpad instead it always is optional!
Cannot wait for the Steam Controller 2 whoch should come out hopefully
next year!

On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 11:25:50 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:

>On 22/11/2024 20:41, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>>
>> Do you remember Steam Link? Odds are, probably not. It was a
>> brief-lived hardware device released by Valve in the mid 2010s; a sort
>> of cheaper alternative to the even shorter-lived 'Steam Machine' PCs
>> that ran an early version of SteamOS. The latter devices weren't made
>> by Valve directly; they were a partner program between Valve and
>> various PC OEMs (Alienware, Falcon Northwest, etc). in an attempt to
>> jump-start gaming on Linux.
>>
>>
>> [The whole escapade itself was a direct reaction to
>> Microsoft releasing an app store on Windows 8, which
>> threatened Steam's hegemony. Steam Machines were Valve
>> saying, 'try to encroach on PC gaming, Microsoft, and
>> we'll pull the whole market over to Linux, you just see
>> if we don't.' When the Microsoft App store proved such
>> a dismal flop, Valve felt safe in backing away.]
>>
>>
>> The SteamLink devices, though, were much simpler machines. With a slow
>> 1GHz ARM processor, it was intended as a full-fledged computer but as
>> a set-top box that would stream games from a PC in another room to the
>> big screen TV in the living room. All it really let you do was run
>> Steam and games, and it required you to have a fairly hefty gaming PC
>> somewhere else nearby. It's main advantage was it's cost; it sold for
>> $50. Assuming you already did own a solid gaming rig, it was an
>> inexpensive way to get your games to the living room without having to
>> move your whole PC (with all the associated wiring and noise) out of
>> the study.
>>
>> Steam Link --and indeed, the whole Steam Machines concept-- never
>> really caught on amongst gamers. The Steam Machines themselves were
>> too expensive and too underpowered to justify themselves, and
>> SteamLink never really found a market. I guess people who owned PCs
>> beefy enough to run games and stream it over the local network either
>> weren't interested in playing on the couch, or had the dosh to just
>> buy a second dedicated computer for that purpose. Steam Machines
>> disappeared from the Steam storefront in 2018, and SteamLink was
>> discontinued shortly afterwards.
>>
>> Not before I got my hands on one, though. In the trailing days of the
>> device, they could be picked up for $5 USD, and I grabbed one at that
>> price. I never really _did_ anything with it though; I had no need. My
>> PC was already hooked up to a big-screen TV. But it was just too good
>> a deal to not take advantage of.
>>
>> I was impressed with the hardware --and the packaging!-- but after a
>> few months of it hanging off the back of the living room computer, I
>> packed it away and there it say, all but forgotten in the back of the
>> Closet Of Old Hardware. Until today when, on a whim, I got it back
>> out.
>>
>> I honestly didn't expect it to work. It's been seven years since I
>> touched the thing, and I assumed that either the hardware would have
>> failed, or the back-end software (e.g., Steam) would no longer be
>> compatible. But no; I plugged the thing in and it cheerfully came to
>> life. A few updates later (the latest released just a few weeks ago!),
>> and it was ready to go.
>>
>> I paired the device with one of my older PCs (an old i5 with a GeForce
>> 770 that I mainly keep around because it has hot-swappable drive bays
>> that makes it really useful for wiping/formatting old hard-drives) and
>> fired up "Alien Isolation". It ran a treat; except for the briefest
>> flash of the server's desktop when it first started, there was no
>> evidence that the game wasn't running in the same room. No compression
>> artifacts, no latency that I could tell. The little SteamLink device
>> didn't even get warm from the effort.
>>
>> Which is to say, I'm _still_ impressed with the hardware. It's an
>> eminently capable little device.
>>
>> With that said though, it became pretty obvious that -by the end of
>> the day- the thing was likely to end up back in its box in the closet
>> again. I just don't NEED it for what it does. If I ever really want to
>> play PC games regularly in the living room, I have the spare hardware
>> to just attach a proper PC. The fact that I'd have to keep a separate
>> PC running -probably all the time, on the off chance I'd want to
>> suddenly want to play- in the backroom doesn't endear me to the
>> SteamLink either. As much as I love the little device, it's an answer
>> to a problem I just don't have.
>>
>> Still, props to Valve for still supporting the SteamLink six years
>> after they stopped selling it. I have to admit, I was surprised to see
>> it still working, and that simple joy made the effort of dusting off
>> the device worth it.
>>
>
>I did think about getting one but found it hard to justify the price for
>it and a Steam Controller. Saying that I did end up get the controller
>when they were being flogged on the cheap to get rid of remaining stock.
>I have used it a bit but then again it was only about £12 including p&p
>so hard to complain.

Yeah, if I'd had to buy the thing at its release price --$50USD-- I'd
never have touched the thing. But $5 was too good a price for me NOT
to get it. And, honestly, I think I got my money's worth; sure, it
doesnt' get everyday use, but the experience of tinkering around with
it gave me a few hours of fun. Maybe one day I'll even have actual use
for it too! Or, barring that, I could just sell it (they're going for
$50 to $100 USD on Ebay for in-box models today; just think how much
I'll get for one in twenty years ;-)

I grabbed a Steam Controller too some years back (also at a fire-sale
price). I'm less sanguine about that one; I didn't care for the
touchpad feature, and generally don't like using gamepads anyway. It's
shoved away in an even darker corner of the closet. Anyway, most of
the time I use a gamepad it's for playing PS2 games on the emulator,
so I prefer to use a gamepad that has the appropriate symbols (X,O,
square, triangle) on the buttons

On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 15:29:23 +0100, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:

>Am 22.11.24 um 21:41 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
>> Steam Link --and indeed, the whole Steam Machines concept-- never
>> really caught on amongst gamers. The Steam Machines themselves were
>> too expensive and too underpowered to justify themselves, and
>> SteamLink never really found a market. I guess people who owned PCs
>> beefy enough to run games and stream it over the local network either
>> weren't interested in playing on the couch, or had the dosh to just
>> buy a second dedicated computer for that purpose. Steam Machines
>> disappeared from the Steam storefront in 2018, and SteamLink was
>> discontinued shortly afterwards.
>They simply were too early, SteamOS was not "ripe" enough to give a
>decent console experience. Valve struck gold with the same concept with
>the Steam Deck but given SteamOS now is relatively mature and the deck
>did not repeat the main mistake of the Steam controller of forcing you
>to use the right touchpad instead it always is optional!
>Cannot wait for the Steam Controller 2 whoch should come out hopefully
>next year!

There were a variety of problems with Steam Machines. One was that it
was a fairly open standard, with only minimum hardware specs as the
prime requirement... so of course the OEMs all shipped the least
powerful machines they could. The devices were extremely overpriced
too, especially regarding the hardware you were getting (some were
upwards of $5000 USD). And at that price, people wanted a computer
that could do more than just play games... except SteamOS was a poor
fit for that, since it couldn't run a lot of Windows applications.
Some of the Steam Machines weren't easily upgradable either, which
-especially for the sort of gamers who'd be interested in a $5000
gaming device- is a deal-killer. And in 2014, there was still enough
fluctuation in PC hardware that tying yourself down to a fixed
hardware config was a recipe for quick obsolescence.

Add to that, Valve itself shot itself in the foot with its own
actions. One part of the Steam Machine spec was that it had to ship
with a Steam Controller... except Valve delayed the release of the
controller for over a year as they worked out various bugs and
designs. The decision to leave manufacture of the Steam Machines up to
OEMs --who could customize their builds as they saw fit-- only sowed
confusion in the market; which Steam Machine to buy? The much cheaper
SteamLink also probably sabotaged Steam Machine sales to some degree.

I think Steam Machines would go down better today; hardware
requirements for games are much less severe, existing GPUs and CPUs
are much more powerful, and there's much less turnover in PC hardware.
SteamOS -and the underlying Linux OS it's based on- are much improved
in compatibility and --thanks to the proliferation of web-services--
there's much less reliance on specific applications (e.g., MS Office)
for performing non-gaming activities. If Valve could develop a
small-factor gaming PC and sell it for ~$800 USD, I think it would see
more success.

But the simple fact is, there's really no need for it. The Steam
Machines were a reaction to Microsoft's attempt to shoulder its way
into Steam's bailiwick. That's not really a problem for Valve right
now; they are --and are likely to remain-- the de facto PC games
provider for most PC gamers, regardless if they are using a custom
'Steam machine' or some Dell box. The bigger problem Valve faces is
that a lot of gamers aren't even BOTHERING with PCs (or consoles)
anymore; they play entirely on mobile devices, and Valve has _nothing_
in that arena.

[no, the SteamDeck doesn't count. That's mainly designed as
competition against consoles and to bolster their hold on
the PC market by enhancing the Steam ecosystem. Mobile gaming
is an entirely different beast]

There's entire markets that never even LOOK at Steam, and these are
only going to become larger and more important as years pass. It's not
a threat to them right now but the PC gaming audience is aging out and
not being replenished at the same rate. I suspect we'll see a
SteamStore on mobile sooner than we see a return of Steam Machines.

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote at 17:17 this Saturday (GMT):
> On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 15:29:23 +0100, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:
>
>>Am 22.11.24 um 21:41 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
>>> Steam Link --and indeed, the whole Steam Machines concept-- never
>>> really caught on amongst gamers. The Steam Machines themselves were
>>> too expensive and too underpowered to justify themselves, and
>>> SteamLink never really found a market. I guess people who owned PCs
>>> beefy enough to run games and stream it over the local network either
>>> weren't interested in playing on the couch, or had the dosh to just
>>> buy a second dedicated computer for that purpose. Steam Machines
>>> disappeared from the Steam storefront in 2018, and SteamLink was
>>> discontinued shortly afterwards.
>>They simply were too early, SteamOS was not "ripe" enough to give a
>>decent console experience. Valve struck gold with the same concept with
>>the Steam Deck but given SteamOS now is relatively mature and the deck
>>did not repeat the main mistake of the Steam controller of forcing you
>>to use the right touchpad instead it always is optional!
>>Cannot wait for the Steam Controller 2 whoch should come out hopefully
>>next year!
>
> There were a variety of problems with Steam Machines. One was that it
> was a fairly open standard, with only minimum hardware specs as the
> prime requirement... so of course the OEMs all shipped the least
> powerful machines they could. The devices were extremely overpriced
> too, especially regarding the hardware you were getting (some were
> upwards of $5000 USD). And at that price, people wanted a computer
> that could do more than just play games... except SteamOS was a poor
> fit for that, since it couldn't run a lot of Windows applications.
> Some of the Steam Machines weren't easily upgradable either, which
> -especially for the sort of gamers who'd be interested in a $5000
> gaming device- is a deal-killer. And in 2014, there was still enough
> fluctuation in PC hardware that tying yourself down to a fixed
> hardware config was a recipe for quick obsolescence.
>
> Add to that, Valve itself shot itself in the foot with its own
> actions. One part of the Steam Machine spec was that it had to ship
> with a Steam Controller... except Valve delayed the release of the
> controller for over a year as they worked out various bugs and
> designs. The decision to leave manufacture of the Steam Machines up to
> OEMs --who could customize their builds as they saw fit-- only sowed
> confusion in the market; which Steam Machine to buy? The much cheaper
> SteamLink also probably sabotaged Steam Machine sales to some degree.
>
> I think Steam Machines would go down better today; hardware
> requirements for games are much less severe, existing GPUs and CPUs
> are much more powerful, and there's much less turnover in PC hardware.
> SteamOS -and the underlying Linux OS it's based on- are much improved
> in compatibility and --thanks to the proliferation of web-services--
> there's much less reliance on specific applications (e.g., MS Office)
> for performing non-gaming activities. If Valve could develop a
> small-factor gaming PC and sell it for ~$800 USD, I think it would see
> more success.
>
> But the simple fact is, there's really no need for it. The Steam
> Machines were a reaction to Microsoft's attempt to shoulder its way
> into Steam's bailiwick. That's not really a problem for Valve right
> now; they are --and are likely to remain-- the de facto PC games
> provider for most PC gamers, regardless if they are using a custom
> 'Steam machine' or some Dell box. The bigger problem Valve faces is
> that a lot of gamers aren't even BOTHERING with PCs (or consoles)
> anymore; they play entirely on mobile devices, and Valve has _nothing_
> in that arena.
>
> [no, the SteamDeck doesn't count. That's mainly designed as
> competition against consoles and to bolster their hold on
> the PC market by enhancing the Steam ecosystem. Mobile gaming
> is an entirely different beast]
>
> There's entire markets that never even LOOK at Steam, and these are
> only going to become larger and more important as years pass. It's not
> a threat to them right now but the PC gaming audience is aging out and
> not being replenished at the same rate. I suspect we'll see a
> SteamStore on mobile sooner than we see a return of Steam Machines.

To be fair, you can *technically* play steam games on mobile with
streaming. It's not very good.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

I couldn't get its iOS app to work in my iPhone. :(

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

> Do you remember Steam Link? Odds are, probably not. It was a
> brief-lived hardware device released by Valve in the mid 2010s; a sort
> of cheaper alternative to the even shorter-lived 'Steam Machine' PCs
> that ran an early version of SteamOS. The latter devices weren't made
> by Valve directly; they were a partner program between Valve and
> various PC OEMs (Alienware, Falcon Northwest, etc). in an attempt to
> jump-start gaming on Linux.

> [The whole escapade itself was a direct reaction to
> Microsoft releasing an app store on Windows 8, which
> threatened Steam's hegemony. Steam Machines were Valve
> saying, 'try to encroach on PC gaming, Microsoft, and
> we'll pull the whole market over to Linux, you just see
> if we don't.' When the Microsoft App store proved such
> a dismal flop, Valve felt safe in backing away.]

> The SteamLink devices, though, were much simpler machines. With a slow
> 1GHz ARM processor, it was intended as a full-fledged computer but as
> a set-top box that would stream games from a PC in another room to the
> big screen TV in the living room. All it really let you do was run
> Steam and games, and it required you to have a fairly hefty gaming PC
> somewhere else nearby. It's main advantage was it's cost; it sold for
> $50. Assuming you already did own a solid gaming rig, it was an
> inexpensive way to get your games to the living room without having to
> move your whole PC (with all the associated wiring and noise) out of
> the study.

> Steam Link --and indeed, the whole Steam Machines concept-- never
> really caught on amongst gamers. The Steam Machines themselves were
> too expensive and too underpowered to justify themselves, and
> SteamLink never really found a market. I guess people who owned PCs
> beefy enough to run games and stream it over the local network either
> weren't interested in playing on the couch, or had the dosh to just
> buy a second dedicated computer for that purpose. Steam Machines
> disappeared from the Steam storefront in 2018, and SteamLink was
> discontinued shortly afterwards.

> Not before I got my hands on one, though. In the trailing days of the
> device, they could be picked up for $5 USD, and I grabbed one at that
> price. I never really _did_ anything with it though; I had no need. My
> PC was already hooked up to a big-screen TV. But it was just too good
> a deal to not take advantage of.

> I was impressed with the hardware --and the packaging!-- but after a
> few months of it hanging off the back of the living room computer, I
> packed it away and there it say, all but forgotten in the back of the
> Closet Of Old Hardware. Until today when, on a whim, I got it back
> out.

> I honestly didn't expect it to work. It's been seven years since I
> touched the thing, and I assumed that either the hardware would have
> failed, or the back-end software (e.g., Steam) would no longer be
> compatible. But no; I plugged the thing in and it cheerfully came to
> life. A few updates later (the latest released just a few weeks ago!),
> and it was ready to go.

> I paired the device with one of my older PCs (an old i5 with a GeForce
> 770 that I mainly keep around because it has hot-swappable drive bays
> that makes it really useful for wiping/formatting old hard-drives) and
> fired up "Alien Isolation". It ran a treat; except for the briefest
> flash of the server's desktop when it first started, there was no
> evidence that the game wasn't running in the same room. No compression
> artifacts, no latency that I could tell. The little SteamLink device
> didn't even get warm from the effort.

> Which is to say, I'm _still_ impressed with the hardware. It's an
> eminently capable little device.

> With that said though, it became pretty obvious that -by the end of
> the day- the thing was likely to end up back in its box in the closet
> again. I just don't NEED it for what it does. If I ever really want to
> play PC games regularly in the living room, I have the spare hardware
> to just attach a proper PC. The fact that I'd have to keep a separate
> PC running -probably all the time, on the off chance I'd want to
> suddenly want to play- in the backroom doesn't endear me to the
> SteamLink either. As much as I love the little device, it's an answer
> to a problem I just don't have.

> Still, props to Valve for still supporting the SteamLink six years
> after they stopped selling it. I have to admit, I was surprised to see
> it still working, and that simple joy made the effort of dusting off
> the device worth it.
--
"For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, 'This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.'" --1 Corinthians 11:23-24. Go USC & FUCLA!
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On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 22:56:51 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:

>I couldn't get its iOS app to work in my iPhone. :(
>

The SteamLink app was released some years after the hardware device,
allowing people to stream games from their PC to a mobile device of
their choice (so long as it ran IOS or Android ;-).

I remember that -when I tried it- I eventually got it to work, but
found it extremely pointless. Again, I'd _still_ need to keep a PC
running somewhere else (and configure it so it wouldn't hibernate so
it could be active whenever). While SteamLink works GREAT on local
ethernet, over wifi it's a very inferior experience (I didn't try it
over cellular). The control issue is pretty much a deal killer too
(who wants to play PC games on a handheld?). I suppose you could use a
mobile device hooked up to a TV and a gamepad... but then you're
dedicating an entire device to the task, so why not get something that
actually works better? And frankly, almost any dedicated streaming
device -SteamLink or otherwise- would work better than using a phone
for the purpose (and be cheaper too).

[In fact, I'm still not entirely sure that SteamLink can even
be run outside of a local network. I don't think it could when
I tried but its been years and years so it is possible I am
misremembering or it has changed]

Still, the SteamLink App pretty much cannibalized what little demand
there was for the SteamLink hardware device; just Valve shooting
itself in the foot again.

The App though was still in support of their PC monopoly. It didn't
really give Valve any foothold in the immense mobile gaming arena.

Am 24.11.24 um 16:48 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
> On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 22:56:51 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
>

> The App though was still in support of their PC monopoly. It didn't
> really give Valve any foothold in the immense mobile gaming arena.
>
>
Steam link is nice for set top boxes like Android TV boxes, but with
Moonlight there is a better solution given the backend now also is
opensource and supports non NVidia cards! (I think the backend is called
sunshine). NVidia has given up the development of its streaming backend
given that Opensource alternatives took over the protocol, which now
makes it a safe bet as well, because NVidia probably never will offer a
C&D on those projects for reverse engineering their protocol anymore,
which was the biggest fear regarding Moonlight and Sunshine in the past!
The only plus Steam link as protocol nowadays has is that it still is an
integrated solution which works ootb, Latency etc... are better via
moonlight and sunshine nowadays!

Am 25.11.24 um 08:40 schrieb Werner P.:
> Am 24.11.24 um 16:48 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
>> On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 22:56:51 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
>>
>
>> The App though was still in support of their PC monopoly. It didn't
>> really give Valve any foothold in the immense mobile gaming arena.
>>
>>
> Steam link is nice for set top boxes like Android TV boxes, but with
> Moonlight there is a better solution given the backend now also is
> opensource and supports non NVidia cards! (I think the backend is called
> sunshine). NVidia has given up the development of its streaming backend
> given that Opensource alternatives took over the protocol, which now
> makes it a safe bet as well, because NVidia probably never will offer a
> C&D on those projects for reverse engineering their protocol anymore,
> which was the biggest fear regarding Moonlight and Sunshine in the past!
> The only plus Steam link as protocol nowadays has is that it still is an
> integrated solution which works ootb, Latency etc... are better via
> moonlight and sunshine nowadays!
>
>
>
Ah also forget local streaming also is nice if you have a handheld and
wnat full visual fidelity without any comppromises. I occasionally use
this path on the Steam Deck with the PC running in the background (or
the PS5 for this matter, there are similar solutions to stream from a
playstation)
But again for PC -> PC based handheld sunshine+moonlight is superior to
the Steam Link solution!

On 23/11/2024 16:49, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 11:25:50 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
>
>> On 22/11/2024 20:41, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>>>
>>> Do you remember Steam Link? Odds are, probably not. It was a
>>> brief-lived hardware device released by Valve in the mid 2010s; a sort
>>> of cheaper alternative to the even shorter-lived 'Steam Machine' PCs
>>> that ran an early version of SteamOS. The latter devices weren't made
>>> by Valve directly; they were a partner program between Valve and
>>> various PC OEMs (Alienware, Falcon Northwest, etc). in an attempt to
>>> jump-start gaming on Linux.
>>>
>>>
>>> [The whole escapade itself was a direct reaction to
>>> Microsoft releasing an app store on Windows 8, which
>>> threatened Steam's hegemony. Steam Machines were Valve
>>> saying, 'try to encroach on PC gaming, Microsoft, and
>>> we'll pull the whole market over to Linux, you just see
>>> if we don't.' When the Microsoft App store proved such
>>> a dismal flop, Valve felt safe in backing away.]
>>>
>>>
>>> The SteamLink devices, though, were much simpler machines. With a slow
>>> 1GHz ARM processor, it was intended as a full-fledged computer but as
>>> a set-top box that would stream games from a PC in another room to the
>>> big screen TV in the living room. All it really let you do was run
>>> Steam and games, and it required you to have a fairly hefty gaming PC
>>> somewhere else nearby. It's main advantage was it's cost; it sold for
>>> $50. Assuming you already did own a solid gaming rig, it was an
>>> inexpensive way to get your games to the living room without having to
>>> move your whole PC (with all the associated wiring and noise) out of
>>> the study.
>>>
>>> Steam Link --and indeed, the whole Steam Machines concept-- never
>>> really caught on amongst gamers. The Steam Machines themselves were
>>> too expensive and too underpowered to justify themselves, and
>>> SteamLink never really found a market. I guess people who owned PCs
>>> beefy enough to run games and stream it over the local network either
>>> weren't interested in playing on the couch, or had the dosh to just
>>> buy a second dedicated computer for that purpose. Steam Machines
>>> disappeared from the Steam storefront in 2018, and SteamLink was
>>> discontinued shortly afterwards.
>>>
>>> Not before I got my hands on one, though. In the trailing days of the
>>> device, they could be picked up for $5 USD, and I grabbed one at that
>>> price. I never really _did_ anything with it though; I had no need. My
>>> PC was already hooked up to a big-screen TV. But it was just too good
>>> a deal to not take advantage of.
>>>
>>> I was impressed with the hardware --and the packaging!-- but after a
>>> few months of it hanging off the back of the living room computer, I
>>> packed it away and there it say, all but forgotten in the back of the
>>> Closet Of Old Hardware. Until today when, on a whim, I got it back
>>> out.
>>>
>>> I honestly didn't expect it to work. It's been seven years since I
>>> touched the thing, and I assumed that either the hardware would have
>>> failed, or the back-end software (e.g., Steam) would no longer be
>>> compatible. But no; I plugged the thing in and it cheerfully came to
>>> life. A few updates later (the latest released just a few weeks ago!),
>>> and it was ready to go.
>>>
>>> I paired the device with one of my older PCs (an old i5 with a GeForce
>>> 770 that I mainly keep around because it has hot-swappable drive bays
>>> that makes it really useful for wiping/formatting old hard-drives) and
>>> fired up "Alien Isolation". It ran a treat; except for the briefest
>>> flash of the server's desktop when it first started, there was no
>>> evidence that the game wasn't running in the same room. No compression
>>> artifacts, no latency that I could tell. The little SteamLink device
>>> didn't even get warm from the effort.
>>>
>>> Which is to say, I'm _still_ impressed with the hardware. It's an
>>> eminently capable little device.
>>>
>>> With that said though, it became pretty obvious that -by the end of
>>> the day- the thing was likely to end up back in its box in the closet
>>> again. I just don't NEED it for what it does. If I ever really want to
>>> play PC games regularly in the living room, I have the spare hardware
>>> to just attach a proper PC. The fact that I'd have to keep a separate
>>> PC running -probably all the time, on the off chance I'd want to
>>> suddenly want to play- in the backroom doesn't endear me to the
>>> SteamLink either. As much as I love the little device, it's an answer
>>> to a problem I just don't have.
>>>
>>> Still, props to Valve for still supporting the SteamLink six years
>>> after they stopped selling it. I have to admit, I was surprised to see
>>> it still working, and that simple joy made the effort of dusting off
>>> the device worth it.
>>>
>>
>> I did think about getting one but found it hard to justify the price for
>> it and a Steam Controller. Saying that I did end up get the controller
>> when they were being flogged on the cheap to get rid of remaining stock.
>> I have used it a bit but then again it was only about £12 including p&p
>> so hard to complain.
>
> Yeah, if I'd had to buy the thing at its release price --$50USD-- I'd
> never have touched the thing. But $5 was too good a price for me NOT
> to get it. And, honestly, I think I got my money's worth; sure, it
> doesnt' get everyday use, but the experience of tinkering around with
> it gave me a few hours of fun. Maybe one day I'll even have actual use
> for it too! Or, barring that, I could just sell it (they're going for
> $50 to $100 USD on Ebay for in-box models today; just think how much
> I'll get for one in twenty years ;-)
>
> I grabbed a Steam Controller too some years back (also at a fire-sale
> price). I'm less sanguine about that one; I didn't care for the
> touchpad feature, and generally don't like using gamepads anyway. It's
> shoved away in an even darker corner of the closet. Anyway, most of
> the time I use a gamepad it's for playing PS2 games on the emulator,
> so I prefer to use a gamepad that has the appropriate symbols (X,O,
> square, triangle) on the buttons
>

I don't use the controller as much as I thought I would but it can be
nice to play certain games on the sofa on the big screen. Controllers in
general I just don't use and I think part of that is that I spend half
my time trying to remember what button does what.