I noticed some current sales that might be good the day after Christmas
2014 on
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/searchpage.jsp?nrp=15&cp=1&seeAll=Features&id=pcat17071&_dyncharset=UTF-8&ks=960&sc=Global&list=y&usc=All%20Categories&type=page&iht=n&browsedCategory=pcmcat143700050048&st=pcmcat143700050048_categoryid%24abcat0509000&qp=condition_facet%3DCondition~New^monitorscreensizerange_facet%3DScreen%20Size~21%22%20-%2022.9%22^monitorscreensizerange_facet%3DScreen%20Size~23%22%20-%2024.9%22^currentoffers_facet%3DCurrent%20Offers~On%20Sale^features_facet%3DFeatures~Tiltable^features_facet%3DFeatures~Adjustable%20Stand%20Height
OR http://preview.tinyurl.com/naaom67 ... What do you think about those?
Some of them have high response times though. :(

FYI:
My old 19" 5:4 Samsung SyncMaster 931BF monitor seems to be dying, so it
is time for me to find and buy a new bigger and better monitor. Here is
what I am looking for:

-25" horizontal width max(imum)
-22" vertical height max(imum)
-Need to be able easily to rotate/move monitor due to the annoying sun
shining on to it since window blinds don't help. Glossy screens might be
problematic?
-Limited desk space due to bookshelves and stuff.
-Adjustable height and tiltable.
-Still need VGA (still use it 99% of the times with my Beklin KVM from
Y2K) and DVI ports for very old computer setups (Linux, Windows, and
Mac). Still using old ATI Radeon 4870 and GeForce 8800 GT video cards
(512 MB of VRAM).
-8-bit colors (16.7 million colors)
-Extra features not needed unless they are included for free: touch
screen, built in speakers, 4K, screen rotation, etc.
-Do a lot of Internet, watching videos, some gaming (action/FPS too so
fast speeds are required; <5? ms response times?), basic graphic work, etc.
-<$300 including taxes, etc.

I want to see the new monitor in person with local retail stores like
Costco, Best Buy, Fry's Electronics, etc. before buying to be sure I
like it.
--
"I do not believe that the Great Society is the ordered, changeless and
sterile battalion of the ants. It is the excitement of becoming--always
becoming, trying, probing, falling, resting and trying again--but always
trying and always gaining. In each generation--with toil and tears--we
have had to earn our heritage again." --Lyndon B. Johnson
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Some of those are IPS panels which are no good for action gaming.

On 12/26/2014 10:01 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
> Some of those are IPS panels which are no good for action gaming.

So, all IPS panels are for action games like FPSes? That's news to me.
Thanks for the tips. :)
--
"Every ruler sleeps on an anthill." --Afghani
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On Fri, 26 Dec 2014 11:17:33 -0800, Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>On 12/26/2014 10:01 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
>> Some of those are IPS panels which are no good for action gaming.
>
>So, all IPS panels are for action games like FPSes? That's news to me.
>Thanks for the tips. :)

Heh... no I think you'll want to read what I wrote again after the
eggnog wears off ;)

>>> Some of those are IPS panels which are no good for action gaming.
>>
>> So, all IPS panels are NO for action games like FPSes? That's news to me.
>> Thanks for the tips. :)
>
> Heh... no I think you'll want to read what I wrote again after the
> eggnog wears off ;)

Crap, I missed a word when I typed that. I just added it in above.
Thanks, and I didn't even drink an eggnog. ;) Anyways, I removed all IPS
panel monitors from my list.
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"Ants never sleep." --Ralph Waldo Emerson, poet
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Arcadia (ripped from YouTube)

On Fri, 26 Dec 2014 15:17:45 -0800, Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>>>> Some of those are IPS panels which are no good for action gaming.
>>>
>>> So, all IPS panels are NO for action games like FPSes? That's news to me.
>>> Thanks for the tips. :)
>>
>> Heh... no I think you'll want to read what I wrote again after the
>> eggnog wears off ;)
>
>Crap, I missed a word when I typed that. I just added it in above.
>Thanks, and I didn't even drink an eggnog. ;) Anyways, I removed all IPS
>panel monitors from my list.

Well there are some folks that do use IPS panels for gaming, they just
seem to always be behind TN panels when it comes to speed, so if
action gaming is important to you I think you'd do better to exclude
them. TN panels do have the disadvantage of worse viewing angles, but
honestly on this Acer I don't even notice it.

The latest issue of PC Gamer reviews gaming monitors, and their top
three picks are all G-Sync monitors. I think they must have not been
able to get their hands on a XB270H because they reviewed the Acer
XB280HK, which they ranked second behind the ASUS ROG Swift PG278Q.
The XB280HK is a 4K monitor that can only do 60hz, making it a
completely different animal than the XB270H, where IMO the 144hz is
one of the main features. The ASUS monitor does 144hz but community
feedback indicates the XB270H is better, there are a number of people
who returned their ASUS ROGs for the Acer and are glad they did. I
think part of that may be that by gaming at 1080p you generally get a
more fluid and responsive framerate in most games. My rig could no
doubt pull great frame rates in all current games even with the
2560x1440 native res of the ASUS ROG, but not everybody has dual
gtx980s in SLI and I think the single GPU setup of the average gamer
would run into quite a few titles that struggle at resolutions beyond
1080p -- even if not now then with future games.

What do you think of these two/2 ASUS VS Series VS2..H-P monitors?

24" ASUS VS Series VS247H-P Black (bigger, speakers, & TV tuner) =
$164.99 after $20 rebate -- http://frys.com/product/6902147 (2 ms)

23" ASUS VS Series VS238H-P (brighter) = $159.99 after $20 rebate --
http://frys.com/product/6999317 (2 ms)

I might go to Fry's Electronics tomorrow night to see them in person and
maybe buy one/1. Thank you in advance. :)
--
"It is not enough to be industrious; so are the ants. What are you
industrious about?" --Henry David Thoreau
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On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 01:06:44 -0800, Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>What do you think of these two/2 ASUS VS Series VS2..H-P monitors?
>
>24" ASUS VS Series VS247H-P Black (bigger, speakers, & TV tuner) =
>$164.99 after $20 rebate -- http://frys.com/product/6902147 (2 ms)
>
>23" ASUS VS Series VS238H-P (brighter) = $159.99 after $20 rebate --
>http://frys.com/product/6999317 (2 ms)
>
>I might go to Fry's Electronics tomorrow night to see them in person and
>maybe buy one/1. Thank you in advance. :)

I have a 28" Asus and I'm happy with it. The Asus replaced a 23"
Samsung and its *bright*. The whites were almost glaring out of the
box and colors were a bit wacky... Blue's were almost purple.

Basically what I'm saying is that it took more fiddling than normal to
get the colors right, but once you get the contrast and color tweaked
the image is very nice.

As far as frame rates go, I'm probably not the best to comment on it.
I still play lots of ancient console games. Those are way harder than
new games, and framerates vary wildy and you're lucky to get 20fps.

Basically I'm not a diva, I just overcome the situation. Its just a
computer game, not splitting atoms. lol

Good luck in your hunt!

On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 01:06:44 -0800, Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>What do you think of these two/2 ASUS VS Series VS2..H-P monitors?
>
>24" ASUS VS Series VS247H-P Black (bigger, speakers, & TV tuner) =
>$164.99 after $20 rebate -- http://frys.com/product/6902147 (2 ms)
>
>23" ASUS VS Series VS238H-P (brighter) = $159.99 after $20 rebate --
>http://frys.com/product/6999317 (2 ms)
>
>I might go to Fry's Electronics tomorrow night to see them in person and
>maybe buy one/1. Thank you in advance. :)

Not sure if the question is for me specifically, or the group in
general, but the only monitor I could recommend for gaming that does
not come equipped with G-Sync out of the box would be the ASUS VG248QE
2" (that's the one where you can install the G-Sync hardware later if
you don't mind voiding the warranty). That model would be in your
price range, even though it's about $100 more than the ones you listed
above.

The monitors you listed are not designed with gaming in mind. If I
want to drive nails into wood I wouldn't try to do it with a pair of
pliers, I'd look for the right tool for the job. Just depends on what
you want to do with the monitor. I'm assuming based on the amount of
time you've dedicated to this post that the emphasis is on action
gaming.

You can see which monitors are designed for which purpose at each
vendors' website, for example all of Asus's current (not discontinued
models are here):

http://www.asus.com/us/Monitors

The ASUS VG248QE is your best bet in a decent-priced 24" that has the
potential to be a G-Sync monitor with the DIY kit.

That's about all I've got for you in terms of specific monitor models.
Good luck

On 12/28/2014 5:10 AM, Tim O wrote:

> I have a 28" Asus and I'm happy with it. The Asus replaced a 23"
> Samsung and its *bright*. The whites were almost glaring out of the
> box and colors were a bit wacky... Blue's were almost purple.
>
> Basically what I'm saying is that it took more fiddling than normal to
> get the colors right, but once you get the contrast and color tweaked
> the image is very nice.

Really? How annoying. How long did that take to tweak? :(

> As far as frame rates go, I'm probably not the best to comment on it.
> I still play lots of ancient console games. Those are way harder than
> new games, and framerates vary wildy and you're lucky to get 20fps.

Ancient console games like from the (19)80s? If so, then doesn't your
screen size, graphics, etc. look different from a true CRT?

> Basically I'm not a diva, I just overcome the situation. Its just a
> computer game, not splitting atoms. lol

Well, I am picky and want the best I can get. ;)

> Good luck in your hunt!

Thanks. :)
--
"Yeah, what's left of it. I was in the militia -- national guard...
That's good! Wasn't any war any more than there's war between men and
ants." --stranger; "And we're eat-able ants. I found that out... What
will they do with us?" --Pierson from H.G. Wells' The War of the Worlds
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
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Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

On 2014-12-28, Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> On 12/28/2014 5:10 AM, Tim O wrote:
>
>> I have a 28" Asus and I'm happy with it. The Asus replaced a 23"
>> Samsung and its *bright*. The whites were almost glaring out of the
>> box and colors were a bit wacky... Blue's were almost purple.
>>
>> Basically what I'm saying is that it took more fiddling than normal to
>> get the colors right, but once you get the contrast and color tweaked
>> the image is very nice.
>
> Really? How annoying. How long did that take to tweak? :(

This is typical for el-cheap-o monitors. If your top goal is spending
the least amount, you're going to get shit. ; )

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 12/28/2014 6:12 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:

>> What do you think of these two/2 ASUS VS Series VS2..H-P monitors?
>>
>> 24" ASUS VS Series VS247H-P Black (bigger, speakers, & TV tuner) =
>> $164.99 after $20 rebate -- http://frys.com/product/6902147 (2 ms)
>>
>> 23" ASUS VS Series VS238H-P (brighter) = $159.99 after $20 rebate --
>> http://frys.com/product/6999317 (2 ms)
>>
>> I might go to Fry's Electronics tomorrow night to see them in person and
>> maybe buy one/1. Thank you in advance. :)
>
> Not sure if the question is for me specifically, or the group in
> general, but the only monitor I could recommend for gaming that does

It was for everyone including yourself. :)

> not come equipped with G-Sync out of the box would be the ASUS VG248QE
> 2" (that's the one where you can install the G-Sync hardware later if
> you don't mind voiding the warranty). That model would be in your
> price range, even though it's about $100 more than the ones you listed
> above.

Heh, that would be three/3 years IIRC. I doubt I would get a G-Sync
hardware before the warranty ends. I don't need G-Sync now for sure. I
am even surprised the warranty is not a year long.

> The monitors you listed are not designed with gaming in mind. If I

Even with the low 2ms response times? :(

> want to drive nails into wood I wouldn't try to do it with a pair of
> pliers, I'd look for the right tool for the job. Just depends on what
> you want to do with the monitor. I'm assuming based on the amount of
> time you've dedicated to this post that the emphasis is on action
> gaming.

It's more than gaming (rare though due to work, BUSY life, etc.). I do a
lot of Internet, watching videos, basic graphic work, etc.

> You can see which monitors are designed for which purpose at each
> vendors' website, for example all of Asus's current (not discontinued
> models are here):
>
> http://www.asus.com/us/Monitors
>
> The ASUS VG248QE is your best bet in a decent-priced 24" that has the
> potential to be a G-Sync monitor with the DIY kit.

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/g-sync/diy shows how to do
it. Hmm, so it is basically like a video card for the monitor instead of
the computer?

> That's about all I've got for you in terms of specific monitor models.
> Good luck

Thanks again. :)
--
"When you have seen one ant, one bird, one tree, you have not seen them
all." --Edward O. Wilson, 1992
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On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 07:55:47 -0800, Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>On 12/28/2014 5:10 AM, Tim O wrote:
>
>> I have a 28" Asus and I'm happy with it. The Asus replaced a 23"
>> Samsung and its *bright*. The whites were almost glaring out of the
>> box and colors were a bit wacky... Blue's were almost purple.
>>
>> Basically what I'm saying is that it took more fiddling than normal to
>> get the colors right, but once you get the contrast and color tweaked
>> the image is very nice.
>
>Really? How annoying. How long did that take to tweak? :(
>
>
>> As far as frame rates go, I'm probably not the best to comment on it.
>> I still play lots of ancient console games. Those are way harder than
>> new games, and framerates vary wildy and you're lucky to get 20fps.
>
>Ancient console games like from the (19)80s? If so, then doesn't your
>screen size, graphics, etc. look different from a true CRT?
>
>
>> Basically I'm not a diva, I just overcome the situation. Its just a
>> computer game, not splitting atoms. lol
>
>Well, I am picky and want the best I can get. ;)
>
>
>> Good luck in your hunt!
>
>Thanks. :)

Took about half an hour or so to tweak. Adjusted brightness and
contrast by eye first, then a color chart and finally the gamma and
color tweaks built into Windows 7.

I don't play old games on the PC monitor, just commenting on the
framerate sensitivity that has (in my opinion) been over-emphasized in
the thread. I may have underestimated how picky you were based on the
older video cards.

On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 08:03:56 -0800, Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>On 12/28/2014 6:12 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
>
>>> What do you think of these two/2 ASUS VS Series VS2..H-P monitors?
>>>
>>> 24" ASUS VS Series VS247H-P Black (bigger, speakers, & TV tuner) =
>>> $164.99 after $20 rebate -- http://frys.com/product/6902147 (2 ms)
>>>
>>> 23" ASUS VS Series VS238H-P (brighter) = $159.99 after $20 rebate --
>>> http://frys.com/product/6999317 (2 ms)
>>>
>>> I might go to Fry's Electronics tomorrow night to see them in person and
>>> maybe buy one/1. Thank you in advance. :)
>>
>> Not sure if the question is for me specifically, or the group in
>> general, but the only monitor I could recommend for gaming that does
>
>It was for everyone including yourself. :)
>
>
>> not come equipped with G-Sync out of the box would be the ASUS VG248QE
>> 2" (that's the one where you can install the G-Sync hardware later if
>> you don't mind voiding the warranty). That model would be in your
>> price range, even though it's about $100 more than the ones you listed
>> above.
>
>Heh, that would be three/3 years IIRC. I doubt I would get a G-Sync
>hardware before the warranty ends. I don't need G-Sync now for sure. I
>am even surprised the warranty is not a year long.

I didn't want to void the warranty on a brand new monitor either,
which is one reason I waited until monitors with factory installed
G-sync arrived.

The only reason I mentioned this option is that it seemed you made up
your mind you're not going to incur the extra cost for G-Sync for now.
If you aren't going for G-Sync, the VG248QE is a good monitor for
gaming and is within your original budget (without the G-sync kit).
And, since it is the only monitor I'm aware of that gives you a future
option for G-Sync, there would be the peace of mind and reduced chance
of buyer's remorse if you wanted G-Sync in the future.

Potential risk is that the DIY kit may not be available 3 years from
now or whenever you might decide you want it, because of course the
factory installed G-Sync monitors are now out so who knows how long
ASUS will keep the DIY option alive.

You can buy a VG248QE from some boutique PC builders the last time I
checked (months ago), where they install it for you, but since the kit
costs extra money I'm not sure that option makes much sense especially
since it would be shipped to you with warranty voided.

>> The monitors you listed are not designed with gaming in mind. If I
>
>Even with the low 2ms response times? :(

Most of the monitors I've recommended are spec'd @ 1ms GTG.

Response time is only one spec to look at. One of the whole purposes
of low response times was to reduce blur, and if you've done any
research on the links I sent earlier, you've probably come to realize
that a lot of progress has been made beyond just response times in
reducing blur/ghosting, etc.

>> want to drive nails into wood I wouldn't try to do it with a pair of
>> pliers, I'd look for the right tool for the job. Just depends on what
>> you want to do with the monitor. I'm assuming based on the amount of
>> time you've dedicated to this post that the emphasis is on action
>> gaming.
>
>It's more than gaming (rare though due to work, BUSY life, etc.). I do a
>lot of Internet, watching videos, basic graphic work, etc.

One way of looking at is that gaming LCDs make fine work and video
viewing monitors, but the converse is not true.

>
>> You can see which monitors are designed for which purpose at each
>> vendors' website, for example all of Asus's current (not discontinued
>> models are here):
>>
>> http://www.asus.com/us/Monitors
>>
>> The ASUS VG248QE is your best bet in a decent-priced 24" that has the
>> potential to be a G-Sync monitor with the DIY kit.
>
>http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/g-sync/diy shows how to do
>it. Hmm, so it is basically like a video card for the monitor instead of
>the computer?

Think of it like a refresh rate controller for the monitor that
receives signals from the video card on your PC telling it the optimal
refresh rate to use.

On 12/28/2014 8:50 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:

>>> not come equipped with G-Sync out of the box would be the ASUS VG248QE
>>> 2" (that's the one where you can install the G-Sync hardware later if
>>> you don't mind voiding the warranty). That model would be in your
>>> price range, even though it's about $100 more than the ones you listed
>>> above.
>>
>> Heh, that would be three/3 years IIRC. I doubt I would get a G-Sync
>> hardware before the warranty ends. I don't need G-Sync now for sure. I
>> am even surprised the warranty is not a year long.
>
> I didn't want to void the warranty on a brand new monitor either,
> which is one reason I waited until monitors with factory installed
> G-sync arrived.
>
> The only reason I mentioned this option is that it seemed you made up
> your mind you're not going to incur the extra cost for G-Sync for now.
> If you aren't going for G-Sync, the VG248QE is a good monitor for
> gaming and is within your original budget (without the G-sync kit).
> And, since it is the only monitor I'm aware of that gives you a future
> option for G-Sync, there would be the peace of mind and reduced chance
> of buyer's remorse if you wanted G-Sync in the future.
>
> Potential risk is that the DIY kit may not be available 3 years from
> now or whenever you might decide you want it, because of course the
> factory installed G-Sync monitors are now out so who knows how long
> ASUS will keep the DIY option alive.
>
> You can buy a VG248QE from some boutique PC builders the last time I
> checked (months ago), where they install it for you, but since the kit
> costs extra money I'm not sure that option makes much sense especially
> since it would be shipped to you with warranty voided.

Ah interesting. For now, I am not going to bother with G-Sync stuff. If
I really wanted that, then I will just buy a new monitor if mine doesn't
have. By then, it will probably be popular, better, and cheaper.

>>> The monitors you listed are not designed with gaming in mind. If I
>>
>> Even with the low 2ms response times? :(
>
> Most of the monitors I've recommended are spec'd @ 1ms GTG.
>
> Response time is only one spec to look at. One of the whole purposes
> of low response times was to reduce blur, and if you've done any
> research on the links I sent earlier, you've probably come to realize
> that a lot of progress has been made beyond just response times in
> reducing blur/ghosting, etc.

Ah OK. What else to look for? No IPS, 16.7 million (8-bit) colors, etc.?

>>> want to drive nails into wood I wouldn't try to do it with a pair of
>>> pliers, I'd look for the right tool for the job. Just depends on what
>>> you want to do with the monitor. I'm assuming based on the amount of
>>> time you've dedicated to this post that the emphasis is on action
>>> gaming.
>>
>> It's more than gaming (rare though due to work, BUSY life, etc.). I do a
>> lot of Internet, watching videos, basic graphic work, etc.
>
> One way of looking at is that gaming LCDs make fine work and video
> viewing monitors, but the converse is not true.

Ah cool.

>>> You can see which monitors are designed for which purpose at each
>>> vendors' website, for example all of Asus's current (not discontinued
>>> models are here):
>>>
>>> http://www.asus.com/us/Monitors
>>>
>>> The ASUS VG248QE is your best bet in a decent-priced 24" that has the
>>> potential to be a G-Sync monitor with the DIY kit.
>>
>> http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/g-sync/diy shows how to do
>> it. Hmm, so it is basically like a video card for the monitor instead of
>> the computer?
>
> Think of it like a refresh rate controller for the monitor that
> receives signals from the video card on your PC telling it the optimal
> refresh rate to use.

Thanks. It is interesting that people can mod(ify) their monitors these
days. Haha. Lots have changed since I last looked for a new monitor. :O
--
"At length, when they came to a (lowly) valley of ants, one of the ants
said: 'O ye ants, get into your habitations, lest Solomon and his hosts
crush you (under foot) without knowing it.'" --Surah 27. The Ant, The
Ants, line 18
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/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 10:11:30 -0800, Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>On 12/28/2014 8:50 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
>
>>>> not come equipped with G-Sync out of the box would be the ASUS VG248QE
>>>> 2" (that's the one where you can install the G-Sync hardware later if
>>>> you don't mind voiding the warranty). That model would be in your
>>>> price range, even though it's about $100 more than the ones you listed
>>>> above.
>>>
>>> Heh, that would be three/3 years IIRC. I doubt I would get a G-Sync
>>> hardware before the warranty ends. I don't need G-Sync now for sure. I
>>> am even surprised the warranty is not a year long.
>>
>> I didn't want to void the warranty on a brand new monitor either,
>> which is one reason I waited until monitors with factory installed
>> G-sync arrived.
>>
>> The only reason I mentioned this option is that it seemed you made up
>> your mind you're not going to incur the extra cost for G-Sync for now.
>> If you aren't going for G-Sync, the VG248QE is a good monitor for
>> gaming and is within your original budget (without the G-sync kit).
>> And, since it is the only monitor I'm aware of that gives you a future
>> option for G-Sync, there would be the peace of mind and reduced chance
>> of buyer's remorse if you wanted G-Sync in the future.
>>
>> Potential risk is that the DIY kit may not be available 3 years from
>> now or whenever you might decide you want it, because of course the
>> factory installed G-Sync monitors are now out so who knows how long
>> ASUS will keep the DIY option alive.
>>
>> You can buy a VG248QE from some boutique PC builders the last time I
>> checked (months ago), where they install it for you, but since the kit
>> costs extra money I'm not sure that option makes much sense especially
>> since it would be shipped to you with warranty voided.
>
>Ah interesting. For now, I am not going to bother with G-Sync stuff. If
>I really wanted that, then I will just buy a new monitor if mine doesn't
>have. By then, it will probably be popular, better, and cheaper.

The technology itself will probably remain fairly constant, but we can
probably expect to see the monitors themselves get better. I don't
know about cheaper, because typically with every new wave of
technology improvements, the cost of those improvements tends to get
rolled into the price. In the future, LCDs may get replaced by more
expensive OLED monitors, to the point where LCDs are no longer even
purchasable.

Think about it, this is what happened with CRTs. A lot of folks who
wanted to upgrade their CRTs right around the time LCDs were emerging
thought it would be better to save their money, give LCD technology a
couple of years to improve, and save a buck. Never happened. What
did happen is they found themselves unable to purchase a CRT at all,
and it took about 12 years before LCD and add-on technology caught up
to a reasonably comparable performance level. I know of several
previously very active action gamers who just said fuck it and gave up
on PC gaming as a hobby entirely because of the sad shape of LCD
monitors for so many years sucked the life out of gaming. Now some of
the guys I used to game with don't game at all (and I bet if they
tried G-Sync today they would have a renewed interest).

I'd like to say G-Sync monitors will get cheaper in the near future,
but demand is currently through the roof for these things (perhaps
pent up demand from folks who have been waiting for a suitable CRT
replacement). The model I bought went up $180 after I bought it and
has stayed there at NewEgg. It's still available for $600 at stores
that still have it in stock, but sometimes the manufacturer just
changes the model number and some minor cosmetic stuff, slaps a higher
price tag on it, and sits back and enjoys the increased profits.

The one exception to this might be if the VESA standard for adaptive
sync actually ever materializes in a meaningful way and becomes a
standard feature of all monitors. I could see that putting some
downward pressure on prices but I'm not sure I would count on it.

>>>> The monitors you listed are not designed with gaming in mind. If I
>>>
>>> Even with the low 2ms response times? :(
>>
>> Most of the monitors I've recommended are spec'd @ 1ms GTG.
>>
>> Response time is only one spec to look at. One of the whole purposes
>> of low response times was to reduce blur, and if you've done any
>> research on the links I sent earlier, you've probably come to realize
>> that a lot of progress has been made beyond just response times in
>> reducing blur/ghosting, etc.
>
>Ah OK. What else to look for? No IPS, 16.7 million (8-bit) colors, etc.?

144hz refresh rate or at least 120hz. 60hz sucks.

Be sure to get 16:9 aspect ratio (in certain games I see some folks
complaining about poor 16:10 support or bugs that occur-- it shouldn't
be that way, but one of the great things about 1080p is that it is
currently "the standard", which means you typically don't run into the
aspect ratio bugs that sometimes plague modern games (I used to see
aspect bugs occasionally when I ran 4:3 but decided the tradeoff was
worth it for the benefits of a CRT at the time).

On 12/28/2014 12:08 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:

> The technology itself will probably remain fairly constant, but we can
> probably expect to see the monitors themselves get better. I don't
> know about cheaper, because typically with every new wave of
> technology improvements, the cost of those improvements tends to get
> rolled into the price. In the future, LCDs may get replaced by more
> expensive OLED monitors, to the point where LCDs are no longer even
> purchasable.
>
> Think about it, this is what happened with CRTs. A lot of folks who
> wanted to upgrade their CRTs right around the time LCDs were emerging
> thought it would be better to save their money, give LCD technology a
> couple of years to improve, and save a buck. Never happened. What
> did happen is they found themselves unable to purchase a CRT at all,
> and it took about 12 years before LCD and add-on technology caught up
> to a reasonably comparable performance level. I know of several
> previously very active action gamers who just said fuck it and gave up
> on PC gaming as a hobby entirely because of the sad shape of LCD
> monitors for so many years sucked the life out of gaming. Now some of
> the guys I used to game with don't game at all (and I bet if they
> tried G-Sync today they would have a renewed interest).

That is what I went through. My CRT died, I had to get a new monitor but
couldn't find a good CRT. So, I got a cheap 19" 5:4 1280x1024 Samsung
931 BF monitor from Best Buy. It wasn't great since I needed a monitor
badly. Even though I still like gaming, I just don't have time. Look at
my ancient setups due to BUSY life like work/job, family, etc. Very
rarely, I play games. I'm old and outdated! Haha!

> I'd like to say G-Sync monitors will get cheaper in the near future,
> but demand is currently through the roof for these things (perhaps
> pent up demand from folks who have been waiting for a suitable CRT
> replacement). The model I bought went up $180 after I bought it and
> has stayed there at NewEgg. It's still available for $600 at stores
> that still have it in stock, but sometimes the manufacturer just
> changes the model number and some minor cosmetic stuff, slaps a higher
> price tag on it, and sits back and enjoys the increased profits.

Wow, it is that popular? I didn't know that. $600 is way too much for me.

> The one exception to this might be if the VESA standard for adaptive
> sync actually ever materializes in a meaningful way and becomes a
> standard feature of all monitors. I could see that putting some
> downward pressure on prices but I'm not sure I would count on it.

Another reason to wait. ;)

>> Ah OK. What else to look for? No IPS, 16.7 million (8-bit) colors, etc.?
>
> 144hz refresh rate or at least 120hz. 60hz sucks.

Won't this be a problem with my old OmniCube KVM from Y2K with VGA
connections? Yes, I still use them to share multiple computers (Windows
and Linux).

> Be sure to get 16:9 aspect ratio (in certain games I see some folks
> complaining about poor 16:10 support or bugs that occur-- it shouldn't
> be that way, but one of the great things about 1080p is that it is
> currently "the standard", which means you typically don't run into the
> aspect ratio bugs that sometimes plague modern games (I used to see
> aspect bugs occasionally when I ran 4:3 but decided the tradeoff was
> worth it for the benefits of a CRT at the time).

OK and thanks. Another to note. :)

BTW, my old monitor wasn't wanting to power on this afternoon after
being off for about three/3 hours in the cold. Heh.
--
"Everyone knows an ant can't move a rubber tree plant." --Motto of FTL
Foundation (in Isaac Asimov book)
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
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Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 14:39:42 -0800, Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>
>>> Ah OK. What else to look for? No IPS, 16.7 million (8-bit) colors, etc.?
>>
>> 144hz refresh rate or at least 120hz. 60hz sucks.
>
>Won't this be a problem with my old OmniCube KVM from Y2K with VGA
>connections? Yes, I still use them to share multiple computers (Windows
>and Linux).

To be honest I'm not sure how things will go with such an old KVM,
even with adapters, you would be pioneering that space. The oldest
KVM I have is roughly 5 years old with all DVI connections. There's a
certain point at which trying to make old hardware work with new is
just not worth the effort.

On 12/28/2014 3:34 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:

>>>> Ah OK. What else to look for? No IPS, 16.7 million (8-bit) colors, etc.?
>>>
>>> 144hz refresh rate or at least 120hz. 60hz sucks.
>>
>> Won't this be a problem with my old OmniCube KVM from Y2K with VGA
>> connections? Yes, I still use them to share multiple computers (Windows
>> and Linux). I usually use 75 hz.
>
> To be honest I'm not sure how things will go with such an old KVM,
> even with adapters, you would be pioneering that space. The oldest
> KVM I have is roughly 5 years old with all DVI connections. There's a
> certain point at which trying to make old hardware work with new is
> just not worth the effort.

I remember KVMs with DVIs being so expensive several years ago. Are they
much cheaper now? What about HDMI + USB?
--
"What reason, like the careful ant, draws laboriously together, the wind
of accident sometimes collects in a moment." --Friedrich von Schiller
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
A song (i/wa)s playing on this computer: Dave Matthews - Ants Marching

On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 16:43:55 -0800, Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>On 12/28/2014 3:34 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
>
>>>>> Ah OK. What else to look for? No IPS, 16.7 million (8-bit) colors, etc.?
>>>>
>>>> 144hz refresh rate or at least 120hz. 60hz sucks.
>>>
>>> Won't this be a problem with my old OmniCube KVM from Y2K with VGA
>>> connections? Yes, I still use them to share multiple computers (Windows
>>> and Linux). I usually use 75 hz.
>>
>> To be honest I'm not sure how things will go with such an old KVM,
>> even with adapters, you would be pioneering that space. The oldest
>> KVM I have is roughly 5 years old with all DVI connections. There's a
>> certain point at which trying to make old hardware work with new is
>> just not worth the effort.
>
>I remember KVMs with DVIs being so expensive several years ago. Are they
>much cheaper now? What about HDMI + USB?

You could price KVMs by shopping around online. Try Newegg.

On 12/28/2014 4:46 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:

>> I remember KVMs with DVIs being so expensive several years ago. Are they
>> much cheaper now? What about HDMI + USB?
>
> You could price KVMs by shopping around online. Try Newegg.

Still expensive from quick searches on Google's shopping. :(
--
"The great companies did not know that the line between hunger and anger
is a thin line. And money that might have gone to wages went for gas,
for guns, for agents and spies, for blacklists, for drilling. On the
highways the people moved like ants and searched for work, for food. And
the anger began to ferment." --John Steinbeck's The Grapes of Wrath
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
A song (i/wa)s playing on this computer: Vanessa Hudgens - Come Back To Me

Am 28.12.14 21:08, schrieb Rin Stowleigh:

> The one exception to this might be if the VESA standard for adaptive
> sync actually ever materializes in a meaningful way and becomes a
> standard feature of all monitors. I could see that putting some
> downward pressure on prices but I'm not sure I would count on it.
>
The standard should come out next year, hopefully then new monitors with
adaptive sync with more than one input will materialize then. To late
for me, however I just bought a new monitor which fits to my needs, but
it is not gsync due the the only one input problem.

But even if adaptive sync VESA will come out it is questionable if
NVidia ever will support it, but support from Intel and ATI should be
enough to give this thing a foothold in the market.

Werner

Am 29.12.14 03:55, schrieb Ant:
> On 12/28/2014 4:46 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
>
>>> I remember KVMs with DVIs being so expensive several years ago. Are they
>>> much cheaper now? What about HDMI + USB?
>>
>> You could price KVMs by shopping around online. Try Newegg.
>
> Still expensive from quick searches on Google's shopping. :(
Well since DVI is on its way out being replaced by Displayport, they
probably won´t become cheaper.

Werner

Am 30.12.14 08:27, schrieb Werner Punz:
> Am 28.12.14 21:08, schrieb Rin Stowleigh:
>
>> The one exception to this might be if the VESA standard for adaptive
>> sync actually ever materializes in a meaningful way and becomes a
>> standard feature of all monitors. I could see that putting some
>> downward pressure on prices but I'm not sure I would count on it.
>>
> The standard should come out next year, hopefully then new monitors with
> adaptive sync with more than one input will materialize then. To late
> for me, however I just bought a new monitor which fits to my needs, but
> it is not gsync due the the only one input problem.
>
> But even if adaptive sync VESA will come out it is questionable if
> NVidia ever will support it, but support from Intel and ATI should be
> enough to give this thing a foothold in the market.
>
>
> Werner
>
Actually I read up on it, VESA Adaptive Sync is part of the Displayport
1.2a standard, just optional, ATI already supports it in their cards,
however monitors which do support it will come out soon, there are none
yet while there is a handful of g-sync monitors available (3-4 models).
NVidia is not going to support VESA adaptive sync they want to stay on
the g-sync route for now.

Werner

On Tue, 30 Dec 2014 08:36:14 +0100, Werner Punz <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:

>Am 30.12.14 08:27, schrieb Werner Punz:
>> Am 28.12.14 21:08, schrieb Rin Stowleigh:
>>
>>> The one exception to this might be if the VESA standard for adaptive
>>> sync actually ever materializes in a meaningful way and becomes a
>>> standard feature of all monitors. I could see that putting some
>>> downward pressure on prices but I'm not sure I would count on it.
>>>
>> The standard should come out next year, hopefully then new monitors with
>> adaptive sync with more than one input will materialize then. To late
>> for me, however I just bought a new monitor which fits to my needs, but
>> it is not gsync due the the only one input problem.
>>
>> But even if adaptive sync VESA will come out it is questionable if
>> NVidia ever will support it, but support from Intel and ATI should be
>> enough to give this thing a foothold in the market.
>>
>>
>> Werner
>>
>Actually I read up on it, VESA Adaptive Sync is part of the Displayport
>1.2a standard, just optional, ATI already supports it in their cards,
>however monitors which do support it will come out soon, there are none
>yet while there is a handful of g-sync monitors available (3-4 models).
>NVidia is not going to support VESA adaptive sync they want to stay on
>the g-sync route for now.
>
>Werner

It'd feel like Adaptive Sync should easily be the next standard... AMD
already supports it and both Sony & MS had gone with AMD on the
consoles, but HDMI feels like it has already been embraced over
Displayport.

Some of the new midrange PC monitors only have HDMI (and a DVI to HDMI
cable) and no Displayport. I think until both 4k monitors and TV's are
mainstream, we're going to be in limbo on this.