On 2024-12-30 08:08, chrisv wrote:
> -hh wrote:
>
>> A fair & balanced point (idiocy snipped)
>
> Unlike -highhorse's lying "point".
>
> "Haters" being "loudly critical" of Photoshop is only his snittish
> "interpretation" of the advocates' common-sense value arguments.
>
> In this thread I admitted that I've never used Photoshop. But can he
> quote me being critical of its performance or quality? No, he can't.
>
> It's snits like -highhorse who has always attacked unfairly. Not the
> advocates. He will never escape this reality, no matter how much he
> try to twists it.

As far as I know, Huntzinger criticizes from the perspective of a Mac
user. To him, anything that doesn't closely follow the Apple approach is
simply intolerable.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

On 2024-12-30 12:53, D wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>> On 2024-12-29 06:29, D wrote:
>>> On Sat, 29 Dec 2024, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

....

>>> Another option to libreoffice, for the ones who do not like it is
>>> Abiword. Tried it briefly, it worked, but libreoffice always was more
>>> than enough for my needs, so I've stayed with it for business use for
>>> a decade or two.
>>
>> If you're never sharing documents with others and only need to write,
>> AbiWord would definitely be my go-to. I love that little program.
>
> Ahh... so it doesn't save in easily exportable file formats?

The support for Word documents is partial. So says wikipedia, and so
says my vague recollection.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 12/30/24 10:24 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> On 2024-12-30 08:08, chrisv wrote:
>> -hh wrote:
>>
>>> A fair & balanced point (idiocy snipped)
>>
>> Unlike -highhorse's lying "point".
>>
>> "Haters" being "loudly critical" of Photoshop is only his snittish
>> "interpretation" of the advocates' common-sense value arguments.
>>
>> In this thread I admitted that I've never used Photoshop.  But can he
>> quote me being critical of its performance or quality?  No, he can't.

Oh, there's _always_ a quote, especially when we reject the attempt to
goalpost move away from criticism on cost:

[quote]
We have given examples of equivalency many times, only to have them
denied as not being good-enough. GIMP is a classic example. It's
plenty-good for the vast majority of users (and free!), but it's not
the best, not "the standard", so gets denied.
[/quote]

<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.linux.advocacy/c/cSh74e_ySCE/m/zvPqn2g0AwAJ>

[quote]
>Yeah, everyone who wants to manipulate images needs to pay $600 for
>Photoshop and then use only a 16th of its functionality. <rolls eyes>
>
>It's a pretty lame troll, by the way.

Oh, of course. The market only needs one product, the "best" product,
you know. There's no need to alternative products that cost less and
work fine for many. (rolling eyes)
[/quote]

<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.linux.advocacy/c/4zKpEYtLFhQ/m/r5VdssSfhK4J>

>> It's snits like -highhorse who has always attacked unfairly.  Not the
>> advocates.  He will never escape this reality, no matter how much he
>> try to twists it.

Oh, look: chrisv tries to also forget sbd's infamous and hilariously
bad "[but] Photoshop should be 70,000 times better than GIMP" thread.

> As far as I know, Huntzinger criticizes from the perspective of a Mac
> user. To him, anything that doesn't closely follow the Apple approach is
> simply intolerable.

Nah, its merely pragmatism in real life application, by knowing what
issues are worth the effort vs which are jousting at windmills. Often
done with an eye on IRL costs, vs as a time squandering hobby.

As I said back in 2012:

[quote]
Merely the pragmatism of 'right tool for the job' instead of a "cut
off one's own nose" religious intolerance based on supposedly superior
moral principles.
[/quote]

<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.linux.advocacy/c/4zKpEYtLFhQ/m/ekQQblqAUx4J>

....and here we are a decade later with the same philosophy still in
operation, and for which why I still use all 3 (Mac/Win/Linux): it is
simply each in their own way for what they're good at...

....which necessitates having the wisdom to *not* use the wrong tool for
the job, due to some misguided allegiance to FOSS/whatever windmill.

Try it sometime.

-hh

On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 08:35:45 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> I am a fan of anything that is community driven, but I am also aware
> that communities break apart over the most ridiculous of things and
> often use that difference of opinion as a basis to fork a project.

The Mandrake to Mandriva transition was in part due to a suit by Hearst
over their Mandrake the Magician comic strip. Naming your distro after a
hallucinogenic plant isn't good.

On 30/12/2024 19:13, rbowman wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 08:35:45 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> I am a fan of anything that is community driven, but I am also aware
>> that communities break apart over the most ridiculous of things and
>> often use that difference of opinion as a basis to fork a project.
>
> The Mandrake to Mandriva transition was in part due to a suit by Hearst
> over their Mandrake the Magician comic strip. Naming your distro after a
> hallucinogenic plant isn't good.
>
Oh...I dunno...

Lophophora williamsii has a certain ring...
--
“Ideas are inherently conservative. They yield not to the attack of
other ideas but to the massive onslaught of circumstance"

- John K Galbraith

On 2024-12-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 30/12/2024 13:12, chrisv wrote:
>
>> rbowman wrote:
>>
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> But we all have experience of other BMW drivers on the road ... I need
>>>> say no more ...
>>
>> I've never noticed anything amiss with BMW drivers. No, I am not
>> biased because I one owned one.
>
> It used to be Volvos. Cars with apparently no windows or mirrors, just a
> narrow view out of the front
>
> BMW was briefly a drug dealers car, but thereal cunts today drive an Audi...

Around here, Audi has caught up with BMW in terms of percentage
driven by assholes. A mechanic friend believes that assholes
are attracted to any German car. The VW Golf and Jetta appear
to be favoured by young urban racers.

I try to spread the rumour that before you are allowed to purchase
a BMW, you must sign a letter of undertaking in which you promise
to drive like an asshole at any opportunity.

Disclaimer: Not all BMW (and Audi) drivers are assholes. I know
several quite nice BMW owners. But statistically...

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>On 2024-12-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 30/12/2024 13:12, chrisv wrote:
>>> rbowman wrote:
>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> But we all have experience of other BMW drivers on the road ... I need
>>>>> say no more ...
>>>
>>> I've never noticed anything amiss with BMW drivers. No, I am not
>>> biased because I one owned one.
>>
>> It used to be Volvos. Cars with apparently no windows or mirrors, just a
>> narrow view out of the front
>>
>> BMW was briefly a drug dealers car, but thereal cunts today drive an Audi...
>
>Around here, Audi has caught up with BMW in terms of percentage
>driven by assholes. A mechanic friend believes that assholes
>are attracted to any German car. The VW Golf and Jetta appear
>to be favoured by young urban racers.
>
>I try to spread the rumour that before you are allowed to purchase
>a BMW, you must sign a letter of undertaking in which you promise
>to drive like an asshole at any opportunity.
>
>Disclaimer: Not all BMW (and Audi) drivers are assholes. I know
>several quite nice BMW owners. But statistically...

You have to ask what kind of person needs a BMW - if they aren't going
to speed, why are they buying it? Is it just for status? Probably,
they wish to "own the road", i.e. create a hazard for normal people.
I'm not one to talk, when I was young I drove like a psycho at times,
but in my middle age I am a very patient and calm driver, methodical.
A Corolla is all I would need.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

In comp.os.linux.misc Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On 2024-12-30 06:53, D wrote:
>> On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>> If you're never sharing documents with others and only need to write,
>>> AbiWord would definitely be my go-to. I love that little program.
>>
>> Ahh... so it doesn't save in easily exportable file formats?
>
> I just checked and noticed that it saves in PDF, ODT and DOCX in
> addition to its own format. However, when I opened a few ODT documents
> to see how it would handle them, I notice that it failed with the one
> which included a simple table. I notice that it can produce its own, but
> I can't fathom why it didn't display it properly here.

One thing I like about Ted (word processor, not text editor) is it
uses RTF as its native format, and that of course is supported for
reading and writing by any M$ Office version or even WordPad. It
supports tables and images, with more limitations than ODT or DOCX,
but well enough to do the job.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

On 2024-12-30 14:40, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> On 2024-12-29 23:28, rbowman wrote:
>> On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 17:06:31 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>> If I can use this laptop with Fedora on it until the machine inevitably
>>> kicks the bucket, I'll be happy. I don't like the idea of changing my
>>> hardware every three, four or even five years. If I can go ten with it,
>>> I'll be satisfied to retire it in favour of something new from Framework
>>> or System76.
>>
>> My Fedora box is a ten year old Dell with a 4th gen i5. I did get a
>> little
>> snappier processor on eBay and added 8 GB or RAM and a SSD but I'm not
>> planning an upgrade. The only limitation is the only PCIe slot is in use
>> so the SSD is SATA rather than NVMe so it boots a little slower than the
>> Ryzen 7 Ubuntu box.  Considering it's been up 41 days that is not a big
>> deal.
>
> Nowadays, speed is only an issue if you're playing games or encoding
> videos. Otherwise, the machines we were running even around 2010 should
> be more than sufficient for the majority of people and their use of the
> web, social media and e-mail. Sure, it won't load as fast as a machine
> from this decade, but it's not the kind of difference as people suffered
> through when some were running Pentiums and others still used a 386.

Memory can be an issue, though.

I had to change to another machine for two reasons. One, that 8 GiB was
not enough, machine was swapping actively, and the motherboard was maxed.

This is because software became memory hogs. Thunderbird, Firefox with a
bunch of windows, and LO. After a week, they eat memory.

The other reason is that Nvidia had stopped supporting my card, and
nouveau was not up to the task. I changed to AMD video.

The older machine I used for a time for guests. Works fine, its power is
fine, and is over 10 year old.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

lying asshole -hh wrote:

> (garbage snipped)

Gosh, not one quote of advocate "haters" being "loudly critical" of
Photoshop. Only quotes of advocates making reasonable points about
value, and one example of an advocate (sdb) who arbitrarity assigned a
one cent cost to GIMP. Why does -highhorse think that his snittish
attack is valid because of one brain-fart? Why does -highhorse feel
the need to lie about me "trying to forget" that brain-fart, which I
called-out at the time? You don't see trolls calling each other out,
when they say something stupid.

Why doesn't -highhorse quote me saying that Photoshop is a powerful
tool for professionals and serious amateurs?

What an asshole.

Meanwhile, I have quotes that directly show -highhorse *lying* to
attack, like his snittish assertion that any advocate would "globally
reject" Photoshop "for all possible consumers".

--
"Personally, I have no particular love for Photoshop's pricetag
either, but that doesn't mean that I'll globally reject it for all
possible consumers" - "-hh", snittishly pretending that cola
advocates "globally reject" Photoshop for "all possible consumers"

Joel wrote:

> Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>
>>I try to spread the rumour that before you are allowed to purchase
>>a BMW, you must sign a letter of undertaking in which you promise
>>to drive like an asshole at any opportunity.
>>
>>Disclaimer: Not all BMW (and Audi) drivers are assholes. I know
>>several quite nice BMW owners. But statistically...

Made up, imaginary statistics.

>You have to ask what kind of person needs a BMW -

No, you don't.

> (idiocy snipped)

It's nothing to do with wanting to "own the road". It is probably not
"just for status". Many just want a better vehicle to drive. BMW's
are, generally, better vehicles to drive.

--
"Oh, wait, let me guess: it is because 98% of the world are, how
would you say it? Oh right: 'fscking idiot sheep'?" - lying
asshole "-hh", lying shamelessly

On 2024-12-30 17:01, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2024-12-30 14:40, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>> On 2024-12-29 23:28, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 17:06:31 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>
>>>> If I can use this laptop with Fedora on it until the machine inevitably
>>>> kicks the bucket, I'll be happy. I don't like the idea of changing my
>>>> hardware every three, four or even five years. If I can go ten with it,
>>>> I'll be satisfied to retire it in favour of something new from
>>>> Framework
>>>> or System76.
>>>
>>> My Fedora box is a ten year old Dell with a 4th gen i5. I did get a
>>> little
>>> snappier processor on eBay and added 8 GB or RAM and a SSD but I'm not
>>> planning an upgrade. The only limitation is the only PCIe slot is in use
>>> so the SSD is SATA rather than NVMe so it boots a little slower than the
>>> Ryzen 7 Ubuntu box.  Considering it's been up 41 days that is not a big
>>> deal.
>>
>> Nowadays, speed is only an issue if you're playing games or encoding
>> videos. Otherwise, the machines we were running even around 2010
>> should be more than sufficient for the majority of people and their
>> use of the web, social media and e-mail. Sure, it won't load as fast
>> as a machine from this decade, but it's not the kind of difference as
>> people suffered through when some were running Pentiums and others
>> still used a 386.
>
> Memory can be an issue, though.
>
> I had to change to another machine for two reasons. One, that 8 GiB was
> not enough, machine was swapping actively, and the motherboard was maxed.

I found this to be an issue even with the new MacBook Air M1. Regardless
of what Apple claims, 8GB on Apple silicon is not like 16GB on a PC. 8GB
was great in 2010, not in 2021.

> This is because software became memory hogs. Thunderbird, Firefox with a
> bunch of windows, and LO. After a week, they eat memory.

I imagine that you never closed those programs. Do they have known
memory leaks?

> The other reason is that Nvidia had stopped supporting my card, and
> nouveau was not up to the task. I changed to AMD video.
>
> The older machine I used for a time for guests. Works fine, its power is
> fine, and is over 10 year old.

As far as I know, Nouveau has full support for NVIDIA GPUs into the 8xx
range. Anything after that doesn't get full support because the firmware
is closed. What was the card you were using?

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

On 2024-12-30 17:18, chrisv wrote:
> lying asshole -hh wrote:
>
>> (garbage snipped)
>
> Gosh, not one quote of advocate "haters" being "loudly critical" of
> Photoshop. Only quotes of advocates making reasonable points about
> value, and one example of an advocate (sdb) who arbitrarity assigned a
> one cent cost to GIMP. Why does -highhorse think that his snittish
> attack is valid because of one brain-fart? Why does -highhorse feel
> the need to lie about me "trying to forget" that brain-fart, which I
> called-out at the time? You don't see trolls calling each other out,
> when they say something stupid.
>
> Why doesn't -highhorse quote me saying that Photoshop is a powerful
> tool for professionals and serious amateurs?
>
> What an asshole.
>
> Meanwhile, I have quotes that directly show -highhorse *lying* to
> attack, like his snittish assertion that any advocate would "globally
> reject" Photoshop "for all possible consumers".

What I like about both GIMP and Krita is that I can install them with
one command and have full access to their features the moment they are
installed. With Photoshop, I imagine that I have to create an account,
put in my credit card information, download the software, enter my
account information to finally be able to use it.

With that said, I ask this question: is anyone else fed up of creating
accounts to download software? Is anyone else fed up of navigating to
specific sites to download those programs and carefully check that
they're not downloading a malware-infested version of the program? I'm
sure that GIMP and Krita lack a few features, but you can use them
anonymously all the while not being charged a cent to use either. You
can also acquire them within seconds, depending on the speed of your
Internet connection.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 20:49:51 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> Around here, Audi has caught up with BMW in terms of percentage driven
> by assholes. A mechanic friend believes that assholes are attracted to
> any German car. The VW Golf and Jetta appear to be favoured by young
> urban racers.

I had an '72 100LS and am surprised the brand survived. Volkswagen's first
attempt at a car with the engine and drive wheels on the wrong end had
issues. Also, it was ergonomically designed for someone other than me and
was the most uncomfortable vehicle I've ever driven and I've driven
everything from a AH Sprite to a Kenworth.

When we parted ways my wife got the Audi and I got the Lincoln. She traded
it in on a Rabbit which was a step up. That was it for me and German cars
although I sometimes think about an original Beetle. Strange for someone
of my generation but I've ridden in one twice and drove a friend's about
100' in the parking lot when he had left it blocking a loading dock.

Back in the day they fascinated me. US cars had the yearly redesign while
here was something that was unchanged for years that could be repaired
with mix and match parts.

It's telling that when Hitler meddled with the auto industry we got the
VW. When Obama stuck his oar in we got the Bolt.

On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 15:55:07 -0500, Joel wrote:

> You have to ask what kind of person needs a BMW - if they aren't going
> to speed, why are they buying it? Is it just for status? Probably,
> they wish to "own the road", i.e. create a hazard for normal people. I'm
> not one to talk, when I was young I drove like a psycho at times, but in
> my middle age I am a very patient and calm driver, methodical. A Corolla
> is all I would need.

A Corolla is sort of big. I don't need 4 doors so a Yaris hatchback works
for me. It will do better than 100 if I'm feeling psychotic although the
excellent fuel economy starts to go downhill at 80.

On 2024-12-31 00:18, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> On 2024-12-30 17:01, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2024-12-30 14:40, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>> On 2024-12-29 23:28, rbowman wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 17:06:31 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If I can use this laptop with Fedora on it until the machine
>>>>> inevitably
>>>>> kicks the bucket, I'll be happy. I don't like the idea of changing my
>>>>> hardware every three, four or even five years. If I can go ten with
>>>>> it,
>>>>> I'll be satisfied to retire it in favour of something new from
>>>>> Framework
>>>>> or System76.
>>>>
>>>> My Fedora box is a ten year old Dell with a 4th gen i5. I did get a
>>>> little
>>>> snappier processor on eBay and added 8 GB or RAM and a SSD but I'm not
>>>> planning an upgrade. The only limitation is the only PCIe slot is in
>>>> use
>>>> so the SSD is SATA rather than NVMe so it boots a little slower than
>>>> the
>>>> Ryzen 7 Ubuntu box.  Considering it's been up 41 days that is not a big
>>>> deal.
>>>
>>> Nowadays, speed is only an issue if you're playing games or encoding
>>> videos. Otherwise, the machines we were running even around 2010
>>> should be more than sufficient for the majority of people and their
>>> use of the web, social media and e-mail. Sure, it won't load as fast
>>> as a machine from this decade, but it's not the kind of difference as
>>> people suffered through when some were running Pentiums and others
>>> still used a 386.
>>
>> Memory can be an issue, though.
>>
>> I had to change to another machine for two reasons. One, that 8 GiB
>> was not enough, machine was swapping actively, and the motherboard was
>> maxed.
>
> I found this to be an issue even with the new MacBook Air M1. Regardless
> of what Apple claims, 8GB on Apple silicon is not like 16GB on a PC. 8GB
> was great in 2010, not in 2021.
>
>> This is because software became memory hogs. Thunderbird, Firefox with
>> a bunch of windows, and LO. After a week, they eat memory.
>
> I imagine that you never closed those programs. Do they have known
> memory leaks?

No, but they don't seem to have a proper memory cleaning strategy.
Probably fragmentation.

>
>> The other reason is that Nvidia had stopped supporting my card, and
>> nouveau was not up to the task. I changed to AMD video.
>>
>> The older machine I used for a time for guests. Works fine, its power
>> is fine, and is over 10 year old.
>
> As far as I know, Nouveau has full support for NVIDIA GPUs into the 8xx
> range. Anything after that doesn't get full support because the firmware
> is closed. What was the card you were using?

MSI N9500GT-MS1G-OC, says the cardbox.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 16:26:02 -0600, chrisv wrote:

> It's nothing to do with wanting to "own the road". It is probably not
> "just for status". Many just want a better vehicle to drive. BMW's
> are, generally, better vehicles to drive.

Better how? I'm not hating on BMWs in particular but 'better' is a
nebulous concept as far as I'm concerned. Maybe it's cynicism from the
days when Cadillacs were better than Buicks that were better than
Oldsmobiles that were better than Pontiacs that were better than
Chevrolets even thought it was the same damn platform. Of course if your
Buick only had three faux portholes the neighbors knew you were either
cheap or living above your means.

On 2024-12-31, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 16:26:02 -0600, chrisv wrote:
>
>> It's nothing to do with wanting to "own the road". It is probably not
>> "just for status". Many just want a better vehicle to drive. BMW's
>> are, generally, better vehicles to drive.

I'm not disputing whether BMWs are better vehicles, whether to drive
or for some other reason. What I do notice is that many people who
drive BMWs feel that the car confers some sort of superior class on
the driver, and they feel it is the God-given duty for us plebes who
drive lesser cars to get out of their way - to the point of making
exasperated hand gestures at those of us who don't.

> Better how? I'm not hating on BMWs in particular but 'better' is a
> nebulous concept as far as I'm concerned. Maybe it's cynicism from the
> days when Cadillacs were better than Buicks that were better than
> Oldsmobiles that were better than Pontiacs that were better than
> Chevrolets even thought it was the same damn platform. Of course if your
> Buick only had three faux portholes the neighbors knew you were either
> cheap or living above your means.

While the preachers sit and get stoned in their Buicks
Jesus Christ rolls by in his Ford.
-- Michael Murphey

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

On 12/30/24 6:54 AM, D wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> On 2024-12-29 06:44, D wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, Farley Flud wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 23:47:29 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    I agree that the GIMPs GUI can be hard to navigate
>>>>>    and use sometimes.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I cannot understand this at all.
>>>>
>>>> An image is opened.  The user then decides what to do with the
>>>> image. He then uses the menu to invoke the appropriate action.
>>>> What could be simpler?
>>>>
>>>> As with most GUIs, there are more than one way to invoke actions.
>>>> Either use the menu or the many toolboxes.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, if a user does not understand the rudiments of image
>>>> processing then he will be confused and frustrated by any GUI.
>>>
>>> Also don't underestimate the power of habit. If you are used to
>>> photoshop, moving to something else will be painful.
>>>
>>> But if you have no prior experience, it will be different.
>>>
>>> My father has been a happy gimp user for many years, and he is 73. No
>>> problem with the gui. The only thing he is sensitive to is if they
>>> make changes or move buttons around. But all software makers enjoy
>>> doing that.
>>
>> My father is going to turn 80 last year and happily used Linux Mint
>> until he deided to buy himself a new mini desktop with Windows 10 on
>> it. If anything, he preferred Mint and asked me whether there was a
>> way to implement some of its functionality onto the desktop like the
>> way that it imports photos and videos from a phone. I didn't bother to
>> install it on his new machine though.
>
> That's a shame. If I would be there I would gladly install mint for him,
> to at least have one less windows machine in the world. ;)

Mint ain't perfect - but it's a huge leap over M$.

Let's HOPE the poster WILL install Mint on his dad's machine
and arrange it to boot first.

On 12/31/24 12:11 AM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2024-12-31, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 16:26:02 -0600, chrisv wrote:
>>
>>> It's nothing to do with wanting to "own the road". It is probably not
>>> "just for status". Many just want a better vehicle to drive. BMW's
>>> are, generally, better vehicles to drive.
>
> I'm not disputing whether BMWs are better vehicles, whether to drive
> or for some other reason. What I do notice is that many people who
> drive BMWs feel that the car confers some sort of superior class on
> the driver, and they feel it is the God-given duty for us plebes who
> drive lesser cars to get out of their way - to the point of making
> exasperated hand gestures at those of us who don't.

Um ... yea ... "status"/"class". That never seems
to go away. Likely engraved in Human Wiring ....

>> Better how? I'm not hating on BMWs in particular but 'better' is a
>> nebulous concept as far as I'm concerned. Maybe it's cynicism from the
>> days when Cadillacs were better than Buicks that were better than
>> Oldsmobiles that were better than Pontiacs that were better than
>> Chevrolets even thought it was the same damn platform. Of course if your
>> Buick only had three faux portholes the neighbors knew you were either
>> cheap or living above your means.
>
> While the preachers sit and get stoned in their Buicks
> Jesus Christ rolls by in his Ford.
> -- Michael Murphey

Being 'regular' has a certain virtue, but STILL
the whole 'status' thing kinda rules.

I'd love one of those 'jet-plane-looking Ferrari's"
but I'm NOT gonna buy one. MORE likely to go on
an 'antique' site and buy a late 60s Falcon or
something similar. That's me. Was looking at Nash
Ramblers the other day ... rebuilt the engine on
one of those in my youth ......

Hmmmm ... ONE was in MY town ... now with exotic
paint and such. MIGHT have been the one I'd worked
on all those years ago. Go figure ...

Clue - after replacing rings, you squirt HEAVY
motor oil, and a little gas, into the plug holes.
The oil makes up for the bad ring fit - and the
gas adds some spark. Then you run it all day until
the rings seat better.

Weird factoid ... used to go to a doc-in-the-box,
Korean, weird sense of humor but once you 'got
it' he was really funny. One of the fill-in helpers
showed up in one of those exotic Ferrari's ... had
a rich fam, but he was SUCH a loser/slacker that
they INSISTED that he have a Regular People job :-)

On 12/30/24 9:01 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 15:55:07 -0500, Joel wrote:
>
>> You have to ask what kind of person needs a BMW - if they aren't going
>> to speed, why are they buying it? Is it just for status? Probably,
>> they wish to "own the road", i.e. create a hazard for normal people. I'm
>> not one to talk, when I was young I drove like a psycho at times, but in
>> my middle age I am a very patient and calm driver, methodical. A Corolla
>> is all I would need.
>
> A Corolla is sort of big. I don't need 4 doors so a Yaris hatchback works
> for me. It will do better than 100 if I'm feeling psychotic although the
> excellent fuel economy starts to go downhill at 80.

YARIS ???

A Corolla is probably BEST car to own
these days. Reliable, not TOO big, not
TOO complicated. Turn the key and GO.

When/if I need a 'new' car - it'll be a
Corolla. Won't be brand new though -
'tested' instead :-)

On 12/30/24 2:13 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 08:35:45 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> I am a fan of anything that is community driven, but I am also aware
>> that communities break apart over the most ridiculous of things and
>> often use that difference of opinion as a basis to fork a project.
>
> The Mandrake to Mandriva transition was in part due to a suit by Hearst
> over their Mandrake the Magician comic strip. Naming your distro after a
> hallucinogenic plant isn't good.

Well, MAYBE not :-)

Used to hang with The Natives ... they had
all kinds of odd things scraped from under
rocks and stuff ..........

Sometimes you'd see The Gods ... funny !

Sorry, constitutional unbeliever ....

On 30/12/2024 20:49, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> I try to spread the rumour that before you are allowed to purchase
> a BMW, you must sign a letter of undertaking in which you promise
> to drive like an asshole at any opportunity.

It is in fact worse than that...

http://vps.templar.co.uk/Cartoons%20and%20Politics/bmw-drive-like-an-asshole-congratulations-on-your-purchase-now-you-have-to-watch-our-mandatory-instructional-video.jpg

--
It is the folly of too many to mistake the echo of a London coffee-house
for the voice of the kingdom.

Jonathan Swift

On 30/12/2024 22:01, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2024-12-30 14:40, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>> On 2024-12-29 23:28, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 17:06:31 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>
>>>> If I can use this laptop with Fedora on it until the machine inevitably
>>>> kicks the bucket, I'll be happy. I don't like the idea of changing my
>>>> hardware every three, four or even five years. If I can go ten with it,
>>>> I'll be satisfied to retire it in favour of something new from
>>>> Framework
>>>> or System76.
>>>
>>> My Fedora box is a ten year old Dell with a 4th gen i5. I did get a
>>> little
>>> snappier processor on eBay and added 8 GB or RAM and a SSD but I'm not
>>> planning an upgrade. The only limitation is the only PCIe slot is in use
>>> so the SSD is SATA rather than NVMe so it boots a little slower than the
>>> Ryzen 7 Ubuntu box.  Considering it's been up 41 days that is not a big
>>> deal.
>>
>> Nowadays, speed is only an issue if you're playing games or encoding
>> videos. Otherwise, the machines we were running even around 2010
>> should be more than sufficient for the majority of people and their
>> use of the web, social media and e-mail. Sure, it won't load as fast
>> as a machine from this decade, but it's not the kind of difference as
>> people suffered through when some were running Pentiums and others
>> still used a 386.
>
> Memory can be an issue, though.
>
> I had to change to another machine for two reasons. One, that 8 GiB was
> not enough, machine was swapping actively, and the motherboard was maxed.
>
> This is because software became memory hogs. Thunderbird, Firefox with a
> bunch of windows, and LO. After a week, they eat memory.
>
> The other reason is that Nvidia had stopped supporting my card, and
> nouveau was not up to the task. I changed to AMD video.
>
> The older machine I used for a time for guests. Works fine, its power is
> fine, and is over 10 year old.
>

My Nvidia equipped machine is my interim server. (Pi4B coming soon).
Around 10 years old now

Intel onboard graphics now is sufficient for my desktop.

I too had to increase from 8GB mostly because massive loads of shit
written in python are memory gobblers.

As is 3GB dedicated to a WINDOWS XP VM.

HP EliteDesk 800 G2 SFF Quad Core i5-6500 is what it says it is

Its about 5 years old now. There are tons of this class of machine going
for peanuts everywhere. They were sold to small businesses as office
machines. In fact its the cheapest way to buy that processor!

I cant recommend this enough for Linux. I cant remember if I had to mess
with the bios to get the right boot, but once it booted into the live CD
it was utterly plain sailing.

--
It is the folly of too many to mistake the echo of a London coffee-house
for the voice of the kingdom.

Jonathan Swift

On 30/12/2024 23:18, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> As far as I know, Nouveau has full support for NVIDIA GPUs into the 8xx
> range. Anything after that doesn't get full support because the firmware
> is closed. What was the card you were using?

Ive never had a problem getting correct Nvidia drivers for the gfx cards.

--
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the
other is to refuse to believe what is true.”

—Soren Kierkegaard