On 2024-12-29 16:54, TJ wrote:
> On 2024-12-28 06:12, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-12-27 18:04, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 14:57:55 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, I appreciate that I can get gratis a piece of software that is
>>>>> that good.
>>>>
>>>> If you think Free Software could be better, and you would rather not
>>>> give
>>>> money to a proprietary company, why not contribute some of that
>>>> money to
>>>> the development of the Free Software and help make it better?
>>>
>>> Especially since projects like KDE and LibreOffice really need it.
>>>
>>
>> Note that money is not the only way to contribute. Even by using the
>> software you contribute, by making others aware of it, you contribute.
>> I actually like projects that are not super wealthy. The linux
>> foundation and firefox are excellent examples of how power corrupts.
>> Would never dream of contributing with money to those two.
>
> Indeed. My discretionary funds are very limited, so I can not afford to
> contribute with money. But Mageia, as my distro of choice, is community-
> based, meaning it is maintained by volunteers who contribute their free
> time to make it as good as we can.
>
> I have no coding skills to speak of, so development isn't my forte. But,
> as the current Leader of the Mageia Quality Assurance (QA) Team, I
> contribute in other, equally valuable ways.
>
> We are the layer between the developers and the public, tasked with
> testing updates before they are released to be as sure as possible that
> they won't break Mageia systems. Developers are only human, and
> sometimes mistakes creep in - a missing dependency, or maybe the package
> won't work on hardware the developer doesn't have. Our job is to catch
> that stuff.
>
> We also test the install ISOs before they are released.
>
> We are always looking for new members, and users of all skill levels are
> welcome. One of the great things about Mageia is that the opinions of
> new contributors are received with as much respect as those of our "old
> hands."
>
> But those aren't the only ways to contribute. If something in Mageia
> doesn't work for you, please file a bug report. We also need
> translators, documentation writers, bug triaging, website designers, the
> list goes on.
>
> https://www.mageia.org/en/contribute/ is a good place to start if you
> wish to contribute to our project.

I would have liked to try out your distribution before I settled for
Fedora. Your approach is pretty neat.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41

On 2024-12-29 17:02, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> On 2024-12-29 06:44, D wrote:
>>> My father has been a happy gimp user for many years, and he is 73. No
>>> problem with the gui. The only thing he is sensitive to is if they make
>>> changes or move buttons around.
>>> But all software makers enjoy doing that.
>
> On 2024-12-29, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>> My father is going to turn 80 last year and happily used Linux Mint
>> until he deided to buy himself a new mini desktop with Windows 10 on it.
>> If anything, he preferred Mint and asked me whether there was a way to
>> implement some of its functionality onto the desktop like the way that
>> it imports photos and videos from a phone. I didn't bother to install it
>> on his new machine though.
>
> Depending on what type of phone, it can be simple to open the CameraRoll
> folder through a USB cable. In Android, you may have to explicitly
> authorize the use of USB for anything beyond charging.
>
> On iPhone, Windows can mount the entire iCloud Photos database as a
> folder in "This PC" (or "My Computer" or what they call it this year.
> On Linux, there is "icloudpd", a python program that can grab the last
> several hundred new photos from an iCloud account. I have used both.

I don't want to subscribe to another cloud service so I'm content to
just keep the photos on my phone for now. Whatever my wife shares with
me eventually gets synced to the cloud too from my computer's storage.
If and when I run out of space on the phone or I upgrade to a new
device, I'll just upload whatever's on it to the cloud and make it
accessible to the new device.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41

Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

>Remember that, since Adobe moved to the rentware model, it removed any
>incentive to actually continue improving the product, since customers pay
>exactly the same regardless.

They will continue to improve it. Just as Free software continues to
get improved, despite not being "sold". There is user demand and
competitive pressure.

--
"a huge % of Android users dont know they have an Android phone" -
"True Linux advocate" Hadron Quark

On 12/29/24 4:28 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 11:24:13 -0500, -hh wrote:
>
>> In a manner of speaking, it doesn't really matter too much for casual
>> users, for most of the productivity gain is through becoming practiced
>> with the UI and its underlying workflow design philosophy.
>
> Some things are just badly designed, though.

Of course.

> For example, the Microsoft Office “Ribbon” originated in the days before
> modern widescreen monitors became popular. But most text documents
> continue to be laid out in portrait mode. So you have this mismatch which
> leads to wasted, unused space on the sides of the screen, while this big
> “Ribbon” thing on the top reduces the amount of space available to show
> your document.
>
> This is why the LibreOffice Sidebar is a better design. It leaves more of
> the height of the screen available to show the long dimension of your
> document.

Good example.

>> I had a horrific experience with a contractor using {not-MS}office
>> some years ago ... some glitching with the FOSS spreadsheet not
>> charting the project's performance data correctly ...
>
> Sure it wasn’t Excel? Microsoft Excel is notorious for leading users into
> such errors. There are entire websites devoted to collecting instances of
> such screwups.

No, I know it wasn't MS, as it became part of the evidence I had to work
through with our lawyers in order to terminate their contract. I could
search the COLA archives to see if it was LibreOffice or OpenOffice, but
frankly, I don't recall nor care anymore.

>>>> GIMP is basically as good as PhotoShop.
>>>
>>> Again, I wouldn't know. I've assumed that PS is better, based upon its
>>> popularity and price. I would expect evolving technology would favor
>>> the payware, when it comes to outright performance.
>
> Remember that, since Adobe moved to the rentware model, it removed any
> incentive to actually continue improving the product, since customers pay
> exactly the same regardless.

That argument can go either way, but the ground truth AFAIC is that
shortly after that change, Adobe reported to their stockholders that
revenue (or profits?) doubled as a result of that business decision.

>> Which is fine, but then attempts to compare products for assessing
>> things like value should therefore be deferred to those who actually
>> have relevant experience with the tools in question.
>
> Too often, though, we see supposed experts who have become so invested in
> their expensive proprietary tools and the companies that make them, that
> they refuse to believe that something else could offer just as much power
> for much less money.

A fair & balanced point which isn't particularly relevant to what gets
shouted about on COLA, for on this go-around many of the longstanding
"haters" are finally admitted that they have zero experience with the
product that they've been so loudly critical of for so long. To use an
automotive analogy, its been like someone lambasting BMWs despite never
having even learned how to drive a car, let alone a sporty one.

-hh

On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 19:17:46 -0500, -hh wrote:

> To use an automotive analogy, its been like someone lambasting BMWs
> despite never having even learned how to drive a car, let alone a sporty
> one.

But we all have experience of other BMW drivers on the road ... I need say
no more ...

On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 22:02:10 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:

> In Android, you may have to explicitly authorize the use of USB for
> anything beyond charging.

In reasonably new Android releases you need to enable developer mode. You
do that by tapping the build number 7 times I think. Just keep tapping.

On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 03:27:40 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 19:17:46 -0500, -hh wrote:
>
>> To use an automotive analogy, its been like someone lambasting BMWs
>> despite never having even learned how to drive a car, let alone a
>> sporty one.
>
> But we all have experience of other BMW drivers on the road ... I need
> say no more ...

It sometimes spills over to BMW riders when the same demographic purchases
bikes. I wouldn't mind an old R75/5 but I've got too many bikes already.

On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 18:53:51 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> I would have liked to try out your distribution before I settled for
> Fedora. Your approach is pretty neat.

I had not heard of it. The genealogy is interesting. I used Mandrake years
ago and Liked it. It begat Mandriva which seems to have begotten Mageia.

On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 17:06:31 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> If I can use this laptop with Fedora on it until the machine inevitably
> kicks the bucket, I'll be happy. I don't like the idea of changing my
> hardware every three, four or even five years. If I can go ten with it,
> I'll be satisfied to retire it in favour of something new from Framework
> or System76.

My Fedora box is a ten year old Dell with a 4th gen i5. I did get a little
snappier processor on eBay and added 8 GB or RAM and a SSD but I'm not
planning an upgrade. The only limitation is the only PCIe slot is in use
so the SSD is SATA rather than NVMe so it boots a little slower than the
Ryzen 7 Ubuntu box. Considering it's been up 41 days that is not a big
deal.

On 12/29/24 11:45 AM, pH wrote:
> On 2024-12-29, 186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
>> On 12/28/24 6:05 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>> In comp.os.linux.misc D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-12-27 18:04, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 14:57:55 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, I appreciate that I can get gratis a piece of software that is
>>>>>>> that good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you think Free Software could be better, and you would rather not give
>>>>>> money to a proprietary company, why not contribute some of that money to
>>>>>> the development of the Free Software and help make it better?
>>>>>
>>>>> Especially since projects like KDE and LibreOffice really need it.
>>>>
>>>> Note that money is not the only way to contribute. Even by using the
>>>> software you contribute,
>>
>>
>> Well ... "using" doesn't buy much coffee ....
>>
>> The prob is the usual WAYS of donating - they do not
>> seem remotely secure these days. No, I'm not gonna
>> put my card number into some, MAYbe legit, website.
>>
>> A mail address you can send a money-order or something
>> to would feel much better.
>
> Huzzah for checks and the like. It can be challenging to find an address to
> send it to, as I've found out for a project called "Allstar" for HAM radio.

At least a physical address ! Best to send some
kind of 'money-order' or equiv ... you might lose
THAT much money to fraud but at least they won't
get an account routing-number or anything !

Yea, net-pay IS easy ... but these days it's also
too easy to SCAM. Hard to trust a Chase-Manhattan
site now, much less some obscure developer cadre
in Germany or wherever.

And no, I don't even know how to buy a BitCoin ...
and those are doomed to CRASH hard pretty soon
anyway.

On 30/12/2024 04:28, rbowman wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 17:06:31 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> If I can use this laptop with Fedora on it until the machine inevitably
>> kicks the bucket, I'll be happy. I don't like the idea of changing my
>> hardware every three, four or even five years. If I can go ten with it,
>> I'll be satisfied to retire it in favour of something new from Framework
>> or System76.
>
> My Fedora box is a ten year old Dell with a 4th gen i5. I did get a little
> snappier processor on eBay and added 8 GB or RAM and a SSD but I'm not
> planning an upgrade. The only limitation is the only PCIe slot is in use
> so the SSD is SATA rather than NVMe so it boots a little slower than the
> Ryzen 7 Ubuntu box. Considering it's been up 41 days that is not a big
> deal.
+1

--
It is the folly of too many to mistake the echo of a London coffee-house
for the voice of the kingdom.

Jonathan Swift

On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> On 2024-12-29 04:07, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>> not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) writes:
>>> They're interesting cases. Google is determining the direction that
>>> the Web evolves, thus the direction Firefox development has to go, and
>>> they're the main ones paying Mozilla (for now). Hardware manufacturers
>>> determine how computers evolve, and thus how Linux is developed to
>>> work well on them, and maybe the Linux Foundation gets some funding
>>> from the computer hardware companies (is this info public?), or at
>>> least many code contributions from Intel and the like.
>>
>> The end of [1] has a high-level breakdown of funding sources. [2] lists
>> its corporate members and [3] has the fee structure (towards the end).
>>
>> [1]
>> https://www.linuxfoundation.org/resources/publications/linux-foundation-annual-report-2024
>> [2] https://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/members
>> [3]
>> https://www.linuxfoundation.org/hubfs/LF%20Brand%20Assets/lf_member_benefits_101424a.pdf
>>
>> Intel, AMD, Arm, Microsoft, Google, IBM etc contribute code; you can
>> find them in the kernel’s git history.
>
> They contribute code but don't contribute much of the money toward Linux
> projects. Bryan Lunduke did a good job a few weeks ago of demonstrating how
> the Linux Foundation does very little to help Linux.

Yes! It seems their biggest project the past 3-4 years was to build out a
surveillance state to catch people who did not want the corona vaccine.
That's when I decided they will never get a penny from me.

On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> On 2024-12-29 06:29, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 29 Dec 2024, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>
>>> In comp.os.linux.misc chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>>> 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>>> chrisv wrote:
>>>>>> Farley Flud wrote:
>>>>>>> The Photoshop lackeys are always the instigators.  They seem greatly
>>>>>>> distressed by the fact that some folks do not worship their idol.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And, golly gee, the free product isn't as good as the expensive
>>>>>> product.  What a "tragedy".
>>>>>
>>>>>   LibreOffice beats the crap out of anything M$ offers
>>>>>   these days.
>>>>
>>>> I wouldn't know.  Both are more than sufficient for my lightweight
>>>> use.  Obviously I choose to use the cheaper one.
>>>
>>> I consider both way too bloated, complicated, and slow so choose
>>> other simpler programs like Ted for word processing. In the same
>>> way I haven't touched PhotoShop or GIMP in a very long time since
>>> mtPaint does everything I want. The fact that neither has very
>>> active development is a plus more than anything - when I do want
>>> to try something more unusual it still works the same as it did
>>> years ago when I tried it last, whereas commercial software or its
>>> open-source copies will have changed everything just for the sake
>>> of keeping busy and looking new.
>>
>> Another option to libreoffice, for the ones who do not like it is Abiword.
>> Tried it briefly, it worked, but libreoffice always was more than enough
>> for my needs, so I've stayed with it for business use for a decade or two.
>
> If you're never sharing documents with others and only need to write, AbiWord
> would definitely be my go-to. I love that little program.

Ahh... so it doesn't save in easily exportable file formats?

On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> On 2024-12-29 06:44, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, Farley Flud wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 23:47:29 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>    I agree that the GIMPs GUI can be hard to navigate
>>>>    and use sometimes.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I cannot understand this at all.
>>>
>>> An image is opened.  The user then decides what to do with the
>>> image. He then uses the menu to invoke the appropriate action.
>>> What could be simpler?
>>>
>>> As with most GUIs, there are more than one way to invoke actions.
>>> Either use the menu or the many toolboxes.
>>>
>>> Of course, if a user does not understand the rudiments of image
>>> processing then he will be confused and frustrated by any GUI.
>>
>> Also don't underestimate the power of habit. If you are used to photoshop,
>> moving to something else will be painful.
>>
>> But if you have no prior experience, it will be different.
>>
>> My father has been a happy gimp user for many years, and he is 73. No
>> problem with the gui. The only thing he is sensitive to is if they make
>> changes or move buttons around. But all software makers enjoy doing that.
>
> My father is going to turn 80 last year and happily used Linux Mint until he
> deided to buy himself a new mini desktop with Windows 10 on it. If anything,
> he preferred Mint and asked me whether there was a way to implement some of
> its functionality onto the desktop like the way that it imports photos and
> videos from a phone. I didn't bother to install it on his new machine though.

That's a shame. If I would be there I would gladly install mint for him,
to at least have one less windows machine in the world. ;)

On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, pH wrote:

> On 2024-12-28, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-12-27 18:04, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 14:57:55 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, I appreciate that I can get gratis a piece of software that is
>>>>> that good.
>>>>
>>>> If you think Free Software could be better, and you would rather not give
>>>> money to a proprietary company, why not contribute some of that money to
>>>> the development of the Free Software and help make it better?
>>>
>>> Especially since projects like KDE and LibreOffice really need it.
>>>
>>
>> Note that money is not the only way to contribute. Even by using the
>> software you contribute, by making others aware of it, you contribute. I
>> actually like projects that are not super wealthy. The linux foundation
>> and firefox are excellent examples of how power corrupts. Would never
>> dream of contributing with money to those two.
>
> This grabs my attention...as essentially a 'bystander' I've been totally
> unaware of these types of sentiments.
> Can someone give (or point me to) a thumbnail of why someone might have
> these opinions?
>
> Just curious....
>
> Pureheart in Aptos

Sure... https://lunduke.substack.com/ writes plenty about the corruption
of firefox and the linux foundation.

On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, TJ wrote:

> On 2024-12-29 12:57, Farley Flud wrote:
>> I scoff at these idiots who purchase exorbitant pickup trucks/SUVs
>> and then fill them up with sub-grade, discount gasoline.
>>
>> Every vehicle deserves only TOP TIER gas, and every computer deserves
>> only customized GNU/Linux.
>>
> My grandfather's 72-year-old tractor is still an important part of our
> machinery fleet, used almost every day during the growing season. The manual
> states: "Use a good, clean, gasoline with an octane rating of at least 65."
>
> I can't find any of the 65 octane stuff, so I use 87, closest I can get. With
> an optional manifold, the manual says the tractor is supposed to be able to
> run on something called "low-cost fuel," whatever that is. I can't find any
> of that, either.
>
> I *could* buy premium, TOP TIER gas for it, but it would be a complete waste
> of money that I don't have, and I might have to de-tune the timing so it
> would run the way it should. I don't have the time, or the inclination, to do
> that.
>
> As for my Linux installs, Mageia only needs a little customization here and
> there to get it the way I like it, so that's what I use. Besides, as the
> Leader of the Mageia Quality Assurance Team, I really ought to use the distro
> pretty much as is if it's to stay usable by the less experienced users that
> don't know yet what to change and what to leave alone.
>
> YMMV.
>
> TJ
>

What makes Mageia unique or different? I haven't heard about it before.

On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, TJ wrote:

> On 2024-12-28 06:12, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-12-27 18:04, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 14:57:55 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, I appreciate that I can get gratis a piece of software that is
>>>>> that good.
>>>>
>>>> If you think Free Software could be better, and you would rather not give
>>>> money to a proprietary company, why not contribute some of that money to
>>>> the development of the Free Software and help make it better?
>>>
>>> Especially since projects like KDE and LibreOffice really need it.
>>>
>>
>> Note that money is not the only way to contribute. Even by using the
>> software you contribute, by making others aware of it, you contribute. I
>> actually like projects that are not super wealthy. The linux foundation and
>> firefox are excellent examples of how power corrupts. Would never dream of
>> contributing with money to those two.
>
> Indeed. My discretionary funds are very limited, so I can not afford to
> contribute with money. But Mageia, as my distro of choice, is
> community-based, meaning it is maintained by volunteers who contribute their
> free time to make it as good as we can.
>
> I have no coding skills to speak of, so development isn't my forte. But, as
> the current Leader of the Mageia Quality Assurance (QA) Team, I contribute in
> other, equally valuable ways.
>
> We are the layer between the developers and the public, tasked with testing
> updates before they are released to be as sure as possible that they won't
> break Mageia systems. Developers are only human, and sometimes mistakes creep
> in - a missing dependency, or maybe the package won't work on hardware the
> developer doesn't have. Our job is to catch that stuff.
>
> We also test the install ISOs before they are released.
>
> We are always looking for new members, and users of all skill levels are
> welcome. One of the great things about Mageia is that the opinions of new
> contributors are received with as much respect as those of our "old hands."
>
> But those aren't the only ways to contribute. If something in Mageia doesn't
> work for you, please file a bug report. We also need translators,
> documentation writers, bug triaging, website designers, the list goes on.
>
> https://www.mageia.org/en/contribute/ is a good place to start if you wish to
> contribute to our project.
>
> TJ
>

How are you trending with volunteers over time? Is it growing?

On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> On 2024-12-29 16:00, TJ wrote:
>> On 2024-12-29 12:57, Farley Flud wrote:
>>> I scoff at these idiots who purchase exorbitant pickup trucks/SUVs
>>> and then fill them up with sub-grade, discount gasoline.
>>>
>>> Every vehicle deserves only TOP TIER gas, and every computer deserves
>>> only customized GNU/Linux.
>>>
>> My grandfather's 72-year-old tractor is still an important part of our
>> machinery fleet, used almost every day during the growing season. The
>> manual states: "Use a good, clean, gasoline with an octane rating of at
>> least 65."
>>
>> I can't find any of the 65 octane stuff, so I use 87, closest I can get.
>> With an optional manifold, the manual says the tractor is supposed to be
>> able to run on something called "low-cost fuel," whatever that is. I can't
>> find any of that, either.
>>
>> I *could* buy premium, TOP TIER gas for it, but it would be a complete
>> waste of money that I don't have, and I might have to de-tune the timing so
>> it would run the way it should. I don't have the time, or the inclination,
>> to do that.
>>
>> As for my Linux installs, Mageia only needs a little customization here and
>> there to get it the way I like it, so that's what I use. Besides, as the
>> Leader of the Mageia Quality Assurance Team, I really ought to use the
>> distro pretty much as is if it's to stay usable by the less experienced
>> users that don't know yet what to change and what to leave alone.
>>
>> YMMV.
>>
>> TJ
>
> If I can use this laptop with Fedora on it until the machine inevitably kicks
> the bucket, I'll be happy. I don't like the idea of changing my hardware
> every three, four or even five years. If I can go ten with it, I'll be
> satisfied to retire it in favour of something new from Framework or System76.

I usually buy a new laptop every 3 to 4 years, but that's because I'm
interested in how hw develops and I see it as a bit of luxury that I can
afford.

My old laptop goes to my father, and his old laptop does duty as a music
player or backup server or something similar. I think the oldest one he
has is a 11 or 12 year old macbook air, but the battery time is down to 30
minutes or so, so that one is pretty close to retirement.

I'm looking to acquire a new laptop to use as my backup server. The
existing one is 9 years old, and I'd like to buy one with at least 1 TB of
ssd disk instead of the 512 I have today. Let's see if this is the year
when I'll run into something attractive, although I can't escape the
feeling that it should be possible to get one for free from some company.

-hh wrote:

> A fair & balanced point (idiocy snipped)

Unlike -highhorse's lying "point".

"Haters" being "loudly critical" of Photoshop is only his snittish
"interpretation" of the advocates' common-sense value arguments.

In this thread I admitted that I've never used Photoshop. But can he
quote me being critical of its performance or quality? No, he can't.

It's snits like -highhorse who has always attacked unfairly. Not the
advocates. He will never escape this reality, no matter how much he
try to twists it.

--
"What's more unfortunate is the sheer close-mindedness that goes into
their irrational hate of an inanimate object." - lying asshole
"-hh", lying shamelessly

rbowman wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> But we all have experience of other BMW drivers on the road ... I need
>> say no more ...

I've never noticed anything amiss with BMW drivers. No, I am not
biased because I one owned one.

>It sometimes spills over to BMW riders when the same demographic purchases
>bikes. I wouldn't mind an old R75/5 but I've got too many bikes already.

Hmm... While I concede that some BMW car owners buy them for "the
wrong reasons" (i.e. prestige), I think that bike riders are more
practical and grounded.

--
'whenever there is touch labor being invested, if it isn't a "zero"
expense, then the 'Linux is free' claim becomes untrue.' - lying
asshole "-hh"

On 2024-12-29 23:18, rbowman wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 18:53:51 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> I would have liked to try out your distribution before I settled for
>> Fedora. Your approach is pretty neat.
>
> I had not heard of it. The genealogy is interesting. I used Mandrake years
> ago and Liked it. It begat Mandriva which seems to have begotten Mageia.

I am a fan of anything that is community driven, but I am also aware
that communities break apart over the most ridiculous of things and
often use that difference of opinion as a basis to fork a project.
Similarly, a lot of these communities have been poisoned with an
ideology where merit takes a backseat to sexual preference, race or
gender. I don't want to use the atrocious result of that poison. At
least with Fedora, I know that no matter how ridiculous the community
might be in its pursuit of "diversity," the product does everything it
can to be as professional as possible.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

On 2024-12-29 23:28, rbowman wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 17:06:31 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> If I can use this laptop with Fedora on it until the machine inevitably
>> kicks the bucket, I'll be happy. I don't like the idea of changing my
>> hardware every three, four or even five years. If I can go ten with it,
>> I'll be satisfied to retire it in favour of something new from Framework
>> or System76.
>
> My Fedora box is a ten year old Dell with a 4th gen i5. I did get a little
> snappier processor on eBay and added 8 GB or RAM and a SSD but I'm not
> planning an upgrade. The only limitation is the only PCIe slot is in use
> so the SSD is SATA rather than NVMe so it boots a little slower than the
> Ryzen 7 Ubuntu box. Considering it's been up 41 days that is not a big
> deal.

Nowadays, speed is only an issue if you're playing games or encoding
videos. Otherwise, the machines we were running even around 2010 should
be more than sufficient for the majority of people and their use of the
web, social media and e-mail. Sure, it won't load as fast as a machine
from this decade, but it's not the kind of difference as people suffered
through when some were running Pentiums and others still used a 386.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

On 30/12/2024 13:12, chrisv wrote:
> rbowman wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>> But we all have experience of other BMW drivers on the road ... I need
>>> say no more ...
>
> I've never noticed anything amiss with BMW drivers. No, I am not
> biased because I one owned one.
>
It used to be Volvos. Cars with apparently no windows or mirrors, just a
narrow view out of the front

BMW was briefly a drug dealers car, but thereal cunts today drive an Audi...

>> It sometimes spills over to BMW riders when the same demographic purchases
>> bikes. I wouldn't mind an old R75/5 but I've got too many bikes already.
>
> Hmm... While I concede that some BMW car owners buy them for "the
> wrong reasons" (i.e. prestige), I think that bike riders are more
> practical and grounded.
>
Depends on the milieu - plenty of menopausal men cranking up their
beemer bikes to try and impress someone. Never sure quite who...

--
Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the
gospel of envy.

Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

Winston Churchill

On 2024-12-30 06:53, D wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> On 2024-12-29 06:29, D wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, 29 Dec 2024, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>
>>>> In comp.os.linux.misc chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>>>> chrisv wrote:
>>>>>>> Farley Flud wrote:
>>>>>>>> The Photoshop lackeys are always the instigators.  They seem
>>>>>>>> greatly
>>>>>>>> distressed by the fact that some folks do not worship their idol.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And, golly gee, the free product isn't as good as the expensive
>>>>>>> product.  What a "tragedy".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   LibreOffice beats the crap out of anything M$ offers
>>>>>>   these days.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wouldn't know.  Both are more than sufficient for my lightweight
>>>>> use.  Obviously I choose to use the cheaper one.
>>>>
>>>> I consider both way too bloated, complicated, and slow so choose
>>>> other simpler programs like Ted for word processing. In the same
>>>> way I haven't touched PhotoShop or GIMP in a very long time since
>>>> mtPaint does everything I want. The fact that neither has very
>>>> active development is a plus more than anything - when I do want
>>>> to try something more unusual it still works the same as it did
>>>> years ago when I tried it last, whereas commercial software or its
>>>> open-source copies will have changed everything just for the sake
>>>> of keeping busy and looking new.
>>>
>>> Another option to libreoffice, for the ones who do not like it is
>>> Abiword. Tried it briefly, it worked, but libreoffice always was more
>>> than enough for my needs, so I've stayed with it for business use for
>>> a decade or two.
>>
>> If you're never sharing documents with others and only need to write,
>> AbiWord would definitely be my go-to. I love that little program.
>
> Ahh... so it doesn't save in easily exportable file formats?

I just checked and noticed that it saves in PDF, ODT and DOCX in
addition to its own format. However, when I opened a few ODT documents
to see how it would handle them, I notice that it failed with the one
which included a simple table. I notice that it can produce its own, but
I can't fathom why it didn't display it properly here.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

On 2024-12-30 06:54, D wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> On 2024-12-29 06:44, D wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, Farley Flud wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 23:47:29 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    I agree that the GIMPs GUI can be hard to navigate
>>>>>    and use sometimes.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I cannot understand this at all.
>>>>
>>>> An image is opened.  The user then decides what to do with the
>>>> image. He then uses the menu to invoke the appropriate action.
>>>> What could be simpler?
>>>>
>>>> As with most GUIs, there are more than one way to invoke actions.
>>>> Either use the menu or the many toolboxes.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, if a user does not understand the rudiments of image
>>>> processing then he will be confused and frustrated by any GUI.
>>>
>>> Also don't underestimate the power of habit. If you are used to
>>> photoshop, moving to something else will be painful.
>>>
>>> But if you have no prior experience, it will be different.
>>>
>>> My father has been a happy gimp user for many years, and he is 73. No
>>> problem with the gui. The only thing he is sensitive to is if they
>>> make changes or move buttons around. But all software makers enjoy
>>> doing that.
>>
>> My father is going to turn 80 last year and happily used Linux Mint
>> until he deided to buy himself a new mini desktop with Windows 10 on
>> it. If anything, he preferred Mint and asked me whether there was a
>> way to implement some of its functionality onto the desktop like the
>> way that it imports photos and videos from a phone. I didn't bother to
>> install it on his new machine though.
>
> That's a shame. If I would be there I would gladly install mint for him,
> to at least have one less windows machine in the world. ;)

He's gotten used to how Windows 11 works. However, once the thing
becomes too slow for him, I'll install either Fedora or Mint for him
because even though his machine is a 8th or 9th generation i3, it
shouldn't have to struggle to do the basics.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member