On Sat, 6 Jul 2024 07:20:11 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <v6ar7b$3ngh6$2@dont-email.me>:

> On Sat, 6 Jul 2024 05:22:33 -0000 (UTC), Jack Strangio wrote:
>
>> I'm looking at you GTK with your /tmp/gtk_errs that might end up being
>> owned by root ...
>
> How can that happen, unless you’ve been running GUI programs as root?

His example was gparted...which you helpfully snipped, of course.

How would you _not_ run gparted as root, Perfessor?

--
-v

On Sat, 6 Jul 2024 22:58:05 -0000 (UTC), vallor wrote:

> How would you _not_ run gparted as root, Perfessor?

From the OP:

m70t [jvs] /home/jvs > gparted
bash: /tmp/gtk_errs: Permission denied

That’s not running as root now, is it?

On Sat, 6 Jul 2024 12:56:11 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> The interpretation of the "rules" is that the files can be deleted, or
> maybe not.

Given that many Linux systems are using tmpfs, which is entirely RAM-
based, for /tmp and other similar filesystems, that’s a guarantee that the
files in there will *not* survive a reboot.

On 2024-07-07 03:33, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Jul 2024 12:56:11 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> The interpretation of the "rules" is that the files can be deleted, or
>> maybe not.
>
> Given that many Linux systems are using tmpfs, which is entirely RAM-
> based, for /tmp and other similar filesystems, that’s a guarantee that the
> files in there will *not* survive a reboot.

openSUSE is using hard disk for /tmp, and has currently no working
periodical job to clean it.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On Sun, 07 Jul 2024 04:10:53 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> On 2024-07-07 03:33, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Sat, 6 Jul 2024 12:56:11 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>
>>> The interpretation of the "rules" is that the files can be deleted, or
>>> maybe not.
>>
>> Given that many Linux systems are using tmpfs, which is entirely RAM-
>> based, for /tmp and other similar filesystems, that’s a guarantee that the
>> files in there will *not* survive a reboot.

Ah, but that is only /one/ of the conditions for keeping a clean /tmp
directory. If you maintain a large uptime (say, even more than a few
hours), you really should, periodically, clean up the contents of /tmp

> openSUSE is using hard disk for /tmp, and has currently no working
> periodical job to clean it.

So, a (wise) openSUSE sysadmin should either look for and install the
tmpwatch utility (https://github.com/pete4abw/tmpwatch) or craft their
own cleanup script. Mine, btw, I called cleantmp.sh, and is little more
than a sequence of find(1) commands, scheduled to run once per hour.

--
Lew Pitcher
"In Skills We Trust"

On Sun, 7 Jul 2024 01:31:41 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <v6cr5s$1kfb$1@dont-email.me>:

> On Sat, 6 Jul 2024 22:58:05 -0000 (UTC), vallor wrote:
>
>> How would you _not_ run gparted as root, Perfessor?
>
> From the OP:
>
> m70t [jvs] /home/jvs > gparted
> bash: /tmp/gtk_errs: Permission denied
>
> That’s not running as root now, is it?

Yes, and that's the problem.

GPARTED(8) GParted Manual GPARTED(8)

NAME
gparted - GNOME Partition Editor for manipulating disk
partitions.

SYNOPSIS
gparted [device]...

DESCRIPTION
The gparted application is the GNOME partition editor
for creating, reorganizing, and deleting disk parti‐
tions.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _

I don't know of many distributions set up to edit disk partitions
without running as root -- though it is possible, it's not very
likely.

--
-v ASUS TUF Dash F15 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3060 Mobile
OS: Linux 5.15.0-113-lowlatency Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 15.9G
"Nobody can be just like me. Even I have trouble."

On Sun, 7 Jul 2024 02:43:28 -0000 (UTC), Lew Pitcher wrote:

> If you maintain a large uptime (say, even more than a few
> hours), you really should, periodically, clean up the contents of /tmp

On this machine:

root@theon:~ # du -ks /tmp
350812 /tmp
root@theon:~ # uptime
15:43:05 up 12 days, 1:38, 7 users, load average: 0.41, 0.43, 0.45

Never really been a problem.

On 7 Jul 2024 03:25:47 GMT, vallor wrote:

> On Sun, 7 Jul 2024 01:31:41 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
> <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <v6cr5s$1kfb$1@dont-email.me>:
>
>> That’s not running as root now, is it?
>
> Yes, and that's the problem.

Maybe think of GParted as Nature’s way of telling you not to run GUI tools
as root.

On Sun, 7 Jul 2024 03:59:21 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <v6d3qp$6ida$1@dont-email.me>:

> On 7 Jul 2024 03:25:47 GMT, vallor wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 7 Jul 2024 01:31:41 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
>> <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <v6cr5s$1kfb$1@dont-email.me>:
>>
>>> That’s not running as root now, is it?
>>
>> Yes, and that's the problem.
>
> Maybe think of GParted as Nature’s way of telling you not to run GUI tools
> as root.

Okay, I'll bite -- how do you modify partition tables without running
as root?

--
-v ASUS TUF Dash F15 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3060 Mobile
OS: Linux 5.15.0-113-lowlatency Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 15.9G
"I'm busier than a one-eyed cat watching two mouseholes."

On 2024-07-07, vallor wrote:

> On Sun, 7 Jul 2024 03:59:21 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
> <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <v6d3qp$6ida$1@dont-email.me>:
>
>> On 7 Jul 2024 03:25:47 GMT, vallor wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 7 Jul 2024 01:31:41 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
>>> <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <v6cr5s$1kfb$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>
>>>> That’s not running as root now, is it?
>>>
>>> Yes, and that's the problem.
>>
>> Maybe think of GParted as Nature’s way of telling you not to run GUI tools
>> as root.
>
> Okay, I'll bite -- how do you modify partition tables without running
> as root?

By having write access to the device?

--
Nuno Silva

On 2024-07-07 at 04:10 Carlos E. R. wrote:
> openSUSE is using hard disk for /tmp, and has currently no working
> periodical job to clean it.

Yes it does, and it's even enabled by default, it just has to be tuned up
to your/sysadmin's liking. On my system (v15.4):

# systemctl list-timers | grep tmp
Mon 2024-07-08 05:38:18 CEST 17h left Fri 2024-07-05 12:10:56 CEST 1
day 23h ago systemd-tmpfiles-clean.timer systemd-tmpfiles-clean.service

see man systemd-tmpfiles, tmpfiles.d for details.

On 7 Jul 2024 04:03:41 GMT, vallor wrote:

> On Sun, 7 Jul 2024 03:59:21 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
> <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <v6d3qp$6ida$1@dont-email.me>:
>
>> On 7 Jul 2024 03:25:47 GMT, vallor wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 7 Jul 2024 01:31:41 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
>>> <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <v6cr5s$1kfb$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>
>>>> That’s not running as root now, is it?
>>>
>>> Yes, and that's the problem.
>>
>> Maybe think of GParted as Nature’s way of telling you not to run GUI tools
>> as root.
>
> Okay, I'll bite -- how do you modify partition tables without running
> as root?

Obviously it’s the “GUI tools” part that’s the problem, not the “root” part.

On Sun, 7 Jul 2024 12:17:04 +0200, marrgol wrote:

> # systemctl list-timers | grep tmp

I wonder if there is a “UUOG” to go with “UUOC”:

systemctl list-timers '*tmp*'

On 2024-07-08 at 00:09 Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> # systemctl list-timers | grep tmp
>
> I wonder if there is a “UUOG” to go with “UUOC”:
>
> systemctl list-timers '*tmp*'

This produces more output than I was after.

systemctl list-timers --quiet '*tmp*'

would do, but since I can type "| grep tmp" faster than
"--quiet '*tmp*'", I'll probably stick to the former. ;-)

On 2024-07-07 05:59, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On 7 Jul 2024 03:25:47 GMT, vallor wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 7 Jul 2024 01:31:41 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
>> <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <v6cr5s$1kfb$1@dont-email.me>:
>>
>>> That’s not running as root now, is it?
>>
>> Yes, and that's the problem.
>
> Maybe think of GParted as Nature’s way of telling you not to run GUI tools
> as root.

gparted is a GUI tool intended to be run as root.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On Sun, 7 Jul 2024 22:00:31 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <v6f35v$gmj7$2@dont-email.me>:

> On 7 Jul 2024 04:03:41 GMT, vallor wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 7 Jul 2024 03:59:21 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
>> <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <v6d3qp$6ida$1@dont-email.me>:
>>
>>> On 7 Jul 2024 03:25:47 GMT, vallor wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 7 Jul 2024 01:31:41 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
>>>> <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <v6cr5s$1kfb$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>>
>>>>> That’s not running as root now, is it?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, and that's the problem.
>>>
>>> Maybe think of GParted as Nature’s way of telling you not to run GUI
>>> tools as root.
>>
>> Okay, I'll bite -- how do you modify partition tables without running
>> as root?
>
> Obviously it’s the “GUI tools” part that’s the problem, not the “root”
> part.

So you don't think there should be GUI tools to manage disk
partitions, filesystems, and indeed, anything managed
with uid 0? Really?

Sounds elitist.

--
-v ASUS TUF Dash F15 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3060 Mobile
OS: Linux 5.15.0-113-lowlatency Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 15.9G
"The Borg assimilated my race & all I got was this T-shirt"

On Sun, 07 Jul 2024 22:10:42 -0400, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
> So you don't think there should be GUI tools to manage disk
> partitions, filesystems, and indeed, anything managed
> with uid 0? Really?
>
> Sounds elitist.

The command line tools work just as well. Avoiding gui applications when
running as root reduces the risk of malware by reducing the attack surface.

Specifically it protects against supply chain attacks that succeeds in planting
malware in gtk or qt.

Whether it's appropriate or not depends on your security needs.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

On Mon, 08 Jul 2024 14:46:42 -0400, David W. Hodgins wrote:

> The command line tools work just as well.

fdisk for setting up disk partitions, plus of course mkfs for actually
initializing filesystems. And rsync for robust bulk-copying of files.

Tip: download a copy of the latest SystemRescue
<https://www.system-rescue.org/> and keep it on a handy USB stick. A
friend, whom I had previously set up with a Linux Mint installation on his
new MSI Cubi 5, came back complaining that it wasn’t booting any more.
From his description, it sounded like it had run out of disk space.

I booted it up with SystemRescue, and quickly discovered that, while there
was still plenty of room on the main part of the terabyte SSD allocated
to /home, the root partition (60GB or so) had been completely filled up
with snapshots from some Time Machine type backup utility--I forget the
exact name. It was easy enough to dump them all. If he wants to use that
app again, I hope it has an option to choose a more sensible place to keep
its backups.

On Mon, 8 Jul 2024 02:54:52 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> On 2024-07-07 05:59, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> On 7 Jul 2024 03:25:47 GMT, vallor wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 7 Jul 2024 01:31:41 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
>>> <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <v6cr5s$1kfb$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>
>>>> That’s not running as root now, is it?
>>>
>>> Yes, and that's the problem.
>>
>> Maybe think of GParted as Nature’s way of telling you not to run GUI
>> tools as root.
>
> gparted is a GUI tool intended to be run as root.

And we have seen what happens when it is.

Some decades ago there was a devilish little gadget, shaped exactly like a
legitimate electrical plug, with a sign on it that said “The Little Wonder
Fuse-Blower: Insert In Electrical Socket And PRESS!”.

Funny how many people did exactly that ...

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 23:35 this Monday (GMT):
> On Mon, 8 Jul 2024 02:54:52 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> On 2024-07-07 05:59, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> On 7 Jul 2024 03:25:47 GMT, vallor wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 7 Jul 2024 01:31:41 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
>>>> <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <v6cr5s$1kfb$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>>
>>>>> That’s not running as root now, is it?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, and that's the problem.
>>>
>>> Maybe think of GParted as Nature’s way of telling you not to run GUI
>>> tools as root.
>>
>> gparted is a GUI tool intended to be run as root.
>
> And we have seen what happens when it is.
>
> Some decades ago there was a devilish little gadget, shaped exactly like a
> legitimate electrical plug, with a sign on it that said “The Little Wonder
> Fuse-Blower: Insert In Electrical Socket And PRESS!”.
>
> Funny how many people did exactly that ...

Well, curiosity killing the cat and all.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On Tue, 9 Jul 2024 02:10:04 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:

> Well, curiosity killing the cat and all.

Leaving a thumb drive laying on the sidewalk or a parking lot is a good
gag too. Some people just have to see what's on it.

On 2024-07-09 01:35, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Jul 2024 02:54:52 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> On 2024-07-07 05:59, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> On 7 Jul 2024 03:25:47 GMT, vallor wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 7 Jul 2024 01:31:41 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
>>>> <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <v6cr5s$1kfb$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>>
>>>>> That’s not running as root now, is it?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, and that's the problem.
>>>
>>> Maybe think of GParted as Nature’s way of telling you not to run GUI
>>> tools as root.
>>
>> gparted is a GUI tool intended to be run as root.
>
> And we have seen what happens when it is.

That it works perfectly, as designed.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On Tue, 09 Jul 2024 06:57:18 -0400, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2024-07-09 01:35, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Mon, 8 Jul 2024 02:54:52 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
<snip>
>>> gparted is a GUI tool intended to be run as root.
>> And we have seen what happens when it is.
> That it works perfectly, as designed.

It increses the risk of things leaking to other user's on the system, if not done
properly.

As to running gparted as a regular user ...
$ ls -l /dev/sd?
brw-rw---- 1 root disk 8, 0 Jul 8 20:54 /dev/sda
brw-rw---- 1 root disk 8, 16 Jul 8 20:54 /dev/sdb
brw-rw---- 1 root disk 8, 32 Jul 8 20:54 /dev/sdc
brw-rw---- 1 root disk 8, 48 Jul 8 20:54 /dev/sdd
brw-rw---- 1 root disk 8, 64 Jul 8 20:54 /dev/sde
brw-rw---- 1 root disk 8, 80 Jul 8 20:54 /dev/sdf

I think member's of the disk group can do it as a regular user, but I have not
tested it to see if there are other issues.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote at 03:27 this Tuesday (GMT):
> On Tue, 9 Jul 2024 02:10:04 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:
>
>> Well, curiosity killing the cat and all.
>
> Leaving a thumb drive laying on the sidewalk or a parking lot is a good
> gag too. Some people just have to see what's on it.

Have you ever done that?
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On Wed, 10 Jul 2024 13:40:04 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:

> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote at 03:27 this Tuesday (GMT):
>> On Tue, 9 Jul 2024 02:10:04 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:
>>
>>> Well, curiosity killing the cat and all.
>>
>> Leaving a thumb drive laying on the sidewalk or a parking lot is a good
>> gag too. Some people just have to see what's on it.
>
>
> Have you ever done that?

Loaded an unknown drive? Nope. I was even skeptical about using a drive
still in the plastic packaging that our company used as a gimme at shows.

It's a popular technique. There was a suspicion that Israel fucked up the
air-gapped Iranian centrifuges that way.