Just wondering what programs (aside from the coreutils/X11 and other
elements that make up a basic install), do you consider to be a vital
part of YOUR Linux install? What are the little additional tools that
you can't live without, or just consider to be necessary that maybe
others wouldn't?

For me, its
- fortune
- cowsay
- xpenguins
- fvwm(3)
- oneko
- emacs
- mc
- zsh
- asclock (using the FreeAMP theme)
- PCManFM
- star
- urxvt
- xpat2
- xlock
- links
- most
- lftp
- lzip
- xclip
- screen
- lrzsz
- gcc/g++/gdc
- nasm
- locate
- dar

On Sun, 7 Jul 2024 01:10:25 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:

> Just wondering what programs (aside from the coreutils/X11 and other
> elements that make up a basic install), do you consider to be a vital
> part of YOUR Linux install? What are the little additional tools that
> you can't live without, or just consider to be necessary that maybe
> others wouldn't?

latest Python, including MicroPython/CircuitPython
vim
VS Code with several extensions
clang
gcc, including some microprocessor toolchains
..NET SDK
QGIS
PostgreSQL
SQLite
DBeaver
Arduino IDE, V1 and/or V2
Brave
Tor
npm and friends
screen

On 7 Jul 2024 02:10:06 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> latest Python ...

Also Jupyter <https://jupyter.org/>. Actually JupyterLab now.

Well-known for being a powerful data-analysis framework, but also handy
for quick “scratchpad” programming, and not just in Python. The overhead
is low enough that I can keep it running all the time.

On Sun, 7 Jul 2024 03:40:40 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> On 7 Jul 2024 02:10:06 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>
>> latest Python ...
>
> Also Jupyter <https://jupyter.org/>. Actually JupyterLab now.
>
> Well-known for being a powerful data-analysis framework, but also handy
> for quick “scratchpad” programming, and not just in Python. The overhead
> is low enough that I can keep it running all the time.

I do have jupyter installed and have used it for tutorials but it's not
something I use frequently.

On Sun, 7 Jul 2024 01:10:25 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com>
wrote in <slrnv8jqo0.4uu.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh>:

> Just wondering what programs (aside from the coreutils/X11 and other
> elements that make up a basic install), do you consider to be a vital
> part of YOUR Linux install? What are the little additional tools that
> you can't live without, or just consider to be necessary that maybe
> others wouldn't?
>
> For me, its
> - fortune
> - cowsay
> - xpenguins
> - fvwm(3)
> - oneko
> - emacs
> - mc
> - zsh
> - asclock (using the FreeAMP theme)
> - PCManFM
> - star
> - urxvt
> - xpat2
> - xlock
> - links
> - most
> - lftp
> - lzip
> - xclip
> - screen
> - lrzsz
> - gcc/g++/gdc
> - nasm
> - locate
> - dar

pan(1)

I build it from the git repository, linking it with a newer
gmime. (The latter has a recent patch that fixes Newsgroups: handling.)

The cmake that comes with Linux Mint isn't new enough to build the
pan grabbed with git, so that too.

(Sometimes it seems it's turtles all the way down...)

Oh, and tart(1) for the pithy taglines...

--
-v ASUS TUF Dash F15 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3060 Mobile
OS: Linux 5.15.0-113-lowlatency Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 15.9G
"355/113 - Not the famous number Pi, but a great simulation!"

On 7 Jul 2024 04:07:00 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> On Sun, 7 Jul 2024 03:40:40 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> Also Jupyter <https://jupyter.org/>. Actually JupyterLab now.
>>
>> Well-known for being a powerful data-analysis framework, but also handy
>> for quick “scratchpad” programming, and not just in Python. The
>> overhead is low enough that I can keep it running all the time.
>
> I do have jupyter installed and have used it for tutorials but it's not
> something I use frequently.

It’s what I use when I need a calculator. And you get programmability
and multiple symbolic memories for free.

Practical example: car tyre pressures are supposed to be measured when
cold. What happens if I do it when they’re hot?

recommended_pressure = 36 # psi
cold_temp = 293 # kelvin
hot_temp = 333
print("actual pressure = %.2f psi" % (recommended_pressure * cold_temp / hot_temp))
print("underinflation factor = %.1f%%" % ((hot_temp - cold_temp) / hot_temp * 100))

Output:

actual pressure = 31.68 psi
underinflation factor = 12.0%

I'll probably soon regret this list. Please read my signature as
disclaimer.

ack (in /opt)

playing with B sometimes is nice and it has a back-end for 8080 and
Z80 (CP/M) too which sometimes for me is nice to have.

bash-completion

it's ok to be a little lazy.

bc (gavin howard version, includes dc in /opt)

having a dc variant with long register names makes playing the dc
puzzle even nicer.

bitlbee

I want to read my jabber stuff in the same front-end as my IRC chats.

dc

mostly just for fun (as puzzle).

dillo (in /opt until available as up to date package)

writing own dillo plugins is easy and that makes dillo a nice GUI
front-end to smallnet protocols.

doas/opendoas

I'm still in the progress to migrate from sudo to doas.

drawterm (in /opt)

for some top secret reasons.

ed

knowing at least its very basic commands can save your day.

elinks

for some of the smallnet protocols.

emacs

I'd give every other "editor" a chance that gives me elpher, eshell,
GNUS, org-babel and tramp (mastodon.el occasionally). really... ;-D

evolution

I too often get important HTrashMailL to be happy with only using
GNUS. additionally splitting "official" stuff from hobby mail & news
is not a too bad idea.

gambit (scheme, in /opt)

trying to stay up to date with its master branch. I feel like still
in scheme-preschool, but that may change someday.

git

we cannot live with it and we cannot live without it.
<https://xkcd.com/1597/>

mawk

I like "-We" and dislike GAWKisms.

mc

trying to fade out using it but muscle memory is strong.

micropython (in /opt)

to have the unix version at hand to play out some ideas without
needing to attach a micro-controller.

netcat & ncat

life savers for poking around in text based protocols.

nvi

to replace nano and vim-tiny (if in a default install), as I don't
want to get used to vim-isms.

openssh

I'm too used to its config files, so alternative implementations would
screw me up.

qemu

curiosity kills the cat but keeps me alive.

pcc (portable cc, in /opt)

for fun and curiosity.

rlwrap

debugging luxury, try e.g. 'rlwrap nc newsserver nntp' \o/

rsync

openrsync doesn't really replace it yet.

screen

I'd need way to many xterms without it and it can access serially
connected stuff directly. that's the only reason I prefer it over
tmux.

sudo

until I'm confident that I really only need (open)doas.

t(iny)cc (in /opt)

built from its mob branch, because the distributions typically only
include way too outdated versions.

tlsclient

as bonsai tree in /opt, see drawterm.

tor

looking for an alternative because I don't want to get dependent on
Rust (because of arti).

uxn (in /opt)

for fun and puzzling.

w3m

w3mman is my favourite man page front-end outside of emacs.

weechat

typically from the project's repo because they are too fast for
e.g. debian/devuan to keep up with their updates.

wget

...still is more in my muscle memory than curl.

xterm

looks like there is no alternative if I want SIXELs and occasionally
TEK mode.

....

something to scan, print, do the heavy WWW-stuff with all the mean
modern stuff inside, some devtools and compilers, ...

--
I do not bite, I just want to play.

On Sun, 07 Jul 2024 07:14:14 +0042, yeti wrote:

> doas/opendoas
>
> I'm still in the progress to migrate from sudo to doas.

systemd-run0 might be the New Hawtness.

> mawk
>
> I like "-We" and dislike GAWKisms.

perl >> awk (any awk)

> netcat & ncat
>
> life savers for poking around in text based protocols.

Why not socat?

> rsync
>
> openrsync doesn't really replace it yet.

Never heard of openrsync ... ah, another project that exists solely for
licence-political reasons. Not to mention, BSD fragmentation strikes
again!

> wget
>
> ...still is more in my muscle memory than curl.

Not to mention having a much smaller potential attack surface.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

> On Sun, 07 Jul 2024 07:14:14 +0042, yeti wrote:
>
>> doas/opendoas
>>
>> I'm still in the progress to migrate from sudo to doas.
>
> systemd-run0 might be the New Hawtness.

No way! I'll rip out all systemd using distributions here as soon as I
have decided what to use instead. I had a mega fight the other day to
get NFS automounts working with it. It would have been just some
minutes without systemd swallowing every function and doing it in a
totally different unreadable and overcomplicated way.

But the decision not to want systemd is much older. I already partially
switched to Devuan, but then Devuan's ARM-SBC images drove me back to
Debian at least for the ARMish ones.

Now that Debian decided to drop X86, switching away from it is even more
urgent and Devuan (still a good choice on AMD64 and X86) won't be able
to compensate for that.

>> mawk
>>
>> I like "-We" and dislike GAWKisms.
>
> perl >> awk (any awk)

I have AWK in OpenWrt and NetBSD default installs. Perl not. So I
benefit more from keeping my AWK muscles intact.

>> netcat & ncat
>>
>> life savers for poking around in text based protocols.
>
> Why not socat?

I never looked closer at socat and meanwhile I do stuff that's too
complex for n(et)cat in C, micropython or scheme, so I have enough
alternatives without learning new socat tricks.

>> rsync
>>
>> openrsync doesn't really replace it yet.
>
> Never heard of openrsync ... ah, another project that exists solely for
> licence-political reasons. Not to mention, BSD fragmentation strikes
> again!

openrsync lacks a lot of features and was crash-happy when I tried to
use it because I assumed it'd be lighter than the original.

>> wget
>>
>> ...still is more in my muscle memory than curl.
>
> Not to mention having a much smaller potential attack surface.

\o/

--
I do not bite, I just want to play.

On 2024-07-07, yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
>
>> On Sun, 07 Jul 2024 07:14:14 +0042, yeti wrote:
>>
>>> doas/opendoas
>>>
>>> I'm still in the progress to migrate from sudo to doas.
>>
>> systemd-run0 might be the New Hawtness.
>
>
> Now that Debian decided to drop X86, switching away from it is even more
> urgent and Devuan (still a good choice on AMD64 and X86) won't be able
> to compensate for that.
>

I thought they were continuing X86 support for Debian 13.

Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> writes:

> I thought they were continuing X86 support for Debian 13.

A while I read something about dropping X86 without a concrete date in
some mini-debconf notes. There may be decisions now about the date, but
I just do not care any more about it. Alea iacta est.

Being a Debian user since it's pre-releases without even toy-story
names, that really hurts, but my way forward only can mean leaving
De(bi|vu)an.

--
I do not bite, I just want to play.

On 2024-07-07, yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:
> Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>> I thought they were continuing X86 support for Debian 13.
>
> A while I read something about dropping X86 without a concrete date in
> some mini-debconf notes. There may be decisions now about the date, but
> I just do not care any more about it. Alea iacta est.
>
> Being a Debian user since it's pre-releases without even toy-story
> names, that really hurts, but my way forward only can mean leaving
> De(bi|vu)an.
>

I see this
https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/19/debian_to_drop_x86_32/

But the Debian release notes state
https://www.debian.org/releases/testing/release-notes/whats-new.en.html#supported-architectures

> The following are the officially supported architectures for Debian 13:
>
> 32-bit PC (i386) and 64-bit PC (amd64)
> 64-bit ARM (arm64)
> ARM EABI (armel)
> ARMv7 (EABI hard-float ABI, armhf)
> little-endian MIPS (mipsel)
> 64-bit little-endian MIPS (mips64el)
> 64-bit little-endian PowerPC (ppc64el)
> IBM System z (s390x)
>
> Baseline bump for 32-bit PC to i686
>
> The 32-bit PC support (known as the Debian architecture i386) now requires the "long NOP" instruction. Please refer to Baseline for 32-bit PC is now i686 for more information.

The release notes are also dated 2023, so I'm not sure whether The
Register article superceded the release notes or not.

On 07/07/2024 02:10, Borax Man wrote:
> Just wondering what programs (aside from the coreutils/X11 and other
> elements that make up a basic install), do you consider to be a vital
> part of YOUR Linux install? What are the little additional tools that
> you can't live without, or just consider to be necessary that maybe
> others wouldn't?
>
> For me, its
> - fortune
> - cowsay
> - xpenguins
> - fvwm(3)
> - oneko
> - emacs
> - mc
> - zsh
> - asclock (using the FreeAMP theme)
> - PCManFM
> - star
> - urxvt
> - xpat2
> - xlock
> - links
> - most
> - lftp
> - lzip
> - xclip
> - screen
> - lrzsz
> - gcc/g++/gdc
> - nasm
> - locate
> - dar
Dont recognise any.

For me its Geany, Libre Office. GIMP, Scribus Thunderbird, Firefox, ORCA
slicer, gcc and friends, under a windows VM Corel Draw and Rhino CAD,
Screenshot

etc etc.

In fact all you need to create code, 3D prints, PCBs, and keep up with
the world on the interweb...and do my officey type crap

--
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
twenty-first century’s developed world went into hysterical panic over a
globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to
contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen

On Sun, 7 Jul 2024, Borax Man wrote:

>
> Just wondering what programs (aside from the coreutils/X11 and other
> elements that make up a basic install), do you consider to be a vital
> part of YOUR Linux install? What are the little additional tools that
> you can't live without, or just consider to be necessary that maybe
> others wouldn't?
>
> For me, its
> - fortune
> - cowsay
> - xpenguins
> - fvwm(3)
> - oneko
> - emacs
> - mc
> - zsh
> - asclock (using the FreeAMP theme)
> - PCManFM
> - star
> - urxvt
> - xpat2
> - xlock
> - links
> - most
> - lftp
> - lzip
> - xclip
> - screen
> - lrzsz
> - gcc/g++/gdc
> - nasm
> - locate
> - dar
>

For me it's:

vlc
mc
neovim
yt-dlp
bash
alpine (the email client)
rsync
various scripts I've amassed throughout the years for various things
ssh (server and client)
qpdf
python
tor
ffmpg
groff
tectonic (minimal latex distribution)

Probably forgot a few, but these are the first ones that come to mind.

Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote at 01:10 this Sunday (GMT):
>
> Just wondering what programs (aside from the coreutils/X11 and other
> elements that make up a basic install), do you consider to be a vital
> part of YOUR Linux install? What are the little additional tools that
> you can't live without, or just consider to be necessary that maybe
> others wouldn't?
>
> For me, its
> - fortune
> - cowsay
> - xpenguins
> - fvwm(3)
> - oneko
> - emacs
> - mc
> - zsh
> - asclock (using the FreeAMP theme)
> - PCManFM
> - star
> - urxvt
> - xpat2
> - xlock
> - links
> - most
> - lftp
> - lzip
> - xclip
> - screen
> - lrzsz
> - gcc/g++/gdc
> - nasm
> - locate
> - dar

I'm sure I'm forgetting some here, but

git obviously
krita
aseprite
screen
rxvt-unicode
cool-retro-term
audacious
mpv (and the ffmpeg dependency)
imagemagick
picom
vim
n30f
xscreensaver (yes i use it as my locker)
screen
less
rofi
bucklespring (optional)
mc (optional)

aptitude (if on debian based)

sidenote thank you for mentioning xpenguins i have been looking for a
replacement for AMOR (amazing misuse of resources) forever since it wont
compile for me under debian
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> wrote at 13:30 this Sunday (GMT):
> Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote at 01:10 this Sunday (GMT):
[snip]
> sidenote thank you for mentioning xpenguins i have been looking for a
> replacement for AMOR (amazing misuse of resources) forever since it wont
> compile for me under debian

Does anyone know how to make it stop leaving a constant trail? (nautilus
desktop)
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

Borax Man <rotfl...@hotmail.com> [BM]:
BM> Just wondering what programs (aside from the coreutils/X11 and
BM> other elements that make up a basic install), do you consider
BM> to be a vital part of YOUR Linux install?

Some stuff not already mentioned by other posters:

curl # It's a wide, wide world out there. Grab a piece of it!
gpg # It's a very dangerous world out there. You gotta keep your head low!
jq # It's a JSON world out there. Join the fun!
xdotool # It's a world full of boring chores out there. Just automate it!

On Sun, 7 Jul 2024 13:30:03 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:

> sidenote thank you for mentioning xpenguins i have been looking for a
> replacement for AMOR (amazing misuse of resources) forever since it wont
> compile for me under debian

xsnow?

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote at 18:15 this Sunday (GMT):
> On Sun, 7 Jul 2024 13:30:03 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:
>
>> sidenote thank you for mentioning xpenguins i have been looking for a
>> replacement for AMOR (amazing misuse of resources) forever since it wont
>> compile for me under debian
>
> xsnow?

More of a seasonal thing IMO, I only turn that on from September to
March
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On Sun, 07 Jul 2024 10:10:20 +0042, yeti wrote:

> I'll rip out all systemd using distributions here as soon as I
> have decided what to use instead.

Is there anything better than systemd? Why not create something?

On Sun, 07 Jul 2024 16:23:53 +0200, Fritz Wuehler wrote:

> curl

Avoid.

> jq

Yes, has its uses.

> xdotool # It's a world full of boring chores out there. Just automate it!

That’s what the command line is for.

On Sun, 7 Jul 2024 21:21:23 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> On Sun, 07 Jul 2024 10:10:20 +0042, yeti wrote:
>
>> I'll rip out all systemd using distributions here as soon as I have
>> decided what to use instead.
>
> Is there anything better than systemd? Why not create something?

Someday when I'm really bored I'll have to figure out why some people hate
systemd.

On 7 Jul 2024 21:35:36 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> Someday when I'm really bored I'll have to figure out why some people hate
> systemd.

systemd-haters are like the anti-fluoridationists of the Open Source movement.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Jul 2024 10:10:20 +0042, yeti wrote:
>> I'll rip out all systemd using distributions here as soon as I
>> have decided what to use instead.
>
> Is there anything better than systemd? Why not create something?

No need to, there's already SysV init. I make sure it (or something
functionally similar) is installed.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Just wondering what programs (aside from the coreutils/X11 and other
> elements that make up a basic install), do you consider to be a vital
> part of YOUR Linux install?

Beyond a base install it depends entirely on what I have in mind
for doing with the computer. But some that I often end up
installing manually because they're not included in the distro
base:

Network tools that should be there already, but may need
installing (GNU inetutils versions):
ifconfig
telnet
ftp

Other network tools:
links
tin
mosh
nmap
whois
dig

Format Conversions:
ghostscript
imagemagick
ffmpeg

Decompressors I always end up needing eventually:
p7zip or 7z
unrar

If it's a graphical install (always X11):
jwm (window manager)
xzgv (image viewer)
dillo (web browser)
xpdf (PDF viewer)
gv (postscript + pdf viewer)

Other tools:
tree
hunspell
mc
gcc
git
bc
apt-file (Devuan)
aptitude (Devuan - I wish the changelog fetcher worked!)

Lots more tools, especially graphical, depend on what I intend to
do with the computer, eg. Firefox on a PC but not on a RPi Zero.
I've assumed a few programs that others have mentioned, like wget,
are in the distro base packages already.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#