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comp / comp.os.linux.misc / Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication

SubjectAuthor
* NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderSugarBug
`* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderRabidPedagog
 `* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderD
  +- Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderThe Natural Philosopher
  +* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderBorax Man
  |+* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderThe Natural Philosopher
  ||`* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderBorax Man
  || `* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderThe Natural Philosopher
  ||  +* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderD
  ||  |+* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderThe Natural Philosopher
  ||  ||`* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderD
  ||  || +* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderThe Natural Philosopher
  ||  || |+* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderBorax Man
  ||  || ||+* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderD
  ||  || |||`* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderBorax Man
  ||  || ||| +* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderThe Natural Philosopher
  ||  || ||| |`* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderD
  ||  || ||| | `* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderrbowman
  ||  || ||| |  `- Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderD
  ||  || ||| `* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderD
  ||  || |||  `* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderThe Natural Philosopher
  ||  || |||   `- Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderD
  ||  || ||`* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderCharlie Gibbs
  ||  || || +* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderBorax Man
  ||  || || |`- Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderThe Natural Philosopher
  ||  || || `* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderThe Natural Philosopher
  ||  || ||  `* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderBorax Man
  ||  || ||   `- Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderThe Natural Philosopher
  ||  || |`- Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderD
  ||  || `* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderCharlie Gibbs
  ||  ||  +* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderComputer Nerd Kev
  ||  ||  |`* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderD
  ||  ||  | `* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderComputer Nerd Kev
  ||  ||  |  `* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderThe Natural Philosopher
  ||  ||  |   +- Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderCharlie Gibbs
  ||  ||  |   +* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderrbowman
  ||  ||  |   |+* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdicationJohn Dallman
  ||  ||  |   ||+* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdicationD
  ||  ||  |   |||`* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forcesJohn Dallman
  ||  ||  |   ||| `- Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forcesD
  ||  ||  |   ||`* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdicationThe Natural Philosopher
  ||  ||  |   || `- Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdicationD
  ||  ||  |   |`- Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderRichard Kettlewell
  ||  ||  |   +* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderD
  ||  ||  |   |`- Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderThe Natural Philosopher
  ||  ||  |   `* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderAndreas Eder
  ||  ||  |    `- Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderThe Natural Philosopher
  ||  ||  +* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderThe Natural Philosopher
  ||  ||  |`- Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderCharlie Gibbs
  ||  ||  `- Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderD
  ||  |`* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderBorax Man
  ||  | +- Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderThe Natural Philosopher
  ||  | `* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderD
  ||  |  `* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderBorax Man
  ||  |   `* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderD
  ||  |    `* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderBorax Man
  ||  |     `- Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderD
  ||  +* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderBorax Man
  ||  |`- Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderThe Natural Philosopher
  ||  `* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdicationJack Strangio
  ||   `- Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdicationThe Natural Philosopher
  |`* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderD
  | `* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderBorax Man
  |  `* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderD
  |   `* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderBorax Man
  |    `* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderD
  |     `* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderBorax Man
  |      `* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderThe Natural Philosopher
  |       +* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderCharlie Gibbs
  |       |`- Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderLew Pitcher
  |       `- Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderD
  `* Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderJoel
   `- Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founderBobbie Sellers

Pages:123
Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder
From: Borax Man
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2024 03:19 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: rotflol2@hotmail.com (Borax Man)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces
abdication of founder
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2024 03:19:05 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On 2024-07-05, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 05/07/2024 18:15, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> On 05/07/2024 11:29, D wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I see this quite often in my line of work, this condescension towards
>>>>>> the uneducated, that people only vote a particular way because of
>>>>>> ignorance of fear.  Worse, is that this mentality is now promoted and
>>>>>> coddled, workplaces now champion themselves as promoters of a "social
>>>>>> good", which gives those who work there an even bigger head.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only people who vote for delusion are the champagne socialists
>>>>> with their Art degrees and their moral 'issues'
>>>>
>>>> This is the truth! Most extreme tech-socialists I've met live in houses,
>>>> have at least 2 cars, and are generally very well off. Often they do
>>>> have big public sector customers who help them fund their life styles.
>>>>
>>>> It is also completely impossible to discuss why their politics is
>>>> irrational and damaging to society at large, because they are such huge
>>>> winners of the current system.
>>>>
>>>> However... and here is where it gets interesting!
>>>>
>>>> I know one socialist from a working class background, and he is the only
>>>> socialist I know who it is actually possible to discuss politics with!
>>>> Needless to say, we've ended up in the agree to disagree box quite
>>>> often, but from time to time we actually do agree on something.
>>>
>>> A late friend was a rampant sort of lower middle class Scottish raving
>>> socialist of the red union sort. He became a local councillor, and
>>> said that 'the only people who ever got things done were the Tory
>>> squirearchy.
>>>
>>> And yet he was overjoyed when Blair got in.
>>>
>>> I finally realised that what appealed was the ideology. The fact that
>>> Labour never has and never will solve a single social problem it
>>> identifies as 'crucial' meant nothing to him
>>> It was the thought, that counted.
>>>
>>> Virtue signalling, not practical politics.
>>>
>>> Socialists are the ultimate cat-bellers.  Full of solutions that
>>> cannot be implemented or won't work if they are.
>>>
>>> And sadly that became the game of the Tories too, which is why they
>>> have been given the finger. All mouth and no trousers.
>>
>> This is true. Socialism has been refuted historically (it has never
>> worked), logically (it is self-contradictory)  and scientifically (it
>> has been proven by economists not to work). Yet, the masses insist on
>> believing it.
>>
>> The reason is that it is a religion where the leaders promise heaven on
>> earth, here and now, and workers who don't like their lives, hope that
>> this time it will be different, which of course it never is.
>>
>> But who knows? Maybe humanity will learn one day?
> Socialism is essentially paternalistic slavery. Everyone works for the
> gummint, and the gummint tells them what to think do and say and 'sees
> them right'.
> Except somehow it never does...
>

If you want people to support Capitalism, they must have Capital. Many
people have little to no Capital... soo...

I can't blame young people for turning to Socialism. They'll never own
a house, never have any wealth, why should they care?

By the way, I struggle to see our system working, it is failing
miserably too.

Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder
From: Borax Man
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2024 03:42 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: rotflol2@hotmail.com (Borax Man)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces
abdication of founder
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2024 03:42:17 -0000 (UTC)
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On 2024-07-05, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
> This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
> while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
>
> --8323328-737375878-1720175198=:17764
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>
>
> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, Borax Man wrote:
>
>> On 2024-07-04, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 4 Jul 2024, Borax Man wrote:
>>>
>>>> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.misc.]
>>>> On 2024-07-04, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 3 Jul 2024, RabidPedagog wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2024-07-03 6:05 p.m., SugarBug wrote:
>>>>>>> NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors,
>>>>>>> forces abdication of founder
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40870314
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I found a youtube version of this article being read by a gray-bearded
>>>>>>> tech nerd with a Hawaiian shirt: https://youtu.be/KsDYul3J3Dc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe I should pop a pineapple pizza in the oven and watch the drama.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Darn, I thought I was the first to post this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are there any non-political distributions to switch to? Since I'm a free
>>>>> speech extremist I'm against all projects that ban conservative, nazis and
>>>>> communists who contribute.
>>>>
>>>> Most people in "tech" seem to be insufferable progressives.
>>>> Unfortunately people now seem to think that everything they touch, and
>>>> everything they get involved in, needs to be "activist". What
>>>> distribution are you using at the moment?
>>>
>>> Sigh, yes this is true. But, at least I am benefiting from this. My
>>> company has a strict "no woke" policy, and due to that, I get highly
>>> skilled people to work for me as consultants who would throw up if they
>>> had to work for big IT with their woke ideology! =)
>>>
>>> I use opensuse at the moment, but based on what I've read they've gone
>>> woke. So next time I reinstall it is probably time to change.
>>>
>>> Based on very shallow research it looks as if perhaps Alpine linux and
>>> Freebsd might be two communities who don't explicitly reject
>>> conservatives.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm using Debian, and I haven't seen anything overtly political, but
>>>> then, I haven't looked into it that deep.
>>>
>>> Ah, maybe that could be another haven perhaps!
>>
>> Double check FreeBSD. I thought they signed up to the woke "Contributor
>> Covenant" if I recall correctly. That CoC is an explicitely political
>> and divisive CoC which is specifically designed, as stated by its very
>> own creator, to end "meritocracy". People that don't know better let
>> these wolves in sheeps clothing into their organisation and poison it.
>
> Thank you for the warning! Let me have a look...
>
> This is what they have:
>
> be friendly and patient,
> be welcoming,
> be considerate,
> be respectful,
> be careful in the words that you choose and be kind to others,
> when we disagree, try to understand why.
>
> I see nothing wrong with that... continued...
>
> Be careful in the words that you choose and be kind to others. Do not
> insult or put down other participants. Harassment and other exclusionary
> behavior aren¢t acceptable. This includes, but is not limited to:
>
> Violent threats or language directed against another person.
> Discriminatory jokes and language.
> Posting sexually explicit or violent material.
> Posting (or threatening to post) other people¢s personally identifying
> information ("doxing").
> Personal insults, especially those using racist or sexist terms.
> Unwelcome sexual attention.
> Advocating for, or encouraging, any of the above behavior.
>
> I can live with the above, _however_, the proof of the pudding is in the
> eating. If conservatives and libertarians have beenkicked out of the
> project, while homos and trans people stay after rubbing peoples faces in
> their weirdness, then it is apparent that the above is only directed
> against some isms and not others.
>
> So I've seen worse than Freebsd, but it does have a slight bias against
> pro-trans people at the expense of conservative although it is not that
> pronouced I'd say.
>
> In terms of other BSDs I think the most hardcore tech-focused as in "shut
> up and code" might be OpenBSD. I doubt they've had many trans-battles
> there due to their benevolent dictator for life setup.
>
> Too bad they have a crappy filesystems, otherwise Openbsd could be a nice
> project to join as well.

The problem is that these are the thin edge of the wedge. Activists
insert these, so they can militantly enforce them. The FreeBSD one
isn't too far from the Covenant Code.

Take for instance

> In addition, violations of this code outside these spaces may, in rare cases, affect a person’s ability to participate within them, when the conduct amounts to an egregious violation of this code.

This means that something you say, on your own terms, on your own
platform, can get you kicked off. They say "rare", but we've seen this
before, where someone gets hammered because they support a value or
position which is seen to not be welcoming to all the people in the "Be
Welcoming" section. Did you say you were for border control on Twitter
using your own personal handle? That is not welcoming to those of every
"immigration status".

These codes may be harmless, amongst reasonable people, but get an SJW
in the organisation, and they become weaponized.

The Code should ideally, just tell you what gets you kicked out, a
simple list of rules of what is a definite no-go, rather than a vague
call for good behaviour. Why bring religion, sexual orientation,
immigration status, etc, EXPLICITELY into it? Also, the fact they use
"immigration status" is telling, that is clearly a far-left position.
Some people don't accept illegal immigration, or consider homosexuality
moral, or approve of certain religions, etc, that is their right. Just
don't allow these subjects to be discussed. Instead, you're supposed to
assume a "welcoming" position, which presumes participants have adopted
a specific, lets say, progressive Silicon Valley set of morals.

People should have the right to think freely, and express themselves. I
see no issue with a code that says "don't talk
politics/religion/sexuality in this technical forum", but increasingly
we are seeing organisations have conduct codes that *presume* certain
values and require everyone to adhere to those values.

Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication
From: Jack Strangio
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: North Star Horizon Builders Club
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2024 05:30 UTC
References: 1
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: jackstrangio@yahoo.com (Jack Strangio)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication
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The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
> To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.
Who's going to roast Turkeys in the middle of Summer?

Better to write

To ban Christmas, simply give prawns, oysters, and crayfish the vote.

<grin>

Jack
--
I have read so much about the dangers of tobacco, alcohol
and gambling, I made up my mind to stop reading.

Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder
From: The Natural Philosop
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: A little, after lunch
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2024 10:29 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication
of founder
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2024 11:29:25 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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On 05/07/2024 21:28, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> Unfortunately, this is true of demagogues on both the left and the right.
> Take a look at the United States today, for instance. In fact, if you
> replace "socialism" with "unbridled capitalism", you've pretty much
> covered the whole spectrum (aside from us radical moderates sitting
> in the middle, watching the chaos unfold on both sides).
>
Charlie, my take on this is that unbridled capitalism has teamed up with
government to completely control the market and mandate by legislation
the use of its products, rather than bother to compete with other
companies on quality.

The end result might as well be communism, except the big corporations
replace the Party as the controllers of industry.

In this context a raft of 'social' and 'environmental' legislation that
only large corporates can afford to implement, drives out all the mom
and pop businesses.
I've seen this absolutely happen in the UK and Germany at least.
Manufacturers collude with the EU or the UK government to bring in
legislation for 'new' 'green' products *they* have just developed - but
no one else has.

'social' legislation like oppressive health and safety is impossible for
a one or two man business to implement. Minimum wages mean the jobs move
overseas.

Siemens, purveyors of windmills, donated billions to UK political
parties. And for all I know, politicians.

The anti capitalist groups are *funded* by those corporate capitalist
interests to attack their competitors. Viz Nuclear power.

They *are* the people they are warning you about.

>> But who knows? Maybe humanity will learn one day?
> I'm not holding my breath.

Humanity only needs to be not so completely idiotic that a few men and
women manage to produce the next generation.

The problem today is that in a technological society they don't have to
try very hard, which leaves enormous potential to fill their heads with
carefully crafted bullshit and sell them products that never knew they
didn't want and certainly do not need.

And thereby transfer even more personal wealth into the hands of big
corporations.

--
The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all
private property.

Karl Marx

Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder
From: D
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2024 10:31 UTC
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From: nospam@example.net (D)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication
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On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 05/07/2024 18:15, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> On 05/07/2024 11:29, D wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I see this quite often in my line of work, this condescension towards
>>>>>> the uneducated, that people only vote a particular way because of
>>>>>> ignorance of fear.  Worse, is that this mentality is now promoted and
>>>>>> coddled, workplaces now champion themselves as promoters of a "social
>>>>>> good", which gives those who work there an even bigger head.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only people who vote for delusion are the champagne socialists with
>>>>> their Art degrees and their moral 'issues'
>>>>
>>>> This is the truth! Most extreme tech-socialists I've met live in houses,
>>>> have at least 2 cars, and are generally very well off. Often they do
>>>> have big public sector customers who help them fund their life styles.
>>>>
>>>> It is also completely impossible to discuss why their politics is
>>>> irrational and damaging to society at large, because they are such huge
>>>> winners of the current system.
>>>>
>>>> However... and here is where it gets interesting!
>>>>
>>>> I know one socialist from a working class background, and he is the only
>>>> socialist I know who it is actually possible to discuss politics with!
>>>> Needless to say, we've ended up in the agree to disagree box quite
>>>> often, but from time to time we actually do agree on something.
>>>
>>> A late friend was a rampant sort of lower middle class Scottish raving
>>> socialist of the red union sort. He became a local councillor, and said
>>> that 'the only people who ever got things done were the Tory squirearchy.
>>>
>>> And yet he was overjoyed when Blair got in.
>>>
>>> I finally realised that what appealed was the ideology. The fact that
>>> Labour never has and never will solve a single social problem it
>>> identifies as 'crucial' meant nothing to him
>>> It was the thought, that counted.
>>>
>>> Virtue signalling, not practical politics.
>>>
>>> Socialists are the ultimate cat-bellers.  Full of solutions that cannot be
>>> implemented or won't work if they are.
>>>
>>> And sadly that became the game of the Tories too, which is why they have
>>> been given the finger. All mouth and no trousers.
>>
>> This is true. Socialism has been refuted historically (it has never
>> worked), logically (it is self-contradictory)  and scientifically (it has
>> been proven by economists not to work). Yet, the masses insist on believing
>> it.
>>
>> The reason is that it is a religion where the leaders promise heaven on
>> earth, here and now, and workers who don't like their lives, hope that this
>> time it will be different, which of course it never is.
>>
>> But who knows? Maybe humanity will learn one day?
> Socialism is essentially paternalistic slavery. Everyone works for the
> gummint, and the gummint tells them what to think do and say and 'sees them
> right'.
> Except somehow it never does...

Amen!

Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication
From: The Natural Philosop
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: A little, after lunch
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2024 10:32 UTC
References: 1 2
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2024 11:32:50 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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On 06/07/2024 06:30, Jack Strangio wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
>> To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.
>
> Who's going to roast Turkeys in the middle of Summer?
>
We did in Johannesburg. 40°C temperatures, roast turkey and christmas
pudding.

Followed by racing clockwork bath toys across the swimming pool.
Heady days.

--
"If you don’t read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder
From: D
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2024 10:33 UTC
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From: nospam@example.net (D)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication
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On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> On 2024-07-05, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> Socialists are the ultimate cat-bellers. Full of solutions that cannot be
>>> implemented or won't work if they are.
>>>
>>> And sadly that became the game of the Tories too, which is why they have been
>>> given the finger. All mouth and no trousers.
>>
>> This is true. Socialism has been refuted historically (it has never
>> worked), logically (it is self-contradictory) and scientifically (it has
>> been proven by economists not to work). Yet, the masses insist on believing it.
>>
>> The reason is that it is a religion where the leaders promise heaven on
>> earth, here and now, and workers who don't like their lives, hope that
>> this time it will be different, which of course it never is.
>
> Unfortunately, this is true of demagogues on both the left and the right.
> Take a look at the United States today, for instance. In fact, if you
> replace "socialism" with "unbridled capitalism", you've pretty much
> covered the whole spectrum (aside from us radical moderates sitting
> in the middle, watching the chaos unfold on both sides).

I've tried socialism light, my parents in law have tried the real deal
socialism, and thank you very much, we're all in agreement that we prefer
unbridled capitalism every day of the week.

Only people who never grew up under authoritarian socialism, living in
cuddly little western liberal socialist light democracies, could ever
dream of wanting to live under socialism.

Take it from the people who tried, capitalism is vastly preferable.

>> But who knows? Maybe humanity will learn one day?
>
> I'm not holding my breath.

This is the truth! ;)

Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder
From: D
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2024 10:34 UTC
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From: nospam@example.net (D)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication
of founder
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On Sat, 6 Jul 2024, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2024-07-05, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> Socialists are the ultimate cat-bellers. Full of solutions that cannot be
>>>> implemented or won't work if they are.
>>>>
>>>> And sadly that became the game of the Tories too, which is why they have been
>>>> given the finger. All mouth and no trousers.
>>>
>>> This is true. Socialism has been refuted historically (it has never
>>> worked), logically (it is self-contradictory) and scientifically (it has
>>> been proven by economists not to work). Yet, the masses insist on believing it.
>>>
>>> The reason is that it is a religion where the leaders promise heaven on
>>> earth, here and now, and workers who don't like their lives, hope that
>>> this time it will be different, which of course it never is.
>>
>> Unfortunately, this is true of demagogues on both the left and the right.
>> Take a look at the United States today, for instance. In fact, if you
>> replace "socialism" with "unbridled capitalism", you've pretty much
>> covered the whole spectrum (aside from us radical moderates sitting
>> in the middle, watching the chaos unfold on both sides).
>
> It's an inevitability of politics since people are generally too
> willing to believe in easy utopian promises. When you look at minor
> policical parties it's even worse, because they never get enough
> power to implement their misconceived schemes and therefore grow
> their own imaginary world where "because we'll solve a with b, we
> can fix c with d...".
>
> The major parties love to inflate the potential of their schemes
> as well, but eventually they actually achieve power and frequently
> fail to implement them or find they're ineffective, so their
> policies get flushed out and start again at the next
> election/revolution. To try and get closer to topic, imagine it as
> a stack in a computer.
>
> Then if the majors make a particular habit of filling their stack
> with rubbish between each flush, a radical minor party might get
> elected and unleash their huge full stack of ideas. Then that soon
> gets flushed out in a stream of failure and infeasibility, so the
> new party is forced to realign itself along some other course while
> still trying to hold on to the support it won for its original
> vision. They often turn to frantic nationalism at that point.

Now for the next question... how would you fix this?

Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder
From: D
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2024 10:39 UTC
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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication
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On Sat, 6 Jul 2024, Borax Man wrote:

> On 2024-07-05, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, Borax Man wrote:
>>
> [*snip*]
>>> On 2024-07-05, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thats probably what irks me most of all, that we pay for this. It's
>>> not the people who are grinding the most pushing these ideas. I could
>>> excuse Linux Torvalds wanting to weigh in on the Code of Conduct for the
>>> Linux Kernel, but its people who don't contribute much. Like Coraline
>>> Ada Ehmke, who create the Contributor Covenant, throwing their weight
>>> around, but not creating anything except a bloated github profile of
>>> lots of tiny Ruby spots of code. The Ladybird browser noted the same
>>> thing, their objection to the Woke activism was the person wanting to
>>> change gendered language had made no other real contribution. Think of
>>> those who go around moralising as DEI consultants or activist, what have
>>> they actually produced of real value?
>>>
>>> These "woke" or "marxist" ideas are luxury beliefs, and they are our
>>> priestly class. These beliefs are held by those who work cushy jobs,
>>> usually, or have nothing to lose anyway. Their JOB could just be to
>>> pontificate or moralise, like a DEI consultant or something, but again,
>>> this is just done on the backs of those who actually work.
>>>
>>
>> Oh yes... I could keep you throwing up all evening with stories from the
>> mgmt meetings at a startup where I was consulting. The amount of pure
>> excrement woke bullshit I had to wade through, parry, oppose, threaten and
>> argue, to stop was enormous.
>>
>> In the end, since it was a remote gig, it was not possible to fight, since
>> most of the other were on site and it's difficult to play politics when
>> you're the only one remote and the rest are on site.
>>
>> But to my great satisfaction, once they decided to push through an "agile"
>> initiative, the top 20 percent of the company left and then they
>> terminated the most woke people since they couldn't carry their cost any
>> longer once the revenues dropped due to the woke b.s.! =D
>
> I've had to deal with a lot of it, trust me. Unfortunately there is a
> class of people who are becoming more and more dominant, who are taking
> leadership positions within companies, who see the company as a vehicle
> for their own vanity. They focus more and more on using the company,
> and its resources to signal their own virtue than to produce. More and
> more focus on things that have nothing to do with the core business, and
> things where it is debatable whether any employee get any tangible
> benefit.
>
> In Australia, there was a recent referendum about whether to include a
> "voice to parliament" for Aboriginals and a preamble in the constitution
> recognising them as the first peoples. I was rather ambivalent about
> it, but you saw companies spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to
> campaing for a "YES" vote. Why is an airline spending money on this?
> How does this benefit shareholders, employees or customers? No, its so
> the CEO and execs can crow to others about their social work.
>
> Anyway, to bring this back slightly on topic, I guess the point is we
> need to not tolerate people using projects, companies, and steering them
> towards activism for their own purposes. If you want to be an activist
> for LGBT rights or whatever, do so, but we shouldn't sit by why they use
> *other peoples hard work* as a vehicle for thier own activism. Do that
> on your own time, with your own resources. I think this is where we as
> users, developers, employees, stakeholders need to push back and bit and
> say "take it elsewhere, if you want a project, company to do activist
> work, make your own explicitely for that purpose". Take AntiX, its
> explicitely Anti-Fascist, I have no idea how a distro is "anti-fascist",
> it seems ridiculous, but at least its their OWN project, and from what I
> know, it doesn't intrude on other peoples works, and apparently,
> according to a friend, actually runs great.
>

I think you are right. I also hope that the culture of silence on the
right is coming to an end. Historically, as soon as someone on the right
spoke up, they were labeled as racist (no matter the topic) and were
cancelled. But the left has become so extreme, and the labling and
cancelling so prevalent, that I imagine that many on the right just don't
care any longer about that, and then it becomes easier to speak up.

I've been running a meetup for 10 years, and on a few occasions I've
encountered gender activists and a corona-hysteric. On some occasions I
just ignore them, and they never come back, since they never get any
speaking time, and on some occasions I've told them to go f*ck themselves
and that the meetup is voluntary so they can go somewhere else if they
don't like it.

All times, this has been very successful since the people are not used to
someone telling them to go f*ck themselves, they disappear quite quickly.

I guess it also helps that the topic is tech-focused and mostly
non-fashionable, so I imagine the gender-mob is drawn to more fashionable
things such as kubernetes, devops and agile forums. ;)

Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder
From: D
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2024 10:42 UTC
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From: nospam@example.net (D)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication
of founder
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2024 12:42:04 +0200
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On Sat, 6 Jul 2024, Borax Man wrote:

> On 2024-07-05, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 05/07/2024 18:15, D wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 05/07/2024 11:29, D wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I see this quite often in my line of work, this condescension towards
>>>>>>> the uneducated, that people only vote a particular way because of
>>>>>>> ignorance of fear.  Worse, is that this mentality is now promoted and
>>>>>>> coddled, workplaces now champion themselves as promoters of a "social
>>>>>>> good", which gives those who work there an even bigger head.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only people who vote for delusion are the champagne socialists
>>>>>> with their Art degrees and their moral 'issues'
>>>>>
>>>>> This is the truth! Most extreme tech-socialists I've met live in houses,
>>>>> have at least 2 cars, and are generally very well off. Often they do
>>>>> have big public sector customers who help them fund their life styles.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is also completely impossible to discuss why their politics is
>>>>> irrational and damaging to society at large, because they are such huge
>>>>> winners of the current system.
>>>>>
>>>>> However... and here is where it gets interesting!
>>>>>
>>>>> I know one socialist from a working class background, and he is the only
>>>>> socialist I know who it is actually possible to discuss politics with!
>>>>> Needless to say, we've ended up in the agree to disagree box quite
>>>>> often, but from time to time we actually do agree on something.
>>>>
>>>> A late friend was a rampant sort of lower middle class Scottish raving
>>>> socialist of the red union sort. He became a local councillor, and
>>>> said that 'the only people who ever got things done were the Tory
>>>> squirearchy.
>>>>
>>>> And yet he was overjoyed when Blair got in.
>>>>
>>>> I finally realised that what appealed was the ideology. The fact that
>>>> Labour never has and never will solve a single social problem it
>>>> identifies as 'crucial' meant nothing to him
>>>> It was the thought, that counted.
>>>>
>>>> Virtue signalling, not practical politics.
>>>>
>>>> Socialists are the ultimate cat-bellers.  Full of solutions that
>>>> cannot be implemented or won't work if they are.
>>>>
>>>> And sadly that became the game of the Tories too, which is why they
>>>> have been given the finger. All mouth and no trousers.
>>>
>>> This is true. Socialism has been refuted historically (it has never
>>> worked), logically (it is self-contradictory)  and scientifically (it
>>> has been proven by economists not to work). Yet, the masses insist on
>>> believing it.
>>>
>>> The reason is that it is a religion where the leaders promise heaven on
>>> earth, here and now, and workers who don't like their lives, hope that
>>> this time it will be different, which of course it never is.
>>>
>>> But who knows? Maybe humanity will learn one day?
>> Socialism is essentially paternalistic slavery. Everyone works for the
>> gummint, and the gummint tells them what to think do and say and 'sees
>> them right'.
>> Except somehow it never does...
>>
>
> If you want people to support Capitalism, they must have Capital. Many
> people have little to no Capital... soo...
>
> I can't blame young people for turning to Socialism. They'll never own
> a house, never have any wealth, why should they care?
>
> By the way, I struggle to see our system working, it is failing
> miserably too.
>

The thing is... with capitalism and free markets, people will soon earn
capital. Hong Kong used to be a backwards island, they started with sweat
shops and unregulated capitalism, and finished by becoming the worlds
financial center with the highest salaries in the world (before china took
over). What made that possible was unregulated capitalism, since the
backwards island could then bootstrap itself to wealth within a few
generations.

More about that in Johan Norbergs in defense of global capitalism, and the
capitalist manifesto, if you are interested.

As for the young, they are sold lies, and since they are young and lack
life experience, it is of course a nicer lie that the government will give
them everything, without having to work for it, than manning up and go to
work.

Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder
From: D
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2024 10:50 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!i2pn.org!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nospam@example.net (D)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication
of founder
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2024 12:50:21 +0200
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On Sat, 6 Jul 2024, Borax Man wrote:

>> In terms of other BSDs I think the most hardcore tech-focused as in "shut
>> up and code" might be OpenBSD. I doubt they've had many trans-battles
>> there due to their benevolent dictator for life setup.
>>
>> Too bad they have a crappy filesystems, otherwise Openbsd could be a nice
>> project to join as well.
>
> The problem is that these are the thin edge of the wedge. Activists
> insert these, so they can militantly enforce them. The FreeBSD one
> isn't too far from the Covenant Code.
....
> People should have the right to think freely, and express themselves. I
> see no issue with a code that says "don't talk
> politics/religion/sexuality in this technical forum", but increasingly
> we are seeing organisations have conduct codes that *presume* certain
> values and require everyone to adhere to those values.

Yes, you make a good point. That's what I meant with my proof of the
pudding comment. As you say, looks fairly harmless on the surface, but
you can detect a leftist undercurrent and as you say, it can explode in
your face.

As for OpenBSD I cannot find anything except perhaps this:

Does OpenBSD has a Code Of Conduct?

No and there is no known plan of having one.

This is a topic upsetting OpenBSD people, just don’t ask about it and send patches.

https://dataswamp.org/~solene/2018-03-16-openbsd-unofficial-faq.html

Looks very promising! =)

And also something here:

https://www.mail-archive.com/misc@openbsd.org/msg167105.html

I believe OpenBSD's code of conduct can be summed up as "if you are the
type of person who needs a code of conduct to teach to you how to human
then you are not welcome here".

At least I hope so.

Matthew

I always thought it could be summed up as "Don't piss off Theo". ;-)

.... :)

He's setting a standard. So I don't have to worry about talking freely
about what I think here. And that's just one reason why I try to
migrate my machines to OpenBSD ...

And one of the first things I do when looking at software, and whether
it's useful for my needs or not: Are those who write it adults or are
they whinies with problems regarding understandable speech? I'm
trying to keep the latter mostly at safe distances from me, and I
tend to avoid their code getting installed onto my machines ...

So that's another reason I'm glad Theo de Raadt is setting a certain
standard here ...

So yes, for sure: "Don't piss off Theo". And no smiley.

Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder
From: Charlie Gibbs
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2024 17:57 UTC
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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
From: cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces
abdication of founder
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On 2024-07-06, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 05/07/2024 21:28, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately, this is true of demagogues on both the left and the right.
>> Take a look at the United States today, for instance. In fact, if you
>> replace "socialism" with "unbridled capitalism", you've pretty much
>> covered the whole spectrum (aside from us radical moderates sitting
>> in the middle, watching the chaos unfold on both sides).
>
> Charlie, my take on this is that unbridled capitalism has teamed up with
> government to completely control the market and mandate by legislation
> the use of its products, rather than bother to compete with other
> companies on quality.
>
> The end result might as well be communism, except the big corporations
> replace the Party as the controllers of industry.

I occasionally hear the term "corporatism". IMHO this is simply
a contraction of "corporate fascism".

> In this context a raft of 'social' and 'environmental' legislation that
> only large corporates can afford to implement, drives out all the mom
> and pop businesses.
> I've seen this absolutely happen in the UK and Germany at least.
> Manufacturers collude with the EU or the UK government to bring in
> legislation for 'new' 'green' products *they* have just developed - but
> no one else has.

Complexity is a weapon. Many large corporations (and politicians, for
that matter) make things as complicated as possible, so that getting
anything done requires facilities that only they have (and control).

> The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all
> private property.
>
> Karl Marx

I find it ironic that in this era of Software-as-a-Service (SaaS)
and subscription-based everything, our supposedly far-right corporate
masters are working hard to fulfil Karl Marx's fondest dream.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | We'll go down in history as
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | the first society that wouldn't
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | save itself because it wasn't
/ \ if you read it the right way. | cost-effective. -- Kurt Vonnegut

Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder
From: Charlie Gibbs
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2024 17:57 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx18.iad.POSTED!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
From: cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces
abdication of founder
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On 2024-07-06, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote:

> If you want people to support Capitalism, they must have Capital. Many
> people have little to no Capital... soo...
>
> I can't blame young people for turning to Socialism. They'll never own
> a house, never have any wealth, why should they care?

Any 20-year-old who isn't a liberal has no heart.
Any 40-year-old who isn't a conservative has no brain.
-- not Winston Churchill
Any 60-year-old who isn't a moderate has no soul.
-- me

> By the way, I struggle to see our system working, it is failing
> miserably too.

Not for those at the top...

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | We'll go down in history as
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | the first society that wouldn't
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | save itself because it wasn't
/ \ if you read it the right way. | cost-effective. -- Kurt Vonnegut

Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder
From: Computer Nerd Kev
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: Ausics - https://newsgroups.ausics.net
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2024 23:33 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
Message-ID: <6689d45f@news.ausics.net>
From: not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
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D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Jul 2024, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> Then if the majors make a particular habit of filling their stack
>> with rubbish between each flush, a radical minor party might get
>> elected and unleash their huge full stack of ideas. Then that soon
>> gets flushed out in a stream of failure and infeasibility, so the
>> new party is forced to realign itself along some other course while
>> still trying to hold on to the support it won for its original
>> vision. They often turn to frantic nationalism at that point.
>
> Now for the next question... how would you fix this?

No idea, and I'd be highly skeptical of anyone who thinks they do
have a solution to it.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder
From: Borax Man
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2024 00:48 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: rotflol2@hotmail.com (Borax Man)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces
abdication of founder
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2024 00:48:58 -0000 (UTC)
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On 2024-07-06, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2024-07-06, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If you want people to support Capitalism, they must have Capital. Many
>> people have little to no Capital... soo...
>>
>> I can't blame young people for turning to Socialism. They'll never own
>> a house, never have any wealth, why should they care?
>
> Any 20-year-old who isn't a liberal has no heart.
> Any 40-year-old who isn't a conservative has no brain.
> -- not Winston Churchill
> Any 60-year-old who isn't a moderate has no soul.
> -- me
>
>> By the way, I struggle to see our system working, it is failing
>> miserably too.
>
> Not for those at the top...
>

I'm Gen X, with children. My children are not going to have homes of
their own, the ways things are going. The system is failing. I'm not
going to waste my energy supporting "Capital", when "Capital" is
determined to sell out my nations future and my childrens future.

Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder
From: Borax Man
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2024 00:55 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: rotflol2@hotmail.com (Borax Man)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces
abdication of founder
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2024 00:55:02 -0000 (UTC)
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On 2024-07-06, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
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>
>
> On Sat, 6 Jul 2024, Borax Man wrote:
>
>> On 2024-07-05, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 05/07/2024 18:15, D wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 05/07/2024 11:29, D wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I see this quite often in my line of work, this condescension towards
>>>>>>>> the uneducated, that people only vote a particular way because of
>>>>>>>> ignorance of fear.  Worse, is that this mentality is now promoted and
>>>>>>>> coddled, workplaces now champion themselves as promoters of a "social
>>>>>>>> good", which gives those who work there an even bigger head.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The only people who vote for delusion are the champagne socialists
>>>>>>> with their Art degrees and their moral 'issues'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is the truth! Most extreme tech-socialists I've met live in houses,
>>>>>> have at least 2 cars, and are generally very well off. Often they do
>>>>>> have big public sector customers who help them fund their life styles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is also completely impossible to discuss why their politics is
>>>>>> irrational and damaging to society at large, because they are such huge
>>>>>> winners of the current system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However... and here is where it gets interesting!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know one socialist from a working class background, and he is the only
>>>>>> socialist I know who it is actually possible to discuss politics with!
>>>>>> Needless to say, we've ended up in the agree to disagree box quite
>>>>>> often, but from time to time we actually do agree on something.
>>>>>
>>>>> A late friend was a rampant sort of lower middle class Scottish raving
>>>>> socialist of the red union sort. He became a local councillor, and
>>>>> said that 'the only people who ever got things done were the Tory
>>>>> squirearchy.
>>>>>
>>>>> And yet he was overjoyed when Blair got in.
>>>>>
>>>>> I finally realised that what appealed was the ideology. The fact that
>>>>> Labour never has and never will solve a single social problem it
>>>>> identifies as 'crucial' meant nothing to him
>>>>> It was the thought, that counted.
>>>>>
>>>>> Virtue signalling, not practical politics.
>>>>>
>>>>> Socialists are the ultimate cat-bellers.  Full of solutions that
>>>>> cannot be implemented or won't work if they are.
>>>>>
>>>>> And sadly that became the game of the Tories too, which is why they
>>>>> have been given the finger. All mouth and no trousers.
>>>>
>>>> This is true. Socialism has been refuted historically (it has never
>>>> worked), logically (it is self-contradictory)  and scientifically (it
>>>> has been proven by economists not to work). Yet, the masses insist on
>>>> believing it.
>>>>
>>>> The reason is that it is a religion where the leaders promise heaven on
>>>> earth, here and now, and workers who don't like their lives, hope that
>>>> this time it will be different, which of course it never is.
>>>>
>>>> But who knows? Maybe humanity will learn one day?
>>> Socialism is essentially paternalistic slavery. Everyone works for the
>>> gummint, and the gummint tells them what to think do and say and 'sees
>>> them right'.
>>> Except somehow it never does...
>>>
>>
>> If you want people to support Capitalism, they must have Capital. Many
>> people have little to no Capital... soo...
>>
>> I can't blame young people for turning to Socialism. They'll never own
>> a house, never have any wealth, why should they care?
>>
>> By the way, I struggle to see our system working, it is failing
>> miserably too.
>>
>
> The thing is... with capitalism and free markets, people will soon earn
> capital. Hong Kong used to be a backwards island, they started with sweat
> shops and unregulated capitalism, and finished by becoming the worlds
> financial center with the highest salaries in the world (before china took
> over). What made that possible was unregulated capitalism, since the
> backwards island could then bootstrap itself to wealth within a few
> generations.
>
> More about that in Johan Norbergs in defense of global capitalism, and the
> capitalist manifesto, if you are interested.
>
> As for the young, they are sold lies, and since they are young and lack
> life experience, it is of course a nicer lie that the government will give
> them everything, without having to work for it, than manning up and go to
> work.
> --8323328-1362738420-1720262525=:17764--

Well, the thing is we HAVE Capitalism and Free Markets and Capital is
being accumulated by the few. Now if you are going to use that "this is
not true Free Markets", then sorry, then you sound like all the
Communists who say that Russia and China and North Korea are "not true
Communism". If your ideology can only ever work in an utterly pure
form, its faulty, because that pure form will never be realised in
practice.

I've spend enough time believing in, buying, reading these arguments,
they don't work, IN PRACTICE. There is something to be said by letting
entrepreneurs be entrepreneurs, and there is something to be said by
letting creative people be creative, yes, but the current system is
based on Capital, not creativity and inventiveness. You earn more money
monopolising houses than actually working.

I'm not buying these lies anymore. I have a "good job", that I worked
damn hard to achieve, a managerial position, yet am worse off, while I
watch rent-seekers get everything. I never took benefits, I did
everything right. Screw that.

Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder
From: Borax Man
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2024 00:57 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: rotflol2@hotmail.com (Borax Man)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces
abdication of founder
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2024 00:57:32 -0000 (UTC)
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On 2024-07-06, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, 6 Jul 2024, Borax Man wrote:
>
>> On 2024-07-05, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, Borax Man wrote:
>>>
>> [*snip*]
>>>> On 2024-07-05, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thats probably what irks me most of all, that we pay for this. It's
>>>> not the people who are grinding the most pushing these ideas. I could
>>>> excuse Linux Torvalds wanting to weigh in on the Code of Conduct for the
>>>> Linux Kernel, but its people who don't contribute much. Like Coraline
>>>> Ada Ehmke, who create the Contributor Covenant, throwing their weight
>>>> around, but not creating anything except a bloated github profile of
>>>> lots of tiny Ruby spots of code. The Ladybird browser noted the same
>>>> thing, their objection to the Woke activism was the person wanting to
>>>> change gendered language had made no other real contribution. Think of
>>>> those who go around moralising as DEI consultants or activist, what have
>>>> they actually produced of real value?
>>>>
>>>> These "woke" or "marxist" ideas are luxury beliefs, and they are our
>>>> priestly class. These beliefs are held by those who work cushy jobs,
>>>> usually, or have nothing to lose anyway. Their JOB could just be to
>>>> pontificate or moralise, like a DEI consultant or something, but again,
>>>> this is just done on the backs of those who actually work.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Oh yes... I could keep you throwing up all evening with stories from the
>>> mgmt meetings at a startup where I was consulting. The amount of pure
>>> excrement woke bullshit I had to wade through, parry, oppose, threaten and
>>> argue, to stop was enormous.
>>>
>>> In the end, since it was a remote gig, it was not possible to fight, since
>>> most of the other were on site and it's difficult to play politics when
>>> you're the only one remote and the rest are on site.
>>>
>>> But to my great satisfaction, once they decided to push through an "agile"
>>> initiative, the top 20 percent of the company left and then they
>>> terminated the most woke people since they couldn't carry their cost any
>>> longer once the revenues dropped due to the woke b.s.! =D
>>
>> I've had to deal with a lot of it, trust me. Unfortunately there is a
>> class of people who are becoming more and more dominant, who are taking
>> leadership positions within companies, who see the company as a vehicle
>> for their own vanity. They focus more and more on using the company,
>> and its resources to signal their own virtue than to produce. More and
>> more focus on things that have nothing to do with the core business, and
>> things where it is debatable whether any employee get any tangible
>> benefit.
>>
>> In Australia, there was a recent referendum about whether to include a
>> "voice to parliament" for Aboriginals and a preamble in the constitution
>> recognising them as the first peoples. I was rather ambivalent about
>> it, but you saw companies spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to
>> campaing for a "YES" vote. Why is an airline spending money on this?
>> How does this benefit shareholders, employees or customers? No, its so
>> the CEO and execs can crow to others about their social work.
>>
>> Anyway, to bring this back slightly on topic, I guess the point is we
>> need to not tolerate people using projects, companies, and steering them
>> towards activism for their own purposes. If you want to be an activist
>> for LGBT rights or whatever, do so, but we shouldn't sit by why they use
>> *other peoples hard work* as a vehicle for thier own activism. Do that
>> on your own time, with your own resources. I think this is where we as
>> users, developers, employees, stakeholders need to push back and bit and
>> say "take it elsewhere, if you want a project, company to do activist
>> work, make your own explicitely for that purpose". Take AntiX, its
>> explicitely Anti-Fascist, I have no idea how a distro is "anti-fascist",
>> it seems ridiculous, but at least its their OWN project, and from what I
>> know, it doesn't intrude on other peoples works, and apparently,
>> according to a friend, actually runs great.
>>
>
> I think you are right. I also hope that the culture of silence on the
> right is coming to an end. Historically, as soon as someone on the right
> spoke up, they were labeled as racist (no matter the topic) and were
> cancelled. But the left has become so extreme, and the labling and
> cancelling so prevalent, that I imagine that many on the right just don't
> care any longer about that, and then it becomes easier to speak up.
>
> I've been running a meetup for 10 years, and on a few occasions I've
> encountered gender activists and a corona-hysteric. On some occasions I
> just ignore them, and they never come back, since they never get any
> speaking time, and on some occasions I've told them to go f*ck themselves
> and that the meetup is voluntary so they can go somewhere else if they
> don't like it.
>
> All times, this has been very successful since the people are not used to
> someone telling them to go f*ck themselves, they disappear quite quickly.
>
> I guess it also helps that the topic is tech-focused and mostly
> non-fashionable, so I imagine the gender-mob is drawn to more fashionable
> things such as kubernetes, devops and agile forums. ;)

The trick is to not care. When I see someone who is accused of being
"racist" go full on defensive, arguing they have black friends, etc, I
just cringe inside. The labels DON'T MATTER. Ignore them. Don't
react, and don't believe any accusation. The words lose meaning when we
completely ignore them. The right didn't do this, which is why they
lost, they kept trying to make sure they were moral in the eyes of their
enemies.

Ignoring them, not caring one iota about their ravings is the correct,
working response, as you've seen yourself.

Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder
From: Borax Man
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2024 09:28 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: rotflol2@hotmail.com (Borax Man)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces
abdication of founder
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2024 09:28:35 -0000 (UTC)
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On 2024-07-06, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
> This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
> while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
>
> --8323328-1723170610-1720263024=:17764
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>
>
> On Sat, 6 Jul 2024, Borax Man wrote:
>
>>> In terms of other BSDs I think the most hardcore tech-focused as in "shut
>>> up and code" might be OpenBSD. I doubt they've had many trans-battles
>>> there due to their benevolent dictator for life setup.
>>>
>>> Too bad they have a crappy filesystems, otherwise Openbsd could be a nice
>>> project to join as well.
>>
>> The problem is that these are the thin edge of the wedge. Activists
>> insert these, so they can militantly enforce them. The FreeBSD one
>> isn't too far from the Covenant Code.
> ...
>> People should have the right to think freely, and express themselves. I
>> see no issue with a code that says "don't talk
>> politics/religion/sexuality in this technical forum", but increasingly
>> we are seeing organisations have conduct codes that *presume* certain
>> values and require everyone to adhere to those values.
>
> Yes, you make a good point. That's what I meant with my proof of the
> pudding comment. As you say, looks fairly harmless on the surface, but
> you can detect a leftist undercurrent and as you say, it can explode in
> your face.
>
> As for OpenBSD I cannot find anything except perhaps this:
>
> Does OpenBSD has a Code Of Conduct?
>
> No and there is no known plan of having one.
>
> This is a topic upsetting OpenBSD people, just don’t ask about it and send patches.
>
> https://dataswamp.org/~solene/2018-03-16-openbsd-unofficial-faq.html
>
> Looks very promising! =)
>
> And also something here:
>
> https://www.mail-archive.com/misc@openbsd.org/msg167105.html
>
> I believe OpenBSD's code of conduct can be summed up as "if you are the
> type of person who needs a code of conduct to teach to you how to human
> then you are not welcome here".
>
> At least I hope so.
>
> Matthew
>
>
> I always thought it could be summed up as "Don't piss off Theo". ;-)
>
>
> ... :)
>
> He's setting a standard. So I don't have to worry about talking freely
> about what I think here. And that's just one reason why I try to
> migrate my machines to OpenBSD ...
>
> And one of the first things I do when looking at software, and whether
> it's useful for my needs or not: Are those who write it adults or are
> they whinies with problems regarding understandable speech? I'm
> trying to keep the latter mostly at safe distances from me, and I
> tend to avoid their code getting installed onto my machines ...
>
> So that's another reason I'm glad Theo de Raadt is setting a certain
> standard here ...
>

Yes, thats the thing, these seem harmless, reasonable, nice. But they
introduce a very different paradigm, the change seems subtle but it
isn't. They are radically different to a code of conduct which just
says "keep religion out of our forums". In a free society, we must
accept we work with people who disagree with us, who have views which we
don't support, and who may not approve of our lifestyle.

Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder
From: The Natural Philosop
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: A little, after lunch
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2024 10:10 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication
of founder
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2024 11:10:29 +0100
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On 06/07/2024 18:57, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2024-07-06, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If you want people to support Capitalism, they must have Capital. Many
>> people have little to no Capital... soo...
>>
>> I can't blame young people for turning to Socialism. They'll never own
>> a house, never have any wealth, why should they care?
>
> Any 20-year-old who isn't a liberal has no heart.
> Any 40-year-old who isn't a conservative has no brain.
> -- not Winston Churchill
> Any 60-year-old who isn't a moderate has no soul.
> -- me
>

http://vps.templar.co.uk/Cartoons%20and%20Politics/dilemma.jpg

>> By the way, I struggle to see our system working, it is failing
>> miserably too.
>
> Not for those at the top...
>

Indeed.

The unintended result of high tech eliminating the need for human
labour, is that human labour is now worthless.

And so the likes of Putin find themselves with a garden full of human
weeds.
Putin' solution is to send them to war to let the Ukrainians kill them
In the West they become simply 'spare' a huge underclass supplied with
taxpayers money to recycle it back to the corporate purveyors of brain
candy.
Or absorbed into the state propaganda machine to spout pointless woke
garbage in the mass media

--
“Some people like to travel by train because it combines the slowness of
a car with the cramped public exposure of 
an airplane.”

Dennis Miller

Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder
From: The Natural Philosop
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: A little, after lunch
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2024 10:11 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication
of founder
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2024 11:11:51 +0100
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On 07/07/2024 01:48, Borax Man wrote:
> I'm Gen X, with children. My children are not going to have homes of
> their own, the ways things are going. The system is failing. I'm not
> going to waste my energy supporting "Capital", when "Capital" is
> determined to sell out my nations future and my childrens future.

I bought my first house when I was 43. My first new car when I was 50

You have no idea how lucky you were.

--
“The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to
fill the world with fools.”

Herbert Spencer

Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder
From: Borax Man
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2024 10:15 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: rotflol2@hotmail.com (Borax Man)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces
abdication of founder
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2024 10:15:00 -0000 (UTC)
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On 2024-07-07, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 06/07/2024 18:57, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2024-07-06, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If you want people to support Capitalism, they must have Capital. Many
>>> people have little to no Capital... soo...
>>>
>>> I can't blame young people for turning to Socialism. They'll never own
>>> a house, never have any wealth, why should they care?
>>
>> Any 20-year-old who isn't a liberal has no heart.
>> Any 40-year-old who isn't a conservative has no brain.
>> -- not Winston Churchill
>> Any 60-year-old who isn't a moderate has no soul.
>> -- me
>>
>
> http://vps.templar.co.uk/Cartoons%20and%20Politics/dilemma.jpg
>
>>> By the way, I struggle to see our system working, it is failing
>>> miserably too.
>>
>> Not for those at the top...
>>
>
> Indeed.
>
> The unintended result of high tech eliminating the need for human
> labour, is that human labour is now worthless.
>
> And so the likes of Putin find themselves with a garden full of human
> weeds.
> Putin' solution is to send them to war to let the Ukrainians kill them
> In the West they become simply 'spare' a huge underclass supplied with
> taxpayers money to recycle it back to the corporate purveyors of brain
> candy.
> Or absorbed into the state propaganda machine to spout pointless woke
> garbage in the mass media
>
>

The fact that humans become considere to be "worthless" shows the system
was utterly inhumane and corrupt to begin with. That is alone grounds
enough to warrant us overturning it.

Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder
From: The Natural Philosop
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: A little, after lunch
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2024 10:18 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication
of founder
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2024 11:18:00 +0100
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On 07/07/2024 00:33, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 6 Jul 2024, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>> Then if the majors make a particular habit of filling their stack
>>> with rubbish between each flush, a radical minor party might get
>>> elected and unleash their huge full stack of ideas. Then that soon
>>> gets flushed out in a stream of failure and infeasibility, so the
>>> new party is forced to realign itself along some other course while
>>> still trying to hold on to the support it won for its original
>>> vision. They often turn to frantic nationalism at that point.
>>
>> Now for the next question... how would you fix this?
>
> No idea, and I'd be highly skeptical of anyone who thinks they do
> have a solution to it.
>
If it were that easy we would have done it by now.

UK prioritises stability over representation. EU nations are more
representative, but volatile.

Or are they?

Germany's disastrous state of its energy infrastructure now is the
direct result of Merkel going into coalition with a Green minority
party. Plant windmills and kill off nuclear to placate the Greens, but
import Russian gas and East German lignite to do the heavy lifting.

The UKs election is a classic example of 'we want these fuckers out, and
we don't actually care who gets in: They can't be any worse'

Of course, they will be...

So we will have to kick *this* lot out next time

--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder
From: The Natural Philosop
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: A little, after lunch
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2024 10:19 UTC
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Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication
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On 07/07/2024 01:55, Borax Man wrote:
> I'm not buying these lies anymore. I have a "good job", that I worked
> damn hard to achieve, a managerial position, yet am worse off, while I
> watch rent-seekers get everything. I never took benefits, I did
> everything right. Screw that.

I was like that till I ended up running my own businesses.

There is only one person worth working hard for, and that is yourself

--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder
From: The Natural Philosop
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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication
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On 07/07/2024 10:28, Borax Man wrote:
> Yes, thats the thing, these seem harmless, reasonable, nice. But they
> introduce a very different paradigm, the change seems subtle but it
> isn't.

You have reached the core feature of the Left/Marxist/woke modus operandi.

It isn't about winning the argument, or coming up with solutions to
problems,. it is about *changing the agenda* so that instead of talking
about how to have clean water by investing in sewage treatment we are
all talking about whether 'women with penises' are being 'oppressed by
society'.

And the terrifying thing is that people actually take this seriously.
Because a succession of left wing movements have placed people in power
whose mandate is not a functional secure society with resilient
infrastructure, but a theocracy based on the Marxist metaphysics of
'soshul justiss' 'sustainability' 'equality' etc etc.

Bollocks to equality.

I hold it as self evidently true that all men are *not* created equal,
and anyone who thinks they are or says they are is a either a moron or
a charlatan, and if they were it would destroy civilization, as we would
all be telephone sanitzers. And no one would be left tor write the next
generation of buggy secure over complex GUIs...

The reason for equality *under the law* is not because its morally just,
but because its simpler and it works.

We don't have to delve into moral quagmire of why someone raped or
murdered. They did, and they thereby destabilised society, so they need
to be removed from it.

Its that simple

--
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

Jonathan Swift.

Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder
From: D
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Subject: Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication
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On Sun, 7 Jul 2024, Borax Man wrote:

>> The thing is... with capitalism and free markets, people will soon earn
>> capital. Hong Kong used to be a backwards island, they started with sweat
>> shops and unregulated capitalism, and finished by becoming the worlds
>> financial center with the highest salaries in the world (before china took
>> over). What made that possible was unregulated capitalism, since the
>> backwards island could then bootstrap itself to wealth within a few
>> generations.
>>
>> More about that in Johan Norbergs in defense of global capitalism, and the
>> capitalist manifesto, if you are interested.
>>
>> As for the young, they are sold lies, and since they are young and lack
>> life experience, it is of course a nicer lie that the government will give
>> them everything, without having to work for it, than manning up and go to
>> work.
>> --8323328-1362738420-1720262525=:17764--
>
>
> Well, the thing is we HAVE Capitalism and Free Markets and Capital is
> being accumulated by the few. Now if you are going to use that "this is
> not true Free Markets", then sorry, then you sound like all the
> Communists who say that Russia and China and North Korea are "not true
> Communism". If your ideology can only ever work in an utterly pure
> form, its faulty, because that pure form will never be realised in
> practice.

I will use the "this is not free markets". Just go to heritage
foundation and sort countries based on size of governments. In the west,
the governments are _huge_, the regulatory burden is _huge_, politicians
decide which companies will be big or not since governments are enormous
actors on the markets.

Actually, what you are complaining about is socialism with some markets
added on the side. That is why your children have the future ahead of
them that you describe.

Due to high taxes, they cannot save their way to becoming millionaires.
Companies use the government (either with willing or unwilling
politicians) to give themselves the ultimate edge. Politicians get rich
by doing that and getting board seats in return.

I'm sorry, but we have no free markets in the western world, and we are
seeing the results. If you think I claim "not true communism" then I do
not think it is profitable to continue this discussion, because your
definition of free markets and my definition are not even remotely
close, so we would just talk past each other.

> I've spend enough time believing in, buying, reading these arguments,
> they don't work, IN PRACTICE. There is something to be said by letting
> entrepreneurs be entrepreneurs, and there is something to be said by
> letting creative people be creative, yes, but the current system is
> based on Capital, not creativity and inventiveness. You earn more money
> monopolising houses than actually working.

No, the current system is based on government, and government control of
capital. When the government spending is 30% or 40% or 60% of the GDP,
you don't have a free market, you have the government deciding who the
millionaire will be, with some iron willed and smart entrepreneurs
playing the game in the free small pockets that remain.

> I'm not buying these lies anymore. I have a "good job", that I worked
> damn hard to achieve, a managerial position, yet am worse off, while I
> watch rent-seekers get everything. I never took benefits, I did
> everything right. Screw that.

The lie I do not buy is that the government will fix everything. I see
politicians becoming richer and richer, I see regulations becoming more,
I see more and more government contracts being awarded to corporates who
are in bed with the government.

As I said, this is not my definition of free markets, this is my
definition of early stage socialism. And since this, as per your
message, seems to be what you mean with free markets, we will just talk
past each other.

What I do find interesting though, is that we see a lot of the same
problems, but we land in dramatically different solutions.

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