NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors,
forces abdication of founder

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40870314

I found a youtube version of this article being read by a gray-bearded
tech nerd with a Hawaiian shirt: https://youtu.be/KsDYul3J3Dc

Maybe I should pop a pineapple pizza in the oven and watch the drama.

--
www.sybershock.com | sci.crypt | alt.sources.crypto | alt.lite.bulb

On 2024-07-03 6:05 p.m., SugarBug wrote:
> NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors,
> forces abdication of founder
>
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40870314
>
> I found a youtube version of this article being read by a gray-bearded
> tech nerd with a Hawaiian shirt: https://youtu.be/KsDYul3J3Dc
>
> Maybe I should pop a pineapple pizza in the oven and watch the drama.

Darn, I thought I was the first to post this.

--
@RabidPedagog

On Wed, 3 Jul 2024, RabidPedagog wrote:

> On 2024-07-03 6:05 p.m., SugarBug wrote:
>> NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors,
>> forces abdication of founder
>>
>> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40870314
>>
>> I found a youtube version of this article being read by a gray-bearded
>> tech nerd with a Hawaiian shirt: https://youtu.be/KsDYul3J3Dc
>>
>> Maybe I should pop a pineapple pizza in the oven and watch the drama.
>
> Darn, I thought I was the first to post this.

Are there any non-political distributions to switch to? Since I'm a free
speech extremist I'm against all projects that ban conservative, nazis and
communists who contribute.

On 04/07/2024 11:06, D wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 3 Jul 2024, RabidPedagog wrote:
>
>> On 2024-07-03 6:05 p.m., SugarBug wrote:
>>> NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors,
>>> forces abdication of founder
>>>
>>> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40870314
>>>
>>> I found a youtube version of this article being read by a gray-bearded
>>> tech nerd with a Hawaiian shirt: https://youtu.be/KsDYul3J3Dc
>>>
>>> Maybe I should pop a pineapple pizza in the oven and watch the drama.
>>
>> Darn, I thought I was the first to post this.
>
> Are there any non-political distributions to switch to? Since I'm a free
> speech extremist I'm against all projects that ban conservative, nazis
> and communists who contribute.

Oh its all fashion. All this in yer face LBGT trans crap has simply made
people dislike them, not for what they are, but for being boring,
obtrusive, attention seeking and
essentially using Marxist techniques to promote their pointless metaphysics.

Which by circular argument confirms their alleged feelings of 'being
oppressed'.

Its the same technique as Hamas, kill people and then scream 'victim'
when someone responds appropriately.

--
"Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and
higher education positively fortifies it."

- Stephen Vizinczey

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.misc.]
On 2024-07-04, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 3 Jul 2024, RabidPedagog wrote:
>
>> On 2024-07-03 6:05 p.m., SugarBug wrote:
>>> NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors,
>>> forces abdication of founder
>>>
>>> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40870314
>>>
>>> I found a youtube version of this article being read by a gray-bearded
>>> tech nerd with a Hawaiian shirt: https://youtu.be/KsDYul3J3Dc
>>>
>>> Maybe I should pop a pineapple pizza in the oven and watch the drama.
>>
>> Darn, I thought I was the first to post this.
>
> Are there any non-political distributions to switch to? Since I'm a free
> speech extremist I'm against all projects that ban conservative, nazis and
> communists who contribute.

Most people in "tech" seem to be insufferable progressives.
Unfortunately people now seem to think that everything they touch, and
everything they get involved in, needs to be "activist". What
distribution are you using at the moment?

I'm using Debian, and I haven't seen anything overtly political, but
then, I haven't looked into it that deep.

D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 3 Jul 2024, RabidPedagog wrote:
>> On 2024-07-03 6:05 p.m., SugarBug wrote:
>>
>>> NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors,
>>> forces abdication of founder
>>>
>>> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40870314
>>>
>>> I found a youtube version of this article being read by a gray-bearded
>>> tech nerd with a Hawaiian shirt: https://youtu.be/KsDYul3J3Dc
>>>
>>> Maybe I should pop a pineapple pizza in the oven and watch the drama.
>>
>> Darn, I thought I was the first to post this.
>
>Are there any non-political distributions to switch to? Since I'm a free
>speech extremist I'm against all projects that ban conservative, nazis and
>communists who contribute.

I get you, but I'm a left-winger and I eat Chick-fil-A and Waffle
House, I'm not gonna boycott them when they're so fuckin' good. I
just use what I like, and keep politics for voting.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 04/07/2024 11:41, Borax Man wrote:
> Most people in "tech" seem to be insufferable progressives.
> Unfortunately people now seem to think that everything they touch, and
> everything they get involved in, needs to be "activist".

The fact is that Marxism - and this is another example of it, even if
its protagonists dont realise it - is attractive to people who think
they are smarter than they actually are.
They are not super bright and cannot work things out for themselves from
first principles but they are absolutely capable of absorbing enormous
quantities of received wisdom, which they regurgitate using the
justification that Greater Minds have said it, therefore it must be
true. This is the "Argumentum Ad Auctoritatem" fallacy.

Because they have more 'facts' stuffed in their heads, they feel they
are actually better qualified to run things than plebs.

Unfortunately they are vulnerable to any kind of carefully crafted
bullshit that comes along, because having decreed that ordinary common
sense is what plebs have, and the Truth is what they have, they are
never minded to actually attempt to understand the reality of what they
believe in. And fearful of being the first to declare that the Emperor
has no clothes, they use their Bandar Logic (We all say it, so it must
be true) to follow the herd of the minor intelligentsia, and follow the
herd.

The problem with following the herd, is that all you see is arseholes.

Too much education for not very high quality brains leads to a belief in
all this woke shit.

--
"Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and
higher education positively fortifies it."

- Stephen Vizinczey

Hi Joel,
On 7/4/24 07:11, Joel wrote:
> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 3 Jul 2024, RabidPedagog wrote:
>>> On 2024-07-03 6:05 p.m., SugarBug wrote:
>>>
>>>> NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors,
>>>> forces abdication of founder
>>>>
>>>> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40870314
>>>>
>>>> I found a youtube version of this article being read by a gray-bearded
>>>> tech nerd with a Hawaiian shirt: https://youtu.be/KsDYul3J3Dc
>>>>
>>>> Maybe I should pop a pineapple pizza in the oven and watch the drama.
>>>
>>> Darn, I thought I was the first to post this.
>>
>> Are there any non-political distributions to switch to? Since I'm a free
>> speech extremist I'm against all projects that ban conservative, nazis and
>> communists who contribute.

PCLinuxOS bans all political speech from its User Forum.
Except for systemd talk though most of us are there because
we have a hate on for systemd. Perhaps undeserved.
As far as the story about Activists banning non-Trans respecting
individuals from projects, it may have happened but I doubt any
transgender activists were really involved. A lot of the transgender
parties I have known in my years were Technicians in one field or
another and a solely technical project would have attractive.

>
>
> I get you, but I'm a left-winger and I eat Chick-fil-A and Waffle
> House, I'm not gonna boycott them when they're so fuckin' good. I
> just use what I like, and keep politics for voting.
>
If I could eat wheat I might be interested if I could afford
resturant prices. I am going to slice open one of my nearly $3.00
each Gluten Free Sourdough sandwich buns to celebrate the 4th of july
and make myself a nice hamburger for a change from my usual fare.
Left-winger? Does that mean you are only interested in the Chicken's
Left wing. Kinky Culinary taste and expensive if you plan to have
a full ration of protein from the chicken's left wing.

But no I only jest. The Labor Movement brought us the 8 hour
day and better pay for our time. The thing I cannot for the life of
me understand is why some people think that all people having the
same rights diminishes their rights. Special Rights for special
people? Like billionaires who pay less taxes than their custodial
personnel.

bliss- Dell Precision 7730- PCLOS 2024.07- Linux 6.6.36- Plasma 5.27.11

--
b l i s s - S F 4 e v e r at D S L E x t r e m e dot com

On Thu, 4 Jul 2024, Borax Man wrote:

> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.misc.]
> On 2024-07-04, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 3 Jul 2024, RabidPedagog wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-07-03 6:05 p.m., SugarBug wrote:
>>>> NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors,
>>>> forces abdication of founder
>>>>
>>>> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40870314
>>>>
>>>> I found a youtube version of this article being read by a gray-bearded
>>>> tech nerd with a Hawaiian shirt: https://youtu.be/KsDYul3J3Dc
>>>>
>>>> Maybe I should pop a pineapple pizza in the oven and watch the drama.
>>>
>>> Darn, I thought I was the first to post this.
>>
>> Are there any non-political distributions to switch to? Since I'm a free
>> speech extremist I'm against all projects that ban conservative, nazis and
>> communists who contribute.
>
> Most people in "tech" seem to be insufferable progressives.
> Unfortunately people now seem to think that everything they touch, and
> everything they get involved in, needs to be "activist". What
> distribution are you using at the moment?

Sigh, yes this is true. But, at least I am benefiting from this. My
company has a strict "no woke" policy, and due to that, I get highly
skilled people to work for me as consultants who would throw up if they
had to work for big IT with their woke ideology! =)

I use opensuse at the moment, but based on what I've read they've gone
woke. So next time I reinstall it is probably time to change.

Based on very shallow research it looks as if perhaps Alpine linux and
Freebsd might be two communities who don't explicitly reject
conservatives.

>
> I'm using Debian, and I haven't seen anything overtly political, but
> then, I haven't looked into it that deep.

Ah, maybe that could be another haven perhaps!

On 2024-07-04, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 04/07/2024 11:41, Borax Man wrote:
>> Most people in "tech" seem to be insufferable progressives.
>> Unfortunately people now seem to think that everything they touch, and
>> everything they get involved in, needs to be "activist".
>
> The fact is that Marxism - and this is another example of it, even if
> its protagonists dont realise it - is attractive to people who think
> they are smarter than they actually are.
> They are not super bright and cannot work things out for themselves from
> first principles but they are absolutely capable of absorbing enormous
> quantities of received wisdom, which they regurgitate using the
> justification that Greater Minds have said it, therefore it must be
> true. This is the "Argumentum Ad Auctoritatem" fallacy.
>
> Because they have more 'facts' stuffed in their heads, they feel they
> are actually better qualified to run things than plebs.
>
> Unfortunately they are vulnerable to any kind of carefully crafted
> bullshit that comes along, because having decreed that ordinary common
> sense is what plebs have, and the Truth is what they have, they are
> never minded to actually attempt to understand the reality of what they
> believe in. And fearful of being the first to declare that the Emperor
> has no clothes, they use their Bandar Logic (We all say it, so it must
> be true) to follow the herd of the minor intelligentsia, and follow the
> herd.
>
> The problem with following the herd, is that all you see is arseholes.
>
> Too much education for not very high quality brains leads to a belief in
> all this woke shit.
>

Marxism says that intellectuals should rule and make decisions, so it
appeals to those who perceive themselves to be intellectuals, who know
better than us. This seems to underlie the thinking, "we are the
educated elite, and we know better". So naturally, an ideology which
puts them in power, is appealing. We've run the experiment, put
intellectuals in power, and it didn't work. I don't really have a
problem with people being educated, after all, I am as well, but I do
with the hubris that education makes one better placed to decide how
society should work. Your degree in Software Engineering does NOT put
you in a better position to comment on social issues and politics and
what values are good for society.

I see this quite often in my line of work, this condescension towards
the uneducated, that people only vote a particular way because of
ignorance of fear. Worse, is that this mentality is now promoted and
coddled, workplaces now champion themselves as promoters of a "social
good", which gives those who work there an even bigger head.

On 2024-07-04, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, 4 Jul 2024, Borax Man wrote:
>
>> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.misc.]
>> On 2024-07-04, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 3 Jul 2024, RabidPedagog wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-07-03 6:05 p.m., SugarBug wrote:
>>>>> NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors,
>>>>> forces abdication of founder
>>>>>
>>>>> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40870314
>>>>>
>>>>> I found a youtube version of this article being read by a gray-bearded
>>>>> tech nerd with a Hawaiian shirt: https://youtu.be/KsDYul3J3Dc
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe I should pop a pineapple pizza in the oven and watch the drama.
>>>>
>>>> Darn, I thought I was the first to post this.
>>>
>>> Are there any non-political distributions to switch to? Since I'm a free
>>> speech extremist I'm against all projects that ban conservative, nazis and
>>> communists who contribute.
>>
>> Most people in "tech" seem to be insufferable progressives.
>> Unfortunately people now seem to think that everything they touch, and
>> everything they get involved in, needs to be "activist". What
>> distribution are you using at the moment?
>
> Sigh, yes this is true. But, at least I am benefiting from this. My
> company has a strict "no woke" policy, and due to that, I get highly
> skilled people to work for me as consultants who would throw up if they
> had to work for big IT with their woke ideology! =)
>
> I use opensuse at the moment, but based on what I've read they've gone
> woke. So next time I reinstall it is probably time to change.
>
> Based on very shallow research it looks as if perhaps Alpine linux and
> Freebsd might be two communities who don't explicitly reject
> conservatives.
>
>>
>> I'm using Debian, and I haven't seen anything overtly political, but
>> then, I haven't looked into it that deep.
>
> Ah, maybe that could be another haven perhaps!

Double check FreeBSD. I thought they signed up to the woke "Contributor
Covenant" if I recall correctly. That CoC is an explicitely political
and divisive CoC which is specifically designed, as stated by its very
own creator, to end "meritocracy". People that don't know better let
these wolves in sheeps clothing into their organisation and poison it.

On 05/07/2024 03:10, Borax Man wrote:
> On 2024-07-04, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 04/07/2024 11:41, Borax Man wrote:
>>> Most people in "tech" seem to be insufferable progressives.
>>> Unfortunately people now seem to think that everything they touch, and
>>> everything they get involved in, needs to be "activist".
>>
>> The fact is that Marxism - and this is another example of it, even if
>> its protagonists dont realise it - is attractive to people who think
>> they are smarter than they actually are.
>> They are not super bright and cannot work things out for themselves from
>> first principles but they are absolutely capable of absorbing enormous
>> quantities of received wisdom, which they regurgitate using the
>> justification that Greater Minds have said it, therefore it must be
>> true. This is the "Argumentum Ad Auctoritatem" fallacy.
>>
>> Because they have more 'facts' stuffed in their heads, they feel they
>> are actually better qualified to run things than plebs.
>>
>> Unfortunately they are vulnerable to any kind of carefully crafted
>> bullshit that comes along, because having decreed that ordinary common
>> sense is what plebs have, and the Truth is what they have, they are
>> never minded to actually attempt to understand the reality of what they
>> believe in. And fearful of being the first to declare that the Emperor
>> has no clothes, they use their Bandar Logic (We all say it, so it must
>> be true) to follow the herd of the minor intelligentsia, and follow the
>> herd.
>>
>> The problem with following the herd, is that all you see is arseholes.
>>
>> Too much education for not very high quality brains leads to a belief in
>> all this woke shit.
>>
>
> Marxism says that intellectuals should rule and make decisions, so it
> appeals to those who perceive themselves to be intellectuals, who know
> better than us. This seems to underlie the thinking, "we are the
> educated elite, and we know better". So naturally, an ideology which
> puts them in power, is appealing. We've run the experiment, put
> intellectuals in power, and it didn't work. I don't really have a
> problem with people being educated, after all, I am as well, but I do
> with the hubris that education makes one better placed to decide how
> society should work. Your degree in Software Engineering does NOT put
> you in a better position to comment on social issues and politics and
> what values are good for society.
1. My degree is not in software engineering
2. My contempt is not for true intellectuals, but for the vast majority
of pseudo intellectuals who are as you describe above.
3. I have far more time for the ordinary bloke on the shop floor who has
learnt by direct experience.

>
> I see this quite often in my line of work, this condescension towards
> the uneducated, that people only vote a particular way because of
> ignorance of fear. Worse, is that this mentality is now promoted and
> coddled, workplaces now champion themselves as promoters of a "social
> good", which gives those who work there an even bigger head.

The only people who vote for delusion are the champagne socialists with
their Art degrees and their moral 'issues'

--
To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.

On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, Borax Man wrote:

> On 2024-07-04, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 4 Jul 2024, Borax Man wrote:
>>
>>> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.misc.]
>>> On 2024-07-04, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 3 Jul 2024, RabidPedagog wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2024-07-03 6:05 p.m., SugarBug wrote:
>>>>>> NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors,
>>>>>> forces abdication of founder
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40870314
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I found a youtube version of this article being read by a gray-bearded
>>>>>> tech nerd with a Hawaiian shirt: https://youtu.be/KsDYul3J3Dc
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe I should pop a pineapple pizza in the oven and watch the drama.
>>>>>
>>>>> Darn, I thought I was the first to post this.
>>>>
>>>> Are there any non-political distributions to switch to? Since I'm a free
>>>> speech extremist I'm against all projects that ban conservative, nazis and
>>>> communists who contribute.
>>>
>>> Most people in "tech" seem to be insufferable progressives.
>>> Unfortunately people now seem to think that everything they touch, and
>>> everything they get involved in, needs to be "activist". What
>>> distribution are you using at the moment?
>>
>> Sigh, yes this is true. But, at least I am benefiting from this. My
>> company has a strict "no woke" policy, and due to that, I get highly
>> skilled people to work for me as consultants who would throw up if they
>> had to work for big IT with their woke ideology! =)
>>
>> I use opensuse at the moment, but based on what I've read they've gone
>> woke. So next time I reinstall it is probably time to change.
>>
>> Based on very shallow research it looks as if perhaps Alpine linux and
>> Freebsd might be two communities who don't explicitly reject
>> conservatives.
>>
>>>
>>> I'm using Debian, and I haven't seen anything overtly political, but
>>> then, I haven't looked into it that deep.
>>
>> Ah, maybe that could be another haven perhaps!
>
> Double check FreeBSD. I thought they signed up to the woke "Contributor
> Covenant" if I recall correctly. That CoC is an explicitely political
> and divisive CoC which is specifically designed, as stated by its very
> own creator, to end "meritocracy". People that don't know better let
> these wolves in sheeps clothing into their organisation and poison it.

Thank you for the warning! Let me have a look...

This is what they have:

be friendly and patient,
be welcoming,
be considerate,
be respectful,
be careful in the words that you choose and be kind to others,
when we disagree, try to understand why.

I see nothing wrong with that... continued...

Be careful in the words that you choose and be kind to others. Do not
insult or put down other participants. Harassment and other exclusionary
behavior aren’t acceptable. This includes, but is not limited to:

Violent threats or language directed against another person.
Discriminatory jokes and language.
Posting sexually explicit or violent material.
Posting (or threatening to post) other people’s personally identifying
information ("doxing").
Personal insults, especially those using racist or sexist terms.
Unwelcome sexual attention.
Advocating for, or encouraging, any of the above behavior.

I can live with the above, _however_, the proof of the pudding is in the
eating. If conservatives and libertarians have beenkicked out of the
project, while homos and trans people stay after rubbing peoples faces in
their weirdness, then it is apparent that the above is only directed
against some isms and not others.

So I've seen worse than Freebsd, but it does have a slight bias against
pro-trans people at the expense of conservative although it is not that
pronouced I'd say.

In terms of other BSDs I think the most hardcore tech-focused as in "shut
up and code" might be OpenBSD. I doubt they've had many trans-battles
there due to their benevolent dictator for life setup.

Too bad they have a crappy filesystems, otherwise Openbsd could be a nice
project to join as well.

On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

>> I see this quite often in my line of work, this condescension towards
>> the uneducated, that people only vote a particular way because of
>> ignorance of fear. Worse, is that this mentality is now promoted and
>> coddled, workplaces now champion themselves as promoters of a "social
>> good", which gives those who work there an even bigger head.
>
> The only people who vote for delusion are the champagne socialists with their
> Art degrees and their moral 'issues'

This is the truth! Most extreme tech-socialists I've met live in houses,
have at least 2 cars, and are generally very well off. Often they do
have big public sector customers who help them fund their life styles.

It is also completely impossible to discuss why their politics is
irrational and damaging to society at large, because they are such huge
winners of the current system.

However... and here is where it gets interesting!

I know one socialist from a working class background, and he is the only
socialist I know who it is actually possible to discuss politics with!
Needless to say, we've ended up in the agree to disagree box quite
often, but from time to time we actually do agree on something.

On 05/07/2024 11:29, D wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>>> I see this quite often in my line of work, this condescension towards
>>> the uneducated, that people only vote a particular way because of
>>> ignorance of fear.  Worse, is that this mentality is now promoted and
>>> coddled, workplaces now champion themselves as promoters of a "social
>>> good", which gives those who work there an even bigger head.
>>
>> The only people who vote for delusion are the champagne socialists
>> with their Art degrees and their moral 'issues'
>
> This is the truth! Most extreme tech-socialists I've met live in houses,
> have at least 2 cars, and are generally very well off. Often they do
> have big public sector customers who help them fund their life styles.
>
> It is also completely impossible to discuss why their politics is
> irrational and damaging to society at large, because they are such huge
> winners of the current system.
>
> However... and here is where it gets interesting!
>
> I know one socialist from a working class background, and he is the only
> socialist I know who it is actually possible to discuss politics with!
> Needless to say, we've ended up in the agree to disagree box quite
> often, but from time to time we actually do agree on something.

A late friend was a rampant sort of lower middle class Scottish raving
socialist of the red union sort. He became a local councillor, and said
that 'the only people who ever got things done were the Tory squirearchy.

And yet he was overjoyed when Blair got in.

I finally realised that what appealed was the ideology. The fact that
Labour never has and never will solve a single social problem it
identifies as 'crucial' meant nothing to him
It was the thought, that counted.

Virtue signalling, not practical politics.

Socialists are the ultimate cat-bellers. Full of solutions that cannot
be implemented or won't work if they are.

And sadly that became the game of the Tories too, which is why they have
been given the finger. All mouth and no trousers.

--
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to
rule.
– H. L. Mencken, American journalist, 1880-1956

On 2024-07-05, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 05/07/2024 03:10, Borax Man wrote:
>> On 2024-07-04, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 04/07/2024 11:41, Borax Man wrote:
>>>> Most people in "tech" seem to be insufferable progressives.
>>>> Unfortunately people now seem to think that everything they touch, and
>>>> everything they get involved in, needs to be "activist".
>>>
>>> The fact is that Marxism - and this is another example of it, even if
>>> its protagonists dont realise it - is attractive to people who think
>>> they are smarter than they actually are.
>>> They are not super bright and cannot work things out for themselves from
>>> first principles but they are absolutely capable of absorbing enormous
>>> quantities of received wisdom, which they regurgitate using the
>>> justification that Greater Minds have said it, therefore it must be
>>> true. This is the "Argumentum Ad Auctoritatem" fallacy.
>>>
>>> Because they have more 'facts' stuffed in their heads, they feel they
>>> are actually better qualified to run things than plebs.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately they are vulnerable to any kind of carefully crafted
>>> bullshit that comes along, because having decreed that ordinary common
>>> sense is what plebs have, and the Truth is what they have, they are
>>> never minded to actually attempt to understand the reality of what they
>>> believe in. And fearful of being the first to declare that the Emperor
>>> has no clothes, they use their Bandar Logic (We all say it, so it must
>>> be true) to follow the herd of the minor intelligentsia, and follow the
>>> herd.
>>>
>>> The problem with following the herd, is that all you see is arseholes.
>>>
>>> Too much education for not very high quality brains leads to a belief in
>>> all this woke shit.
>>>
>>
>> Marxism says that intellectuals should rule and make decisions, so it
>> appeals to those who perceive themselves to be intellectuals, who know
>> better than us. This seems to underlie the thinking, "we are the
>> educated elite, and we know better". So naturally, an ideology which
>> puts them in power, is appealing. We've run the experiment, put
>> intellectuals in power, and it didn't work. I don't really have a
>> problem with people being educated, after all, I am as well, but I do
>> with the hubris that education makes one better placed to decide how
>> society should work. Your degree in Software Engineering does NOT put
>> you in a better position to comment on social issues and politics and
>> what values are good for society.
> 1. My degree is not in software engineering
> 2. My contempt is not for true intellectuals, but for the vast majority
> of pseudo intellectuals who are as you describe above.
> 3. I have far more time for the ordinary bloke on the shop floor who has
> learnt by direct experience.
>

The people on the shop floor know from experience what works and what
doesn't, and more importantly, how to actually achieve something of
practical value. Besides, if you're going to shoot your mouth off to
say how society should work, you MUST listen to people who actually do
make society work, that is, the farmer, the doctors, the tradesmen, the
engineers, the workers.

When you actually have to produce something tangible, when you're
dealing with material reality, you have little time for pie-in-the sky
ideas that don't work.

>>
>> I see this quite often in my line of work, this condescension towards
>> the uneducated, that people only vote a particular way because of
>> ignorance of fear. Worse, is that this mentality is now promoted and
>> coddled, workplaces now champion themselves as promoters of a "social
>> good", which gives those who work there an even bigger head.
>
> The only people who vote for delusion are the champagne socialists with
> their Art degrees and their moral 'issues'
>

I wish it were only the Art students, but it isn't confined to just them.

On 2024-07-05, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>>> I see this quite often in my line of work, this condescension towards
>>> the uneducated, that people only vote a particular way because of
>>> ignorance of fear. Worse, is that this mentality is now promoted and
>>> coddled, workplaces now champion themselves as promoters of a "social
>>> good", which gives those who work there an even bigger head.
>>
>> The only people who vote for delusion are the champagne socialists with their
>> Art degrees and their moral 'issues'
>
> This is the truth! Most extreme tech-socialists I've met live in houses,
> have at least 2 cars, and are generally very well off. Often they do
> have big public sector customers who help them fund their life styles.
>
> It is also completely impossible to discuss why their politics is
> irrational and damaging to society at large, because they are such huge
> winners of the current system.
>
> However... and here is where it gets interesting!
>
> I know one socialist from a working class background, and he is the only
> socialist I know who it is actually possible to discuss politics with!
> Needless to say, we've ended up in the agree to disagree box quite
> often, but from time to time we actually do agree on something.

Thats probably what irks me most of all, that we pay for this. It's
not the people who are grinding the most pushing these ideas. I could
excuse Linux Torvalds wanting to weigh in on the Code of Conduct for the
Linux Kernel, but its people who don't contribute much. Like Coraline
Ada Ehmke, who create the Contributor Covenant, throwing their weight
around, but not creating anything except a bloated github profile of
lots of tiny Ruby spots of code. The Ladybird browser noted the same
thing, their objection to the Woke activism was the person wanting to
change gendered language had made no other real contribution. Think of
those who go around moralising as DEI consultants or activist, what have
they actually produced of real value?

These "woke" or "marxist" ideas are luxury beliefs, and they are our
priestly class. These beliefs are held by those who work cushy jobs,
usually, or have nothing to lose anyway. Their JOB could just be to
pontificate or moralise, like a DEI consultant or something, but again,
this is just done on the backs of those who actually work.

On 05/07/2024 13:49, Borax Man wrote:
> On 2024-07-05, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 05/07/2024 03:10, Borax Man wrote:
>>> On 2024-07-04, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 04/07/2024 11:41, Borax Man wrote:
>>>>> Most people in "tech" seem to be insufferable progressives.
>>>>> Unfortunately people now seem to think that everything they touch, and
>>>>> everything they get involved in, needs to be "activist".
>>>>
>>>> The fact is that Marxism - and this is another example of it, even if
>>>> its protagonists dont realise it - is attractive to people who think
>>>> they are smarter than they actually are.
>>>> They are not super bright and cannot work things out for themselves from
>>>> first principles but they are absolutely capable of absorbing enormous
>>>> quantities of received wisdom, which they regurgitate using the
>>>> justification that Greater Minds have said it, therefore it must be
>>>> true. This is the "Argumentum Ad Auctoritatem" fallacy.
>>>>
>>>> Because they have more 'facts' stuffed in their heads, they feel they
>>>> are actually better qualified to run things than plebs.
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately they are vulnerable to any kind of carefully crafted
>>>> bullshit that comes along, because having decreed that ordinary common
>>>> sense is what plebs have, and the Truth is what they have, they are
>>>> never minded to actually attempt to understand the reality of what they
>>>> believe in. And fearful of being the first to declare that the Emperor
>>>> has no clothes, they use their Bandar Logic (We all say it, so it must
>>>> be true) to follow the herd of the minor intelligentsia, and follow the
>>>> herd.
>>>>
>>>> The problem with following the herd, is that all you see is arseholes.
>>>>
>>>> Too much education for not very high quality brains leads to a belief in
>>>> all this woke shit.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Marxism says that intellectuals should rule and make decisions, so it
>>> appeals to those who perceive themselves to be intellectuals, who know
>>> better than us. This seems to underlie the thinking, "we are the
>>> educated elite, and we know better". So naturally, an ideology which
>>> puts them in power, is appealing. We've run the experiment, put
>>> intellectuals in power, and it didn't work. I don't really have a
>>> problem with people being educated, after all, I am as well, but I do
>>> with the hubris that education makes one better placed to decide how
>>> society should work. Your degree in Software Engineering does NOT put
>>> you in a better position to comment on social issues and politics and
>>> what values are good for society.
>> 1. My degree is not in software engineering
>> 2. My contempt is not for true intellectuals, but for the vast majority
>> of pseudo intellectuals who are as you describe above.
>> 3. I have far more time for the ordinary bloke on the shop floor who has
>> learnt by direct experience.
>>
>
> The people on the shop floor know from experience what works and what
> doesn't, and more importantly, how to actually achieve something of
> practical value. Besides, if you're going to shoot your mouth off to
> say how society should work, you MUST listen to people who actually do
> make society work, that is, the farmer, the doctors, the tradesmen, the
> engineers, the workers.
>
I spent my whole life foing that.
Its the peole who have never stepped ouside their safe council jobs and
are lifeling beuracrats aho are running things now.

> When you actually have to produce something tangible, when you're
> dealing with material reality, you have little time for pie-in-the sky
> ideas that don't work.
>
Precisely.

The New Left is all about morally correct ideas, no matter how impractical.

I have south African connections. The morally correct populist communist
ANC supported by all the Liberal Lefties, have all but destroyed the
wealth of the average black African and all but removed any personal
security for anyone, regardless of colour.

>
>>>
>>> I see this quite often in my line of work, this condescension towards
>>> the uneducated, that people only vote a particular way because of
>>> ignorance of fear. Worse, is that this mentality is now promoted and
>>> coddled, workplaces now champion themselves as promoters of a "social
>>> good", which gives those who work there an even bigger head.
>>
>> The only people who vote for delusion are the champagne socialists with
>> their Art degrees and their moral 'issues'
>>
>
> I wish it were only the Art students, but it isn't confined to just them.

No, that is true. Minor technical people too - software engineers, lab
technicians, teachers - anyone who thinks that knowledge *rote learned*
is actually some sort of mark of intelligence.

There are people who think, and there are people who read the NY times
or the Guardian.

--
"An intellectual is a person knowledgeable in one field who speaks out
only in others...”

Tom Wolfe

On 05/07/2024 14:03, Borax Man wrote:

>
> These "woke" or "marxist" ideas are luxury beliefs, and they are our
> priestly class. These beliefs are held by those who work cushy jobs,
> usually, or have nothing to lose anyway. Their JOB could just be to
> pontificate or moralise, like a DEI consultant or something, but again,
> this is just done on the backs of those who actually work.

Yes.

Its all based on dodgy metaphysics, cat belling and Bandar Logic.

"Reality is a social construct, so if people wan to be a different sex
than they are born with we must construct a belief system in which that
is reality and as far as making it happen - well doctors will just have
to do it. And we all think this way, so we cant be wrong, and if you
disagree you are a revolting terf."

--
"When one man dies it's a tragedy. When thousands die it's statistics."

Josef Stalin

On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 05/07/2024 11:29, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>>> I see this quite often in my line of work, this condescension towards
>>>> the uneducated, that people only vote a particular way because of
>>>> ignorance of fear.  Worse, is that this mentality is now promoted and
>>>> coddled, workplaces now champion themselves as promoters of a "social
>>>> good", which gives those who work there an even bigger head.
>>>
>>> The only people who vote for delusion are the champagne socialists with
>>> their Art degrees and their moral 'issues'
>>
>> This is the truth! Most extreme tech-socialists I've met live in houses,
>> have at least 2 cars, and are generally very well off. Often they do
>> have big public sector customers who help them fund their life styles.
>>
>> It is also completely impossible to discuss why their politics is
>> irrational and damaging to society at large, because they are such huge
>> winners of the current system.
>>
>> However... and here is where it gets interesting!
>>
>> I know one socialist from a working class background, and he is the only
>> socialist I know who it is actually possible to discuss politics with!
>> Needless to say, we've ended up in the agree to disagree box quite
>> often, but from time to time we actually do agree on something.
>
> A late friend was a rampant sort of lower middle class Scottish raving
> socialist of the red union sort. He became a local councillor, and said that
> 'the only people who ever got things done were the Tory squirearchy.
>
> And yet he was overjoyed when Blair got in.
>
> I finally realised that what appealed was the ideology. The fact that Labour
> never has and never will solve a single social problem it identifies as
> 'crucial' meant nothing to him
> It was the thought, that counted.
>
> Virtue signalling, not practical politics.
>
> Socialists are the ultimate cat-bellers. Full of solutions that cannot be
> implemented or won't work if they are.
>
> And sadly that became the game of the Tories too, which is why they have been
> given the finger. All mouth and no trousers.

This is true. Socialism has been refuted historically (it has never
worked), logically (it is self-contradictory) and scientifically (it has
been proven by economists not to work). Yet, the masses insist on believing it.

The reason is that it is a religion where the leaders promise heaven on
earth, here and now, and workers who don't like their lives, hope that
this time it will be different, which of course it never is.

But who knows? Maybe humanity will learn one day?

On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, Borax Man wrote:

> On 2024-07-05, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>>> I see this quite often in my line of work, this condescension towards
>>>> the uneducated, that people only vote a particular way because of
>>>> ignorance of fear. Worse, is that this mentality is now promoted and
>>>> coddled, workplaces now champion themselves as promoters of a "social
>>>> good", which gives those who work there an even bigger head.
>>>
>>> The only people who vote for delusion are the champagne socialists with their
>>> Art degrees and their moral 'issues'
>>
>> This is the truth! Most extreme tech-socialists I've met live in houses,
>> have at least 2 cars, and are generally very well off. Often they do
>> have big public sector customers who help them fund their life styles.
>>
>> It is also completely impossible to discuss why their politics is
>> irrational and damaging to society at large, because they are such huge
>> winners of the current system.
>>
>> However... and here is where it gets interesting!
>>
>> I know one socialist from a working class background, and he is the only
>> socialist I know who it is actually possible to discuss politics with!
>> Needless to say, we've ended up in the agree to disagree box quite
>> often, but from time to time we actually do agree on something.
>
> Thats probably what irks me most of all, that we pay for this. It's
> not the people who are grinding the most pushing these ideas. I could
> excuse Linux Torvalds wanting to weigh in on the Code of Conduct for the
> Linux Kernel, but its people who don't contribute much. Like Coraline
> Ada Ehmke, who create the Contributor Covenant, throwing their weight
> around, but not creating anything except a bloated github profile of
> lots of tiny Ruby spots of code. The Ladybird browser noted the same
> thing, their objection to the Woke activism was the person wanting to
> change gendered language had made no other real contribution. Think of
> those who go around moralising as DEI consultants or activist, what have
> they actually produced of real value?
>
> These "woke" or "marxist" ideas are luxury beliefs, and they are our
> priestly class. These beliefs are held by those who work cushy jobs,
> usually, or have nothing to lose anyway. Their JOB could just be to
> pontificate or moralise, like a DEI consultant or something, but again,
> this is just done on the backs of those who actually work.
>

Oh yes... I could keep you throwing up all evening with stories from the
mgmt meetings at a startup where I was consulting. The amount of pure
excrement woke bullshit I had to wade through, parry, oppose, threaten and
argue, to stop was enormous.

In the end, since it was a remote gig, it was not possible to fight, since
most of the other were on site and it's difficult to play politics when
you're the only one remote and the rest are on site.

But to my great satisfaction, once they decided to push through an "agile"
initiative, the top 20 percent of the company left and then they
terminated the most woke people since they couldn't carry their cost any
longer once the revenues dropped due to the woke b.s.! =D

On 05/07/2024 18:15, D wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> On 05/07/2024 11:29, D wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I see this quite often in my line of work, this condescension towards
>>>>> the uneducated, that people only vote a particular way because of
>>>>> ignorance of fear.  Worse, is that this mentality is now promoted and
>>>>> coddled, workplaces now champion themselves as promoters of a "social
>>>>> good", which gives those who work there an even bigger head.
>>>>
>>>> The only people who vote for delusion are the champagne socialists
>>>> with their Art degrees and their moral 'issues'
>>>
>>> This is the truth! Most extreme tech-socialists I've met live in houses,
>>> have at least 2 cars, and are generally very well off. Often they do
>>> have big public sector customers who help them fund their life styles.
>>>
>>> It is also completely impossible to discuss why their politics is
>>> irrational and damaging to society at large, because they are such huge
>>> winners of the current system.
>>>
>>> However... and here is where it gets interesting!
>>>
>>> I know one socialist from a working class background, and he is the only
>>> socialist I know who it is actually possible to discuss politics with!
>>> Needless to say, we've ended up in the agree to disagree box quite
>>> often, but from time to time we actually do agree on something.
>>
>> A late friend was a rampant sort of lower middle class Scottish raving
>> socialist of the red union sort. He became a local councillor, and
>> said that 'the only people who ever got things done were the Tory
>> squirearchy.
>>
>> And yet he was overjoyed when Blair got in.
>>
>> I finally realised that what appealed was the ideology. The fact that
>> Labour never has and never will solve a single social problem it
>> identifies as 'crucial' meant nothing to him
>> It was the thought, that counted.
>>
>> Virtue signalling, not practical politics.
>>
>> Socialists are the ultimate cat-bellers.  Full of solutions that
>> cannot be implemented or won't work if they are.
>>
>> And sadly that became the game of the Tories too, which is why they
>> have been given the finger. All mouth and no trousers.
>
> This is true. Socialism has been refuted historically (it has never
> worked), logically (it is self-contradictory)  and scientifically (it
> has been proven by economists not to work). Yet, the masses insist on
> believing it.
>
> The reason is that it is a religion where the leaders promise heaven on
> earth, here and now, and workers who don't like their lives, hope that
> this time it will be different, which of course it never is.
>
> But who knows? Maybe humanity will learn one day?
Socialism is essentially paternalistic slavery. Everyone works for the
gummint, and the gummint tells them what to think do and say and 'sees
them right'.
Except somehow it never does...

--
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
twenty-first century’s developed world went into hysterical panic over a
globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to
contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen

On 2024-07-05, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> Socialists are the ultimate cat-bellers. Full of solutions that cannot be
>> implemented or won't work if they are.
>>
>> And sadly that became the game of the Tories too, which is why they have been
>> given the finger. All mouth and no trousers.
>
> This is true. Socialism has been refuted historically (it has never
> worked), logically (it is self-contradictory) and scientifically (it has
> been proven by economists not to work). Yet, the masses insist on believing it.
>
> The reason is that it is a religion where the leaders promise heaven on
> earth, here and now, and workers who don't like their lives, hope that
> this time it will be different, which of course it never is.

Unfortunately, this is true of demagogues on both the left and the right.
Take a look at the United States today, for instance. In fact, if you
replace "socialism" with "unbridled capitalism", you've pretty much
covered the whole spectrum (aside from us radical moderates sitting
in the middle, watching the chaos unfold on both sides).

> But who knows? Maybe humanity will learn one day?

I'm not holding my breath.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | We'll go down in history as
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | the first society that wouldn't
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | save itself because it wasn't
/ \ if you read it the right way. | cost-effective. -- Kurt Vonnegut

Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2024-07-05, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> Socialists are the ultimate cat-bellers. Full of solutions that cannot be
>>> implemented or won't work if they are.
>>>
>>> And sadly that became the game of the Tories too, which is why they have been
>>> given the finger. All mouth and no trousers.
>>
>> This is true. Socialism has been refuted historically (it has never
>> worked), logically (it is self-contradictory) and scientifically (it has
>> been proven by economists not to work). Yet, the masses insist on believing it.
>>
>> The reason is that it is a religion where the leaders promise heaven on
>> earth, here and now, and workers who don't like their lives, hope that
>> this time it will be different, which of course it never is.
>
> Unfortunately, this is true of demagogues on both the left and the right.
> Take a look at the United States today, for instance. In fact, if you
> replace "socialism" with "unbridled capitalism", you've pretty much
> covered the whole spectrum (aside from us radical moderates sitting
> in the middle, watching the chaos unfold on both sides).

It's an inevitability of politics since people are generally too
willing to believe in easy utopian promises. When you look at minor
policical parties it's even worse, because they never get enough
power to implement their misconceived schemes and therefore grow
their own imaginary world where "because we'll solve a with b, we
can fix c with d...".

The major parties love to inflate the potential of their schemes
as well, but eventually they actually achieve power and frequently
fail to implement them or find they're ineffective, so their
policies get flushed out and start again at the next
election/revolution. To try and get closer to topic, imagine it as
a stack in a computer.

Then if the majors make a particular habit of filling their stack
with rubbish between each flush, a radical minor party might get
elected and unleash their huge full stack of ideas. Then that soon
gets flushed out in a stream of failure and infeasibility, so the
new party is forced to realign itself along some other course while
still trying to hold on to the support it won for its original
vision. They often turn to frantic nationalism at that point.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

On 2024-07-05, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, Borax Man wrote:
>
[*snip*]
>> On 2024-07-05, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>
>> Thats probably what irks me most of all, that we pay for this. It's
>> not the people who are grinding the most pushing these ideas. I could
>> excuse Linux Torvalds wanting to weigh in on the Code of Conduct for the
>> Linux Kernel, but its people who don't contribute much. Like Coraline
>> Ada Ehmke, who create the Contributor Covenant, throwing their weight
>> around, but not creating anything except a bloated github profile of
>> lots of tiny Ruby spots of code. The Ladybird browser noted the same
>> thing, their objection to the Woke activism was the person wanting to
>> change gendered language had made no other real contribution. Think of
>> those who go around moralising as DEI consultants or activist, what have
>> they actually produced of real value?
>>
>> These "woke" or "marxist" ideas are luxury beliefs, and they are our
>> priestly class. These beliefs are held by those who work cushy jobs,
>> usually, or have nothing to lose anyway. Their JOB could just be to
>> pontificate or moralise, like a DEI consultant or something, but again,
>> this is just done on the backs of those who actually work.
>>
>
> Oh yes... I could keep you throwing up all evening with stories from the
> mgmt meetings at a startup where I was consulting. The amount of pure
> excrement woke bullshit I had to wade through, parry, oppose, threaten and
> argue, to stop was enormous.
>
> In the end, since it was a remote gig, it was not possible to fight, since
> most of the other were on site and it's difficult to play politics when
> you're the only one remote and the rest are on site.
>
> But to my great satisfaction, once they decided to push through an "agile"
> initiative, the top 20 percent of the company left and then they
> terminated the most woke people since they couldn't carry their cost any
> longer once the revenues dropped due to the woke b.s.! =D

I've had to deal with a lot of it, trust me. Unfortunately there is a
class of people who are becoming more and more dominant, who are taking
leadership positions within companies, who see the company as a vehicle
for their own vanity. They focus more and more on using the company,
and its resources to signal their own virtue than to produce. More and
more focus on things that have nothing to do with the core business, and
things where it is debatable whether any employee get any tangible
benefit.

In Australia, there was a recent referendum about whether to include a
"voice to parliament" for Aboriginals and a preamble in the constitution
recognising them as the first peoples. I was rather ambivalent about
it, but you saw companies spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to
campaing for a "YES" vote. Why is an airline spending money on this?
How does this benefit shareholders, employees or customers? No, its so
the CEO and execs can crow to others about their social work.

Anyway, to bring this back slightly on topic, I guess the point is we
need to not tolerate people using projects, companies, and steering them
towards activism for their own purposes. If you want to be an activist
for LGBT rights or whatever, do so, but we shouldn't sit by why they use
*other peoples hard work* as a vehicle for thier own activism. Do that
on your own time, with your own resources. I think this is where we as
users, developers, employees, stakeholders need to push back and bit and
say "take it elsewhere, if you want a project, company to do activist
work, make your own explicitely for that purpose". Take AntiX, its
explicitely Anti-Fascist, I have no idea how a distro is "anti-fascist",
it seems ridiculous, but at least its their OWN project, and from what I
know, it doesn't intrude on other peoples works, and apparently,
according to a friend, actually runs great.