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comp / comp.os.linux.misc / Odd behaviour?

Subject: Odd behaviour?
From: The Natural Philosop
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: A little, after lunch
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2024 20:32 UTC

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Linux Mint MATE here.

On my desktop is a file named TMPEEB.tmp
It shows up in the file browser as well

It doesn't show up in the console using ls.
If I try and delete it it says it doesn't exist.

Before I reboot the desktop does any one know whats going on?

--
“A leader is best When people barely know he exists. Of a good leader,
who talks little,When his work is done, his aim fulfilled,They will say,
“We did this ourselves.”

― Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
From: Carlos E.R.
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2024 21:27 UTC
References: 1

Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: robin_listas@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2024 22:27:39 +0100
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On 2024-12-03 21:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
> Linux Mint MATE here.
>
> On my desktop is a file named TMPEEB.tmp
> It shows up in the file browser as well

https://vms.drweb.com/virus/?i=24143207

But it attacks Windows, not Linux.

>
> It doesn't show up in the console using ls.
> If I try and delete it it says it doesn't exist.
>
> Before I reboot the desktop does any one know whats going on?
>

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
From: The Natural Philosop
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: A little, after lunch
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2024 22:15 UTC
References: 1 2

Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2024 22:15:27 +0000
Organization: A little, after lunch
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On 03/12/2024 21:27, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2024-12-03 21:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>> Linux Mint MATE here.
>>
>> On my desktop is a file named TMPEEB.tmp
>> It shows up in the file browser as well
>
> https://vms.drweb.com/virus/?i=24143207
>
> But it attacks Windows, not Linux.
>
Well that desktop is accessible from the windows VM but that never runs
a browser

What I find puzzling is how it appears in the GUI but isn't on the
actual machine file system

It does look like Windows may have tried to put it there, but failed
leaving it sort of half there and half not.

I did have some power failures.

Anyway I think its harmless

I'll reboot the GUI and see if its still there, tomorrow.

>>
>> It doesn't show up in the console using ls.
>> If I try and delete it it says it doesn't exist.
>>
>> Before I reboot the desktop does any one know whats going on?
>>
>
>

--
“It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established
authorities are wrong.”

― Voltaire, The Age of Louis XIV

Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
From: Andy Burns
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2024 22:24 UTC
References: 1 2 3

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From: usenet@andyburns.uk (Andy Burns)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2024 22:24:27 +0000
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The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> What I find puzzling is how it appears in the GUI but isn't on the
> actual machine file system

funky characters in filename?

ls -la | cat -v

Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
From: Woozy Song
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2024 04:40 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4

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From: suzyw0ng@outlook.com (Woozy Song)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2024 12:40:40 +0800
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Andy Burns wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> What I find puzzling is how it appears in the GUI but isn't on the
>> actual machine file system
>
> funky characters in filename?
>
> ls -la | cat -v

or something in DIR_COLORS is set very dark, so you can't see that file
type. Try ls --color=no

Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
From: D
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2024 09:29 UTC
References: 1 2

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On Tue, 3 Dec 2024, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> On 2024-12-03 21:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>> Linux Mint MATE here.
>>
>> On my desktop is a file named TMPEEB.tmp
>> It shows up in the file browser as well
>
> https://vms.drweb.com/virus/?i=24143207
>
> But it attacks Windows, not Linux.

So it exploits chrome?

>>
>> It doesn't show up in the console using ls.
>> If I try and delete it it says it doesn't exist.
>>
>> Before I reboot the desktop does any one know whats going on?
>>
>
>
>

Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
From: Carlos E.R.
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2024 11:42 UTC
References: 1 2 3

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From: robin_listas@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2024 12:42:38 +0100
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On 2024-12-04 10:29, D wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Dec 2024, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> On 2024-12-03 21:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>> Linux Mint MATE here.
>>>
>>> On my desktop is a file named TMPEEB.tmp
>>> It shows up in the file browser as well
>>
>> https://vms.drweb.com/virus/?i=24143207
>>
>> But it attacks Windows, not Linux.
>
> So it exploits chrome?

Chrome is not windows.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
From: The Natural Philosop
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: A little, after lunch
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2024 12:23 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4

Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2024 12:23:55 +0000
Organization: A little, after lunch
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On 03/12/2024 22:24, Andy Burns wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> What I find puzzling is how it appears in the GUI but isn't on the
>> actual machine file system
>
> funky characters in filename?
>
> ls -la | cat -v

Nope. Still no sign

I think some part of the GUI environment builds a cache, and its in
that, but not in the real world so to speak

--
If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
...I'd spend it on drink.

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)

Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
From: The Natural Philosop
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: A little, after lunch
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2024 12:24 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5

Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2024 12:24:30 +0000
Organization: A little, after lunch
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On 04/12/2024 04:40, Woozy Song wrote:
> ls --color=no

No difference :-(

--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
From: D
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2024 13:03 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4

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From: nospam@example.net (D)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2024 14:03:12 +0100
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On Wed, 4 Dec 2024, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> On 2024-12-04 10:29, D wrote:
>> On Tue, 3 Dec 2024, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-12-03 21:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Linux Mint MATE here.
>>>>
>>>> On my desktop is a file named TMPEEB.tmp
>>>> It shows up in the file browser as well
>>>
>>> https://vms.drweb.com/virus/?i=24143207
>>>
>>> But it attacks Windows, not Linux.
>>
>> So it exploits chrome?
>
> Chrome is not windows.
>

Does it?

Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
From: Rich
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2024 18:41 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5

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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
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The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 03/12/2024 22:24, Andy Burns wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> What I find puzzling is how it appears in the GUI but isn't on the
>>> actual machine file system
>>
>> funky characters in filename?
>>
>> ls -la | cat -v
>
> Nope. Still no sign
>
> I think some part of the GUI environment builds a cache, and its in
> that, but not in the real world so to speak

What is the GUI file browser program you use under Mate?

Many "GUI file browsers" have a tendancy to "combine" plural actual
disk paths into the 'appearance' of a singular view (and "Desktop" is
one of those 'views' that GUI dev's think need this miss-feature).

So it is possible the file it is located somewhere other than
~/Desktop/ and the GUI is merging together that other location with the
contents of the actual ~/Desktop/, and presenting the combination to
you as "Desktop".

Which would explain why it does not appear when you actually view
~/Desktop/ with ls from a terminal.

Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
From: Pancho
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2024 19:41 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5

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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
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On 12/4/24 12:23, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 03/12/2024 22:24, Andy Burns wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> What I find puzzling is how it appears in the GUI but isn't on the
>>> actual machine file system
>>
>> funky characters in filename?
>>
>> ls -la | cat -v
>
> Nope. Still no sign
>
> I think some part of the GUI environment builds a cache, and its in
> that, but not in the real world so to speak
>

Yes, that it what I think I have seen in Gnome Desktop and the Gnome
Files App (file explorer) vs bash ls. I think I have seen behaviour that
could only be explained by caching. I tested yesterday, but some kind of
observer type behaviour was keeping everything perfectly and promptly
synced.

Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
From: The Natural Philosop
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: A little, after lunch
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2024 07:59 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6

Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2024 07:59:52 +0000
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On 04/12/2024 18:41, Rich wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 03/12/2024 22:24, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> What I find puzzling is how it appears in the GUI but isn't on the
>>>> actual machine file system
>>>
>>> funky characters in filename?
>>>
>>> ls -la | cat -v
>>
>> Nope. Still no sign
>>
>> I think some part of the GUI environment builds a cache, and its in
>> that, but not in the real world so to speak
>
> What is the GUI file browser program you use under Mate?
>
Caja

> Many "GUI file browsers" have a tendancy to "combine" plural actual
> disk paths into the 'appearance' of a singular view (and "Desktop" is
> one of those 'views' that GUI dev's think need this miss-feature).
>
> So it is possible the file it is located somewhere other than
> ~/Desktop/ and the GUI is merging together that other location with the
> contents of the actual ~/Desktop/, and presenting the combination to
> you as "Desktop".
>
Hmm. Still doesn't say why it cant be deleted/found Even from the GUI
file manager

> Which would explain why it does not appear when you actually view
> ~/Desktop/ with ls from a terminal.
>

--
Renewable energy: Expensive solutions that don't work to a problem that
doesn't exist instituted by self legalising protection rackets that
don't protect, masquerading as public servants who don't serve the public.

Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
From: The Natural Philosop
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: A little, after lunch
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2024 08:37 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6

Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2024 08:37:44 +0000
Organization: A little, after lunch
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On 04/12/2024 19:41, Pancho wrote:
> On 12/4/24 12:23, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 03/12/2024 22:24, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> What I find puzzling is how it appears in the GUI but isn't on the
>>>> actual machine file system
>>>
>>> funky characters in filename?
>>>
>>> ls -la | cat -v
>>
>> Nope. Still no sign
>>
>> I think some part of the GUI environment builds a cache, and its in
>> that, but not in the real world so to speak
>>
>
> Yes, that it what I think I have seen in Gnome Desktop and the Gnome
> Files App (file explorer) vs bash ls. I think I have seen behaviour that
> could only be explained by caching. I tested yesterday, but some kind of
> observer type behaviour was keeping everything perfectly and promptly
> synced.
>
>
Well I rebooted the GUI and its gone...
I had a look through cajas configs but found no mention

--
Climate is what you expect but weather is what you get.
Mark Twain

Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
From: Carlos E.R.
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2024 10:34 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: robin_listas@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2024 11:34:39 +0100
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On 2024-12-05 08:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 04/12/2024 18:41, Rich wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 03/12/2024 22:24, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What I find puzzling is how it appears in the GUI but isn't on the
>>>>> actual machine file system
>>>>
>>>> funky characters in filename?
>>>>
>>>> ls -la | cat -v
>>>
>>> Nope. Still no sign
>>>
>>> I think some part of the GUI environment builds a cache, and its in
>>> that, but not in the real world so to speak
>>
>> What is the GUI file browser program you use under Mate?
>>
> Caja
>
>> Many "GUI file browsers" have a tendancy to "combine" plural actual
>> disk paths into the 'appearance' of a singular view (and "Desktop" is
>> one of those 'views' that GUI dev's think need this miss-feature).
>>
>> So it is possible the file it is located somewhere other than
>> ~/Desktop/ and the GUI is merging together that other location with the
>> contents of the actual ~/Desktop/, and presenting the combination to
>> you as "Desktop".
>>
> Hmm. Still doesn't say why it cant be deleted/found Even from the GUI
> file manager

Because it would be on another directory.

>> Which would explain why it does not appear when you actually view
>> ~/Desktop/ with ls from a terminal.
>>
>

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
From: The Natural Philosop
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: A little, after lunch
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2024 11:06 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2024 11:06:09 +0000
Organization: A little, after lunch
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On 05/12/2024 10:34, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2024-12-05 08:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 04/12/2024 18:41, Rich wrote:
>>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 03/12/2024 22:24, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What I find puzzling is how it appears in the GUI but isn't on the
>>>>>> actual machine file system
>>>>>
>>>>> funky characters in filename?
>>>>>
>>>>> ls -la | cat -v
>>>>
>>>> Nope. Still no sign
>>>>
>>>> I think some part of the GUI environment builds a cache, and its in
>>>> that, but not in the real world so to speak
>>>
>>> What is the GUI file browser program you use under Mate?
>>>
>> Caja
>>
>>> Many "GUI file browsers" have a tendancy to "combine" plural actual
>>> disk paths into the 'appearance' of a singular view (and "Desktop" is
>>> one of those 'views' that GUI dev's think need this miss-feature).
>>>
>>> So it is possible the file it is located somewhere other than
>>> ~/Desktop/ and the GUI is merging together that other location with the
>>> contents of the actual ~/Desktop/, and presenting the combination to
>>> you as "Desktop".
>>>
>> Hmm. Still doesn't say why it cant be deleted/found Even from the GUI
>> file manager
>
> Because it would be on another directory.
>
But if the GUI knows where it is the GUI should be able to delete it.

Rebooting X windows disappeared it, anyway

>
>>> Which would explain why it does not appear when you actually view
>>> ~/Desktop/ with ls from a terminal.
>>>
>>
>
>

--
I was brought up to believe that you should never give offence if you
can avoid it; the new culture tells us you should always take offence if
you can. There are now experts in the art of taking offence, indeed
whole academic subjects, such as 'gender studies', devoted to it.

Sir Roger Scruton

Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
From: Carlos E.R.
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2024 11:19 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: robin_listas@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2024 12:19:27 +0100
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On 2024-12-05 12:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 05/12/2024 10:34, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2024-12-05 08:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 04/12/2024 18:41, Rich wrote:
>>>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On 03/12/2024 22:24, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I find puzzling is how it appears in the GUI but isn't on the
>>>>>>> actual machine file system
>>>>>>
>>>>>> funky characters in filename?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ls -la | cat -v
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope. Still no sign
>>>>>
>>>>> I think some part of the GUI environment builds a cache, and its in
>>>>> that, but not in the real world so to speak
>>>>
>>>> What is the GUI file browser program you use under Mate?
>>>>
>>> Caja
>>>
>>>> Many "GUI file browsers" have a tendancy to "combine" plural actual
>>>> disk paths into the 'appearance' of a singular view (and "Desktop" is
>>>> one of those 'views' that GUI dev's think need this miss-feature).
>>>>
>>>> So it is possible the file it is located somewhere other than
>>>> ~/Desktop/ and the GUI is merging together that other location with the
>>>> contents of the actual ~/Desktop/, and presenting the combination to
>>>> you as "Desktop".
>>>>
>>> Hmm. Still doesn't say why it cant be deleted/found Even from the GUI
>>> file manager
>>
>> Because it would be on another directory.
>>
> But if the GUI knows where it is the GUI should be able to delete it.

The GUI is not a magician.

>
> Rebooting X windows disappeared it, anyway
>
>>
>>>> Which would explain why it does not appear when you actually view
>>>> ~/Desktop/ with ls from a terminal.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
From: The Natural Philosop
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: A little, after lunch
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2024 12:26 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2024 12:26:26 +0000
Organization: A little, after lunch
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On 05/12/2024 11:19, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2024-12-05 12:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 05/12/2024 10:34, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 2024-12-05 08:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 04/12/2024 18:41, Rich wrote:
>>>>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On 03/12/2024 22:24, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What I find puzzling is how it appears in the GUI but isn't on the
>>>>>>>> actual machine file system
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> funky characters in filename?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ls -la | cat -v
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope. Still no sign
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think some part of the GUI environment builds a cache, and its in
>>>>>> that, but not in the real world so to speak
>>>>>
>>>>> What is the GUI file browser program you use under Mate?
>>>>>
>>>> Caja
>>>>
>>>>> Many "GUI file browsers" have a tendancy to "combine" plural actual
>>>>> disk paths into the 'appearance' of a singular view (and "Desktop" is
>>>>> one of those 'views' that GUI dev's think need this miss-feature).
>>>>>
>>>>> So it is possible the file it is located somewhere other than
>>>>> ~/Desktop/ and the GUI is merging together that other location with
>>>>> the
>>>>> contents of the actual ~/Desktop/, and presenting the combination to
>>>>> you as "Desktop".
>>>>>
>>>> Hmm. Still doesn't say why it cant be deleted/found Even from the
>>>> GUI file manager
>>>
>>> Because it would be on another directory.
>>>
>> But if the GUI knows where it is the GUI should be able to delete it.
>
> The GUI is not a magician.

No, but it must have consistent rules. If Caja displays it Caja can
delete it and the same for the desktop manager as well

The fact is it is - or was - a ghost. It only existed as far as I can
tell in the GUI cache...

--
"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow witted
man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest
thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly
persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid
before him."

- Leo Tolstoy

Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
From: Carlos E.R.
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2024 12:41 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: robin_listas@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2024 13:41:29 +0100
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On 2024-12-05 13:26, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 05/12/2024 11:19, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2024-12-05 12:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 05/12/2024 10:34, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>> On 2024-12-05 08:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>> On 04/12/2024 18:41, Rich wrote:
>>>>>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 03/12/2024 22:24, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>>>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What I find puzzling is how it appears in the GUI but isn't on the
>>>>>>>>> actual machine file system
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> funky characters in filename?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ls -la | cat -v
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope. Still no sign
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think some part of the GUI environment builds a cache, and its in
>>>>>>> that, but not in the real world so to speak
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What is the GUI file browser program you use under Mate?
>>>>>>
>>>>> Caja
>>>>>
>>>>>> Many "GUI file browsers" have a tendancy to "combine" plural actual
>>>>>> disk paths into the 'appearance' of a singular view (and "Desktop" is
>>>>>> one of those 'views' that GUI dev's think need this miss-feature).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So it is possible the file it is located somewhere other than
>>>>>> ~/Desktop/ and the GUI is merging together that other location
>>>>>> with the
>>>>>> contents of the actual ~/Desktop/, and presenting the combination to
>>>>>> you as "Desktop".
>>>>>>
>>>>> Hmm. Still doesn't say why it cant be deleted/found Even from the
>>>>> GUI file manager
>>>>
>>>> Because it would be on another directory.
>>>>
>>> But if the GUI knows where it is the GUI should be able to delete it.
>>
>> The GUI is not a magician.
>
> No, but it must have consistent rules. If Caja displays it Caja can
> delete it and the same for the desktop manager as well
>
> The fact is it is - or was - a ghost. It only existed as far as I can
> tell in the GUI cache...

Sigh...

The GUI filemanager is just a filemanager, and follows filemanager
rules. It displays only ONE directory, not some desktop concoction made
of several structures and directories.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
From: The Natural Philosop
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: A little, after lunch
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2024 12:48 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12

Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2024 12:48:33 +0000
Organization: A little, after lunch
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On 05/12/2024 12:41, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2024-12-05 13:26, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 05/12/2024 11:19, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 2024-12-05 12:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 05/12/2024 10:34, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-12-05 08:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>> On 04/12/2024 18:41, Rich wrote:
>>>>>>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 03/12/2024 22:24, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>>>>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What I find puzzling is how it appears in the GUI but isn't on
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> actual machine file system
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> funky characters in filename?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ls -la | cat -v
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nope. Still no sign
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think some part of the GUI environment builds a cache, and its in
>>>>>>>> that, but not in the real world so to speak
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What is the GUI file browser program you use under Mate?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Caja
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Many "GUI file browsers" have a tendancy to "combine" plural actual
>>>>>>> disk paths into the 'appearance' of a singular view (and
>>>>>>> "Desktop" is
>>>>>>> one of those 'views' that GUI dev's think need this miss-feature).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So it is possible the file it is located somewhere other than
>>>>>>> ~/Desktop/ and the GUI is merging together that other location
>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>> contents of the actual ~/Desktop/, and presenting the combination to
>>>>>>> you as "Desktop".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hmm. Still doesn't say why it cant be deleted/found Even from the
>>>>>> GUI file manager
>>>>>
>>>>> Because it would be on another directory.
>>>>>
>>>> But if the GUI knows where it is the GUI should be able to delete it.
>>>
>>> The GUI is not a magician.
>>
>> No, but it must have consistent rules. If Caja displays it Caja can
>> delete it and the same for the desktop manager as well
>>
>> The fact is it is - or was - a ghost. It only existed as far as I can
>> tell in the GUI cache...
>
> Sigh...
>
> The GUI filemanager is just a filemanager, and follows filemanager
> rules. It displays only ONE directory, not some desktop concoction made
> of several structures and directories.
>

Well it (caja ) displayed this dead file, but it would not delete it..
So at some level you are in fact wrong.

Both the desktop AND the file manager displayed it and both said they
could not access or delete it.

????
--
“People believe certain stories because everyone important tells them,
and people tell those stories because everyone important believes them.
Indeed, when a conventional wisdom is at its fullest strength, one’s
agreement with that conventional wisdom becomes almost a litmus test of
one’s suitability to be taken seriously.”

Paul Krugman

Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
From: Andy Burns
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2024 13:12 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13

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From: usenet@andyburns.uk (Andy Burns)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2024 13:12:27 +0000
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The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> Both the desktop AND the file manager displayed it and both said they
> could not access or delete it.

If it happens again, can you view properties of a file, to see where it
really is?

Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
From: The Natural Philosop
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: A little, after lunch
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2024 13:56 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2024 13:56:55 +0000
Organization: A little, after lunch
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On 05/12/2024 13:12, Andy Burns wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> Both the desktop AND the file manager displayed it and both said they
>> could not access or delete it.
>
> If it happens again, can you view properties of a file, to see where it
> really is?

Nope. Couldn't do that either. Any attempt at anything gave a 'file not
found' message

--
If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
...I'd spend it on drink.

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)

Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
From: D
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2024 14:24 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14

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From: nospam@example.net (D)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2024 15:24:39 +0100
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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On Thu, 5 Dec 2024, Andy Burns wrote:

> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> Both the desktop AND the file manager displayed it and both said they could
>> not access or delete it.
>
> If it happens again, can you view properties of a file, to see where it
> really is?
>

Does lsof show anything? If some sinister program is using it, maybe it
would show in lsof?

Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
From: Richard Kettlewell
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: terraraq NNTP server
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2024 16:57 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12

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From: invalid@invalid.invalid (Richard Kettlewell)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2024 16:57:20 +0000
Organization: terraraq NNTP server
Message-ID: <wwvmshaxe33.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk>
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"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
> The GUI filemanager is just a filemanager, and follows filemanager
> rules. It displays only ONE directory, not some desktop concoction
> made of several structures and directories.

Union filesystems are a thing, thought I don’t know of any reason to
think one is involved here, and I’d (possibly naively) expected unlink
calls to propagate through them to the appropriate underlying
filesystem.

I don’t have a definitive explanation for the behavior seen. Some
guesswork:

* If a file is sometimes visible and sometimes not that may reflect it
being repeatedly deleted and re-created.

* If a file is visible in one view and not another than may reflect the
views actually being different. e.g. user error about what directory
they are looking at.

* Filesystem corruption of some kind might explain any kind of weird
behavior, though (at least when running ls) you might expect some kind
of error message. The kernel log would be likely to contain
diagnostics in this case.

* A file that’s something to do with an attack may be deliberately
hidden by the attack software, but perhaps in an inconsistent way
(attackers screw up too).

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
From: The Natural Philosop
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: A little, after lunch
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2024 18:02 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13

Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Odd behaviour?
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2024 18:02:26 +0000
Organization: A little, after lunch
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On 05/12/2024 16:57, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
>> The GUI filemanager is just a filemanager, and follows filemanager
>> rules. It displays only ONE directory, not some desktop concoction
>> made of several structures and directories.
>
> Union filesystems are a thing, thought I don’t know of any reason to
> think one is involved here, and I’d (possibly naively) expected unlink
> calls to propagate through them to the appropriate underlying
> filesystem.
>
> I don’t have a definitive explanation for the behavior seen. Some
> guesswork:
>
> * If a file is sometimes visible and sometimes not that may reflect it
> being repeatedly deleted and re-created.
>
No. It was solid at all times and absent at all times from the
respective voews

> * If a file is visible in one view and not another than may reflect the
> views actually being different. e.g. user error about what directory
> they are looking at.
>
I hardly think ~/Desktop is confusing

All the other files on the desktop were in there

> * Filesystem corruption of some kind might explain any kind of weird
> behavior, though (at least when running ls) you might expect some kind
> of error message. The kernel log would be likely to contain
> diagnostics in this case.
>
I might have a look

> * A file that’s something to do with an attack may be deliberately
> hidden by the attack software, but perhaps in an inconsistent way
> (attackers screw up too).
>

According to a brief Google that is a Windows temporary file. It may be
something to do with the windows VM deleting it but the desktop
retaining memory of it. Bit if it is, it's in a weird place.

--
Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the
gospel of envy.

Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

Winston Churchill

Subject	Author
Odd behaviour?	The Natural Philosopher
Re: Odd behaviour?	Carlos E.R.
Re: Odd behaviour?	The Natural Philosopher
Re: Odd behaviour?	Andy Burns
Re: Odd behaviour?	Woozy Song
Re: Odd behaviour?	The Natural Philosopher
Re: Odd behaviour?	The Natural Philosopher
Re: Odd behaviour?	Rich
Re: Odd behaviour?	The Natural Philosopher
Re: Odd behaviour?	Carlos E.R.
Re: Odd behaviour?	The Natural Philosopher
Re: Odd behaviour?	Carlos E.R.
Re: Odd behaviour?	The Natural Philosopher
Re: Odd behaviour?	Carlos E.R.
Re: Odd behaviour?	The Natural Philosopher
Re: Odd behaviour?	Andy Burns
Re: Odd behaviour?	The Natural Philosopher
Re: Odd behaviour?	D
Re: Odd behaviour?	Richard Kettlewell
Re: Odd behaviour?	The Natural Philosopher
Re: Odd behaviour?	Pancho
Re: Odd behaviour?	The Natural Philosopher
Re: Odd behaviour?	D
Re: Odd behaviour?	Carlos E.R.
Re: Odd behaviour?	D