Distro maintainers, and their lackey consumers, who bloat their GNU/Linux
distros with performance degrading security "features" should take note
of the latest exclamations of Linus Torvalds:

"Honestly, I'm pretty damn fed up with buggy hardware and completely theoretical
attacks that have never actually shown themselves to be used in practice."

https://linux.slashdot.org/story/24/10/21/1533228/linus-torvalds-growing-frustrated-by-buggy-hardware-theoretical-cpu-attacks

Tell 'em, Linus! Those paranoid freaks are ruining desktop computing!

To keep my workstation free of these ridiculous "mitigations" I have
to devote some slightly significant time -- and I don't like it.

At the very least, separate the desktop workstation from the public-facing
sever as these have COMPLETELY DIFFERENT "security" concerns.

I am sick of these "the sky is falling" security-obsessed idiots.

--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

On 10/21/2024 15:07, Lester Thorpe wrote:
> Distro maintainers, and their lackey consumers, who bloat their GNU/Linux
> distros with performance degrading security "features" should take note
> of the latest exclamations of Linus Torvalds:
>
> "Honestly, I'm pretty damn fed up with buggy hardware and completely theoretical
> attacks that have never actually shown themselves to be used in practice."
>
> https://linux.slashdot.org/story/24/10/21/1533228/linus-torvalds-growing-frustrated-by-buggy-hardware-theoretical-cpu-attacks
>
> Tell 'em, Linus! Those paranoid freaks are ruining desktop computing!
>
> To keep my workstation free of these ridiculous "mitigations" I have
> to devote some slightly significant time -- and I don't like it.
>
> At the very least, separate the desktop workstation from the public-facing
> sever as these have COMPLETELY DIFFERENT "security" concerns.
>
> I am sick of these "the sky is falling" security-obsessed idiots.
>
>

Original Post is here:
https://www.phoronix.com/news/Torvalds-Frustrated-Buggy-HW

--
Phillip Frabott
----------
- Adam: Is a void really a void if it returns?
- Jack: No, it's just nullspace at that point.
----------

On 10/22/24 07:44, Phillip Frabott wrote:
> On 10/21/2024 15:07, Lester Thorpe wrote:
>> Distro maintainers, and their lackey consumers, who bloat their GNU/Linux
>> distros with performance degrading security "features" should take note
>> of the latest exclamations of Linus Torvalds:
>>
>> "Honestly, I'm pretty damn fed up with buggy hardware and completely
>> theoretical
>> attacks that have never actually shown themselves to be used in
>> practice."
>>
>> https://linux.slashdot.org/story/24/10/21/1533228/linus-torvalds-
>> growing-frustrated-by-buggy-hardware-theoretical-cpu-attacks
>>
>> Tell 'em, Linus!  Those paranoid freaks are ruining desktop computing!
>>
>> To keep my workstation free of these ridiculous "mitigations" I have
>> to devote some slightly significant time -- and I don't like it.
>>
>> At the very least, separate the desktop workstation from the public-
>> facing
>> sever as these have COMPLETELY DIFFERENT "security" concerns.
>>
>> I am sick of these "the sky is falling" security-obsessed idiots.
>
> Original Post is here:
> https://www.phoronix.com/news/Torvalds-Frustrated-Buggy-HW

It's time for HW manufacturing (all development AND actual production)
to return to the USA/CXanada and Europe.

On 22/10/2024 13:32, bad sector wrote:
> On 10/22/24 07:44, Phillip Frabott wrote:
>> On 10/21/2024 15:07, Lester Thorpe wrote:
>>> Distro maintainers, and their lackey consumers, who bloat their
>>> GNU/Linux
>>> distros with performance degrading security "features" should take note
>>> of the latest exclamations of Linus Torvalds:
>>>
>>> "Honestly, I'm pretty damn fed up with buggy hardware and completely
>>> theoretical
>>> attacks that have never actually shown themselves to be used in
>>> practice."
>>>
>>> https://linux.slashdot.org/story/24/10/21/1533228/linus-torvalds-
>>> growing-frustrated-by-buggy-hardware-theoretical-cpu-attacks
>>>
>>> Tell 'em, Linus!  Those paranoid freaks are ruining desktop computing!
>>>
>>> To keep my workstation free of these ridiculous "mitigations" I have
>>> to devote some slightly significant time -- and I don't like it.
>>>
>>> At the very least, separate the desktop workstation from the public-
>>> facing
>>> sever as these have COMPLETELY DIFFERENT "security" concerns.
>>>
>>> I am sick of these "the sky is falling" security-obsessed idiots.
>>
>> Original Post is here:
>> https://www.phoronix.com/news/Torvalds-Frustrated-Buggy-HW
>
> It's time for HW manufacturing (all development AND actual production)
> to return to the USA/CXanada and Europe.
>
>
>
And then a raspberry Pi will cost $1000 instead of $100

--
"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."

― Confucius

On 10/22/2024 08:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 22/10/2024 13:32, bad sector wrote:
>> On 10/22/24 07:44, Phillip Frabott wrote:
>>> On 10/21/2024 15:07, Lester Thorpe wrote:
>>>> Distro maintainers, and their lackey consumers, who bloat their GNU/
>>>> Linux
>>>> distros with performance degrading security "features" should take note
>>>> of the latest exclamations of Linus Torvalds:
>>>>
>>>> "Honestly, I'm pretty damn fed up with buggy hardware and completely
>>>> theoretical
>>>> attacks that have never actually shown themselves to be used in
>>>> practice."
>>>>
>>>> https://linux.slashdot.org/story/24/10/21/1533228/linus-torvalds-
>>>> growing-frustrated-by-buggy-hardware-theoretical-cpu-attacks
>>>>
>>>> Tell 'em, Linus!  Those paranoid freaks are ruining desktop computing!
>>>>
>>>> To keep my workstation free of these ridiculous "mitigations" I have
>>>> to devote some slightly significant time -- and I don't like it.
>>>>
>>>> At the very least, separate the desktop workstation from the public-
>>>> facing
>>>> sever as these have COMPLETELY DIFFERENT "security" concerns.
>>>>
>>>> I am sick of these "the sky is falling" security-obsessed idiots.
>>>
>>> Original Post is here:
>>> https://www.phoronix.com/news/Torvalds-Frustrated-Buggy-HW
>>
>> It's time for HW manufacturing (all development AND actual production)
>> to return to the USA/CXanada and Europe.
>>
>>
>>
> And then a raspberry Pi will cost $1000 instead of $100
>
>

Not likely. The Cortex-A76 costs around $17.24 per chip when purchased
as a bulk of 10,000 (minimum order) And given that the entire Rpi5 only
costs $31~ to manufacture that means that China is charging a good $12
per Rpi5 unit in export tariff (general wholesale revenue is $15.40 and
retail revenue is $21.59) So the extra $5 per chip made in the US or
Europe/Canada would end up being cheaper once you remove the tariff cost
from China, which would effectively pay for the $3 increase per chip and
give a $10 discount. (after running through all the wholesale/retail
costs the consumer would likely save $5-$7 per Rpi5.)

And even if it didn't, I don't think consumers will panic if their $80
Rpi5 costs $83 instead. If you're that poor that you can't afford $3
then you really don't need an Rpi5 anyways. Use that money to buy food
and other necessities for your life. Be smart with your money.

It's easy enough the take apart the components on the Rpi5 and source
them to get the pricing. The CPU is the most expensive part and at
$17.24 you can figure out that the rest of it is pretty cheap. I mean
resistors, transistors and other diodes are pennies in bulk and the
other chips and interfaces aren't that expensive. I mean the Rpi5's
Wi-Fi chip is like $2 in bulk 10,000. So it's really not that expensive.

The $80~ is based on US pricing so it might be different elsewhere in
the world. But you get the picture.

--
Phillip Frabott
----------
- Adam: Is a void really a void if it returns?
- Jack: No, it's just nullspace at that point.
----------

On 2024-10-22 8:32 a.m., bad sector wrote:
> On 10/22/24 07:44, Phillip Frabott wrote:
>> On 10/21/2024 15:07, Lester Thorpe wrote:
>>> Distro maintainers, and their lackey consumers, who bloat their
>>> GNU/Linux
>>> distros with performance degrading security "features" should take note
>>> of the latest exclamations of Linus Torvalds:
>>>
>>> "Honestly, I'm pretty damn fed up with buggy hardware and completely
>>> theoretical
>>> attacks that have never actually shown themselves to be used in
>>> practice."
>>>
>>> https://linux.slashdot.org/story/24/10/21/1533228/linus-torvalds-
>>> growing-frustrated-by-buggy-hardware-theoretical-cpu-attacks
>>>
>>> Tell 'em, Linus!  Those paranoid freaks are ruining desktop computing!
>>>
>>> To keep my workstation free of these ridiculous "mitigations" I have
>>> to devote some slightly significant time -- and I don't like it.
>>>
>>> At the very least, separate the desktop workstation from the public-
>>> facing
>>> sever as these have COMPLETELY DIFFERENT "security" concerns.
>>>
>>> I am sick of these "the sky is falling" security-obsessed idiots.
>>
>> Original Post is here:
>> https://www.phoronix.com/news/Torvalds-Frustrated-Buggy-HW
>
> It's time for HW manufacturing (all development AND actual production)
> to return to the USA/CXanada and Europe.

Agreed. If the third-world masses want to come to the West then there is
no reason to keep sending labour there.

--
CrudeSausage
Paleoconservative, Catholic, Christ is king.

On 2024-10-22 8:34 a.m., The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 22/10/2024 13:32, bad sector wrote:
>> On 10/22/24 07:44, Phillip Frabott wrote:
>>> On 10/21/2024 15:07, Lester Thorpe wrote:
>>>> Distro maintainers, and their lackey consumers, who bloat their
>>>> GNU/Linux
>>>> distros with performance degrading security "features" should take note
>>>> of the latest exclamations of Linus Torvalds:
>>>>
>>>> "Honestly, I'm pretty damn fed up with buggy hardware and completely
>>>> theoretical
>>>> attacks that have never actually shown themselves to be used in
>>>> practice."
>>>>
>>>> https://linux.slashdot.org/story/24/10/21/1533228/linus-torvalds-
>>>> growing-frustrated-by-buggy-hardware-theoretical-cpu-attacks
>>>>
>>>> Tell 'em, Linus!  Those paranoid freaks are ruining desktop computing!
>>>>
>>>> To keep my workstation free of these ridiculous "mitigations" I have
>>>> to devote some slightly significant time -- and I don't like it.
>>>>
>>>> At the very least, separate the desktop workstation from the public-
>>>> facing
>>>> sever as these have COMPLETELY DIFFERENT "security" concerns.
>>>>
>>>> I am sick of these "the sky is falling" security-obsessed idiots.
>>>
>>> Original Post is here:
>>> https://www.phoronix.com/news/Torvalds-Frustrated-Buggy-HW
>>
>> It's time for HW manufacturing (all development AND actual production)
>> to return to the USA/CXanada and Europe.
>>
>>
>>
> And then a raspberry Pi will cost $1000 instead of $100

So you're in favour of slave labour because you can get your hobby
computer for less?

--
CrudeSausage
Paleoconservative, Catholic, Christ is king.

On 22/10/2024 14:18, CrudeSausage wrote:
> On 2024-10-22 8:34 a.m., The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 22/10/2024 13:32, bad sector wrote:
>>> On 10/22/24 07:44, Phillip Frabott wrote:
>>>> On 10/21/2024 15:07, Lester Thorpe wrote:
>>>>> Distro maintainers, and their lackey consumers, who bloat their
>>>>> GNU/Linux
>>>>> distros with performance degrading security "features" should take
>>>>> note
>>>>> of the latest exclamations of Linus Torvalds:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Honestly, I'm pretty damn fed up with buggy hardware and
>>>>> completely theoretical
>>>>> attacks that have never actually shown themselves to be used in
>>>>> practice."
>>>>>
>>>>> https://linux.slashdot.org/story/24/10/21/1533228/linus-torvalds-
>>>>> growing-frustrated-by-buggy-hardware-theoretical-cpu-attacks
>>>>>
>>>>> Tell 'em, Linus!  Those paranoid freaks are ruining desktop computing!
>>>>>
>>>>> To keep my workstation free of these ridiculous "mitigations" I have
>>>>> to devote some slightly significant time -- and I don't like it.
>>>>>
>>>>> At the very least, separate the desktop workstation from the
>>>>> public- facing
>>>>> sever as these have COMPLETELY DIFFERENT "security" concerns.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am sick of these "the sky is falling" security-obsessed idiots.
>>>>
>>>> Original Post is here:
>>>> https://www.phoronix.com/news/Torvalds-Frustrated-Buggy-HW
>>>
>>> It's time for HW manufacturing (all development AND actual
>>> production) to return to the USA/CXanada and Europe.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> And then a raspberry Pi will cost $1000 instead of $100
>
> So you're in favour of slave labour because you can get your hobby
> computer for less?
>
well a lot of Muricans seem to be in favour of letting Putin destroy
Ukraine so tthey pay 21c a year less in income tax.
--
“The fundamental cause of the trouble in the modern world today is that
the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt."

- Bertrand Russell

followups trimmed to comp.os.linux.misc

In comp.os.linux.misc bad sector <forgetski@_invalid.net> wrote:
<snip>
>
> It's time for HW manufacturing (all development AND actual
> production) to return to the USA/CXanada and Europe.

That will not fix anything, the real fix is somehow these
companies need to stop chasing short-term profits that Wall
Street demands. This issue happens when testing is cut
short and if an issue is found, the hardware gets released
anyway because "Wall Street" and profits and bonuses.

--
[t]csh(1) - "An elegant shell, for a more... civilized age."
- Paraphrasing Star Wars

On 2024-10-22 9:25 a.m., The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 22/10/2024 14:18, CrudeSausage wrote:
>> On 2024-10-22 8:34 a.m., The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 22/10/2024 13:32, bad sector wrote:
>>>> On 10/22/24 07:44, Phillip Frabott wrote:
>>>>> On 10/21/2024 15:07, Lester Thorpe wrote:
>>>>>> Distro maintainers, and their lackey consumers, who bloat their
>>>>>> GNU/Linux
>>>>>> distros with performance degrading security "features" should take
>>>>>> note
>>>>>> of the latest exclamations of Linus Torvalds:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Honestly, I'm pretty damn fed up with buggy hardware and
>>>>>> completely theoretical
>>>>>> attacks that have never actually shown themselves to be used in
>>>>>> practice."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://linux.slashdot.org/story/24/10/21/1533228/linus-torvalds-
>>>>>> growing-frustrated-by-buggy-hardware-theoretical-cpu-attacks
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tell 'em, Linus!  Those paranoid freaks are ruining desktop
>>>>>> computing!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To keep my workstation free of these ridiculous "mitigations" I have
>>>>>> to devote some slightly significant time -- and I don't like it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At the very least, separate the desktop workstation from the
>>>>>> public- facing
>>>>>> sever as these have COMPLETELY DIFFERENT "security" concerns.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am sick of these "the sky is falling" security-obsessed idiots.
>>>>>
>>>>> Original Post is here:
>>>>> https://www.phoronix.com/news/Torvalds-Frustrated-Buggy-HW
>>>>
>>>> It's time for HW manufacturing (all development AND actual
>>>> production) to return to the USA/CXanada and Europe.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> And then a raspberry Pi will cost $1000 instead of $100
>>
>> So you're in favour of slave labour because you can get your hobby
>> computer for less?
>>
> well a lot of Muricans seem to be in favour of letting Putin destroy
> Ukraine  so tthey pay 21c a year less in income tax.

Funny enough, despite being Polish and knowing Russia's history with my
ancestral country, I too think that he should go ahead and demolish
Ukraine. For one, he has a right to defend his borders and Ukraine's
geography is an important part of that. Second, Ukraine's contested
regions already decided that they wanted to be a part of Russia but both
Ukraine and its American allies decided that democracy didn't matter.
Third, Ukraine remains a corrupt country which allows Western
politicians to launder their fortunes. That last reason alone is a good
reason to get rid of the administration.

I truly believe that anyone defending Zelensky and American involvement
in the war is easily manipulated by propaganda.

--
CrudeSausage
Paleoconservative, Catholic, Christ is king.

On 22/10/2024 15:05, John McCue wrote:
> followups trimmed to comp.os.linux.misc
>
> In comp.os.linux.misc bad sector <forgetski@_invalid.net> wrote:
> <snip>
>>
>> It's time for HW manufacturing (all development AND actual
>> production) to return to the USA/CXanada and Europe.
>
> That will not fix anything, the real fix is somehow these
> companies need to stop chasing short-term profits that Wall
> Street demands. This issue happens when testing is cut
> short and if an issue is found, the hardware gets released
> anyway because "Wall Street" and profits and bonuses.
>

There is always a tradeoff with any new technology. You can test it for
30 years or you can use it and hope...

--
"When one man dies it's a tragedy. When thousands die it's statistics."

Josef Stalin

On Tue, 22 Oct 2024 08:32:13 -0400, bad sector wrote:

Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
> It's time for HW manufacturing (all development AND actual production)
> to return to the USA/CXanada and Europe.

Lines: 11
It went away in the first place because it could not be done cost-
effectively in those “first-world” countries -- basic free-market
capitalism in action.

Message-ID: <vf931g$1l20u$4@dont-email.me>
To bring it back would require Government subsidies, or forcing customers
to pay more. Which would you prefer?
. References: <pan$26699$6602b79b$4abe425a$df32a923@gnu.rocks>
<vf837h$1fccv$1@dont-email.me>
<VVidnZTCupXQBor6nZ2dnZfqn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com>

In comp.os.linux.misc The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 22/10/2024 13:32, bad sector wrote:
>> It's time for HW manufacturing (all development AND actual production)
>> to return to the USA/CXanada and Europe.
>>
> And then a raspberry Pi will cost $1000 instead of $100

You've somehow missed all their publicity about making Raspberry
Pis in the UK at Sony's factory in Wales?

https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2023/how-raspberry-pis-are-made-factory-tour

Granted not "all" are made in the UK (though that article claims
it's "the factory where almost every Raspberry Pi has been made"),
but it obviously isn't driving the price up that much, especially
as it includes their $5 RPi Zero boards.

But Raspberry Pi is clearly an outlier, compared to all the other
products made in China. Not needing to do assembly of their boards
in a case probably helps because that's where things get less
automated.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

On 10/22/24 08:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 22/10/2024 13:32, bad sector wrote:
>> On 10/22/24 07:44, Phillip Frabott wrote:
>>> On 10/21/2024 15:07, Lester Thorpe wrote:
>>>> Distro maintainers, and their lackey consumers, who bloat their GNU/
>>>> Linux
>>>> distros with performance degrading security "features" should take note
>>>> of the latest exclamations of Linus Torvalds:
>>>>
>>>> "Honestly, I'm pretty damn fed up with buggy hardware and completely
>>>> theoretical
>>>> attacks that have never actually shown themselves to be used in
>>>> practice."
>>>>
>>>> https://linux.slashdot.org/story/24/10/21/1533228/linus-torvalds-
>>>> growing-frustrated-by-buggy-hardware-theoretical-cpu-attacks
>>>>
>>>> Tell 'em, Linus!  Those paranoid freaks are ruining desktop computing!
>>>>
>>>> To keep my workstation free of these ridiculous "mitigations" I have
>>>> to devote some slightly significant time -- and I don't like it.
>>>>
>>>> At the very least, separate the desktop workstation from the public-
>>>> facing
>>>> sever as these have COMPLETELY DIFFERENT "security" concerns.
>>>>
>>>> I am sick of these "the sky is falling" security-obsessed idiots.
>>>
>>> Original Post is here:
>>> https://www.phoronix.com/news/Torvalds-Frustrated-Buggy-HW
>>
>> It's time for HW manufacturing (all development AND actual production)
>> to return to the USA/CXanada and Europe.
>>
> And then a raspberry Pi will cost $1000 instead of $100

The way I see it having stuff made 'over there' was OK when a piece of
printed circuit came on boat for a total of $5, now a motherboard or a
gpu, both full of bugs (and documentation so awful that a 3rd grader
would be ashamed enough of it to start wearing his pants on his head) is
$1000 up. That's a game changer if you ask me! The bit-coin miners also
had to do with it but the manufacturers may next regret having been too
greedy.

On 10/22/24 10:51, CrudeSausage wrote:
> On 2024-10-22 9:25 a.m., The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 22/10/2024 14:18, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>> On 2024-10-22 8:34 a.m., The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 22/10/2024 13:32, bad sector wrote:
>>>>> On 10/22/24 07:44, Phillip Frabott wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/21/2024 15:07, Lester Thorpe wrote:
>>>>>>> Distro maintainers, and their lackey consumers, who bloat their
>>>>>>> GNU/Linux
>>>>>>> distros with performance degrading security "features" should
>>>>>>> take note
>>>>>>> of the latest exclamations of Linus Torvalds:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Honestly, I'm pretty damn fed up with buggy hardware and
>>>>>>> completely theoretical
>>>>>>> attacks that have never actually shown themselves to be used in
>>>>>>> practice."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://linux.slashdot.org/story/24/10/21/1533228/linus-torvalds-
>>>>>>> growing-frustrated-by-buggy-hardware-theoretical-cpu-attacks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tell 'em, Linus!  Those paranoid freaks are ruining desktop
>>>>>>> computing!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To keep my workstation free of these ridiculous "mitigations" I have
>>>>>>> to devote some slightly significant time -- and I don't like it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At the very least, separate the desktop workstation from the
>>>>>>> public- facing
>>>>>>> sever as these have COMPLETELY DIFFERENT "security" concerns.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am sick of these "the sky is falling" security-obsessed idiots.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Original Post is here:
>>>>>> https://www.phoronix.com/news/Torvalds-Frustrated-Buggy-HW
>>>>>
>>>>> It's time for HW manufacturing (all development AND actual
>>>>> production) to return to the USA/CXanada and Europe.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> And then a raspberry Pi will cost $1000 instead of $100
>>>
>>> So you're in favour of slave labour because you can get your hobby
>>> computer for less?
>>>
>> well a lot of Muricans seem to be in favour of letting Putin destroy
>> Ukraine  so tthey pay 21c a year less in income tax.
>
> Funny enough, despite being Polish

hahaha! I shudda knowed from 'crudesausage' :-)))

> and knowing Russia's history with my
> ancestral country, I too think that he should go ahead and demolish
> Ukraine. For one, he has a right to defend his borders and Ukraine's
> geography is an important part of that. Second, Ukraine's contested
> regions already decided that they wanted to be a part of Russia but both
> Ukraine and its American allies decided that democracy didn't matter.
> Third, Ukraine remains a corrupt country which allows Western
> politicians to launder their fortunes. That last reason alone is a good
> reason to get rid of the administration.
>
> I truly believe that anyone defending Zelensky and American involvement
> in the war is easily manipulated by propaganda.

EVERYONE is manipulated 7/24, Smolensk was a tragic story but there are
many others like it involving various players.

<OT rant>

Right now Americans are going through the wringer having to elect either
a bolshewoke or a flunky while big-money makes sure that polarization
there too leaves only a very easily manipulated 1% to swing at will come
the crew-change, that oh so democratic-moment when they throw either a
red or a blue bone to the dogs to keep them quiet. As we turn into the
last stretch and the *entire planet* is glued to the TV sets and the US
elections, that same big-money is rolling on the floor crapping its
pants in a laughing fit.

</rant>

On 10/22/24 16:47, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Oct 2024 08:32:13 -0400, bad sector wrote:
>
>> It's time for HW manufacturing (all development AND actual production)
>> to return to the USA/CXanada and Europe.
>
> It went away in the first place because it could not be done cost-
> effectively in those “first-world” countries -- basic free-market
> capitalism in action.

So? Free-market capitalism, especially transborder, isn't everyone's cup
of tea.

> To bring it back would require Government subsidies, or forcing customers
> to pay more. Which would you prefer?

Nothing wrong with subsidies, I pay a lot more tax than some others but
no-one starves on the street around me, the sick get free surgery, etc.
The role of government is to be the bouncer or the black-ops gangster
who does WHATEVER is in the interest of *its* tax paying citizens. None
of this transcends state borders.

On 10/22/24 10:05, John McCue wrote:
> followups trimmed to comp.os.linux.misc
>
> In comp.os.linux.misc bad sector <forgetski@_invalid.net> wrote:
> <snip>
>>
>> It's time for HW manufacturing (all development AND actual
>> production) to return to the USA/CXanada and Europe.
>
> That will not fix anything, the real fix is somehow these
> companies need to stop chasing short-term profits that Wall
> Street demands. This issue happens when testing is cut
> short and if an issue is found, the hardware gets released
> anyway because "Wall Street" and profits and bonuses.

I went through 3 imported Durgod keyboards in a short time (a few years)
for an approximate total cost of about $400cad (last prices around 150).
Just ordered a US made IBM clacker 'rebirth' for $200cad. Do the math
(my last clacker lasted so long that it's the only keyboard I remember
from the 90's).

On 22/10/2024 14:18, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
> So you're in favour of slave labour because you can get your hobby
> computer for less?
>

That's what undocumented migrants are for. Just use them as slaves and
you'll find they will stop coming to America, the land of opportunities
and welfare.

Frankly, the only way to solve the migrants coming to USA or Europe is
to bring back slavery. Slavery version 2.0 where they come to work
willingly without any coercion or shackles.

On 2024-10-22 4:47 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Oct 2024 08:32:13 -0400, bad sector wrote:
>
>> It's time for HW manufacturing (all development AND actual production)
>> to return to the USA/CXanada and Europe.
>
> It went away in the first place because it could not be done cost-
> effectively in those “first-world” countries -- basic free-market
> capitalism in action.
>
> To bring it back would require Government subsidies, or forcing customers
> to pay more. Which would you prefer?

Considering the largest market for those products is the West,
particularly the United States, it would be possible to bring back
manufacturing by blocking sales of products that don't have a presence
in North America. They might not return all their manufacturing to the
West, but whatever is sold here would have to be made here. You can sell
it as an "environmental measure," explaining that you're trying avoid
intercontinental freight.

--
CrudeSausage
Paleoconservative, Catholic, Christ is king.

On 2024-10-22 6:50 p.m., Donald Trump wrote:
> On 22/10/2024 14:18, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>> So you're in favour of slave labour because you can get your hobby
>> computer for less?
>>
>
> That's what undocumented migrants are for.

Illegal aliens. Anyone who uses the above term does not deserve to be read.

< snip >

--
CrudeSausage
Paleoconservative, Catholic, Christ is king.

On Tue, 22 Oct 2024 19:36:08 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

> On 2024-10-22 4:47 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Tue, 22 Oct 2024 08:32:13 -0400, bad sector wrote:
>>
>>> It's time for HW manufacturing (all development AND actual production)
>>> to return to the USA/CXanada and Europe.
>>
>> It went away in the first place because it could not be done cost-
>> effectively in those “first-world” countries -- basic free-market
>> capitalism in action.
>>
>> To bring it back would require Government subsidies, or forcing
>> customers to pay more. Which would you prefer?
>
> Considering the largest market for those products is the West,
> particularly the United States, it would be possible to bring back
> manufacturing by blocking sales of products that don't have a presence
> in North America.

Easy way around that: set up an empty office like those in East Texas to
get jurisdiction under the patent-friendly courts there. There’s your
“presence”. Business continues from overseas as usual.

What’s your next move?

On 23 Oct 2024 06:48:26 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

> But Raspberry Pi is clearly an outlier ...

In other words, it’s not a copycat product. It’s innovative.

I think the predominant assumption in this thread is that the assembly
lines moved back to the West will be making exactly the same products as
the ones they want to replace.

On Tue, 22 Oct 2024 09:18:00 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

> So you're in favour of slave labour because you can get your hobby
> computer for less?

Strange. I thought you wanted to take jobs away from those running those
manufacturing lines in the third world. Now you’re trying to sympathize
with them as “slave labour”?

On Tue, 22 Oct 2024 19:49:24 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

> Illegal aliens.

Declaring somebody “illegal” ... I wonder what that means? That they have
no legal right to exist?

(They used to do that--declaring somebody “illegal”--in Apartheid South
Africa.)

On 2024-10-22 7:57 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Oct 2024 19:36:08 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> On 2024-10-22 4:47 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> On Tue, 22 Oct 2024 08:32:13 -0400, bad sector wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's time for HW manufacturing (all development AND actual production)
>>>> to return to the USA/CXanada and Europe.
>>>
>>> It went away in the first place because it could not be done cost-
>>> effectively in those “first-world” countries -- basic free-market
>>> capitalism in action.
>>>
>>> To bring it back would require Government subsidies, or forcing
>>> customers to pay more. Which would you prefer?
>>
>> Considering the largest market for those products is the West,
>> particularly the United States, it would be possible to bring back
>> manufacturing by blocking sales of products that don't have a presence
>> in North America.
>
> Easy way around that: set up an empty office like those in East Texas to
> get jurisdiction under the patent-friendly courts there. There’s your
> “presence”. Business continues from overseas as usual.
>
> What’s your next move?

A manufacturing presence. The company would have to produce whatever it
sells on the continent it is selling to. I just re-read what I wrote and
what I meant was very clear.

--
CrudeSausage
Paleoconservative, Catholic, Christ is king.