Note: This post is for GNU/Linux experts only. If you are just another
distro lackey then, please, fuck off.

Today, I invoked the Pan newsreader. It would not fucking scroll
with the mouse wheel. What the friggin' fuck?

Also, some other GUI programs would not scroll.

I've had this problem before, and, sure enough, it was libinput,
a product of GNOME/Freedesktop that was the fault.

Once again, those incompetent assholes changed their device numbers:

xinput list-props 8
....
libinput Send Events Modes Available (270): 1, 0
libinput Send Events Mode Enabled (271): 0, 0
libinput Send Events Mode Enabled Default (272): 0, 0
....

They changed the "Send Events Mode Enabled" from 269 to 271.

What the fuck for? Only those incompetent assholes will know.

In my X/FVWM3 boot I have to change it to:

xinput --set-prop 8 271 1 0

Why no fucking advanced notice? Only those incompetent assholes will know.

GNOME/Freedesktop are the scourge of GNU/Linux. Those bastards are
just as bad as SYSTEMD -- and that's bad!

But the stupified distro lackey won't even bat an eye. These useless
creeps will just use their Ubuntu/Mint/Whatever without an inkling
into the degeneration wrought by these incompetent assholes.

--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:

>This post is for GNU/Linux experts only. If you are just another
>distro lackey then, please, fuck off.

"Distro lackeys" are just trying to get the most out of a modern
machine, dummy. LFS/Gentoo don't really offer that, unless one takes
some initiative to assemble it. You have failed, miserably, to do
anything approaching that.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On Mon, 07 Oct 2024 21:56:48 +0000, Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote in
<pan$bad8$b677bed3$aca0e5e2$5bb3eab5@linux.rocks>:

> xinput --set-prop 8 271 1 0

As I wrote elsewhere: you're doing it wrong.

$ cat game_kbd.sh
#!/bin/bash

xinput set-prop 'ASUF1204:00 2808:0104 Touchpad' \
'libinput Disable While Typing Enabled' 0
exit $?

Rather than using the numbers, use the string
constants -- they are less likely to change.

--
-v ASUS TUF Dash F15 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3060 Mobile
OS: Linux 5.15.0-122-lowlatency Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 15.9G
"Who is "General Failure" and why is he reading my disk?"

vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote at 03:01 this Tuesday (GMT):
> On Mon, 07 Oct 2024 21:56:48 +0000, Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote in
><pan$bad8$b677bed3$aca0e5e2$5bb3eab5@linux.rocks>:
>
>> xinput --set-prop 8 271 1 0
>
> As I wrote elsewhere: you're doing it wrong.
>
> $ cat game_kbd.sh
> #!/bin/bash
>
> xinput set-prop 'ASUF1204:00 2808:0104 Touchpad' \
> 'libinput Disable While Typing Enabled' 0
> exit $?
>
> Rather than using the numbers, use the string
> constants -- they are less likely to change.

Good to know, thanks. If only the monitor id's would stop changing..
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On Tue, 8 Oct 2024 19:40:04 -0000 (UTC)
candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid>
wrote:

> Good to know, thanks. If only the monitor id's would stop changing..
I've been switching to FreeBSD for most of my computers (laptop and
servers) because of the systemd assumption debacle and updates bring
frivolous changes for the sake of change that break things.

If these sorts of things upset you that much (which is reasonable);
perhaps consider stop using software that has too much redhat
influence. Gnome stuff being funded by redhat, not just systemd. If you
follow the money on a lot of the stuff that has been plaguing the Linux
ecosystem these last couple of years you'll find in a lot of cases it
pointing back to redhat.

Part of the problem (and feature) of the Linux ecosystem is that every
system component is made by a completely different person/team/company
with different, often conflicting design goals.

You can get away from the FreeDesktop stuff by stop using desktop
environments and learn how to configure a compact window manager that
doesn't rely on FreeDesktop stuff. Things like suckless's DWM is fairly
capable and written in less then 2000 lines of C. You can modify it
yourself to add keybindings for things like media buttons and whatnot
without relying on freedesktop.

Bottom line is, you can get X11/*nix from places other then Linux
nowadays.

On Tue, 8 Oct 2024 18:54:41 -0500, tom wrote:

>
> I've been switching to FreeBSD for most of my computers (laptop and
> servers) because of the systemd assumption debacle and updates bring
> frivolous changes for the sake of change that break things.
>

I have been considering that move as well, but I have so much invested
in GNU/Linux already (I have essentially created my own distro) that
it may not be the best option at the moment.

But if the dominance of GNU/Linux by a few parties continues to
grow then I will certainly adopt FreeBSD.

The best that could happen would be for GNU to complete its own
HURD OS, but that dream is a long way off.

>
> If these sorts of things upset you that much (which is reasonable);
> perhaps consider stop using software that has too much redhat
> influence.
>

I don't use GNOME but rather only a simple window manager, FVWM3.

The problem here is that libinput, a product of GNOME/Freedesktop/
RedHat, has become the default input driver for X. There is no
way for anyone to avoid it.

It all can be traced back to static device nodes, which are indisputably
the most efficient way to configure a personal workstation.

RedHat wanted to eliminate static nodes because they are a big headache
for distro builders who needed to include thousands of nodes even though
only a handful were actually used on a particular system. They decided
to implement dynamic nodes that are created during boot. Eventually
this "evolved" over time into systemd and now libinput.

>
> Part of the problem (and feature) of the Linux ecosystem is that every
> system component is made by a completely different person/team/company
> with different, often conflicting design goals.
>

Yes, it is a feature, and a good one at that.

But RedHat, and its lackey Poettering, see it as a serious problem
for them because such fragmentation will deter developers and thus
reduce potential profits. They are pushing to make GNU/Linux more
centralized and to eliminate choice. This is the entire raison d'etre
for systemd and libinput.

>
> You can get away from the FreeDesktop stuff by stop using desktop
> environments and learn how to configure a compact window manager that
> doesn't rely on FreeDesktop stuff.
>

As I indicated above, it is now quite impossible to avoid GNOME/Freedesktop
stuff.

The problem will even get worse in the future. Many alternative window
managers, such as FVWM3, will only operate with X. But RedHat, and all
their distro lackeys, are strongly pushing Wayland, and furthermore,
the major graphical toolkits, like GTK+, are strongly considering ending
their support for X. This means that dozens of very useful and attractive
window managers will suddenly become totally obsolete.

When I first began using GNU/Linux I was tremendously elated over what
I believed was a truly free (as in freedom) OS that would persist forever.
But now I can only hope to convey my distress over what is clearly a
degeneration of this freedom.

--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

In comp.os.linux.misc Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:
> But RedHat, and its lackey Poettering,

You should note that the lackey Poettering is now employed by his
original handler when he was employed by RedHat: Microsoft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennart_Poettering

Lennart Poettering (born 15 October 1980) is a German software
engineer working for Microsoft ...

On Wed, 9 Oct 2024 10:13:13 -0400, Phillip Frabott wrote:

>
> One of the downsides of the FSF movement and GPL was the unintentional
> directive that pure freedom would cause, the freedom to control others
> and the freedom to push/force software. The FSF may not have intended
> that to be the thing, but it's a freedom given under the 4 pillars.
> That's why I have been vocal that the FSF needs to change some things,
> but their ego and arrogance stops them from doing so. Sadly, I think the
> FSF will not be around in the next 2 decades. Time will tell (and it
> will be a shame if I'm right) but there is too many loopholes that allow
> these large companies to take over. What used to protect users, now
> protects businesses. But that's just my take.
>

The Linux distros are also very much to blame as the majority will follow
the trends without question.

Only Gentoo offers true choice, as does the long-running Linux From
Scratch.

But it is not enough to just whine on Usenet. One must get actively involved
in the FSF and other FOSS projects and attempt to enforce the freedom
concept.

I must admit that I am guilty in not taking this active approach.

However, from what I have experienced, taking a stand against the loss
of freedom is likely to be a very uphill battle.

--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

tom <tom@invalid.tld> wrote at 23:54 this Tuesday (GMT):
> On Tue, 8 Oct 2024 19:40:04 -0000 (UTC)
> candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid>
> wrote:
>
>> Good to know, thanks. If only the monitor id's would stop changing..
> I've been switching to FreeBSD for most of my computers (laptop and
> servers) because of the systemd assumption debacle and updates bring
> frivolous changes for the sake of change that break things.
>
> If these sorts of things upset you that much (which is reasonable);
> perhaps consider stop using software that has too much redhat
> influence. Gnome stuff being funded by redhat, not just systemd. If you
> follow the money on a lot of the stuff that has been plaguing the Linux
> ecosystem these last couple of years you'll find in a lot of cases it
> pointing back to redhat.
>
> Part of the problem (and feature) of the Linux ecosystem is that every
> system component is made by a completely different person/team/company
> with different, often conflicting design goals.
>
> You can get away from the FreeDesktop stuff by stop using desktop
> environments and learn how to configure a compact window manager that
> doesn't rely on FreeDesktop stuff. Things like suckless's DWM is fairly
> capable and written in less then 2000 lines of C. You can modify it
> yourself to add keybindings for things like media buttons and whatnot
> without relying on freedesktop.
>
> Bottom line is, you can get X11/*nix from places other then Linux
> nowadays.

I don't think its a FreeDesktop issue. Xrandr keeps reporting slightly
different names for my monitors and it breaks my scripts.
Like, it keeps switching between eDP-1 and eDP1 (without a dash)
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

Rich wrote this post; take it under advisement:

> In comp.os.linux.misc Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:
>> But RedHat, and its lackey Poettering,
>
> You should note that the lackey Poettering is now employed by his
> original handler when he was employed by RedHat: Microsoft.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennart_Poettering
>
> Lennart Poettering (born 15 October 1980) is a German software
> engineer working for Microsoft ...

!!!!

Shades of Miguel de Icaza!

And in 2017, Poettering received the Pwnie Award for Lamest Vendor Response
to vulnerabilities reported in systemd.

Still, I appreciate systemd for the speed of booting.

--
"Don't talk to me about disclaimers! I invented disclaimers!"
-- The Censored Hacker

candycanearter07 wrote this post; take it under advisement:

> <brevsnip>
>
> I don't think its a FreeDesktop issue. Xrandr keeps reporting slightly
> different names for my monitors and it breaks my scripts.
> Like, it keeps switching between eDP-1 and eDP1 (without a dash)

That is odd! I've never experienced that. I hope you can track that down.

--
interlard - vt., to intersperse; diversify
-- Webster's New World Dictionary Of The American Language

Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>In comp.os.linux.misc Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:
>> But RedHat, and its lackey Poettering,
>
>You should note that the lackey Poettering is now employed by his
>original handler when he was employed by RedHat: Microsoft.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennart_Poettering
>
> Lennart Poettering (born 15 October 1980) is a German software
> engineer working for Microsoft ...

Microsoft is putting an awful lot of money into Linux. I consider that
a good thing. There are companies that deserve lots of more hate than
MS does.

Greetings
Marc
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402

Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote at 20:27 this Wednesday (GMT):
> candycanearter07 wrote this post; take it under advisement:
>
>> <brevsnip>
>>
>> I don't think its a FreeDesktop issue. Xrandr keeps reporting slightly
>> different names for my monitors and it breaks my scripts.
>> Like, it keeps switching between eDP-1 and eDP1 (without a dash)
>
> That is odd! I've never experienced that. I hope you can track that down.

Hopefully. On the other hand, I'm not using those xrandr scripts for a
while, so it's not a pressing issue.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On Thu, 10 Oct 2024 11:08:36 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:

> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>>In comp.os.linux.misc Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:
>>> But RedHat, and its lackey Poettering,
>>
>>You should note that the lackey Poettering is now employed by his
>>original handler when he was employed by RedHat: Microsoft.
>>
>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennart_Poettering
>>
>> Lennart Poettering (born 15 October 1980) is a German software
>> engineer working for Microsoft ...
>
> Microsoft is putting an awful lot of money into Linux. I consider that a
> good thing. There are companies that deserve lots of more hate than MS
> does.

Replacing Ballmer with Nadella seems to have had quite an impact. Often
replacing a CEO is 'meet the new boss, same as the old boss'.

On 10/10/2024 14:54, rbowman wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Oct 2024 11:08:36 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
>
>> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>>> In comp.os.linux.misc Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:
>>>> But RedHat, and its lackey Poettering,
>>>
>>> You should note that the lackey Poettering is now employed by his
>>> original handler when he was employed by RedHat: Microsoft.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennart_Poettering
>>>
>>> Lennart Poettering (born 15 October 1980) is a German software
>>> engineer working for Microsoft ...
>>
>> Microsoft is putting an awful lot of money into Linux. I consider that a
>> good thing. There are companies that deserve lots of more hate than MS
>> does.
>
> Replacing Ballmer with Nadella seems to have had quite an impact. Often
> replacing a CEO is 'meet the new boss, same as the old boss'.
>

I'd disagree. I think Nadella is more like Gates then Ballmer. When was
the last time you saw Nadella run on the stage chanting and raving like
Ballmer did? :-P

--
Phillip Frabott
----------
- Adam: Is a void really a void if it returns?
- Jack: No, it's just nullspace at that point.
----------

Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> wrote:
> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>>In comp.os.linux.misc Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:
>>> But RedHat, and its lackey Poettering,
>>
>>You should note that the lackey Poettering is now employed by his
>>original handler when he was employed by RedHat: Microsoft.
>>
>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennart_Poettering
>>
>> Lennart Poettering (born 15 October 1980) is a German software
>> engineer working for Microsoft ...
>
> Microsoft is putting an awful lot of money into Linux. I consider that
> a good thing.

I would prefer a free OS funded by lots of organisations putting a
little money in, rather than relying on a few companies that invest
a lot and whose individual opinions therefore matter. But beggers
can't be choosers (although I can still choose old versions of
Linux, like I'm using now, for some things).

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

On Thu, 10 Oct 2024 16:10:04 -0400, Phillip Frabott wrote:

>> Replacing Ballmer with Nadella seems to have had quite an impact. Often
>> replacing a CEO is 'meet the new boss, same as the old boss'.
>>
>>
> I'd disagree. I think Nadella is more like Gates then Ballmer. When was
> the last time you saw Nadella run on the stage chanting and raving like
> Ballmer did? :-P

I think we agree but I phrased my remark badly. Nadella is like having an
adult running the company. I'm impressed that he managed to turn the
corporate culture around. Many times the 'new broom' has little effect.

I don't know how much of that is from Nadella's personal background.
Indian business leaders seem to have a more collaborative, longer term
outlook than happens in the US. Ratan Tata was a good example.

I'm skeptical about their AI efforts but at this point I think it's
something they have to do to stay in the game. I do hope the ARM
experiment works out better than the previous attempt.

not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) wrote:
>I would prefer a free OS funded by lots of organisations putting a
>little money in, rather than relying on a few companies that invest
>a lot and whose individual opinions therefore matter. But beggers
>can't be choosers (although I can still choose old versions of
>Linux, like I'm using now, for some things).

So you're doing your own security? Or do you just not care about being
vulnerable?

Greetings
Marc
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402

On Thu, 11 Oct 2024, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

> Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> wrote:
>> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>>> In comp.os.linux.misc Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:
>>>> But RedHat, and its lackey Poettering,
>>>
>>> You should note that the lackey Poettering is now employed by his
>>> original handler when he was employed by RedHat: Microsoft.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennart_Poettering
>>>
>>> Lennart Poettering (born 15 October 1980) is a German software
>>> engineer working for Microsoft ...
>>
>> Microsoft is putting an awful lot of money into Linux. I consider that
>> a good thing.
>
> I would prefer a free OS funded by lots of organisations putting a
> little money in, rather than relying on a few companies that invest
> a lot and whose individual opinions therefore matter. But beggers
> can't be choosers (although I can still choose old versions of
> Linux, like I'm using now, for some things).
>

Microsoft funding something they don't own, usually boils down to:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish .

On Fri, 11 Oct 2024 10:53:58 +0200, D wrote:

> Microsoft funding something they don't own, usually boils down to:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish .

In fairness Microsoft follows the same path for things they do own.
Silverlight anyone?

On Fri, 11 Oct 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Oct 2024 10:53:58 +0200, D wrote:
>
>> Microsoft funding something they don't own, usually boils down to:
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish .
>
> In fairness Microsoft follows the same path for things they do own.
> Silverlight anyone?
>

Touché!

Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> wrote:
> not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) wrote:
>>I would prefer a free OS funded by lots of organisations putting a
>>little money in, rather than relying on a few companies that invest
>>a lot and whose individual opinions therefore matter. But beggers
>>can't be choosers (although I can still choose old versions of
>>Linux, like I'm using now, for some things).
>
> So you're doing your own security? Or do you just not care about being
> vulnerable?

I run a firewall that blocks inbound connections from the internet,
and I don't run JS-supporting web browsers on them so no random JS
hacking about at old browser vulnerabilities. If you wanted to take
that approach for an internet server then "doing your own security"
would be a more meaningful commitment, although the CIP supported
kernels are a good starting point.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

On 10/11/2024 14:36, rbowman wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Oct 2024 10:53:58 +0200, D wrote:
>
>> Microsoft funding something they don't own, usually boils down to:
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish .
>
> In fairness Microsoft follows the same path for things they do own.
> Silverlight anyone?
>

I always looked at Silverlight as a temporary technology until HTML5 was
implemented. Microsoft did say that Silverlight was always a limited run
technology when people started asking about where Silverlight would fit
into the HTML5 era. So I don't think it was as much EEE as it was, just
something to keep people busy until HTML5.

--
Phillip Frabott
----------
- Adam: Is a void really a void if it returns?
- Jack: No, it's just nullspace at that point.
----------

On 10/11/2024 04:53, D wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, 11 Oct 2024, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>
>> Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> wrote:
>>> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>> In comp.os.linux.misc Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:
>>>>> But RedHat, and its lackey Poettering,
>>>>
>>>> You should note that the lackey Poettering is now employed by his
>>>> original handler when he was employed by RedHat: Microsoft.
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennart_Poettering
>>>>
>>>>   Lennart Poettering (born 15 October 1980) is a German software
>>>>   engineer working for Microsoft ...
>>>
>>> Microsoft is putting an awful lot of money into Linux. I consider that
>>> a good thing.
>>
>> I would prefer a free OS funded by lots of organisations putting a
>> little money in, rather than relying on a few companies that invest
>> a lot and whose individual opinions therefore matter. But beggers
>> can't be choosers (although I can still choose old versions of
>> Linux, like I'm using now, for some things).
>>
>
> Microsoft funding something they don't own, usually boils down to:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish .

I bothers me how many Linux users want these large corps money in the
game. It's dangerous in my opinion because these companies don't have
their users best interests at heart at all. And for Microsoft it's all
EEE anyways so Microsoft's Money in Linux is very bad news. (yes, pun
intended for those who got it).

--
Phillip Frabott
----------
- Adam: Is a void really a void if it returns?
- Jack: No, it's just nullspace at that point.
----------

On 10/10/2024 18:13, rbowman wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Oct 2024 16:10:04 -0400, Phillip Frabott wrote:
>
>
>>> Replacing Ballmer with Nadella seems to have had quite an impact. Often
>>> replacing a CEO is 'meet the new boss, same as the old boss'.
>>>
>>>
>> I'd disagree. I think Nadella is more like Gates then Ballmer. When was
>> the last time you saw Nadella run on the stage chanting and raving like
>> Ballmer did? :-P
>
> I think we agree but I phrased my remark badly. Nadella is like having an
> adult running the company. I'm impressed that he managed to turn the
> corporate culture around. Many times the 'new broom' has little effect.
>
> I don't know how much of that is from Nadella's personal background.
> Indian business leaders seem to have a more collaborative, longer term
> outlook than happens in the US. Ratan Tata was a good example.
>
> I'm skeptical about their AI efforts but at this point I think it's
> something they have to do to stay in the game. I do hope the ARM
> experiment works out better than the previous attempt.

You opened the door for the relatedness so I had to take it. But yes,
from a company corporate perspective I'd agree. But I don't trust
Microsoft at all regardless because to me it's all about stealing our
data and spying on us with what we do. And Nadella will do what makes
the company money. So if they have to screw over their customers to make
it so be it. "everyone" (using that loosely) uses Windows so they can do
a lot of things to their customers and get away with it because they
know their customers can't get away from Windows and Microsoft products.
So unfortunately the company's output itself hasn't changed much.

--
Phillip Frabott
----------
- Adam: Is a void really a void if it returns?
- Jack: No, it's just nullspace at that point.
----------