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BOFH excuse #236: Fanout dropping voltage too much, try cutting some of those little traces

comp / comp.os.linux.misc / Re: Desktop file "flies" away

Subject: Re: Desktop file "flies" away
From: 186282@ud0s4.net
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: wokiesux
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2024 02:41 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

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Subject: Re: Desktop file "flies" away
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
References: <vaggvv$ko6$1@reader1.panix.com> <vagsnr$2aci1$1@dont-email.me>
<vahkjm$2dnbp$1@dont-email.me> <slrnvcor39.1e1k0.wookie@aspen.localdomain>
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From: 186283@ud0s4.net (186282@ud0s4.net)
Organization: wokiesux
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2024 22:41:49 -0400
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On 8/31/24 4:10 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Aug 2024 02:16:14 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>
>> On 8/29/24 11:03 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 27 Aug 2024 21:21:09 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>
>>>> Indeed pure genius. GUI file-managers make this all
>>>> the easier. Cut tree, paste tree into the same dir.
>>>
>>> GUI or no GUI, the kernel won’t let you move a directory into itself.
>>
>> Yet SOMEHOW it gets done - seen it ... must be certain things
>> that fool the kernel's logic.
>
> Not a chance.

I did go on to describe how you can get /Desktop/Desktop/
via 'indirect' replication.

Easy.

Did it myself, just then, to see if it would work.

Subject: Re: Desktop file "flies" away
From: Lawrence D'Oliv
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2024 07:05 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ldo@nz.invalid (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Desktop file "flies" away
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2024 07:05:05 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On Sat, 31 Aug 2024 22:41:49 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> On 8/31/24 4:10 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Aug 2024 02:16:14 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/29/24 11:03 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 27 Aug 2024 21:21:09 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Indeed pure genius. GUI file-managers make this all the easier. Cut
>>>>> tree, paste tree into the same dir.
>>>>
>>>> GUI or no GUI, the kernel won’t let you move a directory into itself.
>>>
>>> Yet SOMEHOW it gets done - seen it ... must be certain things that
>>> fool the kernel's logic.
>>
>> Not a chance.
>
> I did go on to describe how you can get /Desktop/Desktop/
> via 'indirect' replication.

All you’ve done is create one directory called “Desktop” inside another
directory called “Desktop”.

Subject: Re: Desktop file "flies" away
From: 186282@ud0s4.net
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: wokiesux
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2024 21:54 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12

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Subject: Re: Desktop file "flies" away
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
References: <vaggvv$ko6$1@reader1.panix.com> <vagsnr$2aci1$1@dont-email.me>
<vahkjm$2dnbp$1@dont-email.me> <slrnvcor39.1e1k0.wookie@aspen.localdomain>
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From: 186283@ud0s4.net (186282@ud0s4.net)
Organization: wokiesux
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2024 17:54:28 -0400
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On 9/1/24 3:05 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sat, 31 Aug 2024 22:41:49 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>
>> On 8/31/24 4:10 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> On Fri, 30 Aug 2024 02:16:14 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/29/24 11:03 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 27 Aug 2024 21:21:09 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Indeed pure genius. GUI file-managers make this all the easier. Cut
>>>>>> tree, paste tree into the same dir.
>>>>>
>>>>> GUI or no GUI, the kernel won’t let you move a directory into itself.
>>>>
>>>> Yet SOMEHOW it gets done - seen it ... must be certain things that
>>>> fool the kernel's logic.
>>>
>>> Not a chance.
>>
>> I did go on to describe how you can get /Desktop/Desktop/
>> via 'indirect' replication.
>
> All you’ve done is create one directory called “Desktop” inside another
> directory called “Desktop”.

That was the original subject under discussion ...

Can't do it directly with 'cp', but can do it
indirectly.

Now, scarier, would be to tweak the inode entries
so that /Desktop and /Desktop/Desktop both point
to /Desktop ... which would have the effect of
a 'circular' reference. I think you can kinda fake
that with symlinks, but deliberately corrupting
the inode entries would be more, well, fun.

Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ldo@nz.invalid (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Desktop file "flies" away
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2024 23:41:09 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On Sun, 1 Sep 2024 17:54:28 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> On 9/1/24 3:05 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 31 Aug 2024 22:41:49 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/31/24 4:10 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 30 Aug 2024 02:16:14 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 8/29/24 11:03 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 27 Aug 2024 21:21:09 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Indeed pure genius. GUI file-managers make this all the easier.
>>>>>>> Cut tree, paste tree into the same dir.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> GUI or no GUI, the kernel won’t let you move a directory into
>>>>>> itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yet SOMEHOW it gets done - seen it ... must be certain things that
>>>>> fool the kernel's logic.
>>>>
>>>> Not a chance.
>>>
>>> I did go on to describe how you can get /Desktop/Desktop/
>>> via 'indirect' replication.
>>
>> All you’ve done is create one directory called “Desktop” inside another
>> directory called “Desktop”.
>
> That was the original subject under discussion ...

Which is not possible using standard kernel APIs, GUI tool or no GUI tool.

> Now, scarier, would be to tweak the inode entries so that /Desktop
> and /Desktop/Desktop both point to /Desktop

You’re not trying to suggest your user managed to do that, are you?

Subject: Re: Desktop file "flies" away
From: 186282@ud0s4.net
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Organization: wokiesux
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2024 02:22 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14

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Subject: Re: Desktop file "flies" away
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
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<vahkjm$2dnbp$1@dont-email.me> <slrnvcor39.1e1k0.wookie@aspen.localdomain>
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From: 186283@ud0s4.net (186282@ud0s4.net)
Organization: wokiesux
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2024 22:22:31 -0400
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e
On 9/1/24 7:41 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sun, 1 Sep 2024 17:54:28 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>
>> On 9/1/24 3:05 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 31 Aug 2024 22:41:49 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/31/24 4:10 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 30 Aug 2024 02:16:14 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 8/29/24 11:03 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, 27 Aug 2024 21:21:09 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Indeed pure genius. GUI file-managers make this all the easier.
>>>>>>>> Cut tree, paste tree into the same dir.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> GUI or no GUI, the kernel won’t let you move a directory into
>>>>>>> itself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yet SOMEHOW it gets done - seen it ... must be certain things that
>>>>>> fool the kernel's logic.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not a chance.
>>>>
>>>> I did go on to describe how you can get /Desktop/Desktop/
>>>> via 'indirect' replication.
>>>
>>> All you’ve done is create one directory called “Desktop” inside another
>>> directory called “Desktop”.
>>
>> That was the original subject under discussion ...
>
> Which is not possible using standard kernel APIs, GUI tool or no GUI tool.

As demonstrated, not DIRECTLY ... but INDIRECTLY.

>> Now, scarier, would be to tweak the inode entries so that /Desktop
>> and /Desktop/Desktop both point to /Desktop
>
> You’re not trying to suggest your user managed to do that, are you?

Not sure if it was a "user" per-se, or a rogue application.

Inodes CAN be corrupted - deliberately or perhaps by
screwing up lower-level file system stuff. That's not
how it is *supposed* to work, but, hey ..... I've seen
messed-up inodes from ill-timed crashes/power-downs.
fsck or friends start spitting out tons of messages.

Some rude 'C' run with just enough privs ... or bang
around with 'dd' just a bit ... some stuff uses
RAMdisks or whatever too so anything messing with
that space ........

Never be TOO surprised at really weird behavior from
any complex system .

Anyway, reporting what I saw. I know it CAN happen.
Consider that for the future. Alas I did not have
time to analyze in fine detail, had to get it all
up and running again quick to earn the paycheck.
I wonder how much other "that's weird" stuff goes
unreported for the same reason ?

Subject	Author
Desktop file "flies" away	vjp2.at
Re: Desktop file "flies" away	Bobbie Sellers
Re: Desktop file "flies" away	Rich
Re: Desktop file "flies" away	Harold Stevens
Re: Desktop file "flies" away	186282@ud0s4.net
Re: Desktop file "flies" away	The Natural Philosopher
Re: Desktop file "flies" away	186282@ud0s4.net
Re: Desktop file "flies" away	Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Re: Desktop file "flies" away	186282@ud0s4.net
Re: Desktop file "flies" away	Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Re: Desktop file "flies" away	186282@ud0s4.net
Re: Desktop file "flies" away	Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Re: Desktop file "flies" away	186282@ud0s4.net
Re: Desktop file "flies" away	Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Re: Desktop file "flies" away	186282@ud0s4.net
Re: Desktop file "flies" away	Jack Strangio
Re: Desktop file "flies" away	Charlie Gibbs
Re: Desktop file "flies" away	Nuno Silva
Re: Desktop file "flies" away	Rich
Re: Desktop file "flies" away	Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Re: Desktop file "flies" away	The Natural Philosopher
Re: Desktop file "flies" away	Joe Beanfish
Re: Desktop file "flies" away	Charlie Gibbs
Re: Desktop file "flies" away	Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Re: Desktop file "flies" away	candycanearter07
Re: Desktop file "flies" away	186282@ud0s4.net
Re: Desktop file "flies" away	candycanearter07
Re: Desktop file "flies" away	vjp2.at
Re: Desktop file "flies" away	Bobbie Sellers
Re: Desktop file "flies" away	186282@ud0s4.net