On 8/23/24 3:01 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Aug 2024 02:37:25 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>
>> On 8/23/24 2:01 AM, vallor wrote:
>>>
>>> On Fri, 23 Aug 2024 05:54:46 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
>>> <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <va9876$qcj0$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>
>>>> Actually, [Linux is] working great for gaming, as the Steam Deck
>>>> proves.
>>>
>>> Great strides have been made with proton -- I can play Starfield, Elite
>>> Dangerous Odyssey, Borderlands 3, and Tiny Tina's Wonderland.
>>>
>>> People who say you can't game on Linux haven't been keeping up with the
>>> times...
>>
>> Ummmm ... I'd say "benchmark" ....
>
> Let’s just say, the Steam Deck wipes the floor with the Windows-based
> competition.

It IS "better" in that respect.

However I'm a tad concerned about HOW it manages
that ... how 'compatible' it is now and in the
future. "Tricks" are not always for the better.
Extreme game orientation can mean serious deficits
for OTHER apps/intentions. More or less direct
access to the hardware, video buffers, can vastly
improve 'game' speed - but DO present a number
of security risks as well.

We've also seen WayLand ... which was supposed to
provide 'much more performance' than X. Alas it
is now clear it will NEVER be ready for prime time.
Good try, but .......

Anyhow, we shall see ... the next few years will be
very informative.

For now, I'm gonna say Steam for games - but X
for everything else.

On 8/23/24 6:46 AM, vallor wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Aug 2024 02:37:25 -0400, "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net>
> wrote in <OQ6dnRNhof67s1X7nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@earthlink.com>:
>
>> On 8/23/24 2:01 AM, vallor wrote:
>>> On Fri, 23 Aug 2024 05:54:46 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
>>> <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <va9876$qcj0$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 23 Aug 2024 01:41:21 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 8/22/24 10:23 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Windows, Apple OS X, even BeOS ... all got the idea that you must
>>>>>> tie the GUI inextricably into the OS kernel, possibly for
>>>>>> “efficiency”
>>>>>> reasons or to enforce common GUI standards or something.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Meanwhile the *nix folks blithely cruised on with their 1980s-based
>>>>>> keep- the-GUI-as-a-separate-modular-layer idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And guess what: that turned out to be a much more versatile and
>>>>>> future-
>>>>>> proof architecture.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes ... but not so great for "gaming" ...
>>>>
>>>> Actually, it’s working great for gaming, as the Steam Deck proves.
>>>
>>> Great strides have been made with proton -- I can play Starfield, Elite
>>> Dangerous Odyssey, Borderlands 3, and Tiny Tina's Wonderland.
>>>
>>> People who say you can't game on Linux haven't been keeping up with the
>>> times...
>>
>> Ummmm ... I'd say "benchmark" ....
>>
>> Some of the capabilities you tout have more to do with the sheer
>> speed of latter-day CPUs than the merits of the underlying OS.
>
> Some games are even faster on Linux than Windows, thanks
> to...
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DXVK
>
> The games run fine on Linux. Welcome to the 2020's. :)

Note my other response to this sub-thread.

The WAYS Steam yields performance MAY not
be so good for "security".

In truth, the olde-tyme DOS way of direct
hardware writes to the main/aux video bufs
was the best way to get max speed for games.
I've used that myself to good effect. However
it's not 'secure', and malicious entities
CAN take advantage.

So - Steam for games ... but X for the rest.
Rig up dual boot or something.

On Sat, 24 Aug 2024 00:43:29 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> Extreme game orientation can mean serious deficits for
> OTHER apps/intentions.

That’s OK. The Steam Deck is optimized for games. Other distros/
installations of Linux are optimized for other uses. Linux is that
flexible: using it for one purpose does not preclude using it for another.

On Sat, 24 Aug 2024 00:48:43 -0400, "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net>
wrote in <kEmdnWyA0cax-1T7nZ2dnZfqn_qdnZ2d@earthlink.com>:

> On 8/23/24 6:46 AM, vallor wrote:
>> On Fri, 23 Aug 2024 02:37:25 -0400, "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net>
>> wrote in <OQ6dnRNhof67s1X7nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@earthlink.com>:
>>
>>> On 8/23/24 2:01 AM, vallor wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 23 Aug 2024 05:54:46 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
>>>> <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <va9876$qcj0$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 23 Aug 2024 01:41:21 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 8/22/24 10:23 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Windows, Apple OS X, even BeOS ... all got the idea that you must
>>>>>>> tie the GUI inextricably into the OS kernel, possibly for
>>>>>>> “efficiency”
>>>>>>> reasons or to enforce common GUI standards or something.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Meanwhile the *nix folks blithely cruised on with their 1980s-based
>>>>>>> keep- the-GUI-as-a-separate-modular-layer idea.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And guess what: that turned out to be a much more versatile and
>>>>>>> future-
>>>>>>> proof architecture.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes ... but not so great for "gaming" ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, it’s working great for gaming, as the Steam Deck proves.
>>>>
>>>> Great strides have been made with proton -- I can play Starfield, Elite
>>>> Dangerous Odyssey, Borderlands 3, and Tiny Tina's Wonderland.
>>>>
>>>> People who say you can't game on Linux haven't been keeping up with the
>>>> times...
>>>
>>> Ummmm ... I'd say "benchmark" ....
>>>
>>> Some of the capabilities you tout have more to do with the sheer
>>> speed of latter-day CPUs than the merits of the underlying OS.
>>
>> Some games are even faster on Linux than Windows, thanks
>> to...
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DXVK
>>
>> The games run fine on Linux. Welcome to the 2020's. :)
>
> Note my other response to this sub-thread.
>
> The WAYS Steam yields performance MAY not
> be so good for "security".

This is FUD.

>
> In truth, the olde-tyme DOS way of direct
> hardware writes to the main/aux video bufs
> was the best way to get max speed for games.
> I've used that myself to good effect. However
> it's not 'secure', and malicious entities
> CAN take advantage.
>
> So - Steam for games ... but X for the rest.

This doesn't make any sense: the Steam client for Linux
is an X application.

> Rig up dual boot or something.

No; I don't have, or need, any MS Windows on my workstation.

--
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OS: Linux 6.11.0-rc4 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G
"If at first you don't succeed, you've failed failed again"